Sean Dyche now 4th longest serving manager

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Oh and for what it's worth, I happen to really like Howe as a manager, our first team was in a far better state when he left compared to when he took over the rebellious mob from Laws.

He's done a cracking job at Bournemouth, they appear to be a perfect match for whatever reason.
I just don't buy the fairytale guff.

[Cleveleys_claret]

Is someone still banging the "Fairytale" drum over Bournemouth?

Just wow, from someone who complains about the state of the game regularly, I wouldn't expect them to be championing that media driven fairytale angle.

You mean where a club spends money they dont have and cant afford payments like we did with Eagles?

[Cleveleys_claret]

Most clubs have spent more than they probably should in the pursuit of the riches of the Premiership. Not saying its right but fans want success and owners usually know if they can spend a bit and it doesnt work they can recoup their losses by selling or afford to cut their losses and walk away with no guilt as they arent proper fans. Unlike our board that in general and 99% of the time have our clubs best interests at heart

[ClaretTony]

Oh and for what it's worth, I happen to really like Howe as a manager, our first team was in a far better state when he left compared to when he took over the rebellious mob from Laws.

He's done a cracking job at Bournemouth, they appear to be a perfect match for whatever reason.
I just don't buy the fairytale guff.

I’ll give him a lot of credit for that. Laws tried to win them over with new deals, Howe just got them out.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You mean where a club spends money they dont have and cant afford payments like we did with Eagles?

Shush your mush, I'm not interested in any of your usual bile today.

[Stayingup]

Hard to see Howe or Dyche moving on anytime soon as cant believe either clubs would get rid of them.

Spurs or Arsenal look about the only clubs big enough to tempt Howe with the amazing job he's doing at the moment and Poch doesn't look to want to go anywhere and Arsenal seem to have found a good fir with their new Manager.

As for Dyche I cant see any Premier League clubs wanting him so for him to leave it would mean dropping down a division or getting us relegated both of which are unlikely in my opinion

Poch could go to Man U

[cricketfieldclarets]

Poch could go to Man U

So could howe

[Wokingclaret]

If he still has family in Bournemouth, he wont move back to Manchester

[mdd2]

I’ll give him a lot of credit for that. Laws tried to win them over with new deals, Howe just got them out.

Howe was told he had to save about £60k/week for the second season in the Championship hence the sale of Wade for ?£700k to Brum and the letting go of several of our Premier league squad including Eagles Mears for £3million Cort loaned out, Alexander, Carlisle, Caldwell as well as some of the poorer signings like Eckersley who I think was loaned out by Laws and then Eddie and Easton who left when OOC.
He also signed some crackers too.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Howe was told he had to save about £60k/week for the second season in the Championship hence the sale of Wade for ?£700k to Brum and the letting go of several of our Premier league squad including Eagles Mears for £3million Cort loaned out, Alexander, Carlisle, Caldwell as well as some of the poorer signings like Eckersley who I think was loaned out by Laws and then Eddie and Easton who left when OOC.
He also signed some crackers too.

Remember this. was fuming when mears and eagles were flogged. And then when danny fox had to go was thinking what has howe let himself in for.

Thankfuly he had an excellent eye for transfers.

God knows where we would be without trippier, mee, ings, austin, shackell, stanislas etc

We werent quite at the point we were when cotterill came in but we werent far off.

[Spijed]

God knows where we would be without trippier, mee, ings, austin, shackell, stanislas etc

I didn't think Stanislas had much impact for us, apart from fleeting performances.

[Dyched]

Because I am pointing out his good work started well before the Russian came in with a few quid. He started with them having just lost to Bournemouth and in League Two relegation zone. To get them from there to where they are now is a phenomenal achievement in 10 years.

Incidentally as pointed out above he hasnt spent THAT much more than us. And after starting with a much weaker squad than Dyche did.

Ultimately, good managers are generally trusted with more money. Just because Guardiola gets £ms to spend doesnt mean he is a bad manager. It means he has demonstrated he is capable of working with and spending it. Much like Howe has.

I don't see how him having a so called big budget is used as a stick to beat him with.

Ohh CFC you first need to learn that if any club in the world has dared to spend a penny more than Burnley it’s cheating y’know

[Spijed]

The point is that Bournemouth spending £15 million on a player is different to Burnley spending the same amount on a player.

As FFP isn't relevant, £15 million can be completely written off by Bournemouth if the player doesn't work out (IBE at £15 million a prime example) whereas we can't just shrug our shoulders and spend another £15 million, and another £15 million, and another £15 million if need be. Bournemouth can if they want to.

They have that safety net, we don't. Likewise paying £100k on Jermain Defoe has been written off by them.

[Dyched]

The point is that Bournemouth spending £15 million on a player is different to Burnley spending the same amount on a player.

As FFP isn't relevant, £15 million can be completely written off by Bournemouth if the player doesn't work out (IBE at £15 million a prime example) whereas we can't just shrug our shoulders and spend another £15 million, and another £15 million, and another £15 million if need be. Bournemouth can if they want to.

They have that safety net, we don't. Likewise paying £100k on Jermain Defoe has been written off by them.

