Remembrance day

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:00 pm

Might get some stick for this but here goes.

Does anyone else remember when Remembrance Day was about quiet reflection? Now it seems to be more about who can prove they are remembering more. I understand that this year is significant but it’s not just this year, it’s been gradually building up over the past few years.

Trumpits at football grounds, massive poppy displays, people on social media more or less shouting “you better remember you pricks and if you don’t wear 50 poppies and respect everything about the army get out of my country!”.

Why does it appear to becoming more loud every year? Is it fear that the younger generation might not care as much?

Please don’t assume because of this post I disrespect anyone who has fought for our country because I don’t. The majority of my family has served in the army and my Grandad was in the RAF in WW2.

I just hope we can return to somber rememerence where wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence is enough

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:02 pm

Wow. How does it feel to hate your own country?

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:08 pm

Anyone fancy some peace babies?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:14 pm

Bosscat your post has been deleted

But as clearly suggested above I understand that this year is special but it isn’t just this year. It’s been steadily getting OTT rather than sober remembrance for several years now

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:15 pm

you a winger for Stoke inchy?

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:19 pm

claretblue wrote:you a winger for Stoke inchy?

No I am a jihadi

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:20 pm

Agree with the OP.

Increasingly I also think the day and the poppy is being adopted by those who don’t believe in the freedom that our ancestors fought for.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:23 pm

Perhaps it's simply another case of people pretending to celebrate something, just as people pretend to be offended by something, so they feel more significant? "Look at me, I'm really really celebrating Remembrance Day".

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:25 pm

Quiet reflection/stiff upper lip/sense of decorum/dignity etc.
All seen to have gone out of the window in the weeks after "The Queen of Hearts" failed to engage her seat belt. (I'm not suggesting that event caused it but the following days spotlighted the social trend).

Agreed- it's unfortunately now even impinged on poppy buying/Remembrance Day etc.
I think a big majority of people still take time for quiet reflection to consider the waste of life/suffering etc (and wouldnt dream of pulling others up for not wearing a poppy) but, like a lot of other things, displaying your apparent caring nature/virtue-signaling has become a significant aspect.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:30 pm

Our lads U10 football team will be wearing poppy armbands this weekend. He doesn't get a say in whether he wants to nor even fully understands why, its just been arranged on his behalf.

I'm not really bothered, I suppose its a nice thing to do really but it does make you think people are trying harder than in previous years to show they are 'remembering'

agreenwood · Post by **agreenwood** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:34 pm

dushanbe wrote:Our lads U10 football team will be wearing poppy armbands this weekend. He doesn't get a say in whether he wants to nor even fully understands why, its just been arranged on his behalf.

I'm not really bothered, I suppose its a nice thing to do really but it does make you think people are trying harder than in previous years to show they are 'remembering'

I had the same a few years ago. Coaching U9s. It was announced on arrival at an away game the week before Rememberance Sunday, that there’d be a minutes silence. I hastily tried to explain the purpose to a team of 8 year olds and they observed the silence. They looked completely bemused, but they stood quietly.

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:36 pm

It's an expression of Civil Religion, which is fine, but it is slightly disturbing to observe the lack of tolerance now for those who don't adhere to the established orthodoxy. It seems a bit like the same attitudes that led to the persecution of heretics in previous centuries, although of course nothing like that in scale.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:43 pm

Inchy wrote:Might get some stick for this but here goes.

Does anyone else remember when Remembrance Day was about quiet reflection? Now it seems to be more about who can prove they are remembering more. I understand that this year is significant but it’s not just this year, it’s been gradually building up over the past few years.

Trumpits at football grounds, massive poppy displays, people on social media more or less shouting “you better remember you pricks and if you don’t wear 50 poppies and respect everything about the army get out of my country!”.

Why does it appear to becoming more loud every year? Is it fear that the younger generation might not care as much?

Please don’t assume because of this post I disrespect anyone who has fought for our country because I don’t. The majority of my family has served in the army and my Grandad was in the RAF in WW2.

