Fully Electric Cars

[No Ney Never]

How do those numbers work? You have a car costing (after government subsidy) £26,500, which will be worth £11,000 in three years. And to pay for it, you have to pay £304.75 x 36 = £10,971. Was there a big deposit to pay as well? Or have I missed something about PCP?

£5k deposit.

[Right_winger]

They can’t even get a smartphone to last a day never mind a car.

I can see the point for using them on short local/city driving but after that they are of absolutely no use.

[Taffy on the wing]

I worked for a company who manufacture and install EV chargers, both for the commercial and residential markets. This was back in 2013-14. One of the main themes of questioning I encountered was on the subjects of either the expected life of batteries and residual value of used EVs. Both of which of course back then there was no historical data to look so very difficult to answer. I do know that for example the Nissan Leaf suffers from massive depreciation - a car that costs on average £28k new after 3 years would be worth about £6.5k. Much of that is due to uncertainty about the longevity of battery life. Only time will reveal the answer to this once batteries start to fail, but with that sort of used value it would render the car an economic write off.

Things have moved on since then!
look at Tesla 300+ miles on a charge, Battery guaranteed for 10 yrs, nothing wears out!
The world is moving forward with or without Burnley!

[Taffy on the wing]

That is the big issue.

When I was young, we used to camping abroad. My dad drove and we cooked on camping gaz. When the bottle ran out, you just stopped and swapped it. Removable cells needed, for simple swap. The last thing we need is a world fill of charging points with lines of cars stacked up waiting all day!

Sad way of thinking! Stop reading the Daily Mail.

[Taffy on the wing]

Hi houseboy, agree, there is an issue with power supply. The country has nowhere near enough power generation plants - whatever technology is used - to be capable of charging lots and lots of battery electric vehicles, which is what would be required if we all went electric. And, if we did have enough power generation plants, there would still be the need to massively upgrade the power transmission capacity.

There have been concerns in last few winters about power shortages. I can't remember if this has happened, yet, but, the way it is managed is by what is known as "demand side response." (I think that is the phrase used). A number of large power consumers are signed up to switch off or reduce their power usage when total demand gets close to the peak. This might be a few large power heavy factories shutting down their machines for a couple of hours. It might also be a number of supermarkets reducing their power usage for refrigeration - while not letting the food spoil etc. Given these plans it would be an extreme situation before we'd experience power cuts in our homes etc. Of course, the large energy users who commit to demand side response pay less for their elec to make it worth their while.

Oh well let's just go back to burning tallow, and turning t' fields o'er wi' t' Oxen then!...problem solved.........**** progress VOTE TORY!
THA NOSE!

[houseboy]

Hi houseboy, agree, there is an issue with power supply. The country has nowhere near enough power generation plants - whatever technology is used - to be capable of charging lots and lots of battery electric vehicles, which is what would be required if we all went electric. And, if we did have enough power generation plants, there would still be the need to massively upgrade the power transmission capacity.

There have been concerns in last few winters about power shortages. I can't remember if this has happened, yet, but, the way it is managed is by what is known as "demand side response." (I think that is the phrase used). A number of large power consumers are signed up to switch off or reduce their power usage when total demand gets close to the peak. This might be a few large power heavy factories shutting down their machines for a couple of hours. It might also be a number of supermarkets reducing their power usage for refrigeration - while not letting the food spoil etc. Given these plans it would be an extreme situation before we'd experience power cuts in our homes etc. Of course, the large energy users who commit to demand side response pay less for their elec to make it worth their while.

It is problematic isn't it? I have also wondered about the topsy turvy way things are dealt with. Example: many motorways now have no lighting after certain times, presumably this is because of conserving energy (along with saving money no doubt, which may even be the main reason, I don't know). Whatever the reason there must be some concerns over safety on unlit motorways but if it is done to conserve energy then so be it. However if you go into Accrington (or Burnley or anywhere else for that matter) at weekend when Tesco or Asda are closed you will still see massive signs on the roof blazing away needlessly. Now I know that lighting takes a lot less energy than say heating or refrigeration but the principle is there. Surely a quiet word with these companies would be a good thing as no-one needs to know where these places are when they are shut (and that is assuming there are strangers wondering around at these times who don't know where they are anyway).

