Time to go

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:01 pm

The players we have signed are in the main Championship level and that is the problem. If Dyche was responsible then yes he should go. Lowton, Wood, Taylor, Westwood, Lennon are not PL quality. Neither were Walters or Wells. Not seen enough of Vydra yet.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:03 pm

Burnley manager Sean Dyche: "We started very well, it's a fair shout and then we give away a poor goal from our point of view. It was a top side doing what top sides do, they finish clinically.

"On reflection we have played two top sides back to back in City and Chelsea who have delivered top performances and it's hard to deal with that. We aren't a million miles away.

"Ever since Leicester threw the form book out of the window the superpowers have moved forwards. They have deeper squads, it is getting more difficult to compete. If you look at the table the only real anomaly at the moment is Manchester United.

"Chelsea are title contenders without a doubt. They have a real mixture of players, they are a top top side. The techinical and physical quality of their play is outstanding."

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:04 pm

What an avalanche of shite.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:05 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:What an avalanche of shite.

Totally agree, Dyche out

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:06 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Burnley manager Sean Dyche: "We started very well, it's a fair shout and then we give away a poor goal from our point of view. It was a top side doing what top sides do, they finish clinically.

"On reflection we have played two top sides back to back in City and Chelsea who have delivered top performances and it's hard to deal with that. We aren't a million miles away.

"Ever since Leicester threw the form book out of the window the superpowers have moved forwards. They have deeper squads, it is getting more difficult to compete. If you look at the table the only real anomaly at the moment is Manchester United.

"Chelsea are title contenders without a doubt. They have a real mixture of players, they are a top top side. The techinical and physical quality of their play is outstanding."

Ahhh so now it's Leicester's fault. Sorry but what we are being served up is absolute dogshit. The players just don't look like they give a **** anymore.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Disagree (and it's nice to actually have a well mannered debate on here!), I just want to see some intensity and intent - I'm fully aware and have mentioned already we are punching well above our weight - doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make the most of our position and I don't feel the way we set up enables us to do that. Now, that's down to the manager, our style of football is abysmal and unnecessary as we have good players and have proved last year that when we actually get the ball down we can open teams up. I'm yet to see a football team disobey the managers orders for 30+ games, it comes from the manager and I for one would like him to switch things up (i'm not expecting him to do so though) because if he doesn't we may well go down which would be a shame.

There is another angle to approach from - the fact that Sean Dyche has got us promotion and earned the club millions. There has got to be a bit of leniency. What I mean by that is, to be more lenient and give him time. I would only consider sacking him if we were relegated and didn't look like coming back up.

I feel some fans are punching above their weight - by that, I mean fans are thinking we're better, and deserve better than we actually are. We're still relegation fodder and that won't change unless somebody came in with a huge investment.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:07 pm

Definitely don't want Dyche to go. He's done so much for the club. So I think he deserves my loyalty. Might be just me though.

ClaretAL · Post by **ClaretAL** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Just had a quick look at the run in to January, and unless we turn things around on the pitch, I dont see where the points are coming from. Possibly Westham and Newcatle, but after that not for me, and then if we hit January in the bottom 3 I dont see the board speculating to accumulate, but rather damage reduction thinking of what happens if we go down. This could be a long season and is it just me who thinks for some reason we fade quickly in the second half this season?
I dont see the manager being at Fault here, when i saw the line up today apart from Hendrik as (I would play him instead of Cork in the middle at the moment)number 10 instead of Vydra, it was as strong a line up i have seen this season. I dont see what wood brings apart from the off side flag constantly being raised, so great we are getting a Director of football to help with recruitment, but who ever gets that job may not hand around when he finds he has nothing to play with in January as we are looking closely at that trap door.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:09 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Let's just totally forget about the first half and the numerous chances that we created.... Until the first goal we were completely dominating.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:14 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:What an avalanche of shite.

But not as much shite as your comment.

Longsidelenny · Post by **Longsidelenny** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:16 pm

It’s about time all Burnley supporters stuck together wright now it’s not good watching at the moment dyche is the man for the job we cannot compete with teams like the top six with Brady and Defoe back playing the quality will improve stick together everybody remember once a claret always a claret

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:16 pm

FactualFrank wrote:There is another angle to approach from - the fact that Sean Dyche has got us promotion and earned the club millions. There has got to be a bit of leniency. What I mean by that is, to be more lenient and give him time. I would only consider sacking him if we were relegated and didn't look like coming back up.

