Bloody weird things. Hardly any noise at all. Very disconcerting when 8 pints in

ZizkovClaret wrote:Bloody weird things. Hardly any noise at all. Very disconcerting when 8 pints in

As Batteries improve they are increasingly becoming the future... as soon as the charging infrastructure is improved....
Am thinking of putting a Charging point in my Garage and advertising charging....

They are great for reducing your carbon footprint if you imagine that all the electricity you charge them with doesn't come from coal fired power stations. And the lithium for the batteries isn't mined from third world countries, producing massive amounts of toxic waste in the process

Bosscat wrote:As Batteries improve they are increasingly becoming the future... as soon as the charging infrastructure is improved....
Am thinking of putting a Charging point in my Garage and advertising charging....

Charging needs to improve so that they're near enough as quick to charge as they are to fill with petrol. Whether that's by recharging or by swapping batteries, doesn't really matter. I dare say it'll happen.

Currently they are ****.
Do not go far enough on a charge, which in itself is less efficient than just burning fossil fuels.

The charging points are not being serviced and lots are not working.

An environmentalist wrote an article about her Nissan recently.

She had to go do a lecture and planned her trip knowing needed a charge on the way and on the way back.
She got went to a service station before she was going to run out and the charging points were not working, so she drove to the next one, which again was not working.

Someone came to collect her from where she was doing the lecture and she was 45 minutes late. Someone ran her back to the car and she spent three hours on the phone trying to get the chargers fixed.

In the end she got the RAC to rescue her car back home.
She is going to rent a petrol next time.

The future is a long way off.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... works.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Found it

We don’t use the car much down here now as the public transport is very good and just running the present one into the ground as it were. When it does peg out we will switch to the local car share club.

If we lived in an area without good public transport though I would be inclined to stay with petrol until these come along and are affordable https://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-eff ... n-cars.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and bypass the electric car.

Article on radio last week claiming they are an environmental disaster due to demand for lithium for batteries and the problems of disposing of batteries, which tend to end up in mountain size dumps in poor countries.

Damo wrote:They are great for reducing your carbon footprint if you imagine that all the electricity you charge them with doesn't come from coal fired power stations. And the lithium for the batteries isn't mined from third world countries, producing massive amounts of toxic waste in the process

Don't forget all the millions of spent batteries that will have to be disposed of in the future containing harmful chemicals..

At some point the government will cotton on and start sorting out a proper charging network etc.
There's plenty of work to be done though.

Maybe they'll do it when they've finished ensuring the cities have better mobile phone networks.

Solid-state batteries will replace lithium batteries. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Imploding Turtle wrote:Solid-state batteries will replace lithium batteries. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Solid state are lithium based are they not?

A load of bolloxcs and a dead end technology, hydrogen will be the fuel of the future. Electric in cars should be kept to starting them, lighting them and powering extras. Anyone buying an electric car is subconsciously bowing to peer pressure and the herd mentality rather than any doing any good to the planet. Like I said, it’s a load of bolloxcs.

Anyone remember when the government told us that Diesel cars were the better ‘greener’ option and gave people incentives to buy them?

Give it a few years and there will be a lithium battery tax.

No Ney Never wrote:

20180621_143811.jpg

Am thinking of getting one (Nissan Leaf or similar) for shopping and local trips, and use the Jag for Long Distance etc....

And, don't the batteries last approx 3 to 5 years and then they'll need replacing, and the cost of replacing the battery is similar to the cost of the replacing the car? So, basically they have no sell on value?

One can now buy toy vehicles that run on salt and magnesium. Don't know if it will catch on.

Foulthrow wrote:And, don't the batteries last approx 3 to 5 years and then they'll need replacing, and the cost of replacing the battery is similar to the cost of the replacing the car? So, basically they have no sell on value?

Spot on

Foulthrow wrote:And, don't the batteries last approx 3 to 5 years and then they'll need replacing, and the cost of replacing the battery is similar to the cost of the replacing the car? So, basically they have no sell on value?

I worked for a company who manufacture and install EV chargers, both for the commercial and residential markets. This was back in 2013-14. One of the main themes of questioning I encountered was on the subjects of either the expected life of batteries and residual value of used EVs. Both of which of course back then there was no historical data to look so very difficult to answer. I do know that for example the Nissan Leaf suffers from massive depreciation - a car that costs on average £28k new after 3 years would be worth about £6.5k. Much of that is due to uncertainty about the longevity of battery life. Only time will reveal the answer to this once batteries start to fail, but with that sort of used value it would render the car an economic write off.

