Warburton the preferred choice as Technical Director

[Tall Paul]

Three thousand, four hundred and sixty two.

All overwhelmingly supported the foreign approach.

[houseboy]

Can we not hire an agent to work in recruiting?

Clearly I know nothing about how it works, but wouldn't someone with a knowledge of agents' workings and contacts both in the UK and abroad, would be of a huge benefit to the club. I don't know what kind of role this would be, a not-quite-agent not-quite-coach type role, or if an agent would even want that type of position at 1 club.

With the potential earnings of a football agent I can't see for a second an agent wanting to tie himself to one club. An agent only needs a handful of clients in the PL/Championship bracket to earn himself a very decent living. And he doesn't have a 'boss' telling him what to do. I could of course be wrong but having worked in self-employed 'sales' type roles (which is what an agent is in essence) it is very often better to be 'freelance' than employed.

[houseboy]

You're right, it was 3,400, the other two were his wife and son, cheeky boy.

[ClaretTony]

But, given Warburton's record in management since (Notts Forest and Rangers), is he really the right person for the job
Someone can correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Brentford Chairman let Warburton go because he wanted someone to come in to do a similar role which Warburton rejected

Warburton's record in management isn't key to this appointment, it's his record away from player management which has previously been good.

[Woodleyclaret]

Nicky Hammond ex Reading keeper did a great job at talent spotting and helping turn a team with average 5,000 gates into a Premier League club.A great choice
But I am concerned that Brendon Flood is still connected with our club.

[BigChaCha]

But, given Warburton's record in management since (Notts Forest and Rangers), is he really the right person for the job

Name me a technical director, director of football, talent spotter, chief transfer negotiator, recruitment advisor, chief football officer, head of recruitment, or executive director of football currently in work in the Premier League who was a top, top class manager.

[ClaretTony]

Name me a technical director, director of football, talent spotter, chief transfer negotiator, recruitment advisor, chief football officer, head of recruitment, or executive director of football currently in work in the Premier League who was a top, top class manager.

Most of them have never managed football clubs, this is an entirely different role that a number on this and the previous thread don't seem to get.

[Cleveleys_claret]

Article regards Mike Rigg. From reading this and how he conducts his business he would seem to be a perfect fit

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pr ... y-transfer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cleveleys_claret]

+

Warburton's record in management isn't key to this appointment, it's his record away from player management which has previously been good.

Not disputing this as I dont know his background. But at Brentford didnt he follow a system the chairman implemented therefore not really having much say in signings, and also had McPartland doing that job at both if not all 3 of his clubs? Brentfrod, Forest and Rangers. And lets be truthful how many of them Rangers signings have gone onto better things, they signed players for the now knowing they could change the side each season with the money they had.

Understand he was manager then but what experience does he have compared to Hammond and Rigg who have carried out this type of role for years and you would expect to have built up a decent network of clients/contacts within the game.

Also if it is his experience in this specific role is it not several years since he has last carried out the role? surely he is only going back to this as no clubs will touch him as a manager after the debacle at Rangers where he fell out with virtually every player

[Rick_Muller]

Article regards Mike Rigg. From reading this and how he conducts his business he would seem to be a perfect fit

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/pr ... y-transfer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From reading that I dont want him anywhere near our club...! He was at Rovers FFS...! then had billions to play with for player recruitment at City, and since then been struggling at QPR, no thanks from me.

...what would I know eh

[Cleveleys_claret]

From reading that I dont want him anywhere near our club...! He was at Rovers FFS...! then had billions to play with for player recruitment at City, and since then been struggling at QPR, no thanks from me.

...what would I know eh

It was more the way he went about his business in a cloak and dagger manner that I felt would fit us well. Also surely his contacts in the game could hardly be matched

[DCWat]

Not sure why the technical director necessarily needs a wealth of European knowledge / experience. Butterworth is presumably that man.

[Dark Cloud]

In fairness reading that Rigg sounds like the kind of guy who would understand the money constraints (or otherwise) at a club and the parameters he's working within and tailor his scouting/targets accordingly. He sounds extremely thorough.

[jojomk1]

Warburton's record in management isn't key to this appointment, it's his record away from player management which has previously been good.

And exactly what was his record away from player management

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

To summarise if we don’t appoint Hammond then we are in trouble. Also we don’t need people like Flood on the board of directors. Such wasted talent on this messageboard.

[MRG]

Isn't the point here in your first few lines? You've reached a sweeping conclusion about his strengths and weaknesses and contacts, based on limited knowledge of him?

Isn't the chairman better placed to make that judgement?

With respect to the chairman, recruitment at the club recently offers us very little confidence. The facts are that we are looking for somebody who can expand our international recruitment and Warburton has no experience of this.

