Haslingden Bypass - mobile speed van on bridge

[Chobulous]

Did you miss this bit?

I mean, would it kill them to put some bigger 50 signs up on both sides of the road? not the tiny repeater signs? I guess they wont do that because it would affect their revenue, defend it all you like - I think it is wrong. That stretch of road should never be a 50 after the bend, and it never was in all the time I drove up and and down it every day 10+ years ago.

Speed limit signs are a standard size, as far as I am aware the larger signs are to indicate that you are entering an area where the speed limit has changed. If you are approaching an area where the limit increases you can only accelerate up to that limit once you have passed the sign. If you are approaching an area where the limit decreases you must slow down to the new limit before you pass the sign.

[dsr]

For the record I drove down this stretch of road yesterday and it's pretty obvious to anyone who is paying attention that the speed limit is 50mph - I think I counted 3 clearly visible signs. The most likely reason for there regularly being a speed camera there is that in my experience almost nobody observes the speed limit there.

But why, specifically, are speed cameras always in places like this and never, or vortually never, outside schools? Is it because they think that people like Rick, driving at 63 mph on a dual carriageway, are dangers to society while people who speed outside schools are not? Or is it because they can get more "ticks" from putting cameras where speeding is safe but illegal than they can where it is dangerous and illegal?

[deanothedino]

I mean, would it kill them to put some bigger 50 signs up on both sides of the road? not the tiny repeater signs? I guess they wont do that because it would affect their revenue, defend it all you like - I think it is wrong. That stretch of road should never be a 50 after the bend, and it never was in all the time I drove up and and down it every day 10+ years ago.

Lancashire Police aren't responsible for the signage. There's big 50 signs when the 50 zone starts, after that all that is required is repeaters. Just accept that you were in the wrong.

[houseboy]

I keep seeing this thread and can't help thinking that bloody speed camera has been there a long time now, surely everyone must know it's there by now.

[Rick_Muller]

AS has been said if the National Speed Limit signs are ahead of you then you are not actually in that speed area. As for the fifty signs there is the usual large fifty zone signs as you come down the road before you bear of to the left and then there are actually nine repeater signs before the start of the national speed limit area. Without wishing to start an argument it is a pity that at your speed you I think are unlikely to be offered a speed awareness course as it would be beneficial for you to remind you of the observation skills you need whilst driving.

You're coming across as a little patronising here, and I am sure that's not your intention. There's nothing wrong with my observation skills in my opinion, I had driven 180 miles from MK at the point I was "lasered" on this bypass, driven through numerous variable limit zones on the M1 and the M6, driven through other speed limit areas on the M62 as well, all obediently observed by me - I had driven past the large 50 signs as you come down the hill towards the bypass, and observed them; I had also driven past all of the repeater 50 signs that you mention of which I noticed some and obediently observed too - the only one that I did not see was the last one (which is 2 lamp posts down from the slip road. Perhaps the van I was moving over for was obscuring my view, I just dont recall seeing that specific one, and as I have explained I was moving across to allow traffic to join safely and whilst doing so I accelerated to keep a safe flow of traffic with what was behind me - that was my mistake and it has nothing to do with being observant I'm afraid - and again, as I have explained, that stretch of road the last time I recall using it was not a 50 zone, it was always a national speed limit zone from just before the slip road, so you can forgive me for assuming it still was.

[deanothedino]

so you can forgive me for assuming it still was.

We can, and I do - no issues with your reasons for having exceeded the limit, but you could also accept your punishment rather than whine and say "I will not let this drop though, until I have exhausted all possible courses of action." when you know you were in the wrong.

[Rick_Muller]

We can, and I do - no issues with your reasons for having exceeded the limit, but you could also accept your punishment rather than whine and say "I will not let this drop though, until I have exhausted all possible courses of action." when you know you were in the wrong.

I have accepted it and acknowledged that I was caught, I'm not whining - my reference to not letting it drop is in relation to the p!ss poor process in which drivers who have to go through this are expected to ignore SSL invalid certificates to check their offence; and no photo evidence of the site (road) because they're updating their website.

[Bacchus]

But why, specifically, are speed cameras always in places like this and never, or vortually never, outside schools? Is it because they think that people like Rick, driving at 63 mph on a dual carriageway, are dangers to society while people who speed outside schools are not? Or is it because they can get more "ticks" from putting cameras where speeding is safe but illegal than they can where it is dangerous and illegal?

Assuming for one moment that your concern for the safety of schoolchildren is legitimate and not just hollow whataboutery I guess you'd be an advocate of increasing the number of speed traps so that we can catch irresponsible drivers at dangerous spots on fast dual carriageways as well as on slower, urban road.