I just hope we can return to somber rememerence where wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence is enough

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one. It's turned into a 'who can be the most respectful' fest and there are now 'remembrance bullies' as you say. And what is it with the big poppies all over the lamp posts. It is in danger of becoming a fad rather than a festival of remembrance. Both my grandfathers fought in the first war and my father was in the second, I'm not likely to forget what they achieved, but I'm getting a bit short of patience with the whole party. The next thing (if they don't exist already) will be 'Happy Remembrnace Day' cards and they will be starting the whole thing off in June. I am hoping that the whole thing is just this year because of the century. My dad used to sit in front of the tv on remembrance Sunday with tears in his eyes but it kind of crept up on you at the time, now I am heartilly sick of it and it's nearly a week away yet. Commercialisation of the very worst kind I think.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:44 pm

Remembrance should be exactly that. A short moment of reflection for what as gone before. It should be personal and optional to yourself. But honoured at that moment

The poppy as become a fashion accessory to the glitterati. Z Listers on shows such as Strictly and the X Factor with a Huge glittering poppy stuck on the Gucci outfit they've spray painted on, look at me fcuking wnakers the lot of them.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Let's not forget the poor animals that lost their lives as well for no fault of their own please.

: image.png (163.11 KiB) Viewed 3687 times

Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:48 pm

Yep. This is me.

I'm considering not wearing one this year. I'll put some money in the poppy seller's box but might not take the poppy.

Only issue is the lady in the office who last year went around saying "where's your poppy?" to them that didn't have one on in the week leading up to the 11th last year. Can't be arsed getting into the debate at work.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:02 pm

houseboy wrote: And what is it with the big poppies all over the lamp posts.

To be fair this is an initiative promoted by the British Legion to mark the Armistice Centenary. I personally think it's fine to make a special effort this year, but I do agree with the basic point made by the OP, and many of the other points made on this thread that this important annual event has been progressively hijacked and distorted over recent years.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:41 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Let's not forget the poor animals that lost their lives as well for no fault of their own please.

image.png

You may laugh but there's people 'down the road' who lost loved ones in the Great War.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:03 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:To be fair this is an initiative promoted by the British Legion to mark the Armistice Centenary. I personally think it's fine to make a special effort this year, but I do agree with the basic point made by the OP, and many of the other points made on this thread that this important annual event has been progressively hijacked and distorted over recent years.

I hope you are right. It would be a shame if this moving tribute got hijacked by commercialism and fashion. Let’s forget after this year all the nonsense over what seems like the last few weeks and leave it for a week in November. What we don’t want is for people to be sick of it by Remembrance Sunday like we get with Christmas.

Brucefanclaret · Post by **Brucefanclaret** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:11 pm

My father was a rear gunner in WW2. He was lucky to survive, but what he went through affected him badly for the rest of his life. He never went to Remembrance Day parades as he found them too emotional. He would have hated all this “if you don’t wear a poppy,you don’t care” stuff. He fought for freedom was what he said to me - and that included the freedom to wear a poppy or not, parade or not.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:32 pm

Absolutely bob on, Bruce. My old man, an RAF india/Burma veteran would have hated the way the Remembrance Day stuff has been hijacked.
It should be personal, private reflection. This is still possible when gathered around the village war-memorial as many Bartonians will this Sunday.
The "office" woman demanding to know where her colleagues' poppies are needs to be told that her values stink. Soon.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:59 pm

It’s a bugle.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:53 pm

Inchy wrote:Might get some stick for this but here goes.

Does anyone else remember when Remembrance Day was about quiet reflection? Now it seems to be more about who can prove they are remembering more. I understand that this year is significant but it’s not just this year, it’s been gradually building up over the past few years.

Trumpits at football grounds, massive poppy displays, people on social media more or less shouting “you better remember you pricks and if you don’t wear 50 poppies and respect everything about the army get out of my country!”.

Why does it appear to becoming more loud every year? Is it fear that the younger generation might not care as much?

Please don’t assume because of this post I disrespect anyone who has fought for our country because I don’t. The majority of my family has served in the army and my Grandad was in the RAF in WW2.

I just hope we can return to somber rememerence where wearing a poppy and observing a minutes silence is enough

It's a 100 years since the end of the Great War. Veey special occasion.