The fact that we have paid big bucks for a recruitment agency to come back with a shortlist with the front runner being the managers mate sums up the sorry state that we are in with all things recruitment. We should of just got Dyche to WhatsApp him!! If we were hoping to bring somebody like Warburton on board we would of approached him without the costly agency being involved. Everything about this screams that we hoped for more but will have to make do. It all feels very familiar!!

[Cleveleys_claret]

With respect to the chairman, recruitment at the club recently offers us very little confidence. The facts are that we are looking for somebody who can expand our international recruitment and Warburton has no experience of this.

The fact that we have paid big bucks for a recruitment agency to come back with a shortlist with the front runner being the managers mate sums up the sorry state that we are in with all things recruitment. We should of just got Dyche to WhatsApp him!! If we were hoping to bring somebody like Warburton on board we would of approached him without the costly agency being involved. Everything about this screams that we hoped for more but will have to make do. It all feels very familiar!!

Agree in part if Warburton gets the job. As for standard of Rigg and Hammond I would have thought they were far more suited to the role than Warburton with much more experience and better contacts. Both have experience with building youth teams and infrastructure of clubs on differing levels which to my knowledge Warburyon has no experience of.

Does come across as a job for the boys though if Warburton gets it. No way would he be better suited than at least the 2 candidates that we know of.

[claretspice]

With respect to the chairman, recruitment at the club recently offers us very little confidence. The facts are that we are looking for somebody who can expand our international recruitment and Warburton has no experience of this.

The fact that we have paid big bucks for a recruitment agency to come back with a shortlist with the front runner being the managers mate sums up the sorry state that we are in with all things recruitment. We should of just got Dyche to WhatsApp him!! If we were hoping to bring somebody like Warburton on board we would of approached him without the costly agency being involved. Everything about this screams that we hoped for more but will have to make do. It all feels very familiar!!

How do you know that we will have paid a recruitment agency if we appoint Warburton? Might it not be the case that the agency only get paid if we appoint someone they put forwards, so if Dyche has proposed Warburton, we don't pay the finders fee?

Regarding international recruitment - we're not appointing a chief scout, we're appointing a Technical Director to whom a chief scout will report. This idea that its the job of a technical director to come with a wad of ready-to-go signings from the continent strikes me as a bit naïve.

[boatshed bill]

So (insert who you like) isn't head of recruitment, isn't head of scouting, doesn't coach, what's left to do?

[claretspice]

So (insert who you like) isn't head of recruitment, isn't head of scouting, doesn't coach, what's left to do?

As I said earlier - I think the role of director of football is to be in charge of all football "operations" - i.e. dealing with agents on contract negotiations, building the scouting network and overseeing talent identification at all levels, dealing with transfer negotiations day to day, implementing youth development strategy. It's a background role. In effect, you're creating 3 direct reports to the board of directors - your Chief Executive (who is basically responsible for everything not directly related to football), the first team manager, and the new director of football. It ought to allow Dyche to focus on what he is best at - building and drilling a football team and managing first team footballers.

So - he does essentially head of our scouting and recruitment function - he's just not responsible for doing the actual scouting.

It's not rocket science.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Agree in part if Warburton gets the job. As for standard of Rigg and Hammond I would have thought they were far more suited to the role than Warburton with much more experience and better contacts. Both have experience with building youth teams and infrastructure of clubs on differing levels which to my knowledge Warburyon has no experience of.

Does come across as a job for the boys though if Warburton gets it. No way would he be better suited than at least the 2 candidates that we know of.

How do you know they have better contacts??

[claretspice]

So (insert who you like) isn't head of recruitment, isn't head of scouting, doesn't coach, what's left to do?

As I said earlier - I think the role of director of football is to be in charge of all football "operations" - i.e. dealing with agents on contract negotiations, building the scouting network and overseeing talent identification at all levels, dealing with transfer negotiations day to day, implementing youth development strategy. It's a background role. In effect, you're creating 3 direct reports to the board of directors - your Chief Executive (who is basically responsible for everything not directly related to football), the first team manager, and the new director of football. It ought to allow Dyche to focus on what he is best at - building and drilling a football team and managing first team footballers.

So - he does essentially head of our scouting and recruitment function - he's just not responsible for doing the actual scouting.

It's not rocket science.

[boatshed bill]

It's not rocket science.

No need to patronise, it was meant as a light-hearted remark.

[MRG]

How do you know that we will have paid a recruitment agency if we appoint Warburton? Might it not be the case that the agency only get paid if we appoint someone they put forwards, so if Dyche has proposed Warburton, we don't pay the finders fee?

Regarding international recruitment - we're not appointing a chief scout, we're appointing a Technical Director to whom a chief scout will report. This idea that its the job of a technical director to come with a wad of ready-to-go signings from the continent strikes me as a bit naïve.