Just a thought.

[IanMcL]

Sad way of thinking! Stop reading the Daily Mail.

Not sad at all. I am looking forward to an all electric world. I am simply pointing out thay even if wr all had Teslas and the current super charge, we would still need to queue for fuel for 30 mins. Just think of the throughput at a garage, in a couple of minutes. Hence the point made.

As for the Daily Tory, that really is an insult!

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Just had a trundle around in a Renault Zoe, first time driving a fully electric vehicle.

I'm impressed with it and would consider getting one.

[NRC]

I have a BMW i3. I've often wondered what it actually sounds like outside it. I found out a couple of nights ago as I stepped into the road to cross to go into a local bar, and my wife, driving the car, nearly ran me down!

My favorite bit though is it looks sooooo incapable, but if the speedsters out there want to get in front of me it simply glides away from them without effort, and the look on their faces is priceless

[deanothedino]

At some point the government will cotton on and start sorting out a proper charging network etc.
There's plenty of work to be done though.

Maybe they'll do it when they've finished ensuring the cities have better mobile phone networks.

They'll have to sort our electricity network first because it won't be able to support vast numbers of electric cars being charged quickly.

[Sutton-Claret]

I have a BMW i3. I've often wondered what it actually sounds like outside it. I found out a couple of nights ago as I stepped into the road to cross to go into a local bar, and my wife, driving the car, nearly ran me down!

My favorite bit though is it looks sooooo incapable, but if the speedsters out there want to get in front of me it simply glides away from them without effort, and the look on their faces is priceless

I was following a pretty fast moving Tesla round the country roads round North Yorkshire - as soon as we hit a long straight we both floored it. The rate of speed with which he left me for dead was hilarious - almost comic like

[IanMcL]

I have a BMW i3. I've often wondered what it actually sounds like outside it. I found out a couple of nights ago as I stepped into the road to cross to go into a local bar, and my wife, driving the car, nearly ran me down!

She was waiting for you, knowing she had the jump on you! Quiet assassin!

[IanMcL]

I was following a pretty fast moving Tesla round the country roads round North Yorkshire - as soon as we hit a long straight we both floored it. The rate of speed with which he left me for dead was hilarious - almost comic like

Good to know the roads are safe from idiots!

[No Ney Never]

It's not the cost of a electric car or network of charging points I'm worried about in the not too distant future, it's the price of converting my house to a flat roof so I can land the drone/'flying car' that will provide my daily commute to work.
Those I've been viewing online don't have much storage space at the moment and the supermarket doesn't yet provide space to land, so I'll probably need a car for a while longer.
Will the top floor of multistorey car parks no longer be available to cars, but reserved only for drones?

[Herts Clarets]

Tesla have a new roadster planned for 2020. It will do 0-60 in 1.9 seconds and has a ridiculous amount of torque, something like 10klbs/ft. Cpmpare that to a hugely powerful Dodge that has 860. 200+ mph top speed and Elon Musk is going to offer a Space X pack which will feature rocket boosters to Increase acceleration, cornering and handling. Clearly sub 2 secs 0-60 just isn't quick enough.

[IanMcL]

Tesla have a new roadster planned for 2020. It will do 0-60 in 1.9 seconds and has a ridiculous amount of torque, something like 10klbs/ft. Cpmpare that to a hugely powerful Dodge that has 860. 200+ mph top speed and Elon Musk is going to offer a Space X pack which will feature rocket boosters to Increase acceleration, cornering and handling. Clearly sub 2 secs 0-60 just isn't quick enough.

Takes the fun out of Drag racing!

[NRC]

Takes the fun out of Drag racing!

Ru Paul vs Alyssa Edwards - 100m sprint, in heels! I'd pay to see that

[CnBtruntru]

As it is a 2016 model and meets current Euro 6 emissions (it uses ADBlu to lower the NO2 emissions) I will be sticking with it for a while.... it is exempt from the ULEZ charges proposed for London and other cities coming in in 2021.....

