Daniel Sturridge

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:55 pm

Sky sports just tweeted that he has been charged with breaking betting rules. Details not out yet it seems but lets see if he gets punisbed the same as Joey did. Lets see if the big clubs are treated differently than the smaller clubs

randomclaret2 · Post by **randomclaret2** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:58 pm

An 18 month ban for Sturridge would mean he'd miss about 4 matches

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:02 pm

It's only reasonable to expect a similar punishment to Barton if he made a similar high number of bets, including some on his own team.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:11 pm

Difference being - he probably wont have played in any games, never mind those he bet on!

On a serious note - hopefuly an even more high profile case than Barton will see football clamp down on betting in the game. Including advertising.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:12 pm

Caught betting on the number of dives he would make in a match..

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:14 pm

Football has to clean up its act regards relationships with betting companies. I doubt we can stop them sponsoring clubs but I feel that bets such as corners in what minute, time of first throw and amount of bookings are the markets which are being abused by players and should be outlawed to clean up the game. I and a few friends always have a bet and this type of bet never crosses our minds. This is the market which is getting abused in countries like China and Singapore.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:16 pm

The charge is for alleged breach of betting rules during January 2018

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:16 pm

I reckon a very high percentage of players bet on football.
They are probably just more careful in how they do it.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:38 pm

Sturridge has denied the allegations and said he’s never bet on a football match

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Sturridge has denied the allegations and said he’s never bet on a football match

It looks like the allegation is that he bet on transfers of players.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:48 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:I reckon a very high percentage of players bet on football.
They are probably just more careful in how they do it.

Yeah most will have accounts in family members names. Isnt that what Ronnie Moore got done for?

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Used to think nothing of it back in the day when Little and Weller used to walk into the bookies in their trackies before a match and have a bet with the youth team players. Those were the days when players were happy with £5 accumulators

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Tall Paul wrote:It looks like the allegation is that he bet on transfers of players.

How much more money does a player on 120k a week want?

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:54 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:How much more money does a player on 120k a week want?

Perhaps he wants a Merc G-Wagen

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:05 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:How much more money does a player on 120k a week want?

I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the physical money that's won, it's more about the buzz of winning it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:42 pm

FactualFrank wrote:I'm pretty sure it's nothing to do with the physical money that's won, it's more about the buzz of winning it.

Believe it or not, the feeling of losing and trying to win it back is apparently even more powerful than the buzz of winning

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:54 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Believe it or not, the feeling of losing and trying to win it back is apparently even more powerful than the buzz of winning

I saw McCann in Coral next to the Turf one evening, he was playing roulette, his stake was around £3, and he had about £20 in "the bank" he was regularly going over to the dog meetings placing a bet then returning.
I asked him why he's sat in here betting on a random x night, his reply was " I'm bored "

He wasn't even betting to win as such, his stake was pittance and was merely sat passing time, he was in there the whole half hour I was, and still had roughly the £20 in the bank. Just sat staring at a computer screen, pressing a button every 60 seconds.

A sad state of affairs

karatekid · Post by **karatekid** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:04 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Sturridge has denied the allegations and said he’s never bet on a football match

I misread that, thought it said:-

Sturridge has denied the allegations and said he’s never been on a football match

Shore claret · Post by **Shore claret** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:11 pm

Most shocking bit on the bbc site it says he has 26 England caps, he must of won them in a bet.

claretburns · Post by **claretburns** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:44 am

Appears whilst Sturridge himself didn't place a bet he let people know of his loan move to West Brom which people then betted on.

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:51 am

I heard on the news this morning that he's out for 6 weeks after tweaking his hamstring coming out of BetFred.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:56 am

claretburns wrote:Appears whilst Sturridge himself didn't place a bet he let people know of his loan move to West Brom which people then betted on.

It does seem odd doesn’t it, when they run these transfer markets there isn’t really a way to police them.
I always assumed you couldn’t put more than a fiver or a tenner on them anyway.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:37 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:It does seem odd doesn’t it, when they run these transfer markets there isn’t really a way to police them.
I always assumed you couldn’t put more than a fiver or a tenner on them anyway.

If you place 100 bets at £10 at even money you have made a Grand profit ..... if you win....

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:48 pm

claretburns wrote:Appears whilst Sturridge himself didn't place a bet he let people know of his loan move to West Brom which people then betted on.

This is where football can do something. Why should Sturridge be compelled by the FA to keep the fact that he's changing job private? I can understand why the respective clubs would want to keep it quiet but there is no reason that I can think of (beyond supporting the gambling industry) that it should even be a consideration for the FA.