[Midmoorclaret]

I assume all these mobile camera vans are equipped with ANPR in which case they not only detect speed but also uninsured or written off vehicles and those being used without MOT.

[dsr]

Assuming for one moment that your concern for the safety of schoolchildren is legitimate and not just hollow whataboutery I guess you'd be an advocate of increasing the number of speed traps so that we can catch irresponsible drivers at dangerous spots on fast dual carriageways as well as on slower, urban road.

Ignoring for all time youyr irrelevant first clause, I would be an advocate of using speed traps completely hidden, not detectable by satnavs or any other device, in places where no-one has advance knowledge of where they are; but in places where speeding is actually dangerous, not places where speeding is common but safe. Speed limits are an exact number where legal / illegal is concerned, but they are not an exact science - there are places and times where it's perfectly safe to go faster than the legal limit; there are also places and times where it isn't safe to go anywhere near the legal limit.

Hence, places like schools could have cameras set to 31 mph at 9 am and 3 pm, to catch the menaces driving far faster than is safe (even though technically barely illegal). And empty motorways (eg. M6 to Carlisle) on clear dry days can have their cameras set to 100 mph or so.

[The Quattro]

I have accepted it and acknowledged that I was caught, I'm not whining - my reference to not letting it drop is in relation to the p!ss poor process in which drivers who have to go through this are expected to ignore SSL invalid certificates to check their offence; and no photo evidence of the site (road) because they're updating their website.

Legally they don’t have to provide either unless you elect for trial. No denying that they should improve the facility if they decide to provide one but unfortunately if you were planning on using this a part of your challenge it won’t go anywhere.

That stretch was dropped to a 50mph limit around 2010 due to the number of serious road traffic collisions.

[lesxdp]

You're coming across as a little patronising here, and I am sure that's not your intention.
You are quite correct there I do not mean to by patronising but i am a little confused how you now say you had seen all of the 50 signs (except the last one?) but yet didn't know that you were in a fifty area although you have stated that you saw the National speed limit sign ahead of you, and as it is obviously a larger one it indicates the start when you have passed it not that you are actually in it as per the smaller repeater ones, yet you say that as it wasn't a 50 limit ten years ago you should be forgiven for thinking it wasn't limited even though you saw the signs!
However you were caught and I can understand you feeling agrieved but most of us will have been there at some stage, myself included of course, just pay your fine and move on. Your complaint is trivial and time wasting re the process, after all you know you drove down the road, you accept you were speeding so why do you want photos of the road.
Unfortunately you are likely to receive three points which I would think none of us want, and I do feel the potential consequences of that are a little harsh compared to only six for using a mobile, but there goes another discussion.
I wish the only three points given out were awarded to the Clarets tonight v Newcastle and many more in the future,

[Rick_Muller]

Legally they don’t have to provide either unless you elect for trial. No denying that they should improve the facility if they decide to provide one but unfortunately if you were planning on using this a part of your challenge it won’t go anywhere.

I do understand that they do not legally have to provide the photos unless they go to trial, they offered them freely however they are unavailable. The issue for me is that due to a poor website with no valid SSL certificate I shouldn't really put personal data into their web forms in order to access their system - they dont have a facility to post out photos, but instead offer an insecure website and even then they dont have all the photos they promised to provide.

That stretch was dropped to a 50mph limit around 2010 due to the number of serious road traffic collisions.

Thanks for the info, it was about 2009 the last time I drove down there and it was not a 50 then. Ironically, my sat nav took me that way because the M65 was closed on that day, normally I dont go anywhere near that road anymore.

[Bacchus]

in places where speeding is actually dangerous, not places where speeding is common but safe.

That's the problem though. Speed limits are set because it isn't generally safe to exceed them. If it were generally safe to drive faster the speed limit would be higher. There might of course be occasions where there are no parked cars, no other traffic, no pedestrians and no adverse weather and it therefore it would be safe to drive a bit faster but it would be impossible to police unless you were to install and maintain variable speed limit signs on every road in the country and employ an army of lawyers to deal with all the contested charges.

It all seems like a lot of effort and expense to cut your journey time by a couple of minutes. Maybe it's just best to accept that a simple but imperfect solution is actually the best one.

[dsr]

That's the problem though. Speed limits are set because it isn't generally safe to exceed them. If it were generally safe to drive faster the speed limit would be higher. There might of course be occasions where there are no parked cars, no other traffic, no pedestrians and no adverse weather and it therefore it would be safe to drive a bit faster but it would be impossible to police unless you were to install and maintain variable speed limit signs on every road in the country and employ an army of lawyers to deal with all the contested charges.