Plus I love it

I'm not jealous

[Paul Waine]

Oh well let's just go back to burning tallow, and turning t' fields o'er wi' t' Oxen then!...problem solved.........**** progress VOTE TORY!
THA NOSE!

Hi Taffy, I'm puzzled. We have a button for "like" but we don't have one for "I don't understand the connection between my post and your response."

Can you enlighten me?

Thanks.

[No Ney Never]

Bump

[clarethomer]

dsr wrote:
Charging needs to improve so that they're near enough as quick to charge as they are to fill with petrol. Whether that's by recharging or by swapping batteries, doesn't really matter. I dare say it'll happen.
How lomg do you spend filling your car?

I spend 2-3 seconds plugging my car in and going in the house after my last journey and then in the morning spending another 3 seconds unplugging. - 6 seconds a charge.

I don't have to worry about making payment, queuing at counters nor having smelly hands or looking for gloves... I don't have to think about planning my journey to account for a stop at a fuel station before I go somewhere.

Other than that - I can see why filling my ICE is better than an EV....

[KateR]

They are great for reducing your carbon footprint if you imagine that all the electricity you charge them with doesn't come from coal fired power stations. And the lithium for the batteries isn't mined from third world countries, producing massive amounts of toxic waste in the process

It's great in terms of where you are coming from however if you do a fairly in depth analysis of carbon over the life cycle of the ICE Vs EV the EV still beats the ICE by about 50% roughly. For me it is the rare earth minerals, mining and factories that are the failure when you try to equate the two as the change means an enormous build up in mining/factories/technology advances, while simultaneously in so many places reducing the refineries.

Refineries have so many useful by products, that as a population we might not have the right alternative today, so the change over thankfully will take decades and as one increases the other decreases and we can look to technology to fill the gap

However, carbon footprint is not an issue the way you present it in the UK, for example you power may be supplied from 100% renewable, unlikely in these days you will have power from a source which is 100% coal fired in the western world, perhaps China is an issue but hopefully they are also working to change.

[dsr]

I spend 2-3 seconds plugging my car in and going in the house after my last journey and then in the morning spending another 3 seconds unplugging. - 6 seconds a charge.

I don't have to worry about making payment, queuing at counters nor having smelly hands or looking for gloves... I don't have to think about planning my journey to account for a stop at a fuel station before I go somewhere.

Other than that - I can see why filling my ICE is better than an EV....

Yes, for people with private driveways who only go on long trips to places with charging points, they're fine. But it's like digital radio - the nonsense of saying (as the government has said for some time) that when 50% of the country can get DAB, they will abolish analogue, as if the other 50% doesn't matter. For some people electric is more convenient. For others it isn't. Electric cannot fully replace petrol if only 50% of the population can reasonably use it.

Incidentally, it must be a heck of a long time since you had a petrol or diesel car. The position has changed a lot since you last used petrol stations - they are all over the place now. I think I can honestly say that I have never planned a journey for a stop at a fuel station, because there are so many fuel stations nowadays that you don't have to. I have occasionally confirmed in my mind that I will be passing one on my way, but I've never (I don't think) had to change my route.

[PeterWilton]

By the end of the 20s all the major car manufacturers will be producing solid-state battery EV cars and that's when we'll see the shift from internal combustion to EV that we've been hoping for for the last 20 years. Lithium-ion is just too inefficient to be the battery tech that sparks the revolution. It can still be very good compared to internal combustion powered cars, but that makes them expensive.

Not that it matters. We've been far too late to take climate change seriously so who gives a **** now?

[clarethomer]

Yes, for people with private driveways who only go on long trips to places with charging points, they're fine. But it's like digital radio - the nonsense of saying (as the government has said for some time) that when 50% of the country can get DAB, they will abolish analogue, as if the other 50% doesn't matter. For some people electric is more convenient. For others it isn't. Electric cannot fully replace petrol if only 50% of the population can reasonably use it.

Incidentally, it must be a heck of a long time since you had a petrol or diesel car. The position has changed a lot since you last used petrol stations - they are all over the place now. I think I can honestly say that I have never planned a journey for a stop at a fuel station, because there are so many fuel stations nowadays that you don't have to. I have occasionally confirmed in my mind that I will be passing one on my way, but I've never (I don't think) had to change my route.