I feel some fans are punching above their weight - by that, I mean fans are thinking we're better, and deserve better than we actually are. We're still relegation fodder and that won't change unless somebody came in with a huge investment.

I'm not for one second suggesting he should go, i'm suggesting the performances are proving his tactics aren't working very well and maybe he needs to think of a different approach - he's more than earned the right and time to do that

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:16 pm

I can’t believe anyone as come away from that game thinking we did well and are happy with our style of play.

I’m 29, and I was nodding off near the end, never have I been to a football match and felt like that, it is completely not on, doesn’t matter what the opposition.

To have 1 shot on target all game and it was a header from 18 yards out is a ******* joke.

I would rather we have a go and play football, give teams a game and lose than watch this shower.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:19 pm

There's no getting away from a poor summer's recruitment but that's history now, we can't change it we are where we are and we have to deal with it.

Eddie Howe? Doing an excellent job at Bournemouth where he's local, comfortable, knows the club inside out and has a billionaire backer - swap him out for Dyche at present, given our current model and he'd fare no better than he did previously.

Joe Hart? Whatever is discussed about the state of things as they stand goalkeeper is the one position out of the whole 11 that isn't cause for concern.

The PL has moved on rapidly, unsurprisingly we have not kept pace. How many other clubs in this league have a similar profile to us? I can't think of any. This year two teams were promoted who have seem to have limitless cash reserves.

It's a constant battle for survival. Forget last season's final position. We got an amazing kick start through a combination of great results against the big six when some of them were off the pace and all of our best players being fit and in form at the same time for a variety of reasons.

This year things have leveled out again and we can't address it within the squad because the summer didn't give us that room for manouevre.

Generally. the players have got a bit of a free ride in the current round of criticism but there's probably between 4-6 who are nowhere near last season's level - who knows why, but I'd be amazed if it was solely down to a manager whose had five years of continuous success with by and large a similar group.

Regardless of how bad/lucky we were perceived to be we took 7 from 9 in the three games preceding City and Chelsea, two of the best club sides in Europe both scorelines were disappointing but we are light years away from these teams.

It's a grind, it's not pretty, it's about survival but I can't see anyone better equipped to keep our heads above water than the current manager. Another years survival, another years TV money and we gain a slightly firmer toe-hold on a longer term PL future.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:21 pm

This is the thing. Had we tried to play football, we could have been relegated last season. We'd have chanced it and gone for it - but conceded goals.

Do you not think that SD would be demanding better football, if he didn't think it would cost us points?

We simply do not have enough technical ability to match teams like Chelsea for attacking football - aint going to happen. They'd pick us off and have scored 9.

The Enclosure · Post by **The Enclosure** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:22 pm

I would like to see Dyche put a full shift in and commit to living in the area full time.Cant be good spending hours on end driving up and down the M6 and M1.On the other hand it gives him plenty of time to think whilst driving.

Bin Ont Turf · Post by **Bin Ont Turf** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:22 pm

Leisure wrote:But not as much shite as your comment.

I'll be expecting an apology once you realise your error.

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:24 pm

I want to go to a game and watch Burnley play for once, not how the opposition run rings round us whether Huddersfield or Chelsea.

If it cost us relegation so be it, I want to jump out of my seat and cheer the team on not fall asleep like I nearly did today.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:24 pm

After the start we had we desperately needed some points on the board, with the style in which we got them very much a secondary issue. We did that against Bournemouth, Cardiff and Hudders.

An international break and playing City and Chelsea has halted that momentum in its tracks. We now need points again and I think we all know that the method Dyche will use to get them is trying to grind out one-nils.

If we can put another little run together (say eight points from the next four), then we may see a bit more confidence and some better football.

taio · Post by **taio** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:25 pm

We certainly do need to be playing neater football. Too many times our quality hasn't been anywhere near where it needs to be. Like we did in the first 10 minutes today. Could've easily been beaten 7-0 today.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:32 pm

"If it cost us relegation so be it, I want to jump out of my seat and cheer the team on not fall asleep like I nearly did today."