But to your point. This is the way that we have moved. You know preparing for Christmas in June. And at least poppies javent been banned like some of our youg literati want to do. Fight for their freedom and that's the thanks.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:16 pm

houseboy wrote:Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one. It's turned into a 'who can be the most respectful' fest and there are now 'remembrance bullies' as you say. And what is it with the big poppies all over the lamp posts. It is in danger of becoming a fad rather than a festival of remembrance. Both my grandfathers fought in the first war and my father was in the second, I'm not likely to forget what they achieved, but I'm getting a bit short of patience with the whole party. The next thing (if they don't exist already) will be 'Happy Remembrnace Day' cards and they will be starting the whole thing off in June. I am hoping that the whole thing is just this year because of the century. My dad used to sit in front of the tv on remembrance Sunday with tears in his eyes but it kind of crept up on you at the time, now I am heartilly sick of it and it's nearly a week away yet. Commercialisation of the very worst kind I think.

You mean he didnt set up a camera in the living room and stage film himself crying watching it and share VHS Copies of it with everyone - 'This is me crying, please like and share!'?

claret2018 · Post by **claret2018** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:49 pm

Stayingup wrote:It's a 100 years since the end of the Great War. Veey special occasion.

But to your point. This is the way that we have moved. You know preparing for Christmas in June. And at least poppies javent been banned like some of our youg literati want to do. Fight for their freedom and that's the thanks.

"Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebt to Stayingup for stating what needed to be said. I am particulary glad that these lovely children are here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed the courage little seen in this day and age. "

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:52 pm

*Applause for Blazing saddles reference*

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:49 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:You mean he didnt set up a camera in the living room and stage film himself crying watching it and share VHS Copies of it with everyone - 'This is me crying, please like and share!'?

Ha ha no mate, he passed away long before the internet was born but I see your point. It's now about who can wear the biggest poppy, who can be seen 'remembering' most whether on tv or online, who can 'share' the best 'if you don't share this' online sh!te and just all round being bloody false.

I haven't bought a poppy in years, it's not from lack of respect or doing the wrong thing, it's because I don't feel the need to show the world that I appreciate what was done, I just appreciate it. As for the money I'm not sure who benefits that much now.For one thing I read an article years ago that said the money wasn't distributed equally to those in need and that ex officers received more than squadies, which is wrong if true (I don't know if it is). Secondly the two world wars involving conscripts are so far back that there can be surely no living survivors of the first war (they would have to be near a hundred and twenty years old) and the second war ended 73 years ago so there will be precious few left from then either (90+?). That leaves modern warfare. Obviously not everyone stays in for 20 years or more but as an example my next door neighbour was a Royal Navy Engineer for 22 years and retired at around 50 with a pension in excess of my wage and got a job as an engineer from which he has recently retired, he is, by his own admission, a long way from needy. My point is I suppose, and forgive me for seeming harsh because I don't mean to be, but just how many needy ex service men and women are there around these days? Most of the men who went to war in the two world conflicts didn't have much if any choice and were not career servicemen, they left the army with nothing (I know my dad did) and the poppy money was a help in some small way to many of these guys (don't think my dad got a penny though), but now I'm not convinced that this money is all that needed (I could be totally wrong). The buying and wearing of poppies now is, I think, more symbolic than practical and unfortunately that seems to be where the whole 'look at me I'm being respectful' thing is heading.

I hope no-one takes any of this wrongly (I suppose I am leavng myself open to possible 'outraged' remembrance bullies), it is just how I feel and I suppose it comes from a lot of years getting more and more cynical.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:29 pm

With the 100 years centenary in mind, I was thinking the other day that the following might make the ideal film script, but then changed my mind on the basis of it being barely believable -:

Captains his side to beat Liverpool in the 1914 FA Cup Final.

Then off to fight for his country in WW1 and suffers life threatening injuries.

Returns to captain his side to win the First Division Championship in 1920/21.

I suppose it would be too far fetched, but then again we know better because he was Ours.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:31 pm

Perhaps some of you might like to think on Sunday about Rennie Layfield a Burnley lad murdered by the IRA in Belfast 1972.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:59 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Perhaps some of you might like to think on Sunday about Rennie Layfield a Burnley lad murdered by the IRA in Belfast 1972.

We should remember all war dead I suppose, the civilians killed in air raids, those massacered, even the people on the other side because they too where human beings, everyone suffers because a tiny group of people (governments), say we should be at war with someone. As the late great Spike Milligan said when it was announced that we were at war with Germany, 'I loved the WE'.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:23 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:With the 100 years centenary in mind, I was thinking the other day that the following might make the ideal film script, but then changed my mind on the basis of it being barely believable -:

Captains his side to beat Liverpool in the 1914 FA Cup Final.