We have an ICE car in the house and last time I used a petrol station was the Sainsburys one in Colne in Feb. Spent 5 mins queuing to get to the pump. Then had to fill up - card machine on the pump wasn't working. Had to then queue in the shop and then had to queue to get back onto the main road. I had to fill up on the way back from work because I knew that I wouldn't have time in the morning going to work and didn't fancy getting up earlier.

That is just one example of why I say that in my 6 months of driving my EV - I find charging a breeze and as the infrastructure grows - it will only get easier.

[dsr]

We have an ICE car in the house and last time I used a petrol station was the Sainsburys one in Colne in Feb. Spent 5 mins queuing to get to the pump. Then had to fill up - card machine on the pump wasn't working. Had to then queue in the shop and then had to queue to get back onto the main road. I had to fill up on the way back from work because I knew that I wouldn't have time in the morning going to work and didn't fancy getting up earlier.

That is just one example of why I say that in my 6 months of driving my EV - I find charging a breeze and as the infrastructure grows - it will only get easier.

And all of that is still irrelevant to the idea that electric cars as thery stand can come anywhere near replacing petrol. (They obviously haven't in your own house, let alone in the wide world. )

You can come up with all the reasons in the world why electric cars are better for you. It doesn't make a ha'porth of difference to the fact that electric cars, as they are now, cannot replace (and still couldn't even with vast infrastrucutre investment) the convenience and practicality of petrol cars.

[CombatClaret]

They are great for reducing your carbon footprint if you imagine that all the electricity you charge them with doesn't come from coal fired power stations. And the lithium for the batteries isn't mined from third world countries, producing massive amounts of toxic waste in the process

A great example of the perfect being made the enemy of the good.

Also interesting we've never heard a peep out of people pointing out the environmental impact of plates and windows over the last few decades, given that the ceramics and glass industry was the primary consumer of Lithium up until about a eight years ago.

[keith1879]

It's great in terms of where you are coming from however if you do a fairly in depth analysis of carbon over the life cycle of the ICE Vs EV the EV still beats the ICE by about 50% roughly. For me it is the rare earth minerals, mining and factories that are the failure when you try to equate the two as the change means an enormous build up in mining/factories/technology advances, while simultaneously in so many places reducing the refineries.

Refineries have so many useful by products, that as a population we might not have the right alternative today, so the change over thankfully will take decades and as one increases the other decreases and we can look to technology to fill the gap

However, carbon footprint is not an issue the way you present it in the UK, for example you power may be supplied from 100% renewable, unlikely in these days you will have power from a source which is 100% coal fired in the western world, perhaps China is an issue but hopefully they are also working to change.

Seems sensible....I disagree on the issue of "might be supplied from 100% renewable " though. Until we reach the point where every single kwh consumed is produced by renewables it is always the case that plugging something in will cause some fuel to be burnt somewhere (mostly gas these days).

[clarethomer]

And all of that is still irrelevant to the idea that electric cars as thery stand can come anywhere near replacing petrol. (They obviously haven't in your own house, let alone in the wide world. )

You can come up with all the reasons in the world why electric cars are better for you. It doesn't make a ha'porth of difference to the fact that electric cars, as they are now, cannot replace (and still couldn't even with vast infrastrucutre investment) the convenience and practicality of petrol cars.

The only reason we haven't gone full EV is because of Covid and we are rarely using the ICE but will be used when the EV is already in use. Once we get through this and life returns a bit more to normal where our car use will go up - we will go full EV.

I haven't claimed they can replace ICE vehicles at the moment but I think you will find that in 10 years that they will become more convenient for drivers with the investment in infrastructure. 10 years time there range on a EV will commonly be way above where they are now.

With the average commute being less than 30 miles on average in the UK, I will stand by that fact that with better infrastructure for people to charge overnight, or whilst at work, it will become more inconvenient in 99% of times.