You are missing the point completely. If we wanted Warburton we would if contacted him without the need of an agency. That fact that we employed a top agency suggests that we were hoping for something other than one of Dyche’s mates But once again we appear to of come up short on attracting the type that we were hoping for.

In relation to the international scouting it seems that Flood see the role of the new appointment being to enhance that side of things. I see no evidence in Warburtons history of doing that.

[Safron]

By the time we appoint a technical director,the January transfer window will be closed lol

[claretspice]

You are missing the point completely. If we wanted Warburton we would if contacted him without the need of an agency. That fact that we employed a top agency suggests that we were hoping for something other than one of Dyche’s mates But once again we appear to of come up short on attracting the type that we were hoping for.

You're assuming it was a foregone conclusion that Warburton was going to get the job. I see no problem with us getting a recruitment company to bring us the broadest pool of candidates possible, but then appointing someone who got referred to us separately if they happen to be the best candidate.

In relation to the international scouting it seems that Flood see the role of the new appointment being to enhance that side of things. I see no evidence in Warburtons history of doing that.

How deeply have you analysed what he did as Sporting Director at Brentford? In any event, why does anyone need to have specific experience of setting up a European scouting network, to be the best qualified person to take responsibility for our scouting and recruitment as a whole, both European and domestic? Is being good at being a sporting director not the main qualification, and aren't those on our interview panel best placed to decide who has the best CV overall?

[MRG]

You're assuming it was a foregone conclusion that Warburton was going to get the job. I see no problem with us getting a recruitment company to bring us the broadest pool of candidates possible, but then appointing someone who got referred to us separately if they happen to be the best candidate.



How deeply have you analysed what he did as Sporting Director at Brentford? In any event, why does anyone need to have specific experience of setting up a European scouting network, to be the best qualified person to take responsibility for our scouting and recruitment as a whole, both European and domestic? Is being good at being a sporting director not the main qualification, and aren't those on our interview panel best placed to decide who has the best CV overall?

In all honesty I’m not even getting into a long debate on this with you. If I give you the opportunity to post wordy posts all evening I’m playing right into your hands.

My opinion is that we hoped for somebody better than Warburton but didn’t attract what we hoped for so are going to settle for less which is similar to the recent transfer window

[Cleveleys_claret]

How do you know they have better contacts??

Well one has worked with City and been around the world signing players. Hammond also did the job of building Reading and signing lots of Irish young players amongst others (i know we have that market cornered at the moment). Warburton has done nothing of note other than getting getting for a job done at Brentford which was actually the chairmans brainchild

[boatshed bill]

You're assuming it was a foregone conclusion that Warburton was going to get the job. I see no problem with us getting a recruitment company to bring us the broadest pool of candidates possible, but then appointing someone who got referred to us separately if they happen to be the best candidate.

Does anyone really think it will not be Warburton?

[Cleveleys_claret]

I will not question Mike Garlicks decision when he makes it though as he showed in appointing Dyche he knew his stuff. Just debate at the moment and at the end of the day the people in charge will do whats best for the club

[Cleveleys_claret]

Does anyone really think it will not be Warburton?

Nope he is nailed on I would think. Seems a waste of money and time employing an agency to give us names when we know who is getting the job

[claretspice]

In all honesty I’m not even getting into a long debate on this with you. If I give you the opportunity to post wordy posts all evening I’m playing right into your hands.

My opinion is that we hoped for somebody better than Warburton but didn’t attract what we hoped for so are going to settle for less which is similar to the recent transfer window

Let me avoid being wordy. That is not an opinion, it is speculation.

[claretspice]

Does anyone really think it will not be Warburton?

I don't think any of us really know, do we? We're going through a process, and what we've got is a Skysports article suggesting he's the favourite out of what is a very strong 3-man shortlist.

[claretspice]

Nope he is nailed on I would think. Seems a waste of money and time employing an agency to give us names when we know who is getting the job

If we paid an agency. Which we don't know.

[Cleveleys_claret]

If we paid an agency. Which we don't know.

Yes we do, its Nolan Partners a football recruitment specialist

[claretspice]

Yes we do, its Nolan Partners a football recruitment specialist

You've seen the terms of the retainer, and know exactly the basis on which they're engaged then, presumably? And are therefore 100% sure BFC didn't commit to paying them only if we engaged someone they proposed (rather than someone who applied directly)?

[Murger]

You've seen the terms of the retainer, and know exactly the basis on which they're engaged then, presumably? And are therefore 100% sure BFC didn't commit to paying them only if we engaged someone they proposed (rather than someone who applied directly)?

So they're working for free?