For me, this comment sums up the divide. It's a fair comment, lots of people adhere to it. But if we did this, with the current quality level in our squad we run the very real risk of relegation. If we went down I would be amazed if we came back anytime soon. At best we would become a mid-table Championship club - and that assumes a reasonable amount of good fortune.

Personally, I consider myself to be a hang on at all costs kind of supporter. In the hope that the accumulated wealth of PL survival at least gives us choices. Enough of my lifetime has been spent watching Burnley toil in the lower divisions, for anyone in any doubt it's not the 'entertainment' utopia that some posters on here would have you believe.

Barry_Chuckle · Post by **Barry_Chuckle** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:32 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Let's just totally forget about the first half and the numerous chances that we created.... Until the first goal we were completely dominating.

WTF

warksclaret · Post by **warksclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:38 pm

Maybe time to freshen up the team first and get a few new ones playing. Gibson surely has to come in now-sorry Ben but our defensive abilities have slipped since this time last year. Or move him to LB-was not there today so I don't know how well Taylor played. Also surely time to bring in Vydra for a run. We won both League games when he has started and partner him with Barnes

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:41 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:"If it cost us relegation so be it, I want to jump out of my seat and cheer the team on not fall asleep like I nearly did today."

For me, this comment sums up the divide. It's a fair comment, lots of people adhere to it. But if we did this, with the current quality level in our squad we run the very real risk of relegation. If we went down I would be amazed if we came back anytime soon. At best we would become a mid-table Championship club - and that assumes a reasonable amount of good fortune.

Personally, I consider myself to be a hang on at all costs kind of supporter. In the hope that the accumulated wealth of PL survival at least gives us choices. Enough of my lifetime has been spent watching Burnley toil in the lower divisions, for anyone in any doubt it's not the 'entertainment' utopia that some posters on here would have you believe.

That’s it though, this team has been built around just that, hanging on. Dyche is never going to change philosophies as it would go against everything he has been schooled to do.

We all want a team we can be proud of, but when you hear ‘Accrington Stanley they’re better than you’ and think well actually if we played them right now, we’d struggle. It hurts, we are an experienced Premier League side, but we haven’t adapted our structure and mentality and philosophy to suit our position.

Despite our remarkable transition, a plan going forward in this league is non existent and right now we are clawing to stay in the league, which is poor management either from Dyche or the board.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:43 pm

The football is of poor quality but for a club with Burnleys limited financial resources to sack there manager mid season at this level would be a disaster.
City and Chelsea are on a different planet and we should not be to didpondant. We now have Defour and Brady back and once these two start firing we should survive another season

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:44 pm

wickdkewlclaret wrote:Despite our remarkable transition, a plan going forward in this league is non existent and right now we are clawing to stay in the league, which is poor management either from Dyche or the board.

It really isn't. It's down to money. It's as simple as that. Poor management has taken us from the Championship and kept us in the Premier League. Is it bo11ocks down to poor management.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:44 pm

Five unbelievable, tremendous, fantastic years and as soon as we hit a rough patch people are posting they want Dyche out. Not sure whether that's more shameful than it is brainless.
A miserable afternoon today in a generally miserable season so far but any Claret so devoid of perspective (and basic gratitude) that they think Dyche should be sacked at this point is absolutely ridiculous imho. Our peer group is really Lancashire town clubs like PNE, Barstewards, Blackpool and Bolton. How's it gone for them remind me ? Dyche will keep us up and we will build and renew. It's a struggle and there is a bit of "what's the point ?" that creeps in with the constant battle for survival that life in the PL will always really be but this thread's premise is depressing to me.

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:46 pm

FactualFrank wrote:It really isn't. It's down to money. It's as simple as that. Poor management has taken us from the Championship and kept us in the Premier League. Is it bo11ocks down to poor management.

I never said it was poor management during our transition to the Premier League did I? Can you see a clear plan going forwards on what we’re trying to achieve.

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:52 pm

"We all want a team we can be proud of, but when you hear ‘Accrington Stanley they’re better than you’ and think well actually if we played them right now, we’d struggle. It hurts, we are an experienced Premier League side, but we haven’t adapted our structure and mentality and philosophy to suit our position."

