Is the problem Joe Hart...?

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:07 pm

Something ain't right at the moment is it team spirit? is it confidence ? it's hard to put your finger on it but since Joe came in the mood/buzz just doesn't seem to be there! he's a fine keeper but is there a disconnect with the defence ? it's just a gut feeling that I get and I'm sure I'll get slaughtered for suggesting it

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:10 pm

Not sure it's Joe Hart necessarily. But if the rumours of Dyche and Heaton having a big bust up are true then it's bound to have an effect with Heaton being club captain and obviously a popular member of the squad.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:15 pm

Just been on the BFC official website and they have the Auction for the poppy shirts worn on Sunday.... NO JOE HART SHIRT? Toms Number 1 shirt already at £300 but Joe Harts No20 Shirt not available

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:17 pm

That makes sense anyone who has played for a few years will have experienced internal power struggles and player power causing problems..

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:17 pm

Bosscat wrote:Just been on the BFC official website and they have the Auction for the poppy shirts worn on Sunday.... NO JOE HART SHIRT? Toms Number 1 shirt already at £300 but Joe Harts No20 Shirt not available

That's cos Its been sold.

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:18 pm

Our best player isn't the problem. I think it's a combination of things, including confidence and tactics.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:19 pm

This Hart thing from posters on here / fans is getting rather weird.

Siddo · Post by **Siddo** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:22 pm

To be fair, how many times is this going to be discussed. They're professional footballers and are looking out for themselves, not playing some silly game to get Heaton back into the team.

Face the facts, 70 odd England caps against 2. Discussion over.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:24 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Not sure it's Joe Hart necessarily. But if the rumours of Dyche and Heaton having a big bust up are true then it's bound to have an effect with Heaton being club captain and obviously a popular member of the squad.

Where have you heard that?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:27 pm

Spijed wrote:Where have you heard that?

Voices in his head.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:30 pm

I'd like Tom back in or even better Nick when he's ready like I said it's just a gut feeling...

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:31 pm

Spijed wrote:Where have you heard that?

From Cleveleysclaret or KRBFC

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:32 pm

tim_noone wrote:That's cos Its been sold.

No Tim the shirts are only "sold" to the highest bidder on the 5th of November....

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:36 pm

So who was to blame for our rubbish form prior to him signing? we have been poor for 10 months now.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:42 pm

boatshed bill wrote:So who was to blame for our rubbish form prior to him signing? we have been poor for 10 months now.

Try and remember who the scapegoat was before Hart.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:43 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Try and remember who the scapegoat was before Hart.

No, it's gone, Fidel

Oh, hang on! Wasn't it Hendrick(s)?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:45 pm

boatshed bill wrote:No, it's gone, Fidel

Oh, hang on! Wasn't it Hendrick(s)?

Kev Long, wasn't it?

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:47 pm

I thought it was Bardsley ?

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:47 pm

Spijed wrote:Where have you heard that?

I am sure it was mentioned as a theoretical scenario for the problems on one of these threads in the last few days. It's now developed into a rumour!

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:49 pm

burnleymik wrote:I am sure it was mentioned as a theoretical scenario for the problems on one of these threads in the last few days. It's now developed into a rumour!

And tomorrow it'll be a FACT.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:49 pm

Spijed wrote:Where have you heard that?

A mate who knows someone who works down at Gawthorpe. I normally take stuff like that with a pinch of salt but I don't know, something just doesn't seem right with the squad this season. I think it runs a bit deeper than just a bad run of form.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:51 pm

jrgbfc wrote:A mate who knows someone who works down at Gawthorpe. I normally take stuff like that with a pinch of salt but I don't know, something just doesn't seem right with the squad this season. I think it runs a bit deeper than just a bad run of form.

Who does this mate know? Tom Heaton or Joe Hart?

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:52 pm

File under players can't be bothered, Mee's had his head turned by better offers, Dyche can't be arsed beause of the poor Summer transfer window, Defour won't play for us again, Wardy won't play for us again, Dyche and Heaton have had a falling-out blah, blah, ******* blah...

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:52 pm

fidelcastro wrote:Kev Long, wasn't it?

Did he play enough games?

I thought he was just the butt of the "wage-stealer" accusations.

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:55 pm

boatshed bill wrote:Did he play enough games?

I thought he was just the butt of the "wage-stealer" accusations.

He was certainly in the team towards the back end of last season when Mee was on strike... erm, sorry... I mean injured.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:57 pm

Go on, say it, you WANT the problem to be Joe Hart.

You don’t want the problem to be Mee, Cork or any of our underperforming players. You don’t want it to be Dyche or the disaster transfer window either.

