VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
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VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
The Independent have launched a petition to give us a second chance to vote on Brexit. 866, 787 (at the moment) and aiming for 1million by the weekend: https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp ... rexit-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Why.? We don't need another vote
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
What a waste of time organising a petition for another vote.
We have had the vote, given our decision and proved that there are no leaders of any political persuasion who are capable of ensuring that we leave the EU with a minimum of fuss.
Que sera sera.
We have had the vote, given our decision and proved that there are no leaders of any political persuasion who are capable of ensuring that we leave the EU with a minimum of fuss.
Que sera sera.
Last edited by Ashingtonclaret46 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Totally agree we should just scrap Brexit all together but as that is unlikely with this gutless treacherous government ive signed this petition 12 times with different aliasesconyoviejo wrote:Why.? We don't need another vote
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
If there is a second vote then I won't be voting and it'll be the last time I bother voting again probably. With our current system your vote is rendered pointless in certain areas anyway and if we don't bother to uphold the results of a vote anyway then what is the point?
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Whatever your views on Brexit and a second referendum it's a pretty meaningless petition, even if it gets to 1 million. Now if it got to 20 million that might be a different matter.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
"The Independent " . The most ironic Newspaper title ever ?
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
How many Aliases did you use to vote in the last ElectionDevils_Advocate wrote:Totally agree we should just scrap Brexit all together but as that is unlikely with this gutless treacherous government ive signed this petition 12 times with different aliases
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I was told by a local campaigner that if you want your voice heard you all have to report things to the authorities individually, as a petition is only counted as one person no matter how many sign.
Strange but when was the last petition that made a difference?
Strange but when was the last petition that made a difference?
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Now they would be treacherous if they allowed a 2nd vote!Devils_Advocate wrote:Totally agree we should just scrap Brexit all together but as that is unlikely with this gutless treacherous government ive signed this petition 12 times with different aliases
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
And if I don’t like the outcome of that second vote, can I have another?
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
When it gets to 17.4 million let me know.LoveCurryPies wrote:The Independent have launched a petition to give us a second chance to vote on Brexit. 866, 787 (at the moment) and aiming for 1million by the weekend: https://www.change.org/p/theresa-may-mp ... rexit-deal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Caballo on Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
What nonsense. Best of 3?
Remainers are just as ill informed as Leave voters, there was no conspiracy (apart from the one now to keep us in), no reason to have another.
The Irish border thing is one red herring just for political purposes. If the EU can have a totally open border (on Sundays) in the middle of the Amazon jungle (which they do, in French Guiana which is officially part of France and the EU), Ireland, with two sides who have equivalent standards, should not be a concern.
Remainers are just as ill informed as Leave voters, there was no conspiracy (apart from the one now to keep us in), no reason to have another.
The Irish border thing is one red herring just for political purposes. If the EU can have a totally open border (on Sundays) in the middle of the Amazon jungle (which they do, in French Guiana which is officially part of France and the EU), Ireland, with two sides who have equivalent standards, should not be a concern.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Has anybody ever started a petition to stop petitions? That would be good.
As per a couple of comments already made - this petition needs c 20 million signatures to carry any weight at all (and that's assuming only a modicum of cheating by people not eligible to vote signing + multiple signings).
As per a couple of comments already made - this petition needs c 20 million signatures to carry any weight at all (and that's assuming only a modicum of cheating by people not eligible to vote signing + multiple signings).
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Cool, another Brexit thread
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
https://www.ft.com/content/cf49c956-c35 ... 197280d3f7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
John Major calls for second ‘fact not fantasy’ Brexit vote
"no form of Brexit will remotely match up to the promises made by the leave campaign in the referendum: they were vote-gathering fantasies, not serious politics."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... john-major" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
John Major calls for second ‘fact not fantasy’ Brexit vote
"no form of Brexit will remotely match up to the promises made by the leave campaign in the referendum: they were vote-gathering fantasies, not serious politics."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... john-major" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I'm gonna wait for the vote about the vote for whether we need another vote...
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Why not? Leave voters keep telling us how good referendums are. Or they were when they wanted one, but now that we want one suddenly they're undemocratic and treasonous, or something.conyoviejo wrote:Why.? We don't need another vote
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
If the results are never implemented then what is the point?Imploding Turtle wrote:Why not? Leave voters keep telling us how good referendums are. Or they were when they wanted one, but now that we want one suddenly they're undemocratic and treasonous, or something.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Certainty. The government asked us two years ago and we responded with a resounding "um, well, we don't really know. Leave, i guess."Damo wrote:If the results are never implemented then what is the point?
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
So there's no point in referendums then?Imploding Turtle wrote:Certainty. The government asked us two years ago and we responded with a resounding "um, well, we don't really know. Leave, i guess."
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I found it amusing today to see that the Brexit organ the Daily Express devoted it's front page to the People's Vote march in London on Saturday.
Almost admitting that they are getting a touch nervous about developments.
Almost admitting that they are getting a touch nervous about developments.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Only if you're certain that the public hasn't either a) changed it's mind, or b) wants the deal that's available.Damo wrote:So there's no point in referendums then?
