Alan Nixon - Heaton

TomtheClaret · Post by **TomtheClaret** » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:22 pm

What I find strange is whole team spirit has gone.
Rumours of Mee and tarky fall out. Heaton and Dyche.
Walters and Dyche. Ward and Dyche.
Mole in dressing room. Something clearly gone on.

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:32 pm

As I former defender I do wonder why we have gone from attacking the 1st ball to taking positions. Could it be fear of bookings? Lack of confidence? or change of tactic? Is it to benefit Joe Hart? I don't know. I think at time's we have been JUST that poor that it seemed about right so far as scorelines. It seems to be everything falling apart just when it seemed we had got a platform to show it could still be about a Football Club. Something has changed at the club and someone who knows what it is needs to put it right NOW. Anyone thinking that going down is EVER a good thing was not around in the 70's - 80' - 90's. Demolishing Spurs at White Hart Lane and being relegated at Crystal Palace... we were sure to bounce back... we did eventually, but I hope to not live long enough to go through that with the club again.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:36 pm

Just seen the 1st goal on MOTD. I really don't think it was Hart at fault, the defending was shocking. He did right staying on his line, I thought that at the time also

LongsideFacingUp · Post by **LongsideFacingUp** » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:48 pm

Top Claret wrote:Just seen the 1st goal on MOTD. I really don't think it was Hart at fault, the defending was shocking. He did right staying on his line, I thought that at the time also

I strooooongly disagree sir.

It was a high, looped cross that was headed in from inside the six yard box.

Embarrassing.

Nick Pope catches that and no one would even notice there was any danger.

But Joe Hart makes a few 'tv camera' saves and people think he's good.

He's crap. I hope he had a terrible Christmas.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:07 am

NL Claret wrote:The real reasons for this mess are....

Sean Dyche, recruitment team, all round complacency where finishing 7th was used as nothing more than an excuse. Hope this helps

Edit: oh and players like Jack Cork falling off a cliff, Dyche partially to blame for not recognising the decline.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:10 am

SGr wrote:Sean Dyche, recruitment team, all round complacency where finishing 7th was used as nothing more than an excuse. Hope this helps

I suppose he got us in this mess in the first place.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:15 am

NL Claret wrote:I suppose he got us in this mess in the first place.

Don’t quite understand what you’re getting at. It’s not about where we’ve come from - never has. It’s about where we’re going.

Too many don’t accept that.

NL Claret · Post by **NL Claret** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:19 am

SGr wrote:Don’t quite understand what you’re getting at. It’s not about where we’ve come from - never has. It’s about where we’re going.

Too many don’t accept that.

Where are we going? Do tell.....

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:24 am

NL Claret wrote:Where are we going? Do tell.....

Down.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:12 am

Today was the first time that i've noticed that Everton didn't put a man on the keeper, and we all know why, Hart doesn't leave his line so they don't need to.

Foreverly Claret · Post by **Foreverly Claret** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 am

Absolutely right claretdandy ...I can't remember him coming for any crosses yesterday but no cover for first goal .Lots of chat round here ( near Leeds ) that Heaton is off to Leeds...I think he'll be in our team on Sunday

KlyBfc · Post by **KlyBfc** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:07 am

I was told by (what I believe to be) a very reliable source back in July that Heaton wanted to leave early in the summer as he didn’t want to play second fiddle to Pope, he wanted to be the number 1 and felt he wouldn’t be anymore at Burnley. His agent had a lucrative deal at Stoke lined up should Butland have left (which many thought likely) that didn’t materialise and nor did another move.
I believe (this bit is only opinion) this is why Dyche brought Hart in (he thought Tom would go / wasn’t up for the fight) and has then stuck by Hart since, Toms alleged attitude / relations with SD and little interviews have suggested he still desires to move.
If this is the case why would SD put Tom back in the team when before yesterday JH has been decent and especially in the previous 4 games

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:08 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:I strooooongly disagree sir.

It was a high, looped cross that was headed in from inside the six yard box.

Embarrassing.

Nick Pope catches that and no one would even notice there was any danger.