It all seems like a lot of effort and expense to cut your journey time by a couple of minutes. Maybe it's just best to accept that a simple but imperfect solution is actually the best one.

I don't speed, as a rule. But the current system is designed to catch people like me, who don't generally speed but who may put our foot down a bit too hard as we approach the speed limit sign instead of waiting till we pass it, or who read the road as a 50 mph road and don't see that the signs say otherwise, or who are concentrating on other hazards such as traffic lights and pedestrians so we miss the first sign that tells us the limit has changed.

People who knowingly and regularly speed have the equipment that tells them where the traps are, and so are no more likely to get caught that people like me and presumably Rick who do speed occasionally and accidentally, and where it is relatively safer. Police shouldn't be going after, as a prime target, the people who speed occasionally. They should go after the people who do it all the time.

PS - I haven't been caught yet on my accidental (or occasionally deliberate, on a clear 60/70mph road) speeding offences. I don't have an axe to grind in that respect.

[lesxdp]

Just one more comment on this for all who think the police only go after soft targets, take a look on Twitter and follow any of the road traffic police eg Lancashire North west Motorway and many others. You may be amazed at the numbers of no insurance, no licence,drink driving often all at the same time. Quite amusing sometimes to read about someone doing maybe 100 mph plus and not even seeing the BMW X5 behind them. Not to mention the stolen and recovered cars.
They also sometimes report where they are targeting speed enforcement due usually to requests from the public in certain areas.

[Rick_Muller]

A quick update for you all. I was offered:

1 - the Speed Awareness course for £80 and no points
2 - £100 fine AND 3 points
3 - the option to go to court and argue my case and risk an increased fine and up to 6 points

guess what I'me doing at the Dunkenhalgh on Saturday 2nd March... yes, I am going to enjoy 4 hours of Speed Awareness discussions with Lancashire's finest...

Oh and to add - the Lancashire PAS has since been updated with a new SSL certificate, and though they recognised this as an issue they didn't see it as a security issue, but updated the certificate anyway as a result of my complaint... read into that what you want.

[Sausage]

Rick, go on the course with an open mind and a willingness to learn. I did a speed awareness course two years ago and it has genuinely made me a better (albeit not perfect) driver.

[Bordeauxclaret]

You’ll probably be able to spot the Crystal Palace team before you go in.
Perhaps a robust challenge on Zaha in the Reception area?

[Billy Balfour]

yes, I am going to enjoy 4 hours of Speed Awareness discussions with Lancashire's finest

The police don't run the courses. The course that I went on was wasn't too boring and I gained a few things from it.

Anyway, I was driving over the tops to Rochdale a couple of days ago, while driving at the speed limit, when I encountered tailgater in a clapped-out old banger who was literally inches away from my rear bumper. I had to endure a couple of miles of this before I could pull over safely. The tailgater came along side and starts doing slit-throat gestures and giving it the Vs. Readers, he must have been in his 80s. I actually burst out laughing at him.

Thing is though, you drive within the speed limit and you end up picking up no end of pricks who feels it's safe to glue themselves to the back of your car. There needs to be a clampdown. I'd love to know how many people have been prosecuted in Lancashire since the law change?

[Rick_Muller]

Rick, go on the course with an open mind and a willingness to learn. I did a speed awareness course two years ago and it has genuinely made me a better (albeit not perfect) driver.

I fully intend to mate - I have never professed to be the best driver, but I am experienced and I have done a fair bit of motor sport in my time too so I do have a good affinity for driving but yes, an open mind is essential.

You’ll probably be able to spot the Crystal Palace team before you go in.
Perhaps a robust challenge on Zaha in the Reception area?

I'll certainly look out for them. Perhaps a little slip of laxative in the team coffee at breakfast...??? [disclaimer - this is a joke]

yes, I am going to enjoy 4 hours of Speed Awareness discussions with Lancashire's finest

The police don't run the courses. The course that I went on was wasn't too boring and I gained a few things from it.

Anyway, I was driving over the tops to Rochdale a couple of days ago, while driving at the speed limit, when I encountered tailgater in a clapped-out old banger who was literally inches away from my rear bumper. I had to endure a couple of miles of this before I could pull over safely. The tailgater came along side and starts doing slit-throat gestures and giving it the Vs. Readers, he must have been in his 80s. I actually burst out laughing at him.

Thing is though, you drive within the speed limit and you end up picking up no end of pricks who feels it's safe to glue themselves to the back of your car. There needs to be a clampdown. I'd love to know how many people have been prosecuted in Lancashire since the law change?

