Leicester helicopter crash
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Some horrendous footage released. They definitely knew their fate.
Looks dodgy as it tries taking off. Huge ploom of smoke as it takes off.
Looks dodgy as it tries taking off. Huge ploom of smoke as it takes off.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Totally inappropriate disrespectful comment.claretandy wrote:AKA, his mistress.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
engine startcricketfieldclarets wrote:Some horrendous footage released. They definitely knew their fate.
Looks dodgy as it tries taking off. Huge ploom of smoke as it takes off.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Shows what I know. Id have called the aa at that pointVegas Claret wrote:engine start
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Could be costly.Spijed wrote:Dan Roan:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/bbc- ... 75146.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
It wasn’t an engine failure, if it had have been the pilot could have dropped the collective and auto rotated to an emergency landing which they would most likely have survived. From the footage, it looks like the tail rotor failed as the aircraft transitioned into forward flight which is the point of maximum stress on the transmission. Once the tail rotor goes you are basically a passenger to the ensuing fireball and, not to denigrate the pilot, there is no chance he ‘manoeuvred to avoid the fans’ as he had no control over the aircraft. Btw, the main rotor is connected to the tail rotor via a gearbox so if one is spinning, the other one should be too.deanothedino wrote:There's not much you can do if you lose lift in an aircraft either, you're just very unlikely to lose both wings.
From what's been reported it sounds like an engine failure, but as soon as the tail rotor stops a conventional helicopter will just spin. He might have had some limited control with feathering the rotorblades but like you say... unlikely he would have been able to truly know what the result of that would be.
Last edited by BennyD on Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Horrible footage. I thought the sky news footage was bad earlier, but the one doing the rounds on WhatsApp is difficult to watchcricketfieldclarets wrote:Some horrendous footage released. They definitely knew their fate.
Looks dodgy as it tries taking off. Huge ploom of smoke as it takes off.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
It can't be "costly", can it ?
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Isn’t Dan Roan a Burnley fan or am I thinking of another BBC sports editor?
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
It's Christian Fraser.wilks_bfc wrote:Isn’t Dan Roan a Burnley fan or am I thinking of another BBC sports editor?
This user liked this post: wilks_bfc
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
https://www.facebook.com/10001017613824 ... 032227328/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Horrendous, absolutely horrendous. The tail blade goes and from that point on there's absolutely nothing anyone could have done unfortunately
My heart goes out to all involved
Horrendous, absolutely horrendous. The tail blade goes and from that point on there's absolutely nothing anyone could have done unfortunately
My heart goes out to all involved
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Tbf, I've not seen any footage (there wasn't any when I wrote my post). Just the witness reports that it went quiet.BennyD wrote:It wasn’t an engine failure, if it had have been the pilot could have dropped the collective and auto rotated to an emergency landing which they would most likely have survived. From the footage, it looks like the tail rotor failed as the aircraft transitioned into forward flight which is the point of maximum stress on the transmission. Once the tail rotor goes you are basically a passenger to the ensuing fireball and, not to denigrate the pilot, there is no chance he ‘manoeuvred to avoid the fans’ as he had no control over the aircraft. Btw, the main rotor is connected to the tail rotor via a gearbox so if one is spinning, the other one should be too.
Wrt the transmission being linked I've always assumed this is one of the major benefits of NOTAR.
However,
is not true. There's plenty of examples of prolonged flight without a tail rotor but forward momentum (which they won't have had here) is pretty much a necessity. One such example is https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=10493099Once the tail rotor goes you are basically a passenger to the ensuing fireball
Last edited by deanothedino on Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Bit unfortunate for Roan who appears to be simply clarifying off camera who was who, presumably differentiating the wife from the mistress ,though in this day and age he should have known better that anything that could be deemed in appropriate ( and let’s face it it’s bloody insensitive ) will come back to you
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
The image on you tube shows the helicopter at a steady height, then perhaps something comes away from it. It then starts slowly spinning and this gets faster as control is lost.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I’m confused. It is widely accepted that she was his mistress. Once you pass away are people not allowed to talk about your misdemeanours? Feel for his wife in relation to this part of the story, imagine knowing that your husband has died alongside his bit on the side.AlargeClaret wrote:Bit unfortunate for Roan who appears to be simply clarifying off camera who was who, presumably differentiating the wife from the mistress ,though in this day and age he should have known better that anything that could be deemed in appropriate ( and let’s face it it’s bloody insensitive ) will come back to you
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I think she'd have had a pretty good idea what was going on....