There’s one candidate for Player of the Season so far. Two if you really push it, I bet you you can’t guess who it is.

jlup1980 · Post by **jlup1980** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:09 pm

There's no problem as such in my opinion. We just need a couple of positive results. Our form since Defour got injured in January has been pretty awful and that will impact the team morale over time. We're struggling a bit but we'll bounce back.

The whole Hart vs Heaton vs Dyche thing is totally fabricated. The fact is Heaton wasn't fully fit when Hart arrived and Hart played very well. We all know that Dyche sticks with players who are playing well so it's currently Hart's place to lose. Heaton played in the League Cup and that was his chance to knock on the door but he played very poorly. Dyche wasn't forced into keeping him in the team so here we are.

We'll start picking up points again soon I'm sure. Defour and Brady will make a huge difference. We just need one of the strikers to come good at the same time.

Oshkoshclaret · Post by **Oshkoshclaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:09 pm

It's a fair question and something that I've been wondering myself. Obviously he is performing well and making some great saves. And he seems like a decent, honest, passionate lad. But there's something about the way he comes across... body language on the field, that Times interview he did recently, etc... that is triggering that gut feeling that he somehow doesn't fit. He talked in the Times interview about his important role in "galvanising" the England squad in qualifying, but during the World Cup we saw a profoundly more relaxed group and I think that fed into their performances. I wonder if Joe's undoubted intensity is counterproductive in a team atmosphere... players need to be relaxed and confident to be at their best. I'm not having a go at Joe, I like him, but I do think it was a fair question from the OP.

Dy1geo · Post by **Dy1geo** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:21 pm

MOTD 2 analysis picked up our issue and it is not closing down the opposing player and not Joe Hart who despite letting in 4 goals was in my opinion our MOM. People have an issue with him for some reason I even heard that he has an issue with shots to his left and teams have found his weakness, last year we stopped the shots and Pope or Heaton would have let the same if not more in, I feel for Heaton but in Greece he was very “rusty” and he will probably be on his way in the January transfer window.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:28 pm

No.

/thread

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:35 pm

Anyone who has been following the club for a while, knows what the real issue is within the squad.

The loss of Dean Marney!

RMutt · Post by **RMutt** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:44 pm

Last year much was made of a statistic which made Pope one of the best in the Premier League. It was to do with the number of goal scoring chances he saved, something along the lines of expected goals versus actual goals. Does anyone know where that statistic came from and how it compares to Hart’s this season?

RMutt · Post by **RMutt** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:50 pm

This has what I was thinking about. Opta statistics.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2 ... l-england/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:50 pm

Oshkoshclaret wrote:It's a fair question and something that I've been wondering myself. Obviously he is performing well and making some great saves. And he seems like a decent, honest, passionate lad. But there's something about the way he comes across... body language on the field, that Times interview he did recently, etc... that is triggering that gut feeling that he somehow doesn't fit. He talked in the Times interview about his important role in "galvanising" the England squad in qualifying, but during the World Cup we saw a profoundly more relaxed group and I think that fed into their performances. I wonder if Joe's undoubted intensity is counterproductive in a team atmosphere... players need to be relaxed and confident to be at their best. I'm not having a go at Joe, I like him, but I do think it was a fair question from the OP.

The question there is, Is that intensity what comes with the big name players? Big names because they are good, or have been good. If that’s the case, then the players need to get used to it quickly if they want to continue to progress.. helping the club to. I’d love to see one or two in a Claret shirt

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:52 pm

Oshkoshclaret wrote:It's a fair question and something that I've been wondering myself. Obviously he is performing well and making some great saves. And he seems like a decent, honest, passionate lad. But there's something about the way he comes across... body language on the field, that Times interview he did recently, etc... that is triggering that gut feeling that he somehow doesn't fit. He talked in the Times interview about his important role in "galvanising" the England squad in qualifying, but during the World Cup we saw a profoundly more relaxed group and I think that fed into their performances. I wonder if Joe's undoubted intensity is counterproductive in a team atmosphere... players need to be relaxed and confident to be at their best. I'm not having a go at Joe, I like him, but I do think it was a fair question from the OP.

Some people want to believe this and some don't, but the facts are Tom did absolutely nothing wrong only get injured, he is a very popular member of the squad, club captain, and a great keeper, he is also extremely vocal and organises his defence, consequently they feel much more confident with him behind them imo, Joe imo doesn't do the latter, and although is a good keeper in he's own right does not simply have the qualities that Tom has, some could say then how did nick pope become no 1, this was a more natural progression imo he was already in the squad and when tomorrow got injured it was he's rightful place when he came in, it does seem that there are deeper problems than just, injuries, tactics, players underperforming etc, and the most glaring europa league issue, but imo there is something clearly not right within the squad and this is a very fair point imo.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:53 pm

Should have said Tom and not tomorrow before anyone tells me.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:05 pm

But when Pope got injured against Aberdeen we would have taken an enormous risk if we hadn't got a new keeper in, especially as no-one knew whether Heaton's shoulder would remain injury free - similar to Charlie Austin.