And you have no idea of either.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
No concrete evidence swathes of leavers have changed they minds, I’d argue some are even more determined to see this through than before which flies in the face of a change of heart remainers are desperate to pitch. If we are dealing with indecisive people (don’t think we are) where is the certainty the mind won’t be changed again once it all gets decided or redecided or reredecided, quite a humourous concept & a warped take on democracy, remainers in a nutshell.
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
There was nothing about any deal stipulated in the referendum. And how can people change their mind when the process has not been completed yet?Imploding Turtle wrote:Only if you're certain that the public hasn't either a) changed it's mind, or b) wants the deal that's available.
And you have no idea of either.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Do you think that people can only change their mind after a mistake has been made?Damo wrote:There was nothing about any deal stipulated in the referendum. And how can people change their mind when the process has not been completed yet?
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Yes they can. That's fine. But there was a referendum that gave two choices. Leave or remain.Imploding Turtle wrote:Do you think that people can only change their mind after a mistake has been made?
People voted to leave and that process hasn't been completed yet. So to reject people's descision would mean that rerendums, or any vote really is pointless.
In any case, you rarely see anyone calling for a second vote because they are silly enough to vote for something they didn't want.
The people calling for a second vote are the people who didn't get the result they wanted in the first place.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Or are people who are genuinely concerned that this shower of **** posing as our government, our negotiating team, have no idea what's happening even now.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
The longer this goes on as it is doing, with every day another downside to leaving taking the headlines - mainly on the BBC - the more convinced I am that it's not happening.
If there ends up being a second vote, I will vote the same way again, because I am even more determined now that we leave.
That will be the last vote I ever cast.
If there ends up being a second vote, I will vote the same way again, because I am even more determined now that we leave.
That will be the last vote I ever cast.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Anyone for rock, paper, scissors?
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I don't understand how anyone can be certain we should leave or stay.
Both sides seem to have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or what is likely to happen.
I think a second vote ,whether as a referendum or as an election, needs to happen if and when there is some clarity.
The whole thing has been a farce so far.
Both sides seem to have absolutely no idea what they are talking about or what is likely to happen.
I think a second vote ,whether as a referendum or as an election, needs to happen if and when there is some clarity.
The whole thing has been a farce so far.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Its funny because cynically, the people who want this "peoples vote" want us to choose from;
A.) this incredibly unpopular chequers deal that nobody wants
B.) Remain
They know nobody wants Mays deal, so they are trying to rig the game so that we remain in the EU.
Truth be told, this may actually have been the plan all along from the tories.
A.) this incredibly unpopular chequers deal that nobody wants
B.) Remain
They know nobody wants Mays deal, so they are trying to rig the game so that we remain in the EU.
Truth be told, this may actually have been the plan all along from the tories.
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Its like any divorce. You only know if its good after the event.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
True to certain degree, but you can also have a fair idea of the outlook if you think of what led to this relationship breakdown to finally conclude this divorce.FCBurnley wrote:Its like any divorce. You only know if its good after the event.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
If the participation rate is considerably lower than the first vote which it is absolutely guaranteed to be due to the apathy this as created towards our politicians on both sides of the debate, how then can any result of a second vote be considered more credible?
Potentially we are going to ignore the result of 33 million people voting and act on the result of say 20 million people voting. If Democracy was ever proven to be ******* pointless this would well and truly be it.
Potentially we are going to ignore the result of 33 million people voting and act on the result of say 20 million people voting. If Democracy was ever proven to be ******* pointless this would well and truly be it.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Best of three?box_of_frogs wrote:Anyone for rock, paper, scissors?
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Considering only Leave were telling porkies, I'm wondering if the emergency budget will happen before or after WW3 kicks off. More importantly will it happen straight away or will I get a night's kip on the 29th?
Just checking.
Just checking.
Last edited by Darthlaw on Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I disagree with this. We have a duty to send a message, however we choose to do so. Initially, I voted for Brexit, it doesn’t benefit me (I work at times in the EU and am there today) but I thought it the right thing to do. If this is overturned, people need teaching a big lesson. I will thus vote to be as disruptive as possible - Corbyn initially. When basic rate income tax goes up to 35% people can decide if they were right to overturn a democratic vote. The best way to get an educated electorate in a generations time.bobinho wrote:The longer this goes on as it is doing, with every day another downside to leaving taking the headlines - mainly on the BBC - the more convinced I am that it's not happening.
If there ends up being a second vote, I will vote the same way again, because I am even more determined now that we leave.
That will be the last vote I ever cast.