They haven’t done that though.

Look at Howes favourable starting 11 for the PL seasons. Francis, Steve Cook, Daniels, Gosling, King, Wilson, Fraser, Lewis Cook, Arter, Stanislas, Ritchie I could go on. He spent big on Ake, Ibe, Defoe yes. But he hasn’t wrote them off and spent another £50m on replacements when they haven’t worked out. He’s given youngsters a chance. If the big signings haven’t worked he’s gone back to the players mentioned.

[Spijed]

They haven’t done that though.

Look at Howes favourable starting 11 for the PL seasons. Francis, Steve Cook, Daniels, Gosling, King, Wilson, Fraser, Lewis Cook, Arter, Stanislas, Ritchie I could go on. He spent big on Ake, Ibe, Defoe yes. But he hasn’t wrote them off and spent another £50m on replacements when they haven’t worked out. He’s given youngsters a chance. If the big signings haven’t worked he’s gone back to the players mentioned.

That's the point that is completely missed. The option is there if they want to. Signing Jermain Defoe on £100k pw doesn't make a single difference to their wage structure because they won't have one!

It's easier to be successful if you don't have to worry about finances since FFP is no longer applicable to clubs in the PL whereas we still have to be careful.

[cricketfieldclarets]

That's the point that is completely missed. The option is there if they want to. Signing Jermain Defoe on £100k pw doesn't make a single difference to their wage structure because they won't have one!

It's easier to be successful if you don't have to worry about finances since FFP is no longer applicable to clubs in the PL whereas we still have to be careful.

But we have spent just as much on Wells and Walters who offered zero.

£5m for Wells is £35k a week before his wages. Defoe was a much more logical signing, especially given his record the season prior and over his career.

[Dyched]

That's the point that is completely missed. The option is there if they want to. Signing Jermain Defoe on £100k pw doesn't make a single difference to their wage structure because they won't have one!

It's easier to be successful if you don't have to worry about finances since FFP is no longer applicable to clubs in the PL whereas we still have to be careful.

You made a point Bournemouth can spend £15m, £15m and again £15m but they haven’t.

Of course they’ll have a wage structure. Defoe on £100,000 a week to sit on the bench seems a pretty decent option when the equivalent is Wood at £15m on probably around half of what Defoe gets.

[Sleeping Cat]

Since being in the Prem Bournemouth have spent on a par with most similar clubs, including ourselves. But the focus in those swiss ramble blogs is on their spending pre premier league & the supposed fairy tale. They were spending more on wages in the championship than we were and we were in the premier league. That's Bournemouth. Not a big city club with 30k pus gates, or a club recently relegated enjoying their parachute payments but a club which only a few years earlier had buckets around the ground collecting spare change to avoid administration.

Howe has done a fantastic job at Bournemouth and continues to do so. The money injected by their investor gave the club a platform to bring Howe back (they matched his salary at Burnley) and then gave Howe a platform to work with. He brought players in wisely and forged an team with an identity. He has also developed the players he has acquired which he also deserves credit for.

They gambled big to get where they are though, at a big risk. Wages at 270% of club turnover at the time of promotion, which is quite irresponsible and the type of activity FFP was brought into stop.

Fairytale? Not for me.
Model Club? Not really.
Good manager? Without a doubt.

[Spijed]

Wages at 270% of club turnover at the time of promotion, which is quite irresponsible and the type of activity FFP was brought into stop.

Eye watering figures that some will conveniently ignore!

[ClaretTony]

They gambled big to get where they are though, at a big risk. Wages at 270% of club turnover at the time of promotion, which is quite irresponsible and the type of activity FFP was brought into stop.

Fairytale? Not for me.
Model Club? Not really.
Good manager? Without a doubt.

The chairman said at the time it was a massive gamble and one they were prepared to take and pay the FFP fine. Had they not gone up, it would have been a right mess. Totally agree with your three comments there on fairytale, model club and good manager.

[aggi]

The point is that Bournemouth spending £15 million on a player is different to Burnley spending the same amount on a player.

As FFP isn't relevant, £15 million can be completely written off by Bournemouth if the player doesn't work out (IBE at £15 million a prime example) whereas we can't just shrug our shoulders and spend another £15 million, and another £15 million, and another £15 million if need be. Bournemouth can if they want to.

They have that safety net, we don't. Likewise paying £100k on Jermain Defoe has been written off by them.

I'm pretty sure you've made this point multiple times but it doesn't really have any basis in fact. Tyrone Mings has probably been the only one that they paid a decent amount for and hasn't played regularly or been sold for a decent amount (and arguably he's had injury problems).

You cite Ibe as a prime example but he started for Bournemouth at the weekend, he's not exactly been completely written off has he? Not like Wells was for instance.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

At £15 million you'd hope they'd persevere with Ibe.

He's still yet to start turning in regular decent performances from what I've read though so there's still time to write him off.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

You made a point Bournemouth can spend £15m, £15m and again £15m but they haven’t.

Of course they’ll have a wage structure. Defoe on £100,000 a week to sit on the bench seems a pretty decent option when the equivalent is Wood at £15m on probably around half of what Defoe gets.

