REPORT: Four more goals conceded and another defeat

[ClaretTony]

West Ham v Burnley report

See link
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[Royboyclaret]

".......and there currently seems to be no explanation or solution to what has become a major problem....."

A very telling comment and my observation is that it's time someone came out and offered an explanation because the fans aren't stupid and can see something is seriously not right at the Club at the moment.

Sort it now, this week, whilst the situation is still repairable.

[Vegas Claret]

"With or without Defour though, we are not currently good enough in that central midfield area."

spot on

[Royboyclaret]

Let's be under no illusion, eight or nine goals could have been conceded in each of those last three games.

And in normal circumstances under Dyche that would not have happened. Something is very wrong at the moment.

[CleggHall]

Was last season a fluke, this season a nightmare?

[Silkyskills1]

[quote="Royboyclaret"]Let's be under no illusion, eight or nine goals could have been conceded in each of those last three games.

And it's just not the last three games. We've taken some hammerings since the season began but fortunately the scorelines have flattered us.

[Vegas Claret]

Wolves should have won by 4 or 5 for sure

[ClaretTony]

".......and there currently seems to be no explanation or solution to what has become a major problem....."

A very telling comment and my observation is that it's time someone came out and offered an explanation because the fans aren't stupid and can see something is seriously not right at the Club at the moment.

Sort it now, this week, whilst the situation is still repairable.

How can you come out and offer an explanation? It’s something that needs working on in training. What do you want someone to say?

[Spijed]

Wolves should have won by 4 or 5 for sure

I'm not too sure as it seems to be a recurring theme with Wolves that they seem to create chances every game but their strikers are less than useless.

[Spijed]

How can you come out and offer an explanation? It’s something that needs working on in training. What do you want someone to say?

No manager can really hang his players out to dry in public.

[Jamesy]

Thank you Tony, I am glad you have finally said we were awful. I said we were awful two weeks ago and you took issue with this. Worryingly I cannot see how Dyche is going to turn things around. In the two previous seasons when we had a bad run of results I always felt that Dyche would get us back on track and he did. Sadly I think he is destined to fail this season. I hope I am wrong.

[Vegas Claret]

I'm not too sure as it seems to be a recurring theme with Wolves that they seem to create chances every game but their strikers are less than useless.

yeah agree but surely that indicates if the strikers take those chances they score 3,4,5 every game. I for one expect them to go out in January and spend 50 million on strikers

[Royboyclaret]

How can you come out and offer an explanation? It’s something that needs working on in training. What do you want someone to say?

If the answer lay in something 'that needs working on in training', the problem would have been solved by now.

These hammerings have to stop because if they continue we are heading in only one direction.

[ClaretTony]

Thank you Tony, I am glad you have finally said we were awful. I said we were awful two weeks ago and you took issue with this. Worryingly I cannot see how Dyche is going to turn things around. In the two previous seasons when we had a bad run of results I always felt that Dyche would get us back on track and he did. Sadly I think he is destined to fail this season. I hope I am wrong.

Two weeks ago we were beaten by Man City & Jon Moss. You clearly have an issue with Sean Dyche, I’ve reported on yesterday’s game.

[ClaretTony]

If the answer lay in something 'that needs working on in training', the problem would have been solved by now.

These hammerings have to stop because if they continue we are heading in only one direction.

Why would they have been solved by now? And how do you expect problems like that to be resolved? Can only be on the training pitch.

[Quickenthetempo]

Westwood is the only midfielder capable of passing the ball forward in an attacking sense.

The players only win when all 11 have the game of their lives.

[ClaretTony]

Westwood is the only midfielder capable of passing the ball forward in an attacking sense.

The players only win when all 11 have the game of their lives.

I think the problem is in the midfield. Cork has been poor this season, as has Westwood. Personally I’d ditch any notion of playing 4-4-2 for now and get an extra midfield player in. Our two best players yesterday were in the back four. It’s out of touch midfielders that’s bringing the problems.

[TsarBomba]

A very telling stat from Tyrone Marshall on Twitter.

Burnley conceded 4 or more on only 5 occasions in Dyche’s first 257 games in charge.

We have now conceded 4 or more on 5 occasions in the last 20 games.

Like it or not, there has been a sea change, and there’s a reason why.

[Royboyclaret]

Why would they have been solved by now? And how do you expect problems like that to be resolved? Can only be on the training pitch.

In all of the manager's six year tenure we've barely once looked capable of a thrashing, until now.

All of which makes you think that the answer is outside of Dyche's control, the players are simply no longer responding to, or believing in, his instructions.

[Vegas Claret]

I think the problem is in the midfield. Cork has been poor this season, as has Westwood. Personally I’d ditch any notion of playing 4-4-2 for now and get an extra midfield player in. Our two best players yesterday were in the back four. It’s out of touch midfielders that’s bringing the problems.

who would be your lone striker ?

