I miss intelligent rap

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:02 am

Remember when rappers were erudite and had a way with words, not falling off planes or od on some ridiculous opiate mix?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... J-AiKsOSEA

Full of idiots with faces like the desk i had in 3rd year

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:33 am

The current cultural mandate is enfranchising absolute pillocks, to get social minorities to intimidate the rest as a stance of political mob rule. The current Addidas ad on youtube is an incomprehensible garble with LONDON written on it. It's media war, trying to create anarchy in the UK.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:24 pm

Look what you've done now Prague Correspondent, tut.

Foshiznik · Post by **Foshiznik** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:34 pm

I blame the tide pods.

Real rap still exists today. It's just harder to find under all the face tattoo, xanax stoned, rainbow dread, manufactured rubbish the industry leaders are pushing out there.

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:32 pm

Not Naughty by Nature or the Wu are they any more?

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:38 pm

"Intelligent rap". In what nanosecond or alternative time/space continuum did that happen? As noted, it's not about any new artistic approach or mind-expanding experience, but a self-centred approach to life that will eventually lead to nowhere and fizzle out, much like the universe, itself, will eventually. When these people finally decide to come in from the cold and join the (semi) lucid real world, then I'll have respect for them.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:40 pm

ontario claret wrote:"Intelligent rap". In what nanosecond or alternative time/space continuum did that happen? As noted, it's not about any new artistic approach or mind-expanding experience, but a self-centred approach to life that will eventually lead to nowhere and fizzle out, much like the universe, itself, will eventually. When these people finally decide to come in from the cold and join the (semi) lucid real world, then I'll have respect for them.

Well he's just joined the real world and come a cropper.

I have always maintained that there is a letter missing from rap.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Cheese and onion is my favourite one..

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:51 pm

Sturgeon's Law

To Pimp A Butterfly is one of the best albums of any genre of the last decade. Impeccably produced, original, thoughtful and intelligent rap is out there if you're looking for it.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:00 pm

I struggle to distinguish between rap and hip hop - iTunes combines them as a genre

As an unreconstructed punk rocker I've always liked Public Enemy who identify closely with The Clash and definitely tick the 'intelligent' box.

In terms of lyrical dexterity and avoiding the obvious stereotypical pitfalls I'd add the Beastie Boys, De La Soul and Run DMC to the list - but I'm really not well versed enough on the subtleties to know if they fit the definition.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:22 pm

Whatever happened to genuine black artists like Smokey Robinson or Prince? People who could write genuine melodic songs without stealing a single riff from somebody else and attaching misogynist "lyrics" (for want of a better word) to it.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:52 pm

ontario claret wrote:Whatever happened to genuine black artists like Smokey Robinson or Prince? People who could write genuine melodic songs without stealing a single riff from somebody else and attaching misogynist "lyrics" (for want of a better word) to it.

Fentanyl

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:16 pm

Ontario, genuine black artists to me are Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino. They really could rap.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:25 pm

Are Sleaford Mods "rap" ? probably not but they'll do for me.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:31 pm

How intelligent do you have to be to say things like "nigga" and "muvvafukka" a lot?

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:32 pm

"Are Sleaford Mods "rap" ? probably not but they'll do for me."

I think they are - Jason Williamson regularly cites the Wu Tang Clan as a major influence - plus 'Bronx In A Six' is about as rap as a song-title gets. Sleaford Mods came to mind earlier when I saw the Tommy Robinson thread - I'm sensing Jolly F@cker might divide opinion on here.

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:49 pm

Are there any Wu Tang Clan tribute bands around ?

Funkydrummer · Post by **Funkydrummer** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:59 pm

Hell fire !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1wtBIQ5G4A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:01 pm

For some unknown reason I always used to wonder what happened when the Wu Tang Clan were touring and they signed into a hotel for the night after the gig as Mr Killah ('please call me Ghostface') and Mr B@stard etc.

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:02 pm

Vino blanco wrote:Ontario, genuine black artists to me are Little Richard, Chuck Berry and Fats Domino. They really could rap.

That's probably correct, the main difference was a musical component.

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:03 pm

boatshed bill wrote:How intelligent do you have to be to say things like "nigga" and "muvvafukka" a lot?

Not very, that's why they play basketball.

THEWELLERNUT70 · Post by **THEWELLERNUT70** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:09 am

ontario claret wrote:Whatever happened to genuine black artists like Smokey Robinson or Prince? People who could write genuine melodic songs without stealing a single riff from somebody else and attaching misogynist "lyrics" (for want of a better word) to it.

Try Curtis Harding. An artist with two very good albums already under his belt

https://youtu.be/c7yqMpYvox0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:22 am

That Sleaford Mods video, 'Tied in Notts'' him sitting on a bus. The saddest c**nt in British music history, that video, what a tosser:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFFWF1DnZKM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The dumbing down of the UK to that as a leading voice. What a tragedy.

Shakespearean ham omelette.

He now has to save himself by admitting to being the Stan Laurel of music comedy, regarding the dumbing down of the UK to the Blair O' Barmy duffer remit. Will he or 'Nott?'

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:49 am

wish it would go back to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6bRIa- ... WwIM1UogSg

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:39 am

You can't take Sleaford Mods seriously surely?
But they do have what most of the successful hip hop and rap bands of the late 80s 90s did. Ability to spit over a fantastic underneath sample / bass line / riff that entices you to enjoy the song based on melody alone, regardless of your appreciation of the lyric

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:15 am

Chuck Berry a rapper? "My Ding-a-Ling" was the closest thing to a rap song that he ever did and his greatest commercial success, but also the worst garbage that he ever did.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:31 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:You can't take Sleaford Mods seriously surely?
But they do have what most of the successful hip hop and rap bands of the late 80s 90s did. Ability to spit over a fantastic underneath sample / bass line / riff that entices you to enjoy the song based on melody alone, regardless of your appreciation of the lyric

That's the problem with rap - sample i.e. someone else's work stolen. To them riff is just a condensed version of rip off.