Imagine the scenario where we took the risk and in the first league game against Southampton Tom takes a knock to his shoulder and it's clear he can't carry on. We would be in a right mess.

So what other option did the club have, apart from signing a new keeper, especially one as good as Joe Hart?

Jakubclaret · Post by **Jakubclaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:12 pm

burnleymik wrote:Our best player isn't the problem. I think it's a combination of things, including confidence and tactics.

Very true, I think it’s also worthwhile to remember that we are dealing with some pretty good teams qualitywise, nobody can be mugged off every quarter has to be earnt & credited for what it is, you won’t get any change from no one with being sloppy.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:18 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:No.

/thread

Shell your back in head put..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:21 pm

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Shell your back in head put..

Asks a quests. Gets an answer he doesn't like. Posts this response.

alwaysaclaret · Post by **alwaysaclaret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:28 pm

Spijed wrote:But when Pope got injured against Aberdeen we would have taken an enormous risk if we hadn't got a new keeper in, especially as no-one knew whether Heaton's shoulder would remain injury free - similar to Charlie Austin.

Imagine the scenario where we took the risk and in the first league game against Southampton Tom takes a knock to his shoulder and it's clear he can't carry on. We would be in a right mess.

So what other option did the club have, apart from signing a new keeper, especially one as good as Joe Hart?

Absolutely agree with your point, and definitely the club and manager were in an unenviable position but my point is Joe has become sean's undoubted no 1 keeper, and to go back to my point Tom was a very popular member of the squad and club captain and dare I say a player other members looked up to, this and the combination of the fact that 1 or 2 of the back 4 particularly did not feature on the big stage being Istanbul and olympiakos has imo caused some unrest, and again imo this can't go unnoticed, because the performances on the pitch so far this season are a shadow of what we were last, not forgetting we've had injuries to contend with and, again dare I say we actually missed the likes of arfield/boyd, and Marney on Sunday because after the first 10/15 minutes there was no one put anything like a shift in, and this imo is minimum requirement as a lifelong fan. But just on the injuries Brady and d4 are just not going to be the messiah'so that most people think they are, although it should help.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:37 pm

Heaton is obviously the bad egg. First time in his Burnley career he has been fit and not first choice and sounds like he's causing all the hoo-ha.

Im sure both Fidel and Spijed will both agree with my synopsis

Claret-On-A-T-Rex · Post by **Claret-On-A-T-Rex** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:38 pm

The problem is the Europa League, as soon as we get knocked out we'll start winning again.

bfccrazy · Post by **bfccrazy** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:40 pm

Bosscat wrote:No Tim the shirts are only "sold" to the highest bidder on the 5th of November....

Sometimes players like to keep shirts and make their own sizeable contribution to the charity instead for it.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm

Mentioned to a colleague (City fan) about this bizarre indifference towards Joe Hart. He said you'd be getting beat by cricket scores if it wasn't for him mate.

Funny how fans / posters complain about lack of ambition etc and then start to wonder if signing a player with 70 international caps is now the problem as he's replaced a keeper who's been out injured for a long period and then picked up another injury and has looked rusty in subsequent cup appearances.

I feel sorry for Lindegard.

Pimlico_Claret · Post by **Pimlico_Claret** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:07 pm

NL Claret wrote:Mentioned to a colleague (City fan) about this bizarre indifference towards Joe Hart. He said you'd be getting beat by cricket scores if it wasn't for him mate.

Funny how fans / posters complain about lack of ambition etc and then start to wonder if signing a player with 70 international caps is now the problem as he's replaced a keeper who's been out injured for a long period and then picked up another injury and has looked rusty in subsequent cup appearances.

I feel sorry for Lindegard.

What is the situation with Lindegard?

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:20 pm

NL Claret wrote: He said you'd be getting beat by cricket scores if it wasn't for him mate.

Not really as that rarely happens in football.

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:22 am

Strange how people's views differ. I was talking to a Liverpool fan tonight who said we need to ship Joe Hart out because all the top players know his weaknesses.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:02 am

Are threads about Hart being the issue going to be a daily thing, or weekly?

fidelcastro · Post by **fidelcastro** » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:02 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Are threads about Hart being the issue going to be a daily thing, or weekly?

I don't know, but wait until Hart drops an almighty clanger(like all keepers do) and then they'll circle like vultures on here, all saying "I told ya!"