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Exactly, but in th aftermath of such a tragedy that sort of thing is generally kept in the background for “sensitivity” sake but as Eddie says I’m sure his Mrs was aware what was going on .MRG wrote:I’m confused. It is widely accepted that she was his mistress. Once you pass away are people not allowed to talk about your misdemeanours? Feel for his wife in relation to this part of the story, imagine knowing that your husband has died alongside his bit on the side.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Then why is it such a big deal for people to mention it? It’s back to people being offended for the sake of being offended
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
You’re not wrong MRG , but the world we live in is an ultra sensitive touchy feely one where even the most innocent remarks and asides can cause twitter mob rage.
Hopefully the bbc will see it for what it was and move on
Hopefully the bbc will see it for what it was and move on
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Not exactly difficult to watch... nothing brutal about itDamo wrote:Horrible footage. I thought the sky news footage was bad earlier, but the one doing the rounds on WhatsApp is difficult to watch
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
This path was not my intent with my "factual" reporting of this other passenger, as at that point in the thread she hadn't been mentioned, which I corrected, and added her background because it was a couple of UK papers that I used to source the information that had described her that way. Reading it back it's easy to see where probably most minds have gone, with one or two mentioning it.AlargeClaret wrote:You’re not wrong MRG , but the world we live in is an ultra sensitive touchy feely one where even the most innocent remarks and asides can cause twitter mob rage.
Hopefully the bbc will see it for what it was and move on
Is it insensitive? I'm not sure, and as others have pointed out, there's no way his wife would have not been complicit with the "arrangement," possibly her lifestyle compensating for the fact, but she did have four kids with him, and in spite of all, she leaves this knowing that he died besides someone else, and not her....
and personally, as I said originally, the one positive out of this tragedy is that she must be thankful none of her kids were involved
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I think the point is that after someone has just died, it's customary to treat them and their grieving family with a bit of respect. It doesn't matter if it was 'common knowledge' he was having an affair, it's respectful to not go on about it. Nothing to do with people being oversensitive, just having respect for the dead and the family of the dead.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
"aye" well put Falcon
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Maybe the Thai people are more relaxed about having bit on the sides?
Their culture would suggest so from my time spent there.
Their culture would suggest so from my time spent there.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Leicester fans singing "Champions of England, you made us sing that" at the memorial outside the ground. Cracking tribute.
https://twitter.com/Real_Casuals_66/sta ... 72384?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://twitter.com/Real_Casuals_66/sta ... 72384?s=19" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Is it getting a bit Princess Diana-ish now ? Does it have to be on every bulletin?
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Correct. The Gazelle, for example, has a tail fin which is aero foil shaped and at cruising speed negates the need for a tail rotor allowing virtually all the power to go to the rotor. However, in the context of the accident, once the tail rotor failed at the point of transition it was absorbing near it’s maximum amount of power. Once the anti torque moment of the tail rotor was lost it was game over as he couldn’t gain any forward speed due to the increasing rotation of the airframe.deanothedino wrote:Tbf, I've not seen any footage (there wasn't any when I wrote my post). Just the witness reports that it went quiet.
Wrt the transmission being linked I've always assumed this is one of the major benefits of NOTAR.
However, is not true. There's plenty of examples of prolonged flight without a tail rotor but forward momentum (which they won't have had here) is pretty much a necessity. One such example is https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=10493099
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Agreed.BennyD wrote:Correct. The Gazelle, for example, has a tail fin which is aero foil shaped and at cruising speed negates the need for a tail rotor allowing virtually all the power to go to the rotor. However, in the context of the accident, once the tail rotor failed at the point of transition it was absorbing near it’s maximum amount of power. Once the anti torque moment of the tail rotor was lost it was game over as he couldn’t gain any forward speed due to the increasing rotation of the airframe.
