January transfer window

RingoMcCartney · Post by **RingoMcCartney** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:05 pm

Whats Ronnie Jepson upto these days?

Sure he could do a job for us.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:16 pm

Papabendi wrote:top level strikers help create as well as score - that's the difference.

We have two woefully out of form (Barnes and Wood) and one who if we are being honest isn't quite good enough for week in week out (Vokes). Plus another in Vydra who looks like being the next tampax Mumby.

Think you are being a bit harsh on all our strikers there Papabendi. Go and take a look a their goals per game ratios over the last 2 and a bit seasons at this level, and compare them to our competitors' strikers.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:50 pm

Unless we are going to play to Wood's strengths we may as well ship him out on loan because at the moment he is offering the square root of f all.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:51 pm

claretspice wrote:Certainly a good stop gap option and if he's fit, I'd be tempted to put Gibson there on Sunday instead of Taylor (who I think has had a tough few weeks). But Gibson is really a centre back and whilst he started at left back and can undoubtedly do a job there, I'm sure he ultimately sees himself as a centre back. Taylor doesn't convince me at all defensively, and he's not yet shown he has the athleticism to compensate for that with attacking impetus.

I personally think Mee will play LB before Gibson does. Either way, it's a square peg in a round hole....but both would perhaps offer more solidity (for now).

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:53 pm

Doubt Dyche will budge Taylor but he's not convincing and looks the weak link in defence.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:45 pm

Blackrod wrote:Doubt Dyche will budge Taylor but he's not convincing and looks the weak link in defence.

He’s the least experienced member of our defence....give him time to develop and improve will you.

Also getting Brady in front of him will offer him more support and mean that he can perhaps do a better job safe in the knowledge that he has a player to link with who’s capable of covering him if/as/when he goes forward.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:36 pm

I'm not at all convinced by the idea Brady is much better defensively than Lennon or JBG when they're on the left flank, if I'm honest, nor that a lack of cover is Taylor's primary problem.

He's young (ish) and he's still adapting, and there's absolutely no problem with that, but I'm a bit worried that he's a bit short of the required standard at the minute, and I think his confidence may have got knocked - his crossing has always been his strongest suit, but he's snatched at his opportunities to get good balls in during the last 2 games.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:37 pm

Jakubs Tash wrote:I personally think Mee will play LB before Gibson does. Either way, it's a square peg in a round hole....but both would perhaps offer more solidity (for now).

I don't agree, simply because Mee is the more senior player and is the captain and organiser of the back 4. It doesn't make sense for him to be at left back.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:44 pm

Ric_C wrote:Although a pacy winger would be nice, I'm wondering whether this type of player fits into our system?

I don't think it's any coincidence that our "framework" has looked shoddy this season, and I think the main reason for that is Aaron Lennon. I just don't think he is very good at covering his position. I think if we'd played most of the season with Brady or (dare I say it) Arfield, then we would have been a lot more solid and shipped less goals.

I think this was SD's reason for pursuing Clucas, so he could play the Arfield role. Lennon is good as an option off the bench for the last 30 when we need to stretch the game, but nothing more.

I would ideally like us to pursue a wide player who is a good technician, and can understand the role that is needed. An upgrade on Arfield if you will.

Players like Snodgrass, Clucas, Ward Prowse etc or someone left field from abroad.

Also we need a new long term left back and a strong centre mid if possible.

The striker situation is a strange one, if we get a new striker, then we would have to probably lose one of our 4 strikers, but these type of players don't exactly grow on trees, maybe we'll go back in for Jay Rod?

I think in fairness you have probably nailed it!

BUT Dyche can (and needs to for himself) evolve.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:49 pm

Desperately short of someone like Barton in midfield. You can have all the 'passers' you want in there but they need the ball to do it. He could play a bit too but knew when he had to bring out 'the dark side'. As aggressive a midfielder as I've seen playing for us and the type of player that kept spirits up as well as letting the opposition know we weren't a soft touch as I believe we are presently.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:57 pm

Blackrod wrote:Unless we are going to play to Wood's strengths we may as well ship him out on loan because at the moment he is offering the square root of f all.

Wood's strengths are what exactly...?

