England vs Croatia

[Buxtonclaret]

Well done, England!
Wish I'd have watched it now.

[taio]

We score from set plays and people say it's hoofball.

England do it and it's brilliant football!

hmmm...

Our style of play is nothing like England's

[Rileybobs]

"We've improved since the World Cup"

Says Rooney and Southgate.

I can still see the very same glaring weaknesses. It is not a dislike of Southgate -he's actually a very likeable guy- it is a dislike of his style of football.

It is a very specific, very valid and quantifiable critique.

I'm very happy to see us play as we did first half and very happy to see us win.

The evidence is there Rowls. We put in our best performance in years against Spain and today’s performance would have put us into a World Cup final if we’d have reached the same heights a few months ago.

There’s no doubt that this side is improving and evolving - not sure why you’re so reluctant to admit it.

[Vegas Claret]

"We've improved since the World Cup"

Says Rooney and Southgate.

I can still see the very same glaring weaknesses. It is not a dislike of Southgate -he's actually a very likeable guy- it is a dislike of his style of football.

It is a very specific, very valid and quantifiable critique.

I'm very happy to see us play as we did first half and very happy to see us win.

still the most entertaining England footy team for a long while

[joey13]

We score from set plays and people say it's hoofball.

England do it and it's brilliant football!

hmmm...

Do you actually understand what hoofball is ?
I wish we did play like England

[FactualFrank]

That was pressing almost perfected. One of the best overall England performances in 20 years.

[Funkydrummer]

Next up, Hartlepool vs Barnet @ 1630 in the National League.

[Vegas Claret]

67% England possession, surprised by that but that shows the evolution, 2 years ago that would have been 30%

[joey13]

Southgate been a breath of fresh air compared to the dinosaurs like Hodgson and Allardyce

[cricketfieldclarets]

Read this thread without knowing the score. Have to ssy it was obvious kane would end up winning it at one nil just from reading this

[SalisburyClaret]

Excellent team performance with some great individual contributions.
A pleasure to watch

[Vegas Claret]

Read this thread without knowing the score. Have to ssy it was obvious kane would end up winning it at one nil just from reading this

I said that to the mrs when I was typing it "This is bound to come back and bite me" ........and it did

So come Monday I'll be posting the same about our strikers !!!

[IanMcL]

But what if they had lost....

[FactualFrank]

But what if they had lost....

Then it would have been criminal.

That should be an example to club managers on how to press. Its what I would demand if I were a manager.

One of the best overall performances in 28 years.

[Woodleyclaret]

Except for the winner.I'm no Spuds fan but Harry took his chance well.Thats what strikers do

[FactualFrank]

Excellent team performance with some great individual contributions.
A pleasure to watch

Spot on. There's a reason why this thread has gone quiet - because we won and we won well.

I stick by what I said. That was one of the most complete performances that England have produced since 1990. And we were lucky to make it to the semi-finals back then so we're probably going back to 1986.

We FINALLY get somebody who understands how football should be played and goes about things without any worry. It's what England fans have wanted for decades.

[Vegas Claret]

Spot on. There's a reason why this thread has gone quiet - because we won and we won well.

I stick by what I said. That was one of the most complete performances that England have produced since 1990. And we were lucky to make it to the semi-finals back then so we're probably going back to 1986.

We FINALLY get somebody who understands how football should be played and goes about things without any worry. It's what England fans have wanted for decades.

it's gone quit probably cause the game finished a couple of hours ago Frank !!

[FactualFrank]

it's gone quit probably cause the game finished a couple of hours ago Frank !!

Well.. yeah that as well. haha.

But do you agree about my overall point? I know we are Burnley. Of course, that goes without saying. But today, as a country, we were immense. 2-1 to us flattered them.

We have so many people lambasting the International football team, yet they never come out when we play so well. If you're 40 or under, we've never played better football in your lifetime. I just think this is the time to be a bit more positive.

We all want England to win the World Cup. Well - I'll tell you now. If it does happen, it will be under Gareth Southgate.

[Vegas Claret]

Well.. yeah that as well. haha.

But do you agree about my overall point? I know we are Burnley. Of course, that goes without saying. But today, as a country, we were immense. 2-1 to us flattered them.

We have so many people lambasting the International football team, yet they never come out when we play so well. If you're 40 or under, we've never played better football in your lifetime. I just think this is the time to be a bit more positive.

We all want England to win the World Cup. Well - I'll tell you now. If it does happen, it will be under Gareth Southgate.

Well, I didn't want Southgate to get the job, I think some of his substitutions are bizarre BUT there has been vast improvement under him whilst he is learning on the job. His job is being made a touch easier because the bulk of the England players are being coached by top managers at their respective clubs playing the same style. No question, it's refreshing to see but I think there is a lot more to come from certain players. I'm more than happy that Southgate is proving me wrong though because it means England are doing well.