I've now seen that video, but it looks like it was filmed with a potato. Very hard to see what happens to the tail rotor, other than it evidently stops.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Quickenthetempo wrote:Maybe the Thai people are more relaxed about having bit on the sides?
Their culture would suggest so from my time spent there.
Knowing a lot of Thai women through work, they are certainly not accepting of this. It is however, seen as standard by many, but not all, men.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Well I found it difficult to watch.theroyaldyche wrote:Not exactly difficult to watch... nothing brutal about it
A helicopter spiralling out of control, knowing that it resulted in the death of several people.
Each to their own though
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I meant in comparison to the stuff tha goes round on whatsappDamo wrote:Well I found it difficult to watch.
A helicopter spiralling out of control, knowing that it resulted in the death of several people.
Each to their own though
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
The power is always going to the tail rotor on a gazelle it’s the amount of pitch on the blades that controls the anti torque from the main rotor headBennyD wrote:Correct. The Gazelle, for example, has a tail fin which is aero foil shaped and at cruising speed negates the need for a tail rotor allowing virtually all the power to go to the rotor. However, in the context of the accident, once the tail rotor failed at the point of transition it was absorbing near it’s maximum amount of power. Once the anti torque moment of the tail rotor was lost it was game over as he couldn’t gain any forward speed due to the increasing rotation of the airframe.
It looks like a tail rotor pitch control failure so eauther a control rod becoming loose or a rogue electronic input to the tail rotor servo either way it’s a horrible way to go
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Not entirely accurate; the tail rotor, or fenestron on a Gazelle, is always spinning because it is connected to the main rotor by a gearbox. However, at about 120kts the tail is acting like an aeroplane wing and providing enough sideways ‘lift’ to balance the torque from the main rotor, thereby reducing the power absorbed by the tail rotor to nearly zero. If you had a tail rotor failure at that speed, you may not even notice it until the speed started to reduce. The amount of pitch on the main rotor creates the torque that the anti-torque tail rotor controls.
My guess is an auxiliary gearbox failure or hydraulic failure to the tail rotor.
My guess is an auxiliary gearbox failure or hydraulic failure to the tail rotor.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
70 knot fwd speed if my memory serves on a gazelle
If it was a gearbox failure ie it seized up the tail would stop hence why I suggested a pitch problem
When I was in the army one of the lads I used to work with serviced a lynx that crashed like this never a good thing to happen
Poor poor do for everyone involved and condolences to everyone who lost their lives
If it was a gearbox failure ie it seized up the tail would stop hence why I suggested a pitch problem
When I was in the army one of the lads I used to work with serviced a lynx that crashed like this never a good thing to happen
Poor poor do for everyone involved and condolences to everyone who lost their lives
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
i read it was possible a drone had struck the helicopter, is that likely to have brought it down so dramatically ?
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Where did you read that?Wile E Coyote wrote:i read it was possible a drone had struck the helicopter, is that likely to have brought it down so dramatically ?
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... drone-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Imploding Turtle wrote:Where did you read that?
Police unsurprisingly saying it wasn't there drone but something on the videos is clearly seen coming away from the helicoptor
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Excellent, we've gone full tinfoil hat in less than 5 days.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Fenestron fan casings are a cambered aerofoil, it acts like an aircraft wing (which are also typically cambered aerofoils) at all speeds. It's just a matter of at what airspeed does it generate a significant enough horizontal lift force to counteract the torque of the main rotor blades.BennyD wrote:Not entirely accurate; the tail rotor, or fenestron on a Gazelle, is always spinning because it is connected to the main rotor by a gearbox. However, at about 120kts the tail is acting like an aeroplane wing and providing enough sideways ‘lift’ to balance the torque from the main rotor, thereby reducing the power absorbed by the tail rotor to nearly zero. If you had a tail rotor failure at that speed, you may not even notice it until the speed started to reduce. The amount of pitch on the main rotor creates the torque that the anti-torque tail rotor controls.