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:59 pm

Obviously not an option for us, but I’ve been really impressed with Guendouzi at Arsenal, whenever I’ve seen him this season.

Great with the ball, great at winning it back, great range of passing and more than willing to drive forward with the ball. He looks an absolute snip and if he keeps developing will be some player.

Someone in that mould would be perfect!

Down_Rover · Post by **Down_Rover** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:05 pm

Left back is the only essential.

A technical left sided midfield would be nice maybe Ward Prowse, but you have to ask why he has only played 97 mins

A goal scoring striker would be fantastic but they don’t grow on trees and there are other teams much worse off than us in that department. Proves how difficult it is

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:16 pm

claretspice wrote:I'm not at all convinced by the idea Brady is much better defensively than Lennon or JBG when they're on the left flank, if I'm honest, nor that a lack of cover is Taylor's primary problem. .

.

Hasn't Brady played at left-back in the past?
JBG isn't bad defensively, but I don't think Lennon is too good at it, nor should he be since he is a right-winger!

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:24 pm

As harsh as this may sound if we are to evolve as footballing side then I doubt there is a place for Mee. His passing is shocking at times and because of this it restricts how we set up. The full backs knowing they cant push on too much for fear of being undermanned at the back as a bad pass can happen at any time. This also restricts the positioning of our wingers as they like to stay tight with the full backs incase they need to push back to create our famed back 6.

summitclaret · Post by **summitclaret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:38 pm

I am getting more convinced that we need to line up something like this.

Any england keeper

Tarks. Mee. Gibson

Jbg. Defour. Cork. Hendrick. Brady

Vydra. Barnes/vokes/wood

That would get our best 11 players on the pitch at once and give us 2 strikers and crucially 3 in cm. It also means that mee never needs to make a long pass and frees up one of our best passers ( tarks ) to do just that.

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:41 pm

I would like two pacey comfortables with the ball full backs both left and right and both need to be first team player ready.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:57 pm

ClaretAL wrote:May be Gibbson will step up to this plate.

Thats just going full Pulis mode! Just need Kev Long at right back!

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:00 pm

Woodleyclaret wrote:A new improved Joey Barton type.Our gutless lack of challenge v City shows we need a ball winning cm

Absolutely agree. We've needed an enforcer for a good while. But who?

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:01 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:Desperately short of someone like Barton in midfield. You can have all the 'passers' you want in there but they need the ball to do it. He could play a bit too but knew when he had to bring out 'the dark side'. As aggressive a midfielder as I've seen playing for us and the type of player that kept spirits up as well as letting the opposition know we weren't a soft touch as I believe we are presently.

Spot on

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:02 pm

DCWat wrote:Obviously not an option for us, but I’ve been really impressed with Guendouzi at Arsenal, whenever I’ve seen him this season.

Great with the ball, great at winning it back, great range of passing and more than willing to drive forward with the ball. He looks an absolute snip and if he keeps developing will be some player.

Someone in that mould would be perfect!

Any idea on his character?

Plus he must have been about 84m if he came from abroad... oh no! he was 7m!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:03 pm

claretspice wrote:
Vokes, Barnes and Wood all have perfectly respectable goalscoring records at this level.

Do they ?
I think Vokes and Barnes considering they both cost half a million each have respectable records given what we paid for them. But goals to game ratio for both I doubt is that great.

Chris Wood is about 1 in 4 goals to appearances in think - could not tell you whether that’s respectable or not compared to other £15m strikers.

At our level if we are going to push on as a club I think we need a striker who is going to score between 12 and 15 goals a year. Last year was a freak year for our defence which would be very difficult to repeat so we do probably need to score more goals to sustain our place in the league - and I am not sure any of our current strikers could score between 12 and 15 a season. Or alternative 2 of our strikers scoring 10 or 11 goals each.

I know i’m stating the bleeding obvious here about scoring more goals !!

But I do think we need a new striker and it’s going to costs us a minimum £20m to find one

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:04 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:As harsh as this may sound if we are to evolve as footballing side then I doubt there is a place for Mee. His passing is shocking at times and because of this it restricts how we set up. The full backs knowing they cant push on too much for fear of being undermanned at the back as a bad pass can happen at any time. This also restricts the positioning of our wingers as they like to stay tight with the full backs incase they need to push back to create our famed back 6.