[FactualFrank]

Well, I didn't want Southgate to get the job, I think some of his substitutions are bizarre BUT there has been vast improvement under him whilst he is learning on the job. His job is being made a touch easier because the bulk of the England players are being coached by top managers at their respective clubs playing the same style. No question, it's refreshing to see but I think there is a lot more to come from certain players. I'm more than happy that Southgate is proving me wrong though because it means England are doing well.

I'm with you. When Southgate got the job I was thinking, "who would be afraid of his team talk!?"

But this is the best football England have played in what? ... 40 years?. Gone are the days when we have the odd good game. We are playing good football and we will stick at it. It's what we've been complaining about for bloody ages. We beat Croatia and Spain and we deserved both wins! Let that sink in for a moment.

[Devils_Advocate]

Spot on. There's a reason why this thread has gone quiet - because we won and we won well.

I stick by what I said. That was one of the most complete performances that England have produced since 1990. And we were lucky to make it to the semi-finals back then so we're probably going back to 1986.

We FINALLY get somebody who understands how football should be played and goes about things without any worry. It's what England fans have wanted for decades.

The 2004 team were the best we've had since 66. We battered France up until Beckham skied his pen to make it 2-0. After going behind we easily beat Switzerland then destroyed Croatia which in my opinion has only been bettered once in an actual tournament in my lifetime (Holland 96)

We then were dominating Portugal till Rooneys injury and even then we had a perfectly good winner disallowed in the 90th minute before going out on pens

The 2004 team played some brilliant football and were easily the best in the Europe that year and that really is the one that got away

[FactualFrank]

The 2004 team were the best we've had since 66. We battered France up until Beckham skied his pen to make it 2-0. After going behind we easily beat Switzerland then destroyed Croatia which in my opinion has only been bettered once in an actual tournament in my lifetime (Holland 96)

We then were dominating Portugal till Rooneys injury and even then we had a perfectly good winner disallowed in the 90th minute before going out on pens

The 2004 team played some brilliant football and were easily the best in the Europe that year and that really is the one that got away

We are better than the 2004 team. We pass and control the football much better. We don't just hoof it, we play it back and try again. If we were that good, I'd have remembered. I'm 38 and we've never played better in my lifetime. I've seen the 66 replay World Cup and we won it, mainly because we hosted the bloody thing.

[Devils_Advocate]

This team has real promise and could be better but the football in 2004 was great. Even in the qualifiers I remember the night Sven chucked Rooney in to a massive game against Turkey and we absolutely bossed it. I think we scored 9 goals in 3 group games against all decent teams. When the new lot put together a string of competitive performances (and they might well) ;ile that then i'll be convinced

My comment was more you comparing them against the 86 and 90 teams when the 2004 one was far better than those two cos like you im loving what Southgate is doing and im really enjoying watching England play again

[Rileybobs]

DA is right in that we played some good stuff in the early 2000's. We used to dominate games with bags of possession and importantly had a really solid back four that could be relied upon. I don't have much confidence in us at the back at the moment and feel this is our major weakness.

This team is a bit more raw, so in some ways probably more exciting but also more likely to lose a game through mistakes at the back as we could easily have done today.

[cricketfieldclarets]

We are better than the 2004 team. We pass and control the football much better. We don't just hoof it, we play it back and try again. If we were that good, I'd have remembered. I'm 38 and we've never played better in my lifetime. I've seen the 66 replay World Cup and we won it, mainly because we hosted the bloody thing.

2004 was the best side we have had at least since 66. However we didnt get the luck you sonetimes need. Rooneys injury and another disallowed Campbell goal that shouldve stood. Gerrard cocking up late on in the group against France cost us as well.


Neville
Campbell (Ferdinand banned)
Terry
Ashley Cole
Beckham
Scholes
Gerrard
Owen
Rooney
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves

Thats half the entire squad that were top drawer and an equally good (at the time) manager. His only flaw was trying to fit all of that midfield together rather than how managers like Marcelo Lippi used to play. System first players decond.

[FactualFrank]

This team has real promise and could be better but the football in 2004 was great. Even in the qualifiers I remember the night Sven chucked Rooney in to a massive game against Turkey and we absolutely bossed it. I think we scored 9 goals in 3 group games against all decent teams. When the new lot put together a string of competitive performances (and they might well) then i'll be comvinced

My comment was more you comparing them against the 86 and 90 teams when the 2004 one was far better than those cos like you im loving what Southgate is doing and im really enjoying watching England play again

Yeah, I think ultimately we're both enjoying the football. I think Southgate is doing what a lot of us fans wanted. Play football and if we lose - we lose. I enjoyed today's game, and you can't say that about England under previous managers. You can tell the players were ordered to do a role. They had a job to do. And they did it. You never really saw that in England games over the last 30 years. They turned up and passed a ball.