But Joe Hart makes a few 'tv camera' saves and people think he's good.

He's crap. I hope he had a terrible Christmas.

Still disagree.. We had 3 centre halfs and Vokes and we could not defend a simple cross into the box. Tarks was positioned near post with Gibson and Mee ball watching, awful defending.

Hart had no need to come off his line, his defence should have dealt with the problem. . Seaman at Arsenal for example never came of his line and neither does Heaton. Both good keepers

The problem is the defence, along with other things, we can't defend balls into the box and have not done all season.

Can agree he had a poor game though, I thought he should have done better with the majority of the other goals.

paulatky · Post by **paulatky** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:34 am

Expected goal stats yesterday had us winning the game by 1.71 goals to 1.49 goals.
To me that highlights Tarky’s glaring miss and the quality of the goalkeeping

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:54 am

paulatky wrote:Expected goal stats yesterday had us winning the game by 1.71 goals to 1.49 goals.
To me that highlights Tarky’s glaring miss and the quality of the goalkeeping

The expected goal stat is the biggest waste of space since Hendrick playing as a #10.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:04 am

Murger wrote:The expected goal stat is the biggest waste of space since Hendrick playing as a #10.

Oh yes, that's when we were getting good results last season.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:11 am

ClaretTony wrote:Oh yes, that's when we were getting good results last season.

If you think he's good as #10, then you're in a minority of 2.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:13 am

Murger wrote:If you think he's good as #10, then you're in a minority of 2.

Am I really? Thanks for your exhaustive survey on that. Very impressive to have carried it out so quickly.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:17 am

ClaretTony wrote:Am I really? Thanks for your exhaustive survey on that. Very impressive to have carried it out so quickly.

No problem.

Woonderbah · Post by **Woonderbah** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:27 am

LongsideFacingUp wrote:
It was a high, looped cross that was headed in from inside the six yard box.

Embarrassing.

Nick Pope catches that and no one would even notice there was any danger.

Totally agree.
The ball hung in the air for so long it was Hart's to claim.
Had that been a pass on the halfway line Pope would've been tempted to come and catch it.
The fact it was an uncontested header inside the six yard box is woefully embarrassing and set the tone for the rest of the game.
Not sure why the do-or-die team spirit has gone... But it clearly has and it's time for big decisions to be made.
Why would SD walk away from such a lucrative contract ?.. Because he's a pragmatic man of high principles who isn't getting the minimum requirement of maximum effort that his mantra demands.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:34 am

Murger wrote:The expected goal stat is the biggest waste of space since Hendrick playing as a #10.

You're even more wrong about expected goals as you are about Hendrick.

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:32 am

Tbf if I was Heaton and I had the chance to go somewhere like Leeds I would snap their hand off. He doesn't owe us anything after how Dyche has treated him and we are a sinking ship whilst Leeds are heading in the opposite direction.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:40 am

Tall Paul wrote:You're even more wrong about expected goals as you are about Hendrick.

So you think Hendrick is effective as a #10?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:58 am

Murger wrote:So you think Hendrick is effective as a #10?

I think the team was effective when he was playing in that role in the first half of last season.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:06 pm

He's never been effective in that position. Might aswell be playing with 10 players.

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:06 pm

What’s all this “how Dyche has treated Heaton”? Heaton would have been off in the Summer and we got a younger keeper with vastly more experience. Heaton has been a mard arse all season, perhaps the sooner he’s gone the better.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:08 pm

Murger wrote:He's never been effective in that position. Might aswell be playing with 10 players.

We did bloody well last season then if we were playing with 10 players for most of it.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:12 pm

Come on let’s have some common sense.
Hendrick is awful as a number 10 and never been effective in that role - persisting with him in that position has been one of Dyche’s failings.
However, Jeff as a midfielder is fine. He is a good player who should have been in the team in his preferred position a lot more than he has - especially with the loss of form and injuries we have had in midfield.