Very fair point. I suspect that Gibson is a better footballer. And was probably brought in to offer that - especially as Mee was stalling on his contract. Gibson then getting banned and injured and Mee signing has probably messed those plans up for now.

Mee is a solid defender which is of course his main job. But Gibson looks more cultured (like Keane and even Tarks) and better on the ball.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Scott Arfield. We would certainly have more fight and concede fewer goals. And a rough tough CM.

BurnleyPaul · Post by **BurnleyPaul** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:07 pm

Stayingup wrote:Absolutely agree. We've needed an enforcer for a good while. But who?

Aron Gunnarsson- Cardiff

As far as I’m aware his contract expires this coming summer so unless he signs an extension he should be reasonably cheap in January.

He knows JBG from the international team, he can play centre midfield or as a defensive centre midfielder. The only issue is his injury record but it looks like that’s behind him now.

He’s certainly no worse than what we currently have.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:10 pm

BurnleyPaul wrote:Aron Gunnarsson- Cardiff

As far as I’m aware his contract expires this coming summer so unless he signs an extension he should be reasonably cheap in January.

He knows JBG from the international team, he can play centre midfield or as a defensive centre midfielder. The only issue is his injury record but it looks like that’s behind him now.

He’s certainly no worse than what we currently have.

Excellent shout. Another soon to be 30 workhorse!

watsonsclarets · Post by **watsonsclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:13 pm

Christian Gunter Left Back -SC Friburg

will cost a bit but would be ideal at left back

gtclaret · Post by **gtclaret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:14 pm

The same problem as the summer, the transfer and wage budget will not be high enough to compete and bring in the required quality

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:19 pm

Only a matter of time before it's Gibson and Tarks as the central pairing. Man City were rumoured to be mulling over going for Gibson last year. I think that speaks volumes.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:30 pm

TVC15 wrote:Do they ?
I think Vokes and Barnes considering they both cost half a million each have respectable records given what we paid for them. But goals to game ratio for both I doubt is that great.

Chris Wood is about 1 in 4 goals to appearances in think - could not tell you whether that’s respectable or not compared to other £15m strikers.

At our level if we are going to push on as a club I think we need a striker who is going to score between 12 and 15 goals a year. Last year was a freak year for our defence which would be very difficult to repeat so we do probably need to score more goals to sustain our place in the league - and I am not sure any of our current strikers could score between 12 and 15 a season. Or alternative 2 of our strikers scoring 10 or 11 goals each.

I know i’m stating the bleeding obvious here about scoring more goals !!

But I do think we need a new striker and it’s going to costs us a minimum £20m to find one

Is it a striker we need or just better supply? Our chances converted ratio is reasonably good but we just don’t create enough quality chances.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:33 pm

kaptin1 wrote:Is it a striker we need or just better supply? Our chances converted ratio is reasonably good but we just don’t create enough quality chances.

Probably a bit of both but none of the 3 strikers have been that prolific in this league playing with a number of different wide men / midfielders.
A fit Defour and Brady and in form JBG for a sustained amount of time would (or should) I agree lead to more goals for our strikers

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:39 pm

claretspice wrote:I don't agree, simply because Mee is the more senior player and is the captain and organiser of the back 4. It doesn't make sense for him to be at left back.

Fair enough. I based my opinion on Mee previously playing more football at left back than Gibson and Gibson being a strong leader of a centre half himself. Can't have too many leaders....

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:07 pm

The pronlem with getting a 15-20 goals a season striker is is that they will only be with us one season before being moved. Then we have to start looking again. Our team and SD arent for swapping and changing all the time

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:23 pm

TVC15 wrote:Do they ?
I think Vokes and Barnes considering they both cost half a million each have respectable records given what we paid for them. But goals to game ratio for both I doubt is that great.

Chris Wood is about 1 in 4 goals to appearances in think - could not tell you whether that’s respectable or not compared to other £15m strikers.