I too think that Batteries will be superseded by Hydrogen Fuel Cell technologies in the future. I’d hold off on All Electric until the efficacy of that technology becomes more evident.

Am thinking of getting one next year but not convinced, as always with my car buying it will be on the day when I see it, have been know to leave home to buy a particular car and come back with a totally different make and model

I was told they are looking to have them make some noise when you drive the, not sure how realistic it is and whether you can chose your noise for certain models in the future. Love the noise my present car makes so would miss that if totally silent and part of the pros and cons when I do go to get one.

I'm sure I read somewhere, that they are designing roads that charge electric cars as you drive.

Foulthrow wrote:And, don't the batteries last approx 3 to 5 years and then they'll need replacing, and the cost of replacing the battery is similar to the cost of the replacing the car? So, basically they have no sell on value?

Hyundai have an 8 (eight) year warranty on their batteries.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:At some point the government will cotton on and start sorting out a proper charging network etc.
There's plenty of work to be done though.

Maybe they'll do it when they've finished ensuring the cities have better mobile phone networks.

Why should 'The Government' do it? Did they have a hand in the building of petrol stations? It should be a commercial venture, perhaps with some encouragement to get the ball rolling.

I'm still of the opinion that one day someone will find a way to use human waste... yes, powered from poo.
Everybody produces it, some more than others - imagine if cars, even houses ran off it.

I know there was a 'Poo bus' a couple of years ago, and I've no idea what happened with that.

Hipper wrote:Why should 'The Government' do it? Did they have a hand in the building of petrol stations? It should be a commercial venture, perhaps with some encouragement to get the ball rolling.

The government are pushing the improvement of broadband more than the actual broadband companies.

Also, there will need to be a vast improvement to the national grid, so the government will have to be involved at some point, hate to break it to you.

JTClaret wrote:I'm still of the opinion that one day someone will find a way to use human waste... yes, powered from poo.
Everybody produces it, some more than others - imagine if cars, even houses ran off it.

I know there was a 'Poo bus' a couple of years ago, and I've no idea what happened with that.

It's in Reading I think.

FactualFrank wrote:I'm sure I read somewhere, that they are designing roads that charge electric cars as you drive.

Basically doing the same as the phone charger I have for my Samsung phone... yes you are right Frank.

Also regarding battery life Hyundai * are offering 8 years at the moment... and as technology is moving at an almost exponential rate everything is almost becoming obsolete as soon as its been made.

* midmoorclaret sorry I see you gave already put that....

Poo-powered streetlight in the Malvern Hills:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rgy-waste-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bosscat wrote:Am thinking of getting one (Nissan Leaf or similar) for shopping and local trips, and use the Jag for Long Distance etc....

Whatever you do don't get rid of the Jag, it will be worth a fortune in years to come, dunno how you will run it without petrol though and they will never produce a battery big enough to run it

Sausage wrote:Poo-powered streetlight in the Malvern Hills:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rgy-waste-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a load of .........

It's quite possible that every streetlight could become a charging point in the future.

gawthorpe_view wrote:It's quite possible that every streetlight could become a charging point in the future.

If every car needs charging virtually every time it's used, they'd need to put in a lot more street lights. My street has about 6 lights for about 40 houses.

CnBtruntru wrote:Whatever you do don't get rid of the Jag, it will be worth a fortune in years to come, dunno how you will run it without petrol though and they will never produce a battery big enough to run it

Its a Deisel ha ha ha .....
And Jaguar are now building the I-Pace (and its gorgeous) a full Electric Vehicle that will cover up to 300 miles.... but as its around 65k plus to buy, its out of my price bracket at the moment... its up against the Tesla

Bosscat wrote:Its a Deisel ha ha ha .....
And Jaguar are now building the I-Pace (and its gorgeous) a full Electric Vehicle that will cover up to 300 miles.... but as its around 65k plus to buy, its out of my price bracket at the moment... its up against the Tesla

I'm sure they will give you a decent trade in

CnBtruntru wrote:I'm sure they will give you a decent trade in

Still really awaiting the Tech to improve a bit more, but definitely looking at replacing the Wifes Citroen DS4 with an Electric Vehicle in the next few years, as it rarely travels above 30 miles radius.....

