Warburton the preferred choice as Technical Director

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:57 pm

According to SSN tonight
OK - only speculation
A Technical Director and manager have to work together which, I believe SD and he did together in some capacity at Watford
But, given Warburton's record in management since (Notts Forest and Rangers), is he really the right person for the job
Someone can correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Brentford Chairman let Warburton go because he wanted someone to come in to do a similar role which Warburton rejected

colne-claret · Post by **colne-claret** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:01 pm

jojomk1 wrote:According to SSN tonight
OK - only speculation
A Technical Director and manager have to work together which, I believe SD and he did together in some capacity at Watford
But, given Warburton's record in management since (Brentford and Rangers), is he really the right person for the job

But it's a different job. If he was technical director he wouldn't be coaching the team.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:02 pm

Depends what the Technical Director's remit is going too be,clearly Warburton has a good eye for a player given his record at Brentford.

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:07 pm

Mike Rigg and Nicky Hammond the other names mentioned with both Rigg and Warburton having thought to have also applied for the FA's TD role being vacated by Dan Ashworth.

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:08 pm

I’d be putting money on Warburton becoming first team manager within a year if he gets the job.

Just a feeling

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:08 pm

Interesting quotes from Brendan Flood in this article/interview with Training Ground Guru.

http://trainingground.guru/articles/bur ... l-director" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:09 pm

tiger76 wrote:Depends what the Technical Director's remit is going too be,clearly Warburton has a good eye for a player given his record at Brentford.

Was it Warburton or McParland who found players

Brentford seem to have a decent recruitment team now

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:14 pm

Totally forgot Flood still had stakes in the club.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:15 pm

jojomk1 wrote:Was it Warburton or McParland who found players

Brentford seem to have a decent recruitment team now

I guess we'll find out in the next window,Burnley aren't using the moneyball system,so the onus will fall to the recruitment team.

Of course whether the recommendations will be pursued and fit the manager's criteria is a whole different ball game.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:20 pm

Warburton just seems like an uninspiring, obvious from day one, type of appointment.

Mike Rigg has a long CV and Nicky Hammond was seemingly involved at Reading during their best ever period and at West Brom,who it could be argued operate in a similar fashion to us.

I think if it’s between those 3 my choice would be Hammond.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:25 pm

tiger76 wrote:I guess we'll find out in the next window,Burnley aren't using the moneyball system,so the onus will fall to the recruitment team.

Of course whether the recommendations will be pursued and fit the manager's criteria is a whole different ball game.

We won't find out in the next window, the new TD either will not be in place or will not have been in the role long enough to have such an impact. Then again fans / UTC posters will judge pre appointment or in a short space time post appointment.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:36 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:Warburton just seems like an uninspiring, obvious from day one, type of appointment.

Mike Rigg has a long CV and Nicky Hammond was seemingly involved at Reading during their best ever period and at West Brom,who it could be argued operate in a similar fashion to us.

I think if it’s between those 3 my choice would be Hammond.

Uninspiring??
I hope our recruitment process will be a bit more stringent than deciding which one you think is best based on limited information!

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:37 pm

NL Claret wrote:We won't find out in the next window, the new TD either will not be in place or will not have been in the role long enough to have such an impact. Then again fans / UTC posters will judge pre appointment or in a short space time post appointment.

Fair enough i thought the new TD would be starting ASAP,in that case we'll find out in the summer,obviously our targets will depend on whichever league we are competing in at that time.

I'm assuming the TD won't be conducting any negotiations,that will still be in the hands of the chairman.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:59 pm

ClaretAndJew wrote:Totally forgot Flood still had stakes in the club.

Brendan's shareholding is miniscule compared to when he joined the Board originally. When he left the Board in Jan'13 the bulk of his 24.9% shareholding was purchased by Mike Garlick and John B.

He returned to the Board in Mar'14 but with a very limited shareholding.

The latest information shows Mike G with 49.2%, John B with 28.2% and the other five directors with a total of 16.4% between them. The remaining 7% or so is held by 1,800 other shareholders.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:01 pm

tiger76 wrote:Fair enough i thought the new TD would be starting ASAP,in that case we'll find out in the summer,obviously our targets will depend on whichever league we are competing in at that time.