[KateR]

Seems sensible....I disagree on the issue of "might be supplied from 100% renewable " though. Until we reach the point where every single kwh consumed is produced by renewables it is always the case that plugging something in will cause some fuel to be burnt somewhere (mostly gas these days).

You can specifically ask for 100% renewable if you want, many do.

https://www.consciouscreatives.co.uk/en ... companies/

you also have to understand Carbon Credits and how they work, if you have a gas fired power station but you add a process to the flue gases to remove CO2 & Nox, then you are given carbon credits for doing this, if you then use the CO2 somewhere else to make something, you get more credits, if you can send the CO2 to a CCUS for example for storage you get credits. While mentioning renewables I don't just mean wind/solar but I can see where that is confusing, obviously solar can not produce during the evenings, wind only can produce when the wind is right, to little or to much stops that, therefore renewable are only top up to the grid.

Nuclear is not a renewable in a sense for most but it is an efficient power producers 24 hours a day without producing carbon in the form of CO2 and therefore considered a carbon free power source, since the UK has nuclear, it is very difficult to know exactly where your power emanates from unless again you specifically ask for 100% renewable power but it will almost certainly have a high percentage of low carbon emissions at the source regardless in today's world.

[Rileybobs]

And all of that is still irrelevant to the idea that electric cars as thery stand can come anywhere near replacing petrol. (They obviously haven't in your own house, let alone in the wide world. )

You can come up with all the reasons in the world why electric cars are better for you. It doesn't make a ha'porth of difference to the fact that electric cars, as they are now, cannot replace (and still couldn't even with vast infrastrucutre investment) the convenience and practicality of petrol cars.

I’d say that the majority of car owners could make the switch to an electric vehicle without any inconvenience or impracticality.

[Rileybobs]

Mods, Can we merge the two electric vehicle threads please?

[Bosscat]

Mods, Can we merge the two electric vehicle threads please?

3 threads I think Electric cars has become the new Politics/Covid

[Rileybobs]

3 threads I think Electric cars has become the new Politics/Covid

Someone bumped an old thread, absolutely no idea why.

[Caballo]

They'll have to sort our electricity network first because it won't be able to support vast numbers of electric cars being charged quickly.

Not quickly. At all! Despite the evangelism of one or two on here, we've a long way to go yet. A national infrastructure of charge points whilst a challenge is not insurmountable, producing enough electricity is a far greater problem.

[Rileybobs]

Not quickly. At all! Despite the evangelism of one or two on here, we've a long way to go yet. A national infrastructure of charge points whilst a challenge is not insurmountable, producing enough electricity is a far greater problem.

That's not true, certainly not according to National Grid who estimate just a 10% increase in energy demand if everyone switched to electric vehicles. This would be less energy demand than we had in 2002.

Seems like a lot of people are looking for problems which don't exist. I've seen similar on the threads on here about cashless societies. People just don't like change.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... les-busted

[Caballo]

That's not true, certainly not according to National Grid who estimate just a 10% increase in energy demand if everyone switched to electric vehicles. This would be less energy demand than we had in 2002 when us.

Seems like a lot of people are looking for problems which don't exist. I've seen similar on the threads on here about cashless societies. People just don't like change.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/jo ... les-busted

Well I guess they'd know. Not seen that piece before, I have seen a number of internal automotive industry papers and it is their concern.

[JohnMac]

Bloody weird things. Hardly any noise at all. Very disconcerting when 8 pints in

You don't even need a drink to be nearly flattened by one of those monstrosities, nearly got wasted at St Peters' Centre on my way to Cardiac Rehab!
At least a Batsman knew Michael Holding was running in, these things should be called 'Whispering Death'.

[Damo]

A great example of the perfect being made the enemy of the good.

Also interesting we've never heard a peep out of people pointing out the environmental impact of plates and windows over the last few decades, given that the ceramics and glass industry was the primary consumer of Lithium up until about a eight years ago.

The lack of complaints from people regarding the use of coal for making weapons before the industrial revolution is similarly interesting

[dsr]

I’d say that the majority of car owners could make the switch to an electric vehicle without any inconvenience or impracticality.