Damo wrote:They are great for reducing your carbon footprint if you imagine that all the electricity you charge them with doesn't come from coal fired power stations. And the lithium for the batteries isn't mined from third world countries, producing massive amounts of toxic waste in the process

May as well just light the coal fire, and start up the old banger then! EH?

dsr wrote:Charging needs to improve so that they're near enough as quick to charge as they are to fill with petrol. Whether that's by recharging or by swapping batteries, doesn't really matter. I dare say it'll happen.

Charging happens overnight at low peak electricity demand....most of this electricity goes unused anyway. They have to keep the grid running.

Taffy on the wing wrote:Charging happens overnight at low peak electricity demand....most of this electricity goes unused anyway. They have to keep the grid running.

That only works for people who can afford two cars and their own driveway. If you want to drive anywhere that is more than three hours round trip, or if you don't have off-road parking, you can't charge your car overnight.

(And I have my doubts about your science of electricity generation.)

FactualFrank wrote:I'm sure I read somewhere, that they are designing roads that charge electric cars as you drive.

They'll have to fill in all the potholes first

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The government are pushing the improvement of broadband more than the actual broadband companies.

Also, there will need to be a vast improvement to the national grid, so the government will have to be involved at some point, hate to break it to you.

The national grid have conducted studies into this and the most recent conclusion is that home charging on a vast scale isn't the way forward. Pilot schemes have identified - in extreme cases - voltage issues in local distribution where only five 3.5kW chargers have been connected at the same time (amongst about 130 houses). Clearly if you extrapolate this, then people aren't going to be able to switch their lights on, let alone boil a kettle.

The thinking now is rather than this, to provide thousands of fast charging forecourts around the country, of 3mW capacity capable of charging at a rate of around 150kW, bringing down the charge time to 75% to roughly 10 minutes in most current vehicles.

CnBtruntru wrote:I'm sure they will give you a decent trade in

As it is a 2016 model and meets current Euro 6 emissions (it uses ADBlu to lower the NO2 emissions) I will be sticking with it for a while.... it is exempt from the ULEZ charges proposed for London and other cities coming in in 2021.....

Plus I love it

Not had time to read all the posts on here so forgive me if it's been mentioned. It has been mentioned about the charging network being a bit dire but as with gas cars the network will surely improve but the worry for me is simply this: the power companies are continually telling us that we cannot sustain current usage without creating viable sources of renewable energy and every approaching winter it seems we are warned of possible power cuts (which to be honest don't seem to happen|). If this is the case is the drive (no pun intended) to electric cars not going to put even more strain on an overstretched resource?

Genuine queary as I honestly don't know.

dsr wrote:Charging needs to improve so that they're near enough as quick to charge as they are to fill with petrol. Whether that's by recharging or by swapping batteries, doesn't really matter. I dare say it'll happen.

That is the big issue.

When I was young, we used to camping abroad. My dad drove and we cooked on camping gaz. When the bottle ran out, you just stopped and swapped it. Removable cells needed, for simple swap. The last thing we need is a world fill of charging points with lines of cars stacked up waiting all day!

Bosscat wrote:Am thinking of getting one (Nissan Leaf or similar) for shopping and local trips, and use the Jag for Long Distance etc....

I have the Leaf 2.zero launch edition, got it beginning of March this year, brilliant car.
£304.75/month PCP with a guaranteed minimum value of 11k after 3 years.
This model is 31k new before any contributions if you were to buy, though prices start at 22k, comes with a 8 year/100,000 warranty on the battery. The experiment with the original model of renting the battery has been scrapped, it was a disaster, you buy the car you own the battery.
PCP works great as it gives me complete peace of mind, any issues (not had any) and it would be sorted by the dealer as its under warranty for the time I will have it. After 3 years I hand it back and drive away with the latest model. As battery technology continues to improve in both charging times and range achievable, as well as other improvements in the car, I benefit from regular upgrades.
The government contributed £4,500 and paid for the charger fitting at my house.
No road tax, no mot, no repair or maintenance costs, price of petrol and diesel doesn't affect me, cheaper insurance because of the number of safety features it has. As my employer has free charging points at work, it doesn't even cost me the price of electric. Quite simply, the £305/month is all I pay, happy days.

houseboy wrote:Not had time to read all the posts on here so forgive me if it's been mentioned. It has been mentioned about the charging network being a bit dire but as with gas cars the network will surely improve but the worry for me is simply this: the power companies are continually telling us that we cannot sustain current usage without creating viable sources of renewable energy and every approaching winter it seems we are warned of possible power cuts (which to be honest don't seem to happen|). If this is the case is the drive (no pun intended) to electric cars not going to put even more strain on an overstretched resource?