I'm assuming the TD won't be conducting any negotiations,that will still be in the hands of the chairman.

Read somewhere it won't be a rushed appointment. Obviously a process to follow, it won't happen over night. Nor will their initial impact. Even when moriniho went in at United the pundits reckon he needed at least 3 transfer windows to sort the team out.

We live in an Amazon society where most things are delivered over night and there is the same expectation in modern day football.

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:03 pm

The 3 transfer windows certainly did the trick for Mourinho.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:24 am

randomclaret2 wrote:The 3 transfer windows certainly did the trick for Mourinho.

You honestly think he has having much say in transfers at O.T ? Certainly doesn't look like it at all

boatshed bill · Post by **boatshed bill** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:53 am

Why does Flood get to have a say on this? Minor shareholder.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:30 am

boatshed bill wrote:Why does Flood get to have a say on this? Minor shareholder.

He is a member of the Board and therefore has a say in all aspects of the club. Things like the appointment of a Technical Director are normally voted on using the 1 person, 1 vote principle thus he will be 1 of 7 making the decision.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:49 am

Warburton is looking for his next opportunity to manage. He's been spectacularly successful at some of his stops, but crashed and burned at others. That's the problem with early success in your career. People expect you to come in and wave some kind of magic wand. In truth, it takes time to build a proper squad in your own image. But if Warburton does get hired, that means that he's the next king in waiting. Dyche would be left looking over his shoulder, with this transfer window his only hope for preservation. Personally, I hope it never happens, but one never knows.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:08 am

Whoever gets the job will have to sign a world beater from an obscure foreign league for £500k in January to please some posters on here.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:22 am

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:Uninspiring??
I hope our recruitment process will be a bit more stringent than deciding which one you think is best based on limited information!

Yes, uninspiring.

Go back to when this job was first mooted and other than the folk that said Ternent and Cotterill on here, Warburton was the next obvious name. It all feels a bit safe and a bit predictable.

He may be the right man for the job of course but my preference would be one of the other two, probably Hammond, based on what I do know.

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:37 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:Yes, uninspiring.

Go back to when this job was first mooted and other than the folk that said Ternent and Cotterill on here, Warburton was the next obvious name. It all feels a bit safe and a bit predictable.

He may be the right man for the job of course but my preference would be one of the other two, probably Hammond, based on what I do know.

Imagine plenty thought Dyche was an uninspiring appointment and the board did ok with that. No idea what Hammond has ever done in this role but if he impresses sure he will be appointed on merit.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:48 am

From what was available Dyche was the best option by far. He was young, progressive and had done a decent job in his previous role.

I’ll admit that in that first 6 months I was concerned about our style and the results but he obviously turned that round.

If Warburton gets the job he will have my full support (I don’t think the role is as influential in 1st team results as others seem to do) but I’d just prefer if we thought a bit outside the box on this one. Warburton seems to fit what we are now as opposed to being someone that will help the club evolve over the next few years.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:51 am

Can't believe we aren't getting someone with a foreign name that would inspire everyone. Just having a foreign name would automatically make him better at his job.

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:14 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:Can't believe we aren't getting someone with a foreign name that would inspire everyone. Just having a foreign name would automatically make him better at his job.

I can’t believe that some folk think that that is why others aren’t sold on Warburton.

I don’t give a toss if he’s from Panama or Parliament Street, or called Mauricio or Maurice so long as he’s the right man for the job!

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:25 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:If Warburton gets the job he will have my full support (I don’t think the role is as influential in 1st team results as others seem to do) but I’d just prefer if we thought a bit outside the box on this one. Warburton seems to fit what we are now as opposed to being someone that will help the club evolve over the next few years.

Perfectly summed up. Everything at the club seems to be done for the ‘now’ with very little thought about the future. We aren’t developing because we don’t seem to be looking for the next step.

I don’t mind Warburton but from my limited knowledge about him he doesn’t have the knowledge and contacts for European recruitment that our directors are specifically saying they are looking for in a TD. We then employ a specialist recruiting agency to seek this specific kind of person. If we end up with one of Sean’s mates it will appear an uninspiring appointment and feel like we have had to ‘make do’ which seems to be how all our recruiting goes at the moment

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:35 am

I must say that looks a very strong shortlist.