Again good points and by and large I agree with the vast majority of what you say. My counter argument to that would be we've not become a 'bigger player' in this league just because we've been here for four seasons in the last five seasons - the vast majority of newly promoted clubs during that period have had some sort of financial backer that has more than compensated for the effort we have been putting in to survival and creating a sustainable business model.

We are swimming against the tide. The price we are currently playing to cling on to survival is to sacrifice the levels of quality/entertainment that, given the finances made available to build our squad, would expose us to massive risk of relegation.

Personally I think it's a choice - I don't think we're in any sort of position to compete with the vast majority of teams in this division by playing them at their own game when the financial odds are massively stacked against us.

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:53 pm

wickdkewlclaret wrote:I can’t believe anyone as come away from that game thinking we did well and are happy with our style of play.

I’m 29, and I was nodding off near the end, never have I been to a football match and felt like that, it is completely not on, doesn’t matter what the opposition.

To have 1 shot on target all game and it was a header from 18 yards out is a ******* joke.

I would rather we have a go and play football, give teams a game and lose than watch this shower.

You have never been to a football match and felt like that? You mustn’t have gone to City last week then

Claret Till I Die · Post by **Claret Till I Die** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:54 pm

We brought £15m Chris Wood on to help us turn the game in our favour, they brought a World Cup winner in Giroud to see the game out. The games against the top 6 will never reflect where we are as a club, no matter if we win 1-0 or get battered 5-0. The sooner pro p le realise this the better

Claret Till I Die · Post by **Claret Till I Die** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:55 pm

We brought £15m Chris Wood on to help us turn the game in our favour, they brought a World Cup winner in Giroud to see the game out. The games against the top 6 will never reflect where we are as a club, no matter if we win 1-0 or get battered 5-0. The sooner people realise this the better

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:57 pm

joey13 wrote:Ok you’re happy with the fact everything is fine and we won’t go down , let’s hope you are right

Clearly not. And as i said there is plenty to improve. There always will be.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:58 pm

wickdkewlclaret wrote:I never said it was poor management during our transition to the Premier League did I? Can you see a clear plan going forwards on what we’re trying to achieve.

Something not a single person has mentioned yet - not that I'm aware of anyway... Our 2 best players are now back. Look at our drop in form since Defour and even more so, Brady, was injured. Pretty massive. Maybe, just maybe, those 2 returning were in the board's mind during the transfer window.

Our plan has got to be to stay up - and at the moment, that's it. Stay up and bring in more money. Why break the bank to finish 10th instead of 14th? So long as we stay up, it allows us to do what we've been doing - build the training ground and improve our youth team. There's a lot more to it than simply buying players. Our club is physically 18th century. Remain in the Premier League and allow us to improve everything.

My point is, it's not just about players. It's about bringing our club to the 20th century. That could quite feasibly do us more good in the coming years than signing a player.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:00 pm

Bin Ont Turf wrote:I'll be expecting an apology once you realise your error.

Don't hold your breath. You'll be waiting a long time!

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:00 pm

Dyche is the best manager by far for us, he has brought the club up to this level. The opponents were different class, but we play in the richest league anywhere against world class footballers in some cases.
If that had been against a lesser team like southampton or Palace, we'd have probably hammered them.
Who is this mystical manager out there anyway who could come to Burnley with our meagre resources and shake things up ? He doesnt exist !!!!

Cirrus_Minor · Post by **Cirrus_Minor** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:00 pm

The last two teams and players we have played are amongst the very best in Europe, don't see what having a different manager would do. The season was never going to be defined by how we do against Man City of Chelsea. We are struggling through to regain the defensive organisation we enjoyed last season and that is a worry, but the answer is not to remove the manager.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Compare Chelsea last season to this.

Conte in charge...players gave up

steve1264b · Post by **steve1264b** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:02 pm

While our general form is worrying, i would agree with the managers comments about the top 6 getting stronger. You only have to look at the table to see that, and the lowering of points needed to stay up as the top 6 (it used to be top 4) hoover up the points.

I thought Chelsea were very good today, not as good as other Chelsea teams that have come to the turf, but very strong.

We gave them a good game in my opinion but they were just better and stronger.

Can we get a manager who would make the team win more games? I doubt it.