As for Hart - we need Pope back in our goals as soon as possible. Not because of some of the stupid comments on this thread about Hart being a poor keeper. That is just rubbish and ignorant. It’s simply because Nick Pope was one of the best keepers in the league and probably Europe last year....he might not save us from relegation but one thing for sure if we don’t play our best players we ain’t got a chance of surviving

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:15 pm

Burnley Ace wrote:What’s all this “how Dyche has treated Heaton”? Heaton would have been off in the Summer and we got a younger keeper with vastly more experience. Heaton has been a mard arse all season, perhaps the sooner he’s gone the better.

As club captain I feel that he should have been given the chance to prove himself. Must have been a real slap in the face that after Pope got injured Dyche brought Hart in.

Rammy1968 · Post by **Rammy1968** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:30 pm

Top Claret, did you ever play football, were you a defender or midfielder or striker. I ask because as a former defender I would of expected my goalkeeper to come and take the floated cross thus elevating the danger completely. We need Nick Pope fully fit as soon as possible a little bit like Obi-Wan Kenobi he is our only hope. Catch the ball and the game remains 0-0 and takes a different route.
Second balls are so difficult to defend and your keeper is there to command his six yard box anything in there is his/hers.
Shocking goalkeeping in my eyes

Burnley Ace · Post by **Burnley Ace** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:41 pm

jrgbfc wrote:As club captain I feel that he should have been given the chance to prove himself. Must have been a real slap in the face that after Pope got injured Dyche brought Hart in.

Perhaps because Heaton had already indicated that he wasn’t prepared to be 2nd to Pope and was looking to leave? It would appear that Dyche doesn’t trust Heaton anymore.

TomtheClaret · Post by **TomtheClaret** » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:44 pm

KlyBfc wrote:I was told by (what I believe to be) a very reliable source back in July that Heaton wanted to leave early in the summer as he didn’t want to play second fiddle to Pope, he wanted to be the number 1 and felt he wouldn’t be anymore at Burnley. His agent had a lucrative deal at Stoke lined up should Butland have left (which many thought likely) that didn’t materialise and nor did another move.
I believe (this bit is only opinion) this is why Dyche brought Hart in (he thought Tom would go / wasn’t up for the fight) and has then stuck by Hart since, Toms alleged attitude / relations with SD and little interviews have suggested he still desires to move.
If this is the case why would SD put Tom back in the team when before yesterday JH has been decent and especially in the previous 4 games

Heard that as well. Also that Heaton was mad as hell that dyche had been dangling a carrot that if he was fit before end of last season, he would get his place back to get chance to challenge for England spot.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:14 am

TomtheClaret wrote:What I find strange is whole team spirit has gone.
Rumours of Mee and tarky fall out. Heaton and Dyche.
Walters and Dyche. Ward and Dyche.
Mole in dressing room. Something clearly gone on.

The alarming one for me was when Marney was delighted to leave because the atmosphere had changed - the writing was on the wall then for Dyche

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:13 am

Vegas Claret wrote:The alarming one for me was when Marney was delighted to leave because the atmosphere had changed - the writing was on the wall then for Dyche

Tired of telling people on here when players were leaving and their interviews at new clubs cast the atmosphere here in not the best light. No players that had left previously had done interviews with thinly veiled digs at the club.

So many fans have had their heads in the sand this season from the last week of the transfer window. The whole SD is a legend and shouldnt go because he has done so much for us is scary. I truthfully foresee Lindegaard being our main keeper next year in the championship, Hart will seek a move, Pope is too good for that league and will get a big move, Heaton will be gone this window or the latest the next one. In 1 year we will have gone from 3 England keepers to none. Defour will go. Players like Tarkowski, gudmondsson, even Gibson and Vydra will seek moves due to not fitting in. Wells, Walters and Bardsley will go. How Long stays i dont know when he is constantly dropped.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:26 am

Vegas Claret wrote:The alarming one for me was when Marney was delighted to leave because the atmosphere had changed - the writing was on the wall then for Dyche

Please post a link to any quotes from Dean Marney saying as much.

You simply can't as they don't exist!

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:32 am

Making **** up keeps people entertained when we are not doing so well.

To be fair Spijed, you should know all that from your defence of the Brian Laws regime.