Hammond was very much the template for this sort of role when he was doing it at Reading a decade ago - he nearly replaced David Dein at Arsenal. Mike Rigg also has excellent pedigree (although if you wanted to be critical you'd question why he's ended up at QPR and Fulham after leaving City).

Warburton also has excellent pedigree for this role. Sure, he's been a manager and there's always a question about whether that's what he really wants to be, and there's probably also a legitimate question about his closeness to Dyche (that could be a blessing, but it could be a curse both in terms of whether he'd really challenge Dyche when appropriate, but also whether he'd be more part of Dyche's backroom team than the general infrastructure at Burnley) - but that's one for the Chairman to determine. On paper, his CV is very good.

I also don't understand this idea that the club aren't building for the future. Everything that has happened at Gawthorpe, the improvements in the youth teams, etc. suggests the precise opposite. In fairness to Dyche he's driven that. Sure, first team recruitment has been cautious, but there's been good reasons for that. It strikes me that some of those who complain the club isn't developing for the long term really mean that they want first team recruitment to be more exciting, which isn't quite the same thing.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:40 am

MRG wrote:I don’t mind Warburton but from my limited knowledge about him he doesn’t have the knowledge and contacts for European recruitment that our directors are specifically saying they are looking for in a TD. If we end up with one of Sean’s mates it will appear an uninspiring appointment and feel like we have had to ‘make do’ which seems to be how all our recruiting goes at the moment

Isn't the point here in your first few lines? You've reached a sweeping conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses and contacts, based on limited knowledge of him?

Isn't the chairman better placed to make that judgement?

UpTheClaretsFCBK · Post by **UpTheClaretsFCBK** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:42 am

He’d be a good appointment.

He’s got a great eye for talent in the lower leagues.

I fear however, this isnt going to do anything for our biggest issue and that’s our inability to scout, attract and sign overseas talent. Last summer made it pretty clear that the homegrown talent that would better our first 11 is still out of our financial reach.

claretonthecoast1882 · Post by **claretonthecoast1882** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:42 am

claretspice wrote:Isn't the point here in your first few lines? You've reached a sweeping conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses and contacts, based on limited knowledge of him?

Isn't the chairman better placed to make that judgement?

Doesn't work like that on here

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:11 am

Can someone here please explain what a technical director does? I work with a whole bunch of fans as diverse as United/City/Liverpool/Bolton/Wigan and of course myself and not one of us understands what a technical director actually does. Not fully. Genuine question here - no hint of irony.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:12 am

From that shortlist - got to be Hammond for me, if only it’s because I’ve met him on numerous occasions and I know he’d be great for the role - very intelligent and analytical in everything he does.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:24 am

houseboy wrote:Can someone here please explain what a technical director does? I work with a whole bunch of fans as diverse as United/City/Liverpool/Bolton/Wigan and of course myself and not one of us understands what a technical director actually does. Not fully. Genuine question here - no hint of irony.

He provides direction to the technical stuff !

From what SD has said about the role at Burnley it’s to alleviate him from some of the non footballing work related to players transfers / contracts etc. It sounds like SD has a clear idea what he expects from the role.

I’m guessing each club who has one defines what they need from the role as a club and this differs between clubs. The term “technical director” has become a generic term to help distinguish it from the coaching type roles.

Personally I would have reservations about someone like Warburton as his past involvement in the football / coaching might muddy the waters and there will be constant speculation he has his eyes on the managers role if SD is struggling.

BOYSIE31 · Post by **BOYSIE31** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:30 am

ksrclaret wrote:I’d be putting money on Warburton becoming first team manager within a year if he gets the job.

Just a feeling

Be better football on view

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:39 am

TVC15 wrote:He provides direction to the technical stuff !

From what SD has said about the role at Burnley it’s to alleviate him from some of the non footballing work related to players transfers / contracts etc. It sounds like SD has a clear idea what he expects from the role.

I’m guessing each club who has one defines what they need from the role as a club and this differs between clubs. The term “technical director” has become a generic term to help distinguish it from the coaching type roles.