My guess is an auxiliary gearbox failure or hydraulic failure to the tail rotor.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
If a drone crashed into a helicopter, do you think the drone would come off unscathed?bumba wrote:https://www.express.co.uk/sport/footbal ... drone-news
Police unsurprisingly saying it wasn't there drone but something on the videos is clearly seen coming away from the helicoptor
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
The pictures show something falling away from the helicopter just before it starts spinning.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Possibly the bit of the helicopter that was supposed to stop it spinning?Sproggy wrote:The pictures show something falling away from the helicopter just before it starts spinning.
If the police still have a drone, then clearly they didn't fly it into the helicopter. And if their drone has been wrecked, then they won't be able to produce it when asked so they would be pretty stupid denying that it was flying.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I found that speed to be in the region of 110-130kts.deanothedino wrote:Fenestron fan casings are a cambered aerofoil, it acts like an aircraft wing (which are also typically cambered aerofoils) at all speeds. It's just a matter of at what airspeed does it generate a significant enough horizontal lift force to counteract the torque of the main rotor blades.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
The only thing I can see is the anti clonk beacon reflecting against the rotor. This appears to stop when the aircraft starts spinning due to the change in angle of the main rotor.Sproggy wrote:The pictures show something falling away from the helicopter just before it starts spinning.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Maybe they had two identical ones. Unless no two drones are identical of course.dsr wrote:Possibly the bit of the helicopter that was supposed to stop it spinning?
Maybe. Or maybe not.
If the police still have a drone, then clearly they didn't fly it into the helicopter. And if their drone has been wrecked, then they won't be able to produce it when asked so they would be pretty stupid denying that it was flying.
Or maybe someone else had a drone?
Or maybe something else happened.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Drones will have serial numbers.Sproggy wrote:Maybe they had two identical ones. Unless no two drones are identical of course.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Which is irrelevant unless remnants of a drone is found, complete with a serial number and someone knows the serial numbers of the drones that the police own.dsr wrote:Drones will have serial numbers.
Not that I think it likely to be a police drone mind.
Re: Leicester helicopter crash
There are records of the serial numbers of all the police drones. If all the police drones are intact, then a police drone didn't cause the crash.Sproggy wrote:Which is irrelevant unless remnants of a drone is found, complete with a serial number and someone knows the serial numbers of the drones that the police own.
Not that I think it likely to be a police drone mind.
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
Don’t see how a drone would cause it to be honest
Even if it had hit the tail rotor would of caused some damage and a bad vibration if the blades were affected an experienced pilot would of been able to land
This looked like a total tail rotor control failure you can see from the video that the tail is still spinning so no fault with the tail rotor drive
Also when you lose the tail control it also causes a roll moment hence why the helicopter is spinning and the tail is going up and down also
Even if it had hit the tail rotor would of caused some damage and a bad vibration if the blades were affected an experienced pilot would of been able to land
This looked like a total tail rotor control failure you can see from the video that the tail is still spinning so no fault with the tail rotor drive
Also when you lose the tail control it also causes a roll moment hence why the helicopter is spinning and the tail is going up and down also
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Re: Leicester helicopter crash
I very much doubt a drone could cause a helicopter to break up.
They are made mainly from plastic and although their rotors do create quite a fierce disturbance they are still made of plastic which would disintegrate if it collided with something like a helicopter.
There are of course large drones but they are of a type which wouldn't be anywhere near a football stadium.
I can safely say a drone would not of caused the helicopter to crash.
They are made mainly from plastic and although their rotors do create quite a fierce disturbance they are still made of plastic which would disintegrate if it collided with something like a helicopter.
There are of course large drones but they are of a type which wouldn't be anywhere near a football stadium.
I can safely say a drone would not of caused the helicopter to crash.