If that's so, it's a pretty small majority. You are definitely excluding all those who live in terraced houses, for a start off. You're also excluding all those who live in flats who don't have a designated parking space.

And of course, the majority of car owners individually could make the switch, perhaps, but if the majority of car owners all did make that switch, they would be inconvenienced by lack of electricity at key times.

I think you are missing the point I am making. The technology and infrastructure as it is now will not stand a ban on petrol engined cars. In 2030, it might. But by 2030, I suspect they will need to have replaced the current slow charging with something that works more like current refuelling - something quick. Switchable batteries, super fast charging, hydrogen fuel, whatever. Long slow charging will never be convenient for a large minority of drivers.

[dsr]

I haven't claimed they can replace ICE vehicles at the moment but I think you will find that in 10 years that they will become more convenient for drivers with the investment in infrastructure. 10 years time there range on a EV will commonly be way above where they are now.

With the average commute being less than 30 miles on average in the UK, I will stand by that fact that with better infrastructure for people to charge overnight, or whilst at work, it will become more inconvenient in 99% of times.

Nor have I claimed that they can't replace ICE vehicles in 10 years' time.

[Rileybobs]

If that's so, it's a pretty small majority. You are definitely excluding all those who live in terraced houses, for a start off. You're also excluding all those who live in flats who don't have a designated parking space.

And of course, the majority of car owners individually could make the switch, perhaps, but if the majority of car owners all did make that switch, they would be inconvenienced by lack of electricity at key times.

I think you are missing the point I am making. The technology and infrastructure as it is now will not stand a ban on petrol engined cars. In 2030, it might. But by 2030, I suspect they will need to have replaced the current slow charging with something that works more like current refuelling - something quick. Switchable batteries, super fast charging, hydrogen fuel, whatever. Long slow charging will never be convenient for a large minority of drivers.

I didn’t say it was a big majority. 42% of houses are detached or semi-detached. It stands to reason that these houses will have driveways or some form of in-curtilage car parking. 29% of houses are bungalows or flats. I would hazard a guess that a decent proportion of people who live in flats don’t have cars. 29 % of houses are terraced, and finding suitable places to provide charging points to these houses is of course an issue.

However, almost all new-build housing developments are providing a charging point to each dwelling, whether they be terraced, semi, detached or flats. So this is becoming less of an issue as time moves on.

Re electricity demand, where are you getting your information from about a lack of available electricity during peak times? I’ve already posted a link from the National Grid above which suggests that if everyone switched to an electric vehicle overnight there wouldn’t be an issue with capacity.

I agree that infrastructure needs to be developed, which is one of the reasons why the target has been set for 2030 rather than 2021. My point is that the majority of drivers, I believe, could switch their current car for an electric car without any major inconvenience.

[dsr]

Re electricity demand, where are you getting your information from about a lack of available electricity during peak times? I’ve already posted a link from the National Grid above which suggests that if everyone switched to an electric vehicle overnight there wouldn’t be an issue with capacity.

If that's the article that said you can come home from work at teatime, plug your car in to charge it, and find that at midnight nothing has happened because the "smart charger" decided it would be smart to wait until midnight - that's an inconvenience.

Like you say, and so do I - the infrastructure as it stands cannot cope with switching to electric now. By 2030, it might - especially if all car drivers have their dedicated charging points outside their own houses by then; though I still don't see how that would work, especially in terraced houses with two cars.

[Rileybobs]

If that's the article that said you can come home from work at teatime, plug your car in to charge it, and find that at midnight nothing has happened because the "smart charger" decided it would be smart to wait until midnight - that's an inconvenience.

Like you say, and so do I - the infrastructure as it stands cannot cope with switching to electric now. By 2030, it might - especially if all car drivers have their dedicated charging points outside their own houses by then; though I still don't see how that would work, especially in terraced houses with two cars.

I don’t think our views differ massively. But you seem to be putting barriers up whereas I think that all of the issues surrounding electric vehicles can be overcome. It’s progress, and it’s for the greater good.

I don’t think anybody is claiming that electric vehicles will be a viable solution for everybody, but we have 10 years of advancements to address the issues, that target date will then no doubt be extended and there will still be ICE vehicles on the road and available for purchase in used condition for a good number of years beyond that.