Personally I would have reservations about someone like Warburton as his past involvement in the football / coaching might muddy the waters and there will be constant speculation he has his eyes on the managers role if SD is struggling.

Cheers for that mate. So if I am understanding right it's another level of management whose remit is whatever the club wants it to be but one that should, if it works, relieves the manager of some tasks that take up too much non-footballing time? Sounds like a plan but presumably they won't come cheap, which begs the question would we be better spending the wage on a class striker?

The other problem. potentially, is would Dyche work okay with someone like this as he seems to thrive on total control. He is not a man who likes to be told what to do I'm guessing so is there a risk of friction? I suppose it would depend on what, exactly, the new guys role would be.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:42 am

Fans were hoping for a technical director from abroad for

Other European nations play more technical football to us as standard.
To open up a transfer market we clearly haven't got at the moment.
To bring fresh and new ideas to the club/players.
Somebody around the club that spoke a few different languages to communicate with foreign players if needed.

More of a risk but has far more potential for the club.

Warburton might make Dyche's job easier but with them being best mates he has probably already heard all of his ideas about football.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:41 am

randomclaret2 wrote:The 3 transfer windows certainly did the trick for Mourinho.

The pundits don't always get it right

- who knows - it could be 9 transfers windows!!

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:00 pm

houseboy wrote:Cheers for that mate. So if I am understanding right it's another level of management whose remit is whatever the club wants it to be but one that should, if it works, relieves the manager of some tasks that take up too much non-footballing time? Sounds like a plan but presumably they won't come cheap, which begs the question would we be better spending the wage on a class striker?

The other problem. potentially, is would Dyche work okay with someone like this as he seems to thrive on total control. He is not a man who likes to be told what to do I'm guessing so is there a risk of friction? I suppose it would depend on what, exactly, the new guys role would be.

Who knows what really goes on behind the doors of a football club these days. As grounded and down to earth we all believe our manager and chairman are like any multi national big business with hundreds of millions at stake there will always be a sizeable element of politics, power struggles and big egos at play. I am sure Burnley is nowhere near the level of other clubs when it comes to this but i’d be amazed if it’s not there to some degree.

Whether SD is happy with the appointment of this role or not who knows ? It may have been his idea for all we know.

You are correct that it won’t be a cheap role to employ but presumably the club have a commercial rational that in the long term it will benefit us through the work they do.

Personally from what I have heard from SD and some of his old fashioned principles about the way players should be treated, discipline etc I would be very surprised if this role was his idea and that he is happy with it - but he would never say otherwise in public as he is fiercely loyal.

I may be completely wrong but I do agree that there is something not quite right at the club since the summer.

Money - the root of all evil eh !!!

Steve-Harpers-perm · Post by **Steve-Harpers-perm** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:37 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Fans were hoping for a technical director from abroad for

Other European nations play more technical football to us as standard.
To open up a transfer market we clearly haven't got at the moment.
To bring fresh and new ideas to the club/players.
Somebody around the club that spoke a few different languages to communicate with foreign players if needed.

More of a risk but has far more potential for the club.

Warburton might make Dyche's job easier but with them being best mates he has probably already heard all of his ideas about football.

How many fans did you question to come to the conclusion ‘the fans’ wanted a technical director from abroad?

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:48 pm

If it is Warburton, just comes across as a job for the boys.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:51 pm

I believe one of the aims for bringing in a TD is to improve our overseas recruitment. Give that I see two major points for me, who has the best experience oat overseas markets, then if we dilute that to European markets then surely Brexit is going to have a large influence in that arena and we are talking about players needing to fulfill the rest of the world guide lines! International caps will play a large part in that, if the pound falls as many predict then the costs of buying and wages will need to increase to entice players to BFC.

None of it insurmountable but much more difficult and personally I would be looking at overseas recruitment as a key part of the rationale for hiring, think UK and even Irish players is not that big of an issue in identifying prospects. Additionally in this vein what effect will Brexit have upon our Irish contingent, I can see issues such as work permits and pay rises looming, work permits not such a big issue since they are all capped players, but more work on the administration front that SD does not want to involve himself in me thinks.

as usual all IMO

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:53 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:How many fans did you question to come to the conclusion ‘the fans’ wanted a technical director from abroad?