I know the police don't run the courses, I was referring to the drivers of Lancashire

and you're right about dickheads on the road, I see them often - more so since I have been excessively cautious with my speed.

[Goobs]

I fully intend to mate - I have never professed to be the best driver, but I am experienced and I have done a fair bit of motor sport in my time too so I do have a good affinity for driving but yes, an open mind is essential.



I'll certainly look out for them. Perhaps a little slip of laxative in the team coffee at breakfast...??? [disclaimer - this is a joke]



I know the police don't run the courses, I was referring to the drivers of Lancashire

and you're right about dickheads on the road, I see them often - more so since I have been excessively cautious with my speed.

No need for the laxatives they'll be $h!tting themselves enough anyway.

[corporal jones]

https://goo.gl/images/DBK8Zt

Different from previous one but you can hardly say it is unmarked.

how smug do those bastards look!

[corporal jones]

I have been aware of this location for some time now and having got to 9 points I am a limiter and cruise control addict so for me the deterrent has worked. HOWEVER-this location for a van proves beyond all doubt that the choice of location is all about revenue raising and nothing to do with safety. The van is in a 70 zone looking way down the road into a 50 zone on a stretch of road that does not need to be 50. In fact I would suggest that that section was made into a 50 in order to entrap the motorist.
Meanwhile, whilst travelling from Crow wood back home to Nelson on Wed evening at 6.45 I witnessed a car overtake down the hard shoulder twice within a half mile at approx 80 mph. No camera for him/her because there is no money in it I would suggest.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

"..........Meanwhile, whilst travelling from Crow wood back home to Nelson on Wed evening at 6.45 I witnessed a car overtake down the hard shoulder twice within a half mile at approx 80 mph. No camera for him/her because there is no money in it I would suggest."

Very true ---same thing happened on the A1 near Harrogate on Monday when I was returning from Sheffield in fairly heavy traffic, in fact, it is something I often see on this particular stretch of road. Crazy!!

[keith1879]

I have been aware of this location for some time now and having got to 9 points I am a limiter and cruise control addict so for me the deterrent has worked. HOWEVER-this location for a van proves beyond all doubt that the choice of location is all about revenue raising and nothing to do with safety. The van is in a 70 zone looking way down the road into a 50 zone on a stretch of road that does not need to be 50. In fact I would suggest that that section was made into a 50 in order to entrap the motorist.
Meanwhile, whilst travelling from Crow wood back home to Nelson on Wed evening at 6.45 I witnessed a car overtake down the hard shoulder twice within a half mile at approx 80 mph. No camera for him/her because there is no money in it I would suggest.

Whilst the 50 limit does continue for some distance after the bend has straightened out there is an entry slip road shortly before the limit rises ....I suspect that this is the reason for the continuation of the limit. Of course if the National Speed Limit sign was moved 400 yards towards the M66 it would mean that a driver observing the speed limit could save 5.25 seconds (this is the actual saving of driving at 70 instead of 50 for a quarter of a mile) so I can see why people are so upset at the delay to their journeys.

[Pimlico_Claret]

I assume all these mobile camera vans are equipped with ANPR in which case they not only detect speed but also uninsured or written off vehicles and those being used without MOT.

Good point, I would like to know that too. Cut a long story short, I rang non emergency 101 the other night (set at least 3 hours aside for a response) to report a vehicle being driven that had no MOT.
I was thanked for my patience and told it would be dealt with. Inquisitively, I asked how. I asked if the registered keepers address would be visited?
No, was the response, because the police could not be sure if the vehicle may have been stolen or driven by someone other than the registered keeper, so they would just wait till it popped up on an ANPR, potentially involving a dangerous pursual should the driver not cooperate.
I was also told to report it to the DVLA. The DVLA website clearly states that they have no jurisdiction over vehicles with no MOT and to contact the police on 101.
You couldn't make it up.

[corporal jones]

Whilst the 50 limit does continue for some distance after the bend has straightened out there is an entry slip road shortly before the limit rises ....I suspect that this is the reason for the continuation of the limit. Of course if the National Speed Limit sign was moved 400 yards towards the M66 it would mean that a driver observing the speed limit could save 5.25 seconds (this is the actual saving of driving at 70 instead of 50 for a quarter of a mile) so I can see why people are so upset at the delay to their journeys.

Whilst you may be correct that is sooooo no the point. The point is that they entrap drivers and severely punish them for not really doing anything wrong or dangerous. Anyone who claims never to speed is dillusional. I would be confident that 99%of drivers break the speed limit 99% of the times they go out and drive. It may be unintentional but they still do it. It may be only 32 in a 30 or 43 in a 40 or as low as 22 in a 20 but they still do it. Next time you go out try and follow every speed limit religiously and see how you get on.