RVclaret · Post by **RVclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:35 am

Here’s some Hart v Pope stats from the half of this season for Hart and full season for Pope.

Save success %: 65.25 - 76.15

Punches: 5 - 18

High claims: 6 - 57

Sweeper clearances: 5 - 26

I think they are quite telling.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:37 am

RVclaret wrote:Here’s some Hart v Pope stats from the half way point of this season and last.

Save success %: 65.25 - 76.15

Punches: 5 - 18

High claims: 6 - 57

Sweeper clearances: 5 - 26

I think they are quite telling.

The high claim stat says it all, but it's nothing to do with where we are at all, it's all the defenses fault etc.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:39 am

The stats for shots on goal allowed is already 100+ higher than last season.

Thats 100 extra saves our keeper has to make.

Thats clearly not just the keepers fault.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:42 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:The stats for shots on goal allowed is already 100+ higher than last season.

Thats 100 extra saves our keeper has to make.

Thats clearly not just the keepers fault.

Not at all, I agree on that - that stat for me is the midfield and defence's fault, of course. I have said before, Hart is a great shot stopper - it's the other aspects of his game that make him the worst of our three 'main' (what a ridiculous notion, having 5 keepers) goalkeepers for me as I believe they are all good shotstoppers.

I can't pick anything out this season that Pope/Heaton would not have been able to do which Hart has done, but there are plenty of times in a match (sometimes not even leading to a goal being conceded) where I sit there and cannot help but think "Pope would have had that".

To be clear it's not some sort of 'our Tom' love in with me, I want Pope in the team not Tom Heaton. However, in the circumstances, I would be putting Tom in until Pope is fit.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:55 am

I think Pope is our best keeper, but he had a dream season last time.

He'd have to better that for us to stay up, which is a tough ask.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:05 am

If Hart was at fault for not coming out to collect or punch on the first goal it doesn’t explain why an opposition player gets a free header on the 6 yard line

JohnDearyMe · Post by **JohnDearyMe** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:06 am

Vegas Claret wrote:The alarming one for me was when Marney was delighted to leave because the atmosphere had changed - the writing was on the wall then for Dyche

Do you have a link to this interview? Would be interesting to read it in full

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:07 am

Or any links at all to back up all the other players who have said similar?

Internet must be full of these links, but weirdly enough not so full that google search can easily find them.

jedi_master · Post by **jedi_master** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:25 am

joey13 wrote:If Hart was at fault for not coming out to collect or punch on the first goal it doesn’t explain why an opposition player gets a free header on the 6 yard line

I don't disagree - nobody showed any authority/responsibility.

I do believe that the defenders are expecting a keeper to grab that, hence leaving it (as Pope would have, I think, at least have attempted the punch as a minimum). I think the polar differences in style between Hart and Pope are contributing to the poor decision making from the defence, that is not me absolving them of accountability mind as you're quite right, there SHOULD have been a challenge in there.

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:28 am

No matter who is in goal, they should never be expecting the keeper to claim it unless he calls. They should always be making a challenge.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:55 am

Nick Pope was brilliant last season WHEN the team were playing in the style we have known for 5 seasons.

They didn't bother to play against Arsenal and he conceded 5 goals, it could have been 10 that day.

Nick, Tom or Joe are not the issue at the moment but let's see a change on Sunday and if it is Tom, hope he has got over his last outing for the u23's.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:18 am

Our best player arguably last year was Nick Pope.
If we want to have any chance of staying up then we need to play are best players if we can get them fit.

I don’t think many people are saying that our position is solely down to Hart. Those that are are clearly wrong.

We need to perform a lot better in virtually all areas of the pitch. If we carry on as we are playing the same players then we will be gone by Easter.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:50 pm

Spijed wrote:Please post a link to any quotes from Dean Marney saying as much.

You simply can't as they don't exist!

2 mins 40, i'll await your apology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HFMShkBPs8

Goobs · Post by **Goobs** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:54 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:2 mins 40, i'll await your apology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HFMShkBPs8

He says he wasn't happy which is probably down to injury and therefore lack of game time. He doesn't specifically say the atmosphere at the club was bad.