At our level if we are going to push on as a club I think we need a striker who is going to score between 12 and 15 goals a year. Last year was a freak year for our defence which would be very difficult to repeat so we do probably need to score more goals to sustain our place in the league - and I am not sure any of our current strikers could score between 12 and 15 a season. Or alternative 2 of our strikers scoring 10 or 11 goals each.

I know i’m stating the bleeding obvious here about scoring more goals !!

But I do think we need a new striker and it’s going to costs us a minimum £20m to find one

Go and look at their minutes to goals ratio since we last came up and I suspect you'll be surprised. I've just cheked Barnes' stats and it works out to 17 goals in 46 games since promotion (4,100 minutes), which is significantly better than 1 in 3. Meanwhile Wood hit double figures in the league last season, and Vokes did the year before, and so I'm fairly confident their goals to 90 minutes ratios will be better. Their records tend to be disguised by the fact they all start a few games, and come off the bench in a few.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:36 pm

claretspice wrote:Go and look at their minutes to goals ratio since we last came up and I suspect you'll be surprised. I've just cheked Barnes' stats and it works out to 17 goals in 46 games since promotion (4,100 minutes), which is significantly better than 1 in 3. Meanwhile Wood hit double figures in the league last season, and Vokes did the year before, and so I'm fairly confident their goals to 90 minutes ratios will be better. Their records tend to be disguised by the fact they all start a few games, and come off the bench in a few.

is 1 in 2.7 really significantly better than 1 in 3?

Dont get me wrong. Barnes and Vokes have both achieved way ,ore than we ever expected from them. And both have decent enough records at this level. But we still need someone a bit more dynamic.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:40 pm

TVC15 wrote:At our level if we are going to push on as a club I think we need a striker who is going to score between 12 and 15 goals a year.

Virtually impossible to find a striker getting 15 goals outside of the top six.

As has been pointed out before, outside of the top sides only Glenn Murray & Vardy got more than ten, apart from our players.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:41 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:is 1 in 2.7 really significantly better than 1 in 4?

Dont get me wrong. Barnes and Vokes have both achieved way ,ore than we ever expected from them. And both have decent enough records at this level. But we still need someone a bit more dynamic.

Yes, it is. It's an excellent goalscoring record. It translates to 15 league goals in a season over 38 games. To put that in context, only 7 players managed that in the league last season.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:07 pm

claretspice wrote:Yes, it is. It's an excellent goalscoring record. It translates to 15 league goals in a season over 38 games. To put that in context, only 7 players managed that in the league last season.

I meant 1 in 3 obviously.

1 in 2.7 isnt SIGNIFICANTLY better than 1 in 3.

That said I dont disagree its a reasonable return. And it proves that the issue isnt putting them away. It rarely has been. Its creating them. Consistently.

Vydra is looking a strange buy too. Not because he doesnt look good. But because we dont seem to have much faith in him. Now the end of october and he started 2 games.

To be in October and only have one new outfield player having started games, and that only being 2 games shows how poor our last window was.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:18 pm

claretspice wrote:Go and look at their minutes to goals ratio since we last came up and I suspect you'll be surprised. I've just cheked Barnes' stats and it works out to 17 goals in 46 games since promotion (4,100 minutes), which is significantly better than 1 in 3. Meanwhile Wood hit double figures in the league last season, and Vokes did the year before, and so I'm fairly confident their goals to 90 minutes ratios will be better. Their records tend to be disguised by the fact they all start a few games, and come off the bench in a few.

Tbh I am not sure of the value of looking at the ratio in the way you have. That’s not usually his goalscorers are judged - it’s goals per game.
I know a player cannot score whilst he is off the pitch - but the reason they are off the pitch is usually because they are not good enough to start (or finish).

Even using your ratios - it’s hard to compare whether this is good or not compared to other strikers given none of the others are judged using this analysis either.

At its simplest level we have not scored many goals in the Premier League so it’s hardly surprising our strikers are not going to have great goal to game ratios. And I know we are not alone in that as a team.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:19 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I meant 1 in 3 obviously.

1 in 2.7 isnt SIGNIFICANTLY better than 1 in 3.

That said I dont disagree its a reasonable return. And it proves that the issue isnt putting them away. It rarely has been. Its creating them. Consistently.