Three thousand, four hundred and sixty two.

All overwhelmingly supported the foreign approach.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:07 pm

houseboy wrote:Cheers for that mate. So if I am understanding right it's another level of management whose remit is whatever the club wants it to be but one that should, if it works, relieves the manager of some tasks that take up too much non-footballing time? Sounds like a plan but presumably they won't come cheap, which begs the question would we be better spending the wage on a class striker?

The other problem. potentially, is would Dyche work okay with someone like this as he seems to thrive on total control. He is not a man who likes to be told what to do I'm guessing so is there a risk of friction? I suppose it would depend on what, exactly, the new guys role would be.

Absolutely. I think the role of director of football as we're interpreting it is to be in charge of all football "operations" - i.e. dealing with agents on contract negotiations, building the scouting network and overseeing talent identification at all levels, dealing with transfer negotiations day to day, implementing youth development strategy. It's a background role. In effect, you're creating 3 direct reports to the board of directors - your Chief Executive (who is basically responsible for everything not directly related to football), the first team manager, and the new director of football. It ought to allow Dyche to focus on what he is best at - building and drilling a football team and managing first team footballers.

The best ones operate quietly, and fans never quite know what they do.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:08 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Fans were hoping for a technical director from abroad for

Other European nations play more technical football to us as standard.
To open up a transfer market we clearly haven't got at the moment.
To bring fresh and new ideas to the club/players.
Somebody around the club that spoke a few different languages to communicate with foreign players if needed.

More of a risk but has far more potential for the club.

Warburton might make Dyche's job easier but with them being best mates he has probably already heard all of his ideas about football.

I'm not sure if this is tongue in cheek, but the idea that the DoF appointment should be used to tear up our existing scouting and recruitment strategy, rather than expand and refine it, seems a little bit bonkers to me.

The DoF can appoint the scouts overseas, and he can employ a couple of translators if we need them. He doesn't need to be either of those things himself.

Rick_Muller · Post by **Rick_Muller** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:13 pm

claretspice wrote:The best ones operate quietly, and fans never quite know what they do.

Hence my vote for Nick Hammond - no one really knew of him at Reading during their successful years, and it wasn't until he left for West Brom that his name became more well known.

KateR · Post by **KateR** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:15 pm

I think your missing the point, what company employs someone overseas and has no checks and balances on what they are doing day to day, strategy was mentioned and would be very important, F2F meetings would be regularly required. Video conferencing etc will work for a lot of it but not such you can give people autonomous roles to do what they want. Additionally you need to define if you want a scout who only works for you/your club.

TDF will also be responsible for other areas such as sport science, the intent if to take what is in place and pull it together, make it more efficient and add on to the existing not throw everything away and start from scratch.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:18 pm

Rick_Muller wrote:Hence my vote for Nick Hammond - no one really knew of him at Reading during their successful years, and it wasn't until he left for West Brom that his name became more well known.

Yep, Hammond was hugely well regarded at Reading. His time at West Brom went less well - I assume he appointed Pardew which went badly (they of course knew each other of old from Reading), and arguably on his watch they turned over quite a lot of managers and accumulated quite a lot of very expensive players - but that sort of goes to the point that he's not really in charge and ultimately recruitment is the job of the manager. I assume Pulis was very much the main man, as Dyche would be here.

Hammond definitely ticks an awful lot of boxes from our perspective. I suppose the biggest question with him is whether he's willing to relocate (one of the reasons football people become a DoF is because its a more stable job, so its a longer term thing).

Jakubs Tash · Post by **Jakubs Tash** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:27 pm

It really is incredible the amount of posters on this thread who have written off Warburton before he has even been employed by the club. Especially when most don't even know what the role entails or what Warburton's qualities are.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:33 pm

Can we not hire an agent to work in recruiting?

Clearly I know nothing about how it works, but wouldn't someone with a knowledge of agents' workings and contacts both in the UK and abroad, would be of a huge benefit to the club. I don't know what kind of role this would be, a not-quite-agent not-quite-coach type role, or if an agent would even want that type of position at 1 club.