Then off to fight for his country in WW1 and suffers life threatening injuries.

Returns to captain his side to win the First Division Championship in 1920/21.

I suppose it would be too far fetched, but then again we know better because he was Ours.

Absolutely roy boy. What a story.

Might be on to something...

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:33 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:With the 100 years centenary in mind, I was thinking the other day that the following might make the ideal film script, but then changed my mind on the basis of it being barely believable -:

Captains his side to beat Liverpool in the 1914 FA Cup Final.

Then off to fight for his country in WW1 and suffers life threatening injuries.

Returns to captain his side to win the First Division Championship in 1920/21.

I suppose it would be too far fetched, but then again we know better because he was Ours.

Good one Roy

Brucefanclaret · Post by **Brucefanclaret** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:53 pm

houseboy - British Legion still provide shelter work opportunities for service personnel who are disabled, either mentally or physically as a result of their service. They actually make most of the road signs we see every day as we drive around, in their own workshops but also find work in ‘normal’ workplaces too. They run care homes for elderly and disabled servicemen and women too. So, still a need to support the organisation. I always donate, but like you, I don’t wear a poppy.

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 pm

conyoviejo wrote:Let's not forget the poor animals that lost their lives as well for no fault of their own please.

image.png

Please tell me that’s a wind up

Inchy · Post by **Inchy** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:14 pm

I personally think it’s disgusting that we have to donate to the British legion to ensure some of our ex servicemen are looked after

We pay enough taxes to ensure the government does this, but they don’t.
We should stop spending money on world ending Nukes and invest it In the future of the young lads being traumatised fighting pointless wars in the Middle East

Holmeclaret · Post by **Holmeclaret** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:12 pm

I wear the poppy over the Remembrance weekend but not before or after. The whole institution is in danger of becoming an exercise in narcissism. My grandad, a former Irish Guards RSM never wallowed in his own emotions and preferred dignity at all times.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:17 pm

houseboy wrote:Ha ha no mate, he passed away long before the internet was born but I see your point. It's now about who can wear the biggest poppy, who can be seen 'remembering' most whether on tv or online, who can 'share' the best 'if you don't share this' online sh!te and just all round being bloody false.

I haven't bought a poppy in years, it's not from lack of respect or doing the wrong thing, it's because I don't feel the need to show the world that I appreciate what was done, I just appreciate it. As for the money I'm not sure who benefits that much now.For one thing I read an article years ago that said the money wasn't distributed equally to those in need and that ex officers received more than squadies, which is wrong if true (I don't know if it is). Secondly the two world wars involving conscripts are so far back that there can be surely no living survivors of the first war (they would have to be near a hundred and twenty years old) and the second war ended 73 years ago so there will be precious few left from then either (90+?). That leaves modern warfare. Obviously not everyone stays in for 20 years or more but as an example my next door neighbour was a Royal Navy Engineer for 22 years and retired at around 50 with a pension in excess of my wage and got a job as an engineer from which he has recently retired, he is, by his own admission, a long way from needy. My point is I suppose, and forgive me for seeming harsh because I don't mean to be, but just how many needy ex service men and women are there around these days? Most of the men who went to war in the two world conflicts didn't have much if any choice and were not career servicemen, they left the army with nothing (I know my dad did) and the poppy money was a help in some small way to many of these guys (don't think my dad got a penny though), but now I'm not convinced that this money is all that needed (I could be totally wrong). The buying and wearing of poppies now is, I think, more symbolic than practical and unfortunately that seems to be where the whole 'look at me I'm being respectful' thing is heading.

I hope no-one takes any of this wrongly (I suppose I am leavng myself open to possible 'outraged' remembrance bullies), it is just how I feel and I suppose it comes from a lot of years getting more and more cynical.

Excellent post. My grandad was one who did suffer, pretty much all of his life after joining up at 15

. Struggled with extreme ill health as a result of being bombed (more than once) in the arctic until he died at 70. Hard to even comprehend.
In fairness I believe the british legion were exceptionally helpful for him in many ways.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:19 pm

If it's OK that the rain is too much for this guy, then it's OK that Matic doesn't wear a poppy

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:22 pm

Rubbish!

deanothedino · Post by **deanothedino** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:52 pm

Inchy wrote:I personally think it’s disgusting that we have to donate to the British legion to ensure some of our ex servicemen are looked after

We pay enough taxes to ensure the government does this, but they don’t.
We should stop spending money on world ending Nukes and invest it In the future of the young lads being traumatised fighting pointless wars in the Middle East

Those 'world ending nukes' are there to help prevent a WWIII, unless you'd prefer another world war to have to remember? And as long as we don't have to drop one, then they're doing their job.