Vydra is looking a strange buy too. Not because he doesnt look good. But because we dont seem to have much faith in him. Now the end of october and he started 2 games.

To be in October and only have one new outfield player having started games, and that only being 2 games shows how poor our last window was.

He was coming back from injury. He didnt start vs City for obvious reasons in our set up. Huddersfield is the only game I thought he may have started - thats it.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:21 pm

Spijed wrote:Virtually impossible to find a striker getting 15 goals outside of the top six.

As has been pointed out before, outside of the top sides only Glenn Murray & Vardy got more than ten, apart from our players.

I said “12 to 15”.
Finding a striker who can score 12 goals a season (year after year) would be great for Burnley but probably not good enough for the big clubs to come knocking.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:32 pm

FactualFrank wrote:He was coming back from injury. He didnt start vs City for obvious reasons in our set up. Huddersfield is the only game I thought he may have started - thats it.

Poor signing. Not because he isnt a good player. But as above. Cause we wont start him.

Put it this way. Had it been Ings, or Rodriguez would they be on the bench for that game?

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:32 pm

I tend to agree with Brady in front Taylor might find life at LB easier. Would be reluctant to push Gibson out wide he surely came here as a longer term replacement CB. Mee lacks the passing quality to play there. George Friend's name keeps cropping up but he's 31 now so he's not a long-term solution. We were supposedly linked with Joe Bryan before he signed for Fulham - where he's hardly got a game in competition with Sessegnon.

I'd agree there's been no direct replacement for Barton and to a lesser extent Arfield - which is why we pursued Clucas. Sam Morsy seems to be doing well at Wigan who are probably performing a bit better than expected at that level. He has a lot of those characteristics, should fit the framework, would fit the budget.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:41 pm

Nick Powell might be worth looking at.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:47 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Poor signing. Not because he isnt a good player. But as above. Cause we wont start him.

Put it this way. Had it been Ings, or Rodriguez would they be on the bench for that game?

Way too early to say it's a poor signing, that's for certain sure.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:59 pm

TVC15 wrote:Tbh I am not sure of the value of looking at the ratio in the way you have. That’s not usually his goalscorers are judged - it’s goals per game.
I know a player cannot score whilst he is off the pitch - but the reason they are off the pitch is usually because they are not good enough to start (or finish).

Even using your ratios - it’s hard to compare whether this is good or not compared to other strikers given none of the others are judged using this analysis either.

At its simplest level we have not scored many goals in the Premier League so it’s hardly surprising our strikers are not going to have great goal to game ratios. And I know we are not alone in that as a team.

You can do the analysis if you want. Its all on whoscored.com. Fact is theyre excellent stats and reflects the fact we've got a seriously underrated bunch of strikers.

Our problem, consistently, hasn't been goals from our strikers. Its been goals from elsewhere in the team.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:07 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:We were supposedly linked with Joe Bryan before he signed for Fulham - where he's hardly got a game in competition with Sessegnon.

Sessegnon doesn't play left back or left wing back for Fulham. He plays as a winger or left side of a front three.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:20 pm

FactualFrank wrote:Way too early to say it's a poor signing, that's for certain sure.

Looking more like the wells signing every week.

Barely featuring. Signed him injured. From the championship. Unproven at this level. Doesnt look like a Dyche striker.

I like him. Looks tricky, quick and direct. What we need. But its looking puzzling.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:37 pm

Wasn't convinced at the time that we actually wanted Vydra. Seemed like a panic signing once we realised we weren't going to get Jay Rod. Signing strikers has certainly been a problem for Dyche, hopefully our new director of football will be able to help him out a bit with it.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:52 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Wasn't convinced at the time that we actually wanted Vydra. Seemed like a panic signing once we realised we weren't going to get Jay Rod. Signing strikers has certainly been a problem for Dyche, hopefully our new director of football will be able to help him out a bit with it.

At the time he was the Hendrick replacement everyone was a calling for now he's the JayRod alternative no one wanted?

Makes sense you have a list of positions and options where to upgrade, no JayRod? ok lets look at the No10 position. I still want to see more of him playing in behind who Vokes/Wood etc.