SonofPog · Post by **SonofPog** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:05 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irrKFXCoi0A" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Baba Brinkman, the peer reviewed rapper.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:06 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StlMdNcvCJo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The day rap peaked

Woodleyclaret · Post by **Woodleyclaret** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:08 am

Isnt that an oxymoron?

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:33 pm

Yes Woodletyclaret- my first impression yesterday was that this must be an oxymoron thread. I was going to offer: tasteful face-tattoo.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:24 pm

Chobulous wrote:That's the problem with rap - sample i.e. someone else's work stolen. To them riff is just a condensed version of rip off.

Convince me that this is any more 'problematic' than a cover; say, Jeff Buckley's cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:16 am

Spiral wrote:Convince me that this is any more 'problematic' than a cover; say, Jeff Buckley's cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.

Exactly!

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:44 am

rap is a momentous irrelevance, a mere blip in the popular music genre. Populated by simpletons and always hideous.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:24 am

Spiral wrote:Convince me that this is any more 'problematic' than a cover; say, Jeff Buckley's cover of Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.

A cover is what it is, a cover. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. Sampling is basically taking someone else's talent. appropriating it, because you are either so talentless, or so damn lazy that you can't create it yourself. As I said, total rip off.

Squarepusher · Post by **Squarepusher** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:02 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:rap is a momentous irrelevance, a mere blip in the popular music genre. Populated by simpletons and always hideous.

It's been around for forty years. That's one hell of a blip.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:11 pm

Chobulous wrote:A cover is what it is, a cover. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. Sampling is basically taking someone else's talent. appropriating it, because you are either so talentless, or so damn lazy that you can't create it yourself. As I said, total rip off.

I know your angle here - that rap artists are near-unanimously talentless uncreative philistines - but I have to say you're sounding like a philistine yourself (no offence). Throughout the history of the civilised world, artists have used the work of other artists as a springboard from which to develop their own art. Recontextualising the work an artist is inspired by is in itself a legitimate creative endeavour; postmodernism only exists and is understood in the context of that which preceded it. Perhaps in the case of hip-hop it's a little more overt but it makes sense when you consider the origins of rap, namely poor kids growing up in the 70's and 80's with no/limited access to professional recording facilities. I'm still unconvinced that sampling as a means to overcome technical barriers to creating music is somehow 'problematic', or that it makes it illegitimate or any less of an art form than other styles of music.

This probably doesn't need pointing out but I will just to be sure, sampling is only an aspect of rap. Most of it is originally produced.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:32 pm

So was the Bubonic Plague, Squarepusher.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:58 pm

Brother Ali...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXxVhTzH5jA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:01 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8RzKEwb_bA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Squarepusher · Post by **Squarepusher** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:31 am

Pstotto wrote:So was the Bubonic Plague, Squarepusher.

Although, in a weird way, I sort of admire your attempt to compare a style of music to a disease that killed millions of people, I have to feel that it's a little bit off the mark.

Millertime v1.7 · Post by **Millertime v1.7** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:36 am

why you name yourself after an electronic musician who isn't you, bud? Jenkinson will be spinning on his arse in disgust.

Squarepusher · Post by **Squarepusher** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:40 am

Millertime v1.7 wrote:why you name yourself after an electronic musician who isn't you, bud? Jenkinson will be spinning on his arse in disgust.

Guess I just lack imagination. Like all rap artists ever, apparently.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:33 am

Not really, Squarepusher. It's a culture virus.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:54 pm

Pstotto wrote:Not really, Squarepusher. It's a culture virus.

Are there any other subcultures you consider to be a 'virus' or is it just hip-hop, the one created and participated in predominantly by black folk?

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:56 pm

I like the De La Soul album, although it's a bit Sesame St. level stuff. Now it's just street market callers speaking gibberish over gibberish.

The main offender regarding culture viruses is our own minister for culture, media, sport and gambling, whose policy is to big up idiots for political mob rule and then swipe everyone with a 'brook no criticism of' political 'correctness' as a method of totalitarian rule, using a simulacra of fair play as a sop to democratic values and Christian philanthropy and altruism, the big state big magnanimous carer of the whole of the world,for avuncular world-lead status.

As a societal model, it is utterly perverted.

Alan Farquarson at Tate Britain is also a culprit and his chosen 'politically charged' list of Turner Prize nominees this year.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:46 pm

You're entitled to your rant but do you believe that it's fair and reasonable to lay all of those grievances at the doorstep of rappers, DJs, break dancers and graffiti artists from the Bronx? Again, I'm yet to be convinced such artistic expression is, in your words, a cultural virus. Perhaps defining 'culture virus' would be a start. I suspect, considering your posting history, you'll be going down the 'blood and soil' route but I'm all ears, mate.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:12 pm

if that's the culture of the Bronx fair enough. To have it as the world epitome of expression Uber Alles Ad Nauseam everywhere else, no.

Spiral · Post by **Spiral** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Whoa whoa whoa, there. Nobody is claiming it to be the ultimate artistic expression of the Human condition or owt daft like that; you seem to be moving the goalposts. There's an absolutely massive spectrum between the two positions you're stating: between 'rap is culture virus', and the strawman you've created, rap being held (it isn't) as the epitome of artistic/cultural expression above all to the point of nausea.

Pstotto · Post by **Pstotto** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:33 pm

Whatever. It's junk sh*t to me. The recent Adidas ad. on youtube is pure gibberish, it's being used as a tool of media war, methinks. You don't have to accept my subjective opinion, but maybe you should.