[MRG]

You've seen the terms of the retainer, and know exactly the basis on which they're engaged then, presumably? And are therefore 100% sure BFC didn't commit to paying them only if we engaged someone they proposed (rather than someone who applied directly)?

I take it that you are simply looking to disagree with everybody on everything tonight?

[Cleveleys_claret]

They arent going to do the work for us out of the goodness of their hearts. Job advertisement here, doesnt name us but that is us, Premier Football League Club

https://nolanpartners.com/current-roles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[claretspice]

Pretty common for recruiters to work on the basis they get paid a % of the salary of any person they introduce to the potential employer, who takes on the job. And equally common for that not to apply if they don't actually make the introduction of the successful candidate, because he comes to the attention of the employer by a different route. That's not working for free - it is payment by results.

That's not a question of disagreeing with everybody on everything, its a question of challenging some seemingly unsubstantiated assumptions in the hope they don't become common wisdom.

Worth remembering our chairman made his millions out of being rather good at the recruitment game. But the suggestion here appears to be he's a bit of an idiot who has paid a recruitment company to do nothing. Really?

[MRG]

My concern differs to that of Cleveleys... my concern is that I feel that we were hopeful that the recruiters could attract a particular type of person however if we appoint Warburton it could be suggested that we weren’t able to attract the type of person we hoped for even with the experts in this area searching on our behalf

[claretspice]

My concern differs to that of Cleveleys... my concern is that I feel that we were hopeful that the recruiters could attract a particular type of person however if we appoint Warburton it could be suggested that we weren’t able to attract the type of person we hoped for even with the experts in this area searching on our behalf

But as we discussed before, that's pure speculation and you've absolutely no evidence for that. It is equally possible that if - if - Warburton gets the job, its because he interviewed extremely well, and the detail of his CV that the interview panel had the opportunity to pick over made him the right fit for our role.

We don't know.

[MRG]

There is no speculation in that we hired a recruiting team which ‘if’ we appoint Warburton wouldn’t or shouldn’t of been needed with him and Dyche being buddies

[claretspice]

There is no speculation in that we hired a recruiting team which ‘if’ we appoint Warburton wouldn’t or shouldn’t of been needed with him and Dyche being buddies

So you'd have preferred the club to assume Warburton was the best available candidate, without actually going through a proper exercise with a recruitment team to verify it?

Or appoint an alternative candidate that a recruitment company came up with who wanted the job, even if we actually thought Warburton was the right man for the job, just because the recruitment company came up with the alternative candidate?

[Cleveleys_claret]

Personally like I said I am happy to go with Garlick on his decision. Maybe I am wrong but I worry if Dyche gets his mate then it will strengthen his hold on our club. Not knocking him but as seen with Wenger too much power can be a bad thing. He is our manager, nothing more (in my view). Yes his vision has allowed us to become something I never thought I would see but sometimes you need some objectivity. Banging of heads isnt always a bad thing. Different perspectives and all that. Maybe Mark Warburton is that man but personally cant see it

[taio]

The obvious question that springs to mind in the latest spat and unnecessary criticism of the club is why the f**k does it matter if the club is paying a recruitment agency?

[Cleveleys_claret]

So you'd have preferred the club to assume Warburton was the best available candidate, without actually going through a proper exercise with a recruitment team to verify it?

Or appoint an alternative candidate that a recruitment company came up with who wanted the job, even if we actually thought Warburton was the right man for the job, just because the recruitment company came up with the alternative candidate?

I agree to a point with you but no company invites seperate applications when using a recruitment company. Especially one which is in partnership with EFL and LMA in a trade which is pretty much a closed circle. Mike Garlick and Sean Dyche havent got the time for that surely.

A hypothetical question....if we did take outside applications and Warburton was one and he went down that route and got the job, could you imagine if lets say a Shelley Kerr or another female applied and didnt get an interview. Could you imagine the outcry. That is why you leave it up to the recruitment specialists to draw up a short list and do things with transparancy. Dont you? Maybe I am wrong ha ha

[MRG]

So you'd have preferred the club to assume Warburton was the best available candidate, without actually going through a proper exercise with a recruitment team to verify it?

Or appoint an alternative candidate that a recruitment company came up with who wanted the job, even if we actually thought Warburton was the right man for the job, just because the recruitment company came up with the alternative candidate?

Absolutely not. I’d rather that club decide what it is that they want from a TD, decide if they have the right person that they can approach directly, if not appoint a recruiter and stick to their desired requirements never deciding it’s easier/cheaper to settle for a less than ideal alternative. This may mean increasing salary etc but ultimately getting the person who matched the need of the club is the most important thing. This process can also be used for player recruitment.

[ontario claret]

What does a technical director do? He sits around and waits for the present manager to be fired, so that he can get the job.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

The insight the every day fan has into the inner workings of a football club these days is amazing!!