I'm not sure anybody can really stop betting companies from offering any market they like in a legal sense given that many operate from outside the UK but the football authorities could certainly stop helping them by actively and intentionally creating the conditions that make those markets viable.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:54 pm

Bacchus wrote:This is where football can do something. Why should Sturridge be compelled by the FA to keep the fact that he's changing job private? I can understand why the respective clubs would want to keep it quiet but there is no reason that I can think of (beyond supporting the gambling industry) that it should even be a consideration for the FA.

I'm not sure anybody can really stop betting companies from offering any market they like in a legal sense given that many operate from outside the UK but the football authorities could certainly stop helping them by actively and intentionally creating the conditions that make those markets viable.

He’s compelled to keep quiet about it by the rules. He’s not allowed to pass on info he’s privy to because of his position in football. Sort of insider trading.

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:59 pm

Bosscat wrote:If you place 100 bets at £10 at even money you have made a Grand profit ..... if you win....

You’d need a lot off accounts under different names to be able to that.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:14 pm

I might be mistaken, but don't these rules work in favour of the betting companies?
People are being charged for beating the betting companies. They bet that he would move (or corners, score, whatever) and the bookies took the bet.
The bookies lost, and then the person who won is charged.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:30 pm

JTClaret wrote:I might be mistaken, but don't these rules work in favour of the betting companies?
People are being charged for beating the betting companies. They bet that he would move (or corners, score, whatever) and the bookies took the bet.
The bookies lost, and then the person who won is charged.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

It’s cheating!

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:02 pm

martin_p wrote:It’s cheating!

Yeah... but

If one person knows something and another person disagrees, you may hear the term 'I bet you...'.
I just find it slightly odd how people complain about betting in football yet care if something like this happens.

I can't say I get upset about it.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:17 pm

martin_p wrote:He’s compelled to keep quiet about it by the rules. He’s not allowed to pass on info he’s privy to because of his position in football. Sort of insider trading.

I recognise that. My point is that those rules don't seem to serve any obvious purpose beyond supporting the gambling industry.

Cleveleys_claret · Post by **Cleveleys_claret** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:46 pm

Football is so far behind the times. In cricket forms of cheating get players like Butt of Pakistan 5 year bans and jail sentences for what is the same as Le Tissier did in his playing career, when he tried to beat the system by kicking the ball out after 4 second only for a player not i on it to stop the ball going out and trying to play it about

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:49 pm

Bacchus wrote:I recognise that. My point is that those rules don't seem to serve any obvious purpose beyond supporting the gambling industry.

Their purpose is to maintain the integrity of the game.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:19 pm

Tall Paul wrote:Their purpose is to maintain the integrity of the game.

How does it achieve that? What integrity is broken by a player telling his pal that he is moving club?

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:25 pm

Bacchus wrote:How does it achieve that? What integrity is broken by a player telling his pal that he is moving club?

Nothing, it's the making money on it via betting that's the issue, or haven't you been keeping up with the story?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:28 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Nothing, it's the making money on it via betting that's the issue, or haven't you been keeping up with the story?

Yes I have - that's exactly the point I'm making. The rule exists solely because of the gambling industry. If the FA is enforcing rules purely to maintain the viability of betting markets then it's part of the problem, not the solution.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:54 pm

Bacchus wrote:Yes I have - that's exactly the point I'm making. The rule exists solely because of the gambling industry. If the FA is enforcing rules purely to maintain the viability of betting markets then it's part of the problem, not the solution.

The rule is there to prevent match fixing primarily, because that's been a thing for years incase you'd forgotten and that's before gambling started being a major part of football like it is now.

As someone else has said, it's basically insider trading.

They made a rule to stop loan players playing against their parent clubs.
By your logic should they ban loans?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm

Bacchus wrote:How does it achieve that? What integrity is broken by a player telling his pal that he is moving club?

First of all, it doesn't protect the gambling industry. Bookies love it when long odds bets come in and the "next club" markets usually have huge overrounds. It's the punters who have bet on the favourites that are the losers.

Imagine Sturridge tells his mate that he's going to instruct his agent to negotiate with Newcastle and make noises that he's interested while intending to "change his mind" and sign for WBA at the last minute. You don't see how that damages the integrity of the game?

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:24 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:The rule is there to prevent match fixing primarily, because that's been a thing for years incase you'd forgotten and that's before gambling started being a major part of football like it is now.

As someone else has said, it's basically insider trading.

They made a rule to stop loan players playing against their parent clubs.
By your logic should they ban loans?