Genuine queary as I honestly don't know.

That's why the government needs to get to work on the national grid.

No Ney Never wrote:I have the Leaf 2.zero launch edition, got it beginning of March this year, brilliant car.
£304.75/month PCP with a guaranteed minimum value of 11k after 3 years.
This model is 31k new before any contributions if you were to buy, though prices start at 22k, comes with a 8 year/100,000 warranty on the battery. The experiment with the original model of renting the battery has been scrapped, it was a disaster, you buy the car you own the battery.
PCP works great as it gives me complete peace of mind, any issues (not had any) and it would be sorted by the dealer as its under warranty for the time I will have it. After 3 years I hand it back and drive away with the latest model. As battery technology continues to improve in both charging times and range achievable, as well as other improvements in the car, I benefit from regular upgrades.
The government contributed £4,500 and paid for the charger fitting at my house.
No road tax, no mot, no repair or maintenance costs, price of petrol and diesel doesn't affect me, cheaper insurance because of the number of safety features it has. As my employer has free charging points at work, it doesn't even cost me the price of electric. Quite simply, the £305/month is all I pay, happy days.

Win Win Win then no nay m8

No Ney Never wrote:I have the Leaf 2.zero launch edition, got it beginning of March this year, brilliant car.
£304.75/month PCP with a guaranteed minimum value of 11k after 3 years.
This model is 31k new before any contributions if you were to buy, though prices start at 22k, comes with a 8 year/100,000 warranty on the battery. The experiment with the original model of renting the battery has been scrapped, it was a disaster, you buy the car you own the battery.
PCP works great as it gives me complete peace of mind, any issues (not had any) and it would be sorted by the dealer as its under warranty for the time I will have it. After 3 years I hand it back and drive away with the latest model. As battery technology continues to improve in both charging times and range achievable, as well as other improvements in the car, I benefit from regular upgrades.
The government contributed £4,500 and paid for the charger fitting at my house.
No road tax, no mot, no repair or maintenance costs, price of petrol and diesel doesn't affect me, cheaper insurance because of the number of safety features it has. As my employer has free charging points at work, it doesn't even cost me the price of electric. Quite simply, the £305/month is all I pay, happy days.

How do those numbers work? You have a car costing (after government subsidy) £26,500, which will be worth £11,000 in three years. And to pay for it, you have to pay £304.75 x 36 = £10,971. Was there a big deposit to pay as well? Or have I missed something about PCP?

houseboy wrote:Not had time to read all the posts on here so forgive me if it's been mentioned. It has been mentioned about the charging network being a bit dire but as with gas cars the network will surely improve but the worry for me is simply this: the power companies are continually telling us that we cannot sustain current usage without creating viable sources of renewable energy and every approaching winter it seems we are warned of possible power cuts (which to be honest don't seem to happen|). If this is the case is the drive (no pun intended) to electric cars not going to put even more strain on an overstretched resource?

Genuine queary as I honestly don't know.

Hi houseboy, agree, there is an issue with power supply. The country has nowhere near enough power generation plants - whatever technology is used - to be capable of charging lots and lots of battery electric vehicles, which is what would be required if we all went electric. And, if we did have enough power generation plants, there would still be the need to massively upgrade the power transmission capacity.

There have been concerns in last few winters about power shortages. I can't remember if this has happened, yet, but, the way it is managed is by what is known as "demand side response." (I think that is the phrase used). A number of large power consumers are signed up to switch off or reduce their power usage when total demand gets close to the peak. This might be a few large power heavy factories shutting down their machines for a couple of hours. It might also be a number of supermarkets reducing their power usage for refrigeration - while not letting the food spoil etc. Given these plans it would be an extreme situation before we'd experience power cuts in our homes etc. Of course, the large energy users who commit to demand side response pay less for their elec to make it worth their while.