[Dy1geo]

I think now is the time for Dyche to pick his best side/formation and stick to it. Whilst we have been poor this season in odd patches we have been ok and we only have to play like that for longer periods in matches and we will start to get deserved results, but the constant changes must be affecting the players.
For what it’s worth I would go back to one up front and three in the middle, those three being Defour, Cork and Hendrick with Brady and JBG on the wings. I would look at bringing Bardsley back and stick with Mee, Tarks and Taylor with Hart in goal, Wood would be my sole striker.

[ClaretTony]

In all of the manager's six year tenure we've barely once looked capable of a thrashing, until now.

All of which makes you think that the answer is outside of Dyche's control, the players are simply no longer responding to, or believing in, his instructions.

Amazing comment

[ClaretTony]

who would be your lone striker ?

Right now it would be Sam. Would play JBG & Brady/Lennon in wide positions to get up alongside him but would just go for three midfielders. You’ll get the best from Defour as well I think. That’s just my view, I know a lot of people like 442 & I think that includes the manager.

[Royboyclaret]

Amazing comment

All my opinion, of course, to which I'm entitled.

But don't tell me something is not wrong in the camp at the moment and contributing to poor performances. There are some half-hearted displays from certain players and that is simply not acceptable.

[TsarBomba]

We can all hypothesise why we’ve been so poor in 2018.

Performances have been questionable for a long time, and we’ve accepted cr@p football, because points have been earned through dogged determination and a relentlessness to grind out results.

Now we’ve stopped grinding out those wins and points, then it’s perfectly reasonable for fans who pay a not inconsiderable amount to start questioning our style of football. The justification to play the way we do has disappeared.

Like all managers, maybe, just maybe, Dyche is coming to his natural end at BFC. It happens at every club, and we’re certainly no different. No-one is to blame particularly, it’s just a change is needed. A new voice in the dressing room. New ideas.

Time will tell, only if we carry on how we are, we’re going to fast run out of time.

[Quickenthetempo]

I think the problem is in the midfield. Cork has been poor this season, as has Westwood. Personally I’d ditch any notion of playing 4-4-2 for now and get an extra midfield player in. Our two best players yesterday were in the back four. It’s out of touch midfielders that’s bringing the problems.

We could say every department as underperformed.

The strikers have been below par and isolated. Only Vokes has put in a great CFs shift, holding the ball, linking play, and winning every header etc against B'mouth. If we play two the 2nd striker never creates enough chances to justify only two in centre midfield.

The centre midfield have been poor and are sideways passers specialists. Westwood at least tries to get assists. Defour will hopefully improve us but needs to be in a 3.

The defence is at it's worst since Dyche arrived. I don't think Mee and Tarky make a good partnership at all. Maybe Tarky can be excused if he's been hampered by an injury all year.
Full backs have been poor, but great improvement by Taylor yesterday.

We could do with a genuine box to box midfielder who eats ground up without getting in 2nd gear but we don't shop in France or Africa.

[jrgbfc]

Amazing comment

Thing is CT people know what they're seeing with their own eyes. How else can you explain us going from such a well drilled unit who looked like they'd be willing to run through a brick wall for each other to a disorganised rabble in the space of a few months. It feels like more than simply a bad run of form.

[ksrclaret]

Perhaps the players are just bored to tears with the horrible style? I know I am, so I wouldn’t blame them if they were.

[randomclaret2]

Quickenthetempo has a good point about the need for a big strong box to box midfielder. Was there a smaller midfield than Defour Lennon and Westwood anywhere in Professional football yesterday ?

[Jamesy]

Two weeks ago we were beaten by Man City & Jon Moss. You clearly have an issue with Sean Dyche, I’ve reported on yesterday’s game.

I didn’t just say we were awful against City, I quoted several games up to and including that game. However, yes I do have an issue with Dyche. The buck stops with him. He signed the players, he is supposed to coach and motivate them and set them up to compete against other teams of various abilities. Sadly he is failing miserably at present. I am not calling for his head though, I am just concerned that he isn’t going to be able to turn it around.

[Dy1geo]

Quickenthetempo has a good point about the need for a big strong box to box midfielder. Was there a smaller midfield than Defour Lennon and Westwood anywhere in Professional football yesterday ?

Perhaps not yesterday but Man City today had, Fernandinho, David Silva and Bernardo Silva today and did alright

[Royboyclaret]

Quickenthetempo has a good point about the need for a big strong box to box midfielder. Was there a smaller midfield than Defour Lennon and Westwood anywhere in Professional football yesterday ?

randomclaret......I think the root of the problem goes much deeper than that, the players no longer believe in these negative, cautious tactics anymore and as a result are not responding to his instructions.

For me, the turning point was at half-time in the home game against Huddersfield. They clearly were told to drop a further 10 or 15 metres back from the start of the second half and hold on to slender lead and, unsurprisingly, it failed big time. And this against a side who previously could hardly put a point on the board.

Same yesterday when we pulled the game back to 2-2, West Ham were rattled and there for the taking, but yet again we try to settle for a point. The players want more and who can blame them.