Do we need to concentrate on the January market? Yes. It is this and not changing the manager that will define our season.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:04 pm

The Enclosure wrote:I would like to see Dyche put a full shift in and commit to living in the area full time.Cant be good spending hours on end driving up and down the M6 and M1.On the other hand it gives him plenty of time to think whilst driving.

Theres literally thousands of people who do that every week. Many in even more high pressure jobs than Dyche.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:05 pm

wickdkewlclaret wrote:I want to go to a game and watch Burnley play for once, not how the opposition run rings round us whether Huddersfield or Chelsea.

If it cost us relegation so be it, I want to jump out of my seat and cheer the team on not fall asleep like I nearly did today.

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:06 pm

We can concentrate on January market all we like. However there are rarely any players available who fit our budget/style, and if in unlikely event there was why would they sign for a relegation candidate?

wickdkewlclaret · Post by **wickdkewlclaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:07 pm

EarbyClaret wrote:"We all want a team we can be proud of, but when you hear ‘Accrington Stanley they’re better than you’ and think well actually if we played them right now, we’d struggle. It hurts, we are an experienced Premier League side, but we haven’t adapted our structure and mentality and philosophy to suit our position."

Again good points and by and large I agree with the vast majority of what you say. My counter argument to that would be we've not become a 'bigger player' in this league just because we've been here for four seasons in the last five seasons - the vast majority of newly promoted clubs during that period have had some sort of financial backer that has more than compensated for the effort we have been putting in to survival and creating a sustainable business model.

We are swimming against the tide. The price we are currently playing to cling on to survival is to sacrifice the levels of quality/entertainment that, given the finances made available to build our squad, would expose us to massive risk of relegation.

Personally I think it's a choice - I don't think we're in any sort of position to compete with the vast majority of teams in this division by playing them at their own game when the financial odds are massively stacked against us.

I also understand your explanation of our position and agree. I guess we are still in that limbo between being established and a newly promoted, just my frustration lies with our lack of ideas on how to move forward again.

The progression our team has made is remarkable, but we can’t rest on past glory’s we have to continue to move forwards, and currently, I can’t see any advancements to when we got promoted at the minute.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:08 pm

Jamesy wrote:We can concentrate on January market all we like. However there are rarely any players available who fit our budget/style, and if in unlikely event there was why would they sign for a relegation candidate?

We've been a relegation candidate since we were promoted.

Jamesy · Post by **Jamesy** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:08 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Theres literally thousands of people who do that every week. Many in even more high pressure jobs than Dyche.

I am pretty sure Dyche and Woan live in Whalley three or four nights a week. You know, just the other side of Padiham?

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:11 pm

At least it wasn’t Ross McCormacks fault

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:15 pm

Sometimes it's fine lines we set off like a house on fire and if we get a goal at that point it changes the whole game ! I'm not panicking they were excellent and lesser sides will get turned over at ours of that I'm sure ! don't panic

EarbyClaret · Post by **EarbyClaret** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:17 pm

"The progression our team has made is remarkable, but we can’t rest on past glory’s we have to continue to move forwards, and currently, I can’t see any advancements to when we got promoted at the minute."

Again, I think you're absolutely right. I guess where the difference lies is how much influence you think BFC, in isolation, has on making that transition. Personally I see the PL spiraling out of financial control and BFC sticking resolutely to its financial model. Short term pain but it's a percentage game and the club calculate they have enough about them to survive, let's hope they're right.

Sooner or later the current PL model will change as the big six will want even more financial control. It's at that point where those amongst the rest who've tried to hang onto their coat tails by gambling on a never ending inflated income stream will crash and burn. Whether we can survive long enough at this level to see that day is another matter.

Longsidebogs · Post by **Longsidebogs** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:23 pm

**** poor tactics and team selection. Dyche has become stale and it’s starting to get embarrassing. Can go now for me and give us a chance to turn things around. We actually have the personnel to do quite well. But you have to play your best players in the right position (Vydra not Hendrick) and replace those who aren’t performing (Cork and others). If Dyche can’t or won’t do this then he should go now.

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:25 pm

if you watch his post match interview he explains perfectly the situation, and we will be back on track soon enough. Dyche is the man for the job.
Tactically he is strong in my view, it would be catastrophic if he left us.