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
It amazes me how many people seem to want Brexit to happen for no other reason than ‘it’s what we’ve voted for, it must happen whatever’. Even in the face of the mounting evidence that this isn’t going to end well there’s a determination to drive the U.K. bus over the edge of a cliff because it seemed a good idea two years ago.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
I can’t see the problem with the Irish border; the EU want a soft border, both lots of Irish want a soft border and we do too. Just leave it as it is. Only in the EU can 3 sides argue about something they all agree on. Or.....could it be just a ruse to keep us in longer, which gives them more time to push for another referendum. Surely not, that would be too obvious and very crass.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
It’s what we voted and it must happen whatever, it’s called democracy. Also, what mounting evidence? The more I hear, the better it appears we will do when we are off the USE express.martin_p wrote:It amazes me how many people seem to want Brexit to happen for no other reason than ‘it’s what we’ve voted for, it must happen whatever’. Even in the face of the mounting evidence that this isn’t going to end well there’s a determination to drive the U.K. bus over the edge of a cliff because it seemed a good idea two years ago.
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
If we crash out with no deal it’s called stupidity!BennyD wrote:It’s what we voted and it must happen whatever, it’s called democracy.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Damo wrote:Yes they can. That's fine. But there was a referendum that gave two choices. Leave or remain.
People voted to leave and that process hasn't been completed yet. So to reject people's descision would mean that rerendums, or any vote really is pointless.
In any case, you rarely see anyone calling for a second vote because they are silly enough to vote for something they didn't want.
The people calling for a second vote are the people who didn't get the result they wanted in the first place.
It gave two choices but the reality is that there weren't two possibilities. As has been said ad nauseam, but i'll repeat it for you, no one knew what Leave meant. No one. Not even the Leave campaigns had a clue. So how can you possibly know that if Leaving meant leaving with no deal that that referendum result would still have been a win for Leave? I think there are a lot of Leave voters who if they knew that Leaving the EU meant leaving without a deal then they wouldn't have voted to Leave in the first place, and we should find that out. Why shouldn't we? The leave campaigns all campaigned on the idea that there'd be some kind fo deal that mitigates the disaster of leaving.
I've asked this a bunch of times and i still await a worthwhile answer (just "but mah will of the peepul"), but why shouldn't we double check with the public that the Leave deal/no deal is really what we want right before we do it? This is supposed to be about honouring the will of the people so what possible harm can it do to check with us that it's really what we want right before we cut off our own nuts?
If the public still want to leave then we'll say so, and the next day we withdraw, job done. And if we don't want to leave then i'm sure you'll agree that it's a good job we double checked, right? Because "will of the people".
I'm convinced that the only reason Leave voters are opposed to the referendum is that they're really worried that what they want is no longer what the public wants, and so they're trying to get it done against the will of the public. I can't think of many things more undemocratic than that.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
BennyD wrote:It’s what we voted and it must happen whatever, it’s called democracy. ...
Even if its not what the public want any more? That's not democracy.
Edit: oh, i forgot for a moment that you blocked me because i research my arguments.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Imploding Turtle wrote:It gave two choices but the reality is that there weren't two possibilities. As has been said ad nauseam, but i'll repeat it for you, no one knew what Leave meant. No one. Not even the Leave campaigns had a clue. So how can you possibly know that if Leaving meant leaving with no deal that that referendum result would still have been a win for Leave? I think there are a lot of Leave voters who if they knew that Leaving the EU meant leaving without a deal then they wouldn't have voted to Leave in the first place, and we should find that out. Why shouldn't we? The leave campaigns all campaigned on the idea that there'd be some kind fo deal that mitigates the disaster of leaving.
I've asked this a bunch of times and i still await a worthwhile answer (just "but mah will of the peepul"), but why shouldn't we double check with the public that the Leave deal/no deal is really what we want right before we do it? This is supposed to be about honouring the will of the people so what possible harm can it do to check with us that it's really what we want right before we cut off our own nuts?
If the public still want to leave then we'll say so, and the next day we withdraw, job done. And if we don't want to leave then i'm sure you'll agree that it's a good job we double checked, right? Because "will of the people".
I'm convinced that the only reason Leave voters are opposed to the referendum is that they're really worried that what they want is no longer what the public wants, and so they're trying to get it done against the will of the public. I can't think of many things more undemocratic than that.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Do some people really believe that we can have another referendum, vote stay this time and go back to where we were?
A bit like being in the middle of heated/acrimonious divorce proceedings, both parties run out of money to pay the lawyers - so decide they may as well stay together in a lovey-dovey relationship. No bleedin' chance.
A bit like being in the middle of heated/acrimonious divorce proceedings, both parties run out of money to pay the lawyers - so decide they may as well stay together in a lovey-dovey relationship. No bleedin' chance.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
Aye cause the complexities of economical and political strategies are exactly the same as a divorce.LeadBelly wrote:Do some people really believe that we can have another referendum, vote stay this time and go back to where we were?
A bit like being in the middle of heated/acrimonious divorce proceedings, both parties run out of money to pay the lawyers - so decide they may as well stay together in a lovey-dovey relationship. No bleedin' chance.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
"Like" doesnt mean "exactly same as".
Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
The overly simplistic analogy is another key weapon of the Brexiteer.ClaretAndJew wrote:Aye cause the complexities of economical and political strategies are exactly the same as a divorce.
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Re: VOTE for a second Brexit vote...
The only vote that's needed at present is the one to get rid of the absolutely useless TM...