[KateR]

Lampposts are being used as charging points, so even on a terraced street, if they have lighting then cars can be charged relatively easily, it's certainly not as difficult as some are trying to make out. Although it is a moot point really because all drivers are never going to change 2021, the real discussion is around 2030 and the Gov edict, I for one support it entirely.

The edict will drive change during this decade, where as if it had stayed with the same requirements then the impetus for change would not have been there, this will drive large infrastructure and industry changes and bring more jobs, helping the economy as a whole.

[ClaretCraig]

Lampposts are being used as charging points, so even on a terraced street, if they have lighting then cars can be charged relatively easily, it's certainly not as difficult as some are trying to make out. Although it is a moot point really because all drivers are never going to change 2021, the real discussion is around 2030 and the Gov edict, I for one support it entirely.

The edict will drive change during this decade, where as if it had stayed with the same requirements then the impetus for change would not have been there, this will drive large infrastructure and industry changes and bring more jobs, helping the economy as a whole.

Do you live on this message board?

[clarethomer]

If that's the article that said you can come home from work at teatime, plug your car in to charge it, and find that at midnight nothing has happened because the "smart charger" decided it would be smart to wait until midnight - that's an inconvenience.

Like you say, and so do I - the infrastructure as it stands cannot cope with switching to electric now. By 2030, it might - especially if all car drivers have their dedicated charging points outside their own houses by then; though I still don't see how that would work, especially in terraced houses with two cars.

I have a smart charger.. We plug the car in on the last journey of the day and it’s always good to go for the first. My battery is usually at worst 50% and therefore it’s never a problem if I do need to nip out unplanned.

The smart charger allows me to get the cheapest electric when there is less demand on the grid. There is nothing wrong with the smart charger acting in the way you describe.

It won’t get to everyone having dedicated chargers outside your home as you quite rightly have pointed out, it would be impossible when you consider rows of terraced houses with multiple car households.

However if you look at ev cars with longer range than mine- I would be able to go 3-5 days between charges where it’s 2 currently for me.

There would be no difference to fuelling habits if you can’t home charge. You would fuel at a public destination charger - workplace or maybe even en EV station on route somewhere as by the time the sale of new ICE vehicles come in, infrastructure will be better.

Another technology that was being touted was wireless charge

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... ing-system

Not sure whether this will be a longer term replacement/alternative for needing on street cables which could be placed into parking spots or on roadside parking? It shows me enough that greater minds are looking to solve these problems that we foresee today.

The good news to a degree is that for those that value their ICE you can still drive them after this point so it’s not like 2030 will suddenly see no ice vehicles on the road but as they start getting banned from cities and high population areas, I can see today’s conveniences becoming less convenient for drivers of ICE.

There could also be other environmental factors like less cars required in the future as work from home becomes more the norm.

[Winstonswhite]

Battery swaps are the way forward. Takes two minutes. Nio have just completed their millionth in China.

[clarethomer]

Battery swaps are the way forward. Takes two minutes. Nio has just completed their millionth in China.

I think the idea in theory is right and maybe if you could do home charging from home you could do this charging yourself it would work. However due to the size of them and lack of space people have, from what I understand these have largely been dismissed by manufacturers for this and various reasons; such as standard battery connections and size/shapes in the vehicle.

Also, it would then come with EV Drivers having to pay a 'battery lease' type agreement if the Chinese model was to be followed.

Renault has an EV which was made cheaper by having a battery lease attached to it. Although it was just insurance that would get your batteries when they degrade below a certain point. They have now stopped offering this as they realise it's not a business model worth following and drivers were realising that there was very little need for this given how long batteries last and that long term you would have paid much more for the car.

As part of my research into the change to EV, I know that there are a number of factors which give concern because it is feels worlds apart from what you currently have to do when driving an ICE car. It does take a bit of a mindset change so no issues with anyone who is asking these questions because they are all the same questions most EV drivers have asked themselves at some point.

[Winstonswhite]

You don’t keep batteries at home. You go to a swap station as you would a petrol station.