Calm down and read my posts before getting all condescending. Once you've done that you can explain how a player telling his pal he's changing jobs relates to match fixing, and when you've finished with that you might want to point out where I've suggested they should ban loans.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:29 pm

Tall Paul wrote:First of all, it doesn't protect the gambling industry. Bookies love it when long odds bets come in and the "next club" markets usually have huge overrounds. It's the punters who have bet on the favourites that are the losers.

Imagine Sturridge tells his mate that he's going to instruct his agent to negotiate with Newcastle and make noises that he's interested while intending to "change his mind" and sign for WBA at the last minute. You don't see how that damages the integrity of the game?

Agents leak information about potential transfers all the time to try and strengthen their player's hand in negotiations. What do you think media speculation is based on? I genuinely don't see how it damages the integrity of the game.

If that information is used to place bets then it damages the integrity of the betting market. That should be a concern for the bookies, not the FA.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:36 pm

Bacchus wrote:Calm down and read my posts before getting all condescending. Once you've done that you can explain how a player telling his pal he's changing jobs relates to match fixing, and when you've finished with that you might want to point out where I've suggested they should ban loans.

I've read all of them and you're still not making sense no matter how many times I read them...

Rules banning players from gambling is mainly related to things like match fixing.
Whilst what he may have done isn't match fixing, it still falls under the same umbrella so to speak.
I used match fixing to show you that footballers & gambling has been an issue for a long time, before gambling became more heavily involved in football.

I used loans as a point to show that banning loan players from playing against parent clubs is the same principle as banning players from betting on football.

If you're still struggling to understand that then there isn't much I can do about appearing condescending.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:38 pm

Bacchus wrote:Agents leak information about potential transfers all the time to try and strengthen their player's hand in negotiations. What do you think media speculation is based on? I genuinely don't see how it damages the integrity of the game.

If that information is used to place bets then it damages the integrity of the betting market. That should be a concern for the bookies, not the FA.

Media speculation can be a mixture of people in the know leaking information or people just pulling any old crap out of their arse.

I happen to know of a group of Burnley fans who used to see how far they could get a rumour to travel on transfer deadline day.
I think they actually made it onto SSN with one a couple of years ago.

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:59 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I've read all of them and you're still not making sense no matter how many times I read them...

Rules banning players from gambling is mainly related to things like match fixing.

Has he been charged with gambling? From what I've read there is no suggestion that he has placed any bets.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:03 pm

Bacchus wrote:Has he been charged with gambling? From what I've read there is no suggestion that he has placed any bets.

I'm going to wander off and smack my head off the floor, it's got to be less painful than this...

He's broken the rules, allegedly, if you don't understand that fact then it's fairly pointless carrying on with this chat.
If you don't like the fact that he's broken the rules write to the FA or your local MP, I'm sure you'll have much joy and success with it.
He didn't gamble, he gave out information to others so they could benefit from it, information that wouldn't normally be available as per the screenshot.

If anyone wants me I'll be smacking my head off the floor ..

: Screenshot_20181113-210106.png (341.89 KiB) Viewed 3116 times

Bacchus · Post by **Bacchus** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:11 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:I'm going to wander off and smack my head off the floor, it's got to be less painful than this...

He's broken the rules, allegedly, if you don't understand that fact then it's fairly pointless carrying on with this chat.
If you don't like the fact that he's broken the rules write to the FA or your local MP, I'm sure you'll have much joy and success with it.
He didn't gamble, he gave out information to others so they could benefit from it, information that wouldn't normally be available as per the screenshot.

If anyone wants me I'll be smacking my head off the floor ..

Screenshot_20181113-210106.png

Smack away, my friend. I'm not disputing whether he's in breach of the rules. I'm questioning the logic and intention of the rules - specifically the ones that deem that a player has to keep his job prospects a sworn secret. If you can't understand that then you're probably right, this is a waste of both of our time.

In what way does a player telling someone that he is changing job bring football into disrepute? To my mind it doesn't unless you assume that players are changing clubs purely to fleece the bookies. Match fixing / spot bets on corners / anything affecting how a player performs on the pitch could bring the game into disrepute. A player changing clubs does not.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:13 pm

claretburns wrote:Appears whilst Sturridge himself didn't place a bet he let people know of his loan move to West Brom which people then betted on.

Would this constitute fraud and be a matter for the police

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:50 pm

Bacchus wrote:Agents leak information about potential transfers all the time to try and strengthen their player's hand in negotiations. What do you think media speculation is based on? I genuinely don't see how it damages the integrity of the game.

If that information is used to place bets then it damages the integrity of the betting market. That should be a concern for the bookies, not the FA.

Yes, but media speculation is in the public domain. The betting markets will react accordingly and odds will shorten. This case is about using info not in the public domain.