[Damo]

I have been aware of this location for some time now and having got to 9 points I am a limiter and cruise control addict so for me the deterrent has worked. HOWEVER-this location for a van proves beyond all doubt that the choice of location is all about revenue raising and nothing to do with safety. The van is in a 70 zone looking way down the road into a 50 zone on a stretch of road that does not need to be 50. In fact I would suggest that that section was made into a 50 in order to entrap the motorist.
Meanwhile, whilst travelling from Crow wood back home to Nelson on Wed evening at 6.45 I witnessed a car overtake down the hard shoulder twice within a half mile at approx 80 mph. No camera for him/her because there is no money in it I would suggest.

If you have racked up 9 points, and have to use cruise control to stop yourself from getting banned, then I suspect you are not a victim of a money making scheme.
It really is difficult to have sympathy for some drivers when it comes to being prosecuted

[Joe14]

Whilst you may be correct that is sooooo no the point. The point is that they entrap drivers and severely punish them for not really doing anything wrong or dangerous. Anyone who claims never to speed is dillusional. I would be confident that 99%of drivers break the speed limit 99% of the times they go out and drive. It may be unintentional but they still do it. It may be only 32 in a 30 or 43 in a 40 or as low as 22 in a 20 but they still do it. Next time you go out try and follow every speed limit religiously and see how you get on.

99% of drivers break the speed limit 99% of the time they go out and drive

That’s absolute tosh. You try driving though Colne........ you will average 5 MPH!!

[Sutton-Claret]

I'm into my 30th year of driving and I've only ever been caught speeding twice - both were by a van on this bridge, both times in 1999 and within a couple of months of each other. I'm sure back then it was national speed limit all the way - which didn't matter anyway as I was doing 95mph.

[corporal jones]

If you have racked up 9 points, and have to use cruise control to stop yourself from getting banned, then I suspect you are not a victim of a money making scheme.
It really is difficult to have sympathy for some drivers when it comes to being prosecuted

I reached 9 points over a three year period during which I did over 120, 000 miles. Do the maths. More to the point read the posts and lose the smug attitude. Are you seriously claiming to have never done 33 in a 30? If so you are being economical with the truth. Drive normally tomorrow and honestly monitor what speeds you are doing and I guarantee you will break the speed limit.

[claptrappers_union]

I've just received a notice that I have been caught speeding on Rossendale Road. Its a fair cop.... but where were they?

Normally I spot them, but from the image I've seen online, it looked like they were on higher ground. I suspect I was zapped where the road splits into two lanes before Usha was.

[claret wizard]

Rossy Rd, not worth speeding on there. I always stick my cruise control on, always been a hot spot for cameras, vans etc.

Just a point on Hassy by pass, the road absolutely needed to be slowed down, it was not safe taking that bend at 70 mph and then with a on ramp no way could they increase the speed limit until after that. I saw 2 accidents on that corner from cars trying to drive at the speed limit, both in the wet.

No points for me since 2005, I suspect more by luck than judgement!

[Cheshireclaret]

I reached 9 points over a three year period during which I did over 120, 000 miles. Do the maths. More to the point read the posts and lose the smug attitude. Are you seriously claiming to have never done 33 in a 30? If so you are being economical with the truth. Drive normally tomorrow and honestly monitor what speeds you are doing and I guarantee you will break the speed limit.

My old man lives in Spain and I believe they have a system whereby you can gain extra ‘credits’ on your licence for not being caught speeding. So, in the UK, if you’d not been caught in 3 years (its a while since I spoke to him about it so the timeframe may be different), you essentially have 13 credits on your licence and so on up to a maximum of 15 I think it is or whatever their system equivalent is.

Quite a good idea although that doesn’t take into account those of us, like yourself, who do tens of thousands of miles every year, it’s just the effluxion of time.

[Top Claret]

That's the thing I hate about Lancashire, you can't fart without a speed camera picking up the scent

[BennyD]

Going too fast is the biggest cause of accidents, injuries and deaths on the road. Stick to the speed limit. It’s easy.

Bolloxcs; the biggest cause of accidents, injuries and deaths is sh!t drivers and the incorrect use of speed. Smart motorways, for example, are only as smart as the tw4ts using them. Just look at the number of d!ckheads hogging the 3rd lane with 2 empty lanes inside. They are, effectively, turning a very expensive motorway with 3 overtaking lanes into a dual carriageway with 1. Those idiots are more likely to cause an accident doing 60mph than those overtaking them doing 80. Speed should be enjoyed, but used wisely. Rant over.