They paid Defoe a £6 million signing on fee plus his £100k a week on a 3 year deal...
He's made 30 appearances in all comps and knocked in just 4 goals since he joined at the beginning of last season.

I'm going to push the boat out here and say we got a better deal for Wood and he's probably on less than you're thinking in regards to wages.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

But we have spent just as much on Wells and Walters who offered zero.

£5m for Wells is £35k a week before his wages. Defoe was a much more logical signing, especially given his record the season prior and over his career.

£6 million signing on fee.
£100k a week on a 3 year deal.

Purple patch at Sunderland for a couple of seasons compared to previous seasons when he rarely scored 10 or more league goals a season, it was 4 times in the PL before those couple of years at Sunderland and I'd be willing to bet he won't do it again.

Oh and he was 35 the time of signing.

Yeah much more logical

[cricketfieldclarets]

£6 million signing on fee.
£100k a week on a 3 year deal.

Purple patch at Sunderland for a couple of seasons compared to previous seasons when he rarely scored 10 or more league goals a season, it was 4 times in the PL before those couple of years at Sunderland and I'd be willing to bet he won't do it again.

Oh and he was 35 the time of signing.

Yeah much more logical

He was 34
He has consistently scored double figures - 15 the two seasons running
He is one of the premier league all time top scorers
He was on a free
He was back in The England Squad based on his performances

He was a million times a more logical signing than the injured Wells and soon to be out of contract who had less Championship starts than Defoe had premier league goals.

[aggi]

They paid Defoe a £6 million signing on fee plus his £100k a week on a 3 year deal...
He's made 30 appearances in all comps and knocked in just 4 goals since he joined at the beginning of last season.

I'm going to push the boat out here and say we got a better deal for Wood and he's probably on less than you're thinking in regards to wages.

I'm pretty sure Defoe is also on less than you're thinking in regards to wages.

[dsr]

I'm pretty sure Defoe is also on less than you're thinking in regards to wages.

According to most of the reports at the time, his wage was and is £65,000 per week if he isn't playing or scoring, but can rise to about £130,000 if he is reaching certain unspecified incentives. Signing-on fee was extra, but no numbers quoted.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'm pretty sure Defoe is also on less than you're thinking in regards to wages.

My bad, it's reported as more than £100k a week, so one of us is disappointed.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

He was 34
He has consistently scored double figures - 15 the two seasons running
He is one of the premier league all time top scorers
He was on a free
He was back in The England Squad based on his performances

He was a million times a more logical signing than the injured Wells and soon to be out of contract who had less Championship starts than Defoe had premier league goals.

No he hasn't consistently scored double figures in the league, go have a look and get back to me.

[aggi]

My bad, it's reported as more than £100k a week, so one of us is disappointed.

The £100k plus a week is generally reported including bonuses, basic was reported at £65k (and I wouldn't be surprised if that was high, unsurprisingly newspapers tend to exaggerate wages). If Defoe is scoring enough goals to be triggering those bonuses then he's probably still a decent signing, regardless of the wages.

Contracts tend to be heavily bonus based now rather than just a basic each week and that's it. Firmino at Liverpool for instance "only" gets about £60k a week but has massive bonuses.

[Dyched]

At £15 million you'd hope they'd persevere with Ibe.

He's still yet to start turning in regular decent performances from what I've read though so there's still time to write him off.

File with
Wood
Brady
Vydra

[cricketfieldclarets]

No he hasn't consistently scored double figures in the league, go have a look and get back to me.

Its ok to be wrong sometimes you know.

He has scored 10 or more premier league goals in 10 seasons. I would say that is fairly consistent wouldnt you!?!

Go and have a look who has done that more and get back to me. I will give you a bit of help - a few players who had plenty of time to score that many 8 times (never mind 10 times) but didnt include Didier Drogba, Fernando Torres, Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke, Ian Wright, Dennis Bergkamp, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer....

[cricketfieldclarets]

Oh yeah and add Van Persie, Anelka and Owen to that list too mate.

[Tall Paul]

Its ok to be wrong sometimes you know.

He has scored 10 or more premier league goals in 10 seasons. I would say that is fairly consistent wouldnt you!?!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermain_Defoe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like 8 seasons to me, which is still pretty good.

[cricketfieldclarets]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermain_Defoe

Looks like 8 seasons to me, which is still pretty good.

Its not though. I can see why it looks like that on Wiki, but...

2007/08 he scored 16 - 8 for Spurs, 8 for Pompey
2008/09 he scored 13 - 9 for Pompey and 4 for Spurs

There is also the season where he scored 7 in 15 for Spurs after signing in February when he was at the time top scorer in the championship aged 21.

[Tall Paul]

Fair enough, my mistake.

Carry on.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Fair enough, my mistake.

Carry on.

No need to. Its the end of the debate. Sidney / Godisadeejay is wrong

[Devils_Advocate]

Sorry CC I don't think Sid being wrong signals the end of the debate at all. I fully expect him to carry on relentlessly, asked for his account to be deleted and come back under a new guise that fools noone