Do agree with the OP. Remembrance Day shouldn't be a big show, it should be quiet reflection for those men, women and animals that gave their lives so that we can be free. Wearing a poppy should also be a choice, part of the freedoms we enjoy because of those who gave their lives.

Burnleybabe · Post by **Burnleybabe** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:07 pm

I have not read the full thread, as the opening post was enough for me to comment.

Young men signed up to defend their country, not knowing of the horrors they would encounter.

Would that happen now, No most are too bloody selfish to do it

Would it do them good, Yes give them some perspective on what really matters.

No it is never too much to Remember those poor souls that lost their lives fighting for our future.

One thing I think should be on the School curriculum is a visit to the Somme

Maybe then their sacrifice would be truly appreciated.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:28 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Rubbish!

??

TsarBomba · Post by **TsarBomba** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:54 pm

I sat down with my grandma about 5-6 years ago, and on her side, there were 26 family members who had served in either WW1 or WW2, in various roles from the RAF, Army, Royal Marines and Navy. My Grandpa was 18 when he served in the Navy from 1943-1945 in the Mediterranean.

I think about them often, and what they sacrificed for me, and yet, I don’t think I’ve ever worn a poppy.

I agree with the sentiments of the OP, but I can understand why such an effort is being made this year.

JohnMcGreal · Post by **JohnMcGreal** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:56 pm

Burnleybabe wrote:I have not read the full thread, as the opening post was enough for me to comment.

Young men signed up to defend their country, not knowing of the horrors they would encounter.

Would that happen now, No most are too bloody selfish to do it

Would it do them good, Yes give them some perspective on what really matters.

No it is never too much to Remember those poor souls that lost their lives fighting for our future.

One thing I think should be on the School curriculum is a visit to the Somme

Maybe then their sacrifice would be truly appreciated.

Sending young men to their deaths would do them good and give them some perspective?

Turn it in.

basil6345789 · Post by **basil6345789** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:00 pm

Imploding Turtle - another 's out of order actions nothing to do with Matic's, who's should not be defended.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:02 pm

basil6345789 wrote:Imploding Turtle - another 's out of order actions nothing to do with Matic's, who's should not be defended.

There's nothing wrong with Matic's decision. (I may be misunderstanding your post, so forgive me if i am)

bluelabrador16 · Post by **bluelabrador16** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:29 pm

January 2018

"At least 13,000 hero soldiers left HOMELESS after leaving the military - and almost all have PTSD

A Sunday People probe reveals how hundreds of Brit veterans are reduced to sleeping in doorways and begging from passers-by"

October 2017

"Almost £200 million of British taxpayers’ money has gone to supporting Syrian opposition groups"

BennyD · Post by **BennyD** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:41 pm

I'm in Mons this evening and tomorrow. My mate and I will be observing the minute's silence at the graveside of the first and last British soldiers killed in WW1. I very much doubt there will be any applause and I will make my feelings known (after) if there is. To me, it's all about reflection and appreciation of their sacrifice.

Pearcey · Post by **Pearcey** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:07 pm

I always wear a poppy to remember those who have died serving their country. I think about a lad who I grew up with dying in Afghanistan whilst I was serving there.

What I don’t like is people judging others for not wearing them. WW1 and 2 were fought to ensure we lived in a free world. Thank god we were successful!

While I don’t like all the fuss around the Poppy, I do like the fact that a lot of money is being raised for the British Legion, which is a fantastic organisation.

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:48 pm

Anyone that is interested can take a look at the Royal British Legions website - and see what they are doing with the funds raised today.

I've no problem buying a poppy and wearing it. I've also no problem with people that don't wear a poppy. (I do have problems with the tv that requires (almost) everyone who appears to be wearing a poppy from some date in October).

The guy at the desk beside me at work served in Afghanistan and, I think, Iraq. He's German, he served in the German army. He's also got friends who died in service.

Different people, different countries. No problem.