[Quickenthetempo]

if you speak to most football coaches/managers about when they have been successful they will often tell you when all 11 players go in the same direction and at least one player has been playing for them that was way above that standard.

We're struggling for both at the minute.

[NL Claret]

The midfield is weak. End of.

Defour Westwood fkin Hendrick and Cork....play them in any combination it's like shuffling deck chairs on the titanic.

Success was built on a strong middle with Jones / Marney then Barton/ Marney then 3 with fkin Hendrick Defour Cork.

[bobinho]

I think the problem is in the midfield. Cork has been poor this season, as has Westwood. Personally I’d ditch any notion of playing 4-4-2 for now and get an extra midfield player in. Our two best players yesterday were in the back four. It’s out of touch midfielders that’s bringing the problems.

Maybe it’s time to play Jeff hendrick in midfield? Mad, I know, but it’s just an idea. He’s been very good indeed when “filling in” in that role.

[bfcjg]

We don't win many second balls in midfield and therein lies the problem. Invariably centre halves win our all out punts and the opposition midfielders just win the ball either by being faster, stronger or taller. This is Dyches midfield so he has to take the blame.

[Jamesy]

We don't win many second balls in midfield and therein lies the problem. Invariably centre halves win our all out punts and the opposition midfielders just win the ball either by being faster, stronger or taller. This is Dyches midfield so he has to take the blame.

Agreed, he has got to take the blame. However, the million dollar question is can he sort it out?

[bfcjg]

Agreed, he has got to take the blame. However, the million dollar question is can he sort it out?

The January transfer window will be out most important one in years. Business needs to be done early. The board need to really invest and be decisive .

[BurnleyPaul]

So we’re pretty much sure then that it’s central midfield where we need to focus our attentions in January.

We pack the midfield until then with three central midfielders (perm from Cork, Hendrick, Westwood, Defour, McNeil) and pray that helps us.

We have to identify a solid player who can offer us an upgrade and give us some strength and leadership; hopefully work has already started on this. Personally I’d be looking at Drinkwater on an initial loan deal but with a permanent deal if we stay up. That’s. The type, and quality, I think we need.

[ksrclaret]

Haha! The January transfer window

Henri Lansbury isn’t getting a game at Villa, Graham Dorrans is injured and Dale Stephens is a regular for Brighton.

Which one will we target I wonder

[claretdj]

We need to get back to basics n the 1st step is getting the bloody club captain back in goal..

[Jamesy]

Haha! The January transfer window

Henri Lansbury isn’t getting a game at Villa, Graham Dorrans is injured and Dale Stephens is a regular for Brighton.

Which one will we target I wonder

You forgot to mention Dawson and Super Jay?

[Burtonwoodclaret]

I agree that midfield isn’t strong enough in comparison with the top quality opposition midfields , that we have met recently. However, from what I.ve seen, we give the ball away most often by speculative long balls from deep in our half. Most other teams seem to retain possession better by passing the ball around with patience trying to create an opening , usually through a wide player in space. This is what West Ham did yesterday . We only look good when we get the ball out through midfield to the wings high up the pitch. This happened early on in the Chelsea Game and to some extent in the 2nd half yesterday, but for most of the rest of those two games , we launched long balls either to the opposition or touch. I can’t believe that our players don’t have the skill to play passing football more consistently.

[randomclaret2]

Maybe they're not " encouraged " to pass the ball

[Somethingfishy]

Our midfield is powderpuff. Shrugged off the ball too easily..no pace..no strength..no ballwinner/enforcer. Add to that they can't seem to keep the ball under any sort of press. We concede posession far too easily and leave an already exposed defence under constant pressure.
We desperately need a physical figure in there. A Viera/Yaya Toure type player.

[Burtonwoodclaret]

Maybe they're not " encouraged " to pass the ball

I wrote something like that in my post then deleted it. I can’t really believe SD will instruct his players to launch the ball speculatively on most occasions.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Syaing we hoof it or play long ball is an easy and lazy excuse. Fact is we dont reallt. If they werent encouraged to keep hold of it, Tarkowski doesnt make the howler for arnautovics opener yesterday! He should have just wellied it.

[Vegas Claret]

Right now it would be Sam. Would play JBG & Brady/Lennon in wide positions to get up alongside him but would just go for three midfielders. You’ll get the best from Defour as well I think. That’s just my view, I know a lot of people like 442 & I think that includes the manager.

If we are going 4-5-1 I'd prefer Barnes just for the reason he tends to buy free kicks which relieves pressure, it's something I wish Sam was better at.

[Right_winger]

Dyche has been found out. His antiquated methods no longer have any effect and we used a lot
Of luck last season which we aren’t getting this season.

This Framework and Low Block pish needs to go.

Then again we all know that.. plus the players we have are just not good enough but who’s fault is that? He’s had plenty of transfer windows now so no excuses tolerated on that front from Dyche.

Hope he’s gone soon

[Spijed]

plus the players we have are just not good enough but who’s fault is that?

Is it actually possible to finish 7th if players aren't good enough?