This is more like a club team. Where they supported eachother and worked their balls off.

[Vegas Claret]

I'd like to see Sterling run at people like Rashford does, I can't remember having so much pace up front (other than Kane) and that young kid Sancho looks like he could be very good going foward

[RocketLawnChair]

This team has real promise and could be better but the football in 2004 was great. Even in the qualifiers I remember the night Sven chucked Rooney in to a massive game against Turkey and we absolutely bossed it. I think we scored 9 goals in 3 group games against all decent teams. When the new lot put together a string of competitive performances (and they might well) ;ile that then i'll be convinced

My comment was more you comparing them against the 86 and 90 teams when the 2004 one was far better than those two cos like you im loving what Southgate is doing and im really enjoying watching England play again

IMO what cost us in 2004 after Rooney’s injury was Sven pandering to the press. We were one up and Portugal were terrified of Rooney and dropping deep out of fear. Rooney got injured and we put the lightweight Vassell on and the ball was coming straight back for the remainder of the game. Sven should have stuck two fingers up at the press box and put the much vilified Heskey on at least our defence and midfield would have been able to get up the pitch and protect the lead.

Ashley Cole was immense up against Ronaldo that night. And again in 2006.

[Devils_Advocate]

IMO what cost us in 2004 after Rooney’s injury was Sven pandering to the press. We were one up and Portugal were terrified of Rooney and dropping deep out of fear. Rooney got injured and we put the lightweight Vassell on and the ball was coming straight back for the remainder of the game. Sven should have stuck two fingers up at the press box and put the much vilified Heskey on at least our defence and midfield would have been able to get up the pitch and protect the lead.

Ashley Cole was immense up against Ronaldo that night. And again in 2006.

Yep that substitution cost us but Vassell came on in the previous game maybe even the previous two and looked ace. Think that got him the nod but the situation needed something different and Sven made a mistake. (although technically but for a shocker of a reffing decision we did win that match in the end)

I disagree Sven pandered to the press and he made some real brave decisions like the Rooney one where he threw an untried kid into the critical qualifier which nobody expected.

Sven was unpopular for being Foreign and a lot of rubbish was printed about him which now gets remembered as fact hence people remembering the average 90 and 96 teams but not the 2004 one

[RocketLawnChair]

Yep that substitution cost us but Vassell came on in the previous game maybe even the previous two and looked ace. Think that got him the nod but the situation needed something different and Sven made a mistake. (although technically but for a shocker of a reffing decision we did win that match in the end)

I disagree Sven pandered to the press and he made some real brave decisions like the Rooney one where he threw an untried kid into the critical qualifier which nobody expected.

Sven was unpopular for being Foreign and a lot of rubbish was printed about him which now gets remembered as fact hence people remembering the average 90 and 96 teams but not the 2004 one

When I say pander to the press I just mean that Heskey was a real target for them (the press) so just regards to that really I’m convinced Sven didn’t put him on because of that. I didn’t mind Sven’s tenure tbh we were quite good at times.

I agree with you DA with regards to 1990 and 1996 we played well twice in both tournaments. In 1990 we were terrible against Ireland good against Holland terrible against Egypt poor against Belgium and Cameroon Excellent against West Germany.

In 1996 Terrible against the Swiss poor against Scotland (should have lost both IMO) Amazing against Holland poor against Spain excellent against the Germans.

[FactualFrank]

Ashley Cole was immense up against Ronaldo that night. And again in 2006.

Ashley Cole marked Ronaldo out of every game he came up against. I can count at least 3.

[Devils_Advocate]

When I say pander to the press I just mean that Heskey was a real target for them (the press) so just regards to that really I’m convinced Sven didn’t put him on because of that. I didn’t mind Sven’s tenure tbh we were quite good at times.

I agree with you DA with regards to 1990 and 1996 we played well twice in both tournaments. In 1990 we were terrible against Ireland good against Holland terrible against Egypt poor against Belgium and Cameroon Excellent against West Germany.

In 1996 Terrible against the Swiss poor against Scotland (should have lost both IMO) Amazing against Holland poor against Spain excellent against the Germans.

Fair enough sounds like have pretty much the same views everything youve mentioned above

[TVC15]

Yep the side around 2004 was very talented and probably as good as any team in the world at that time.
I remember watching a great game against Argentina which England won 3-2. It was a friendly but was extremely competitive and Argentina had a very good side. England were brilliant and Rooney gave a performance in that game that made me think that he was as good as anything in the world at that time.

Italy won the World Cup in 2006 and England went out in the quarters to Portugal on penalties. Italy had some good players and Lippi got them all playing and Germany as host nation also looked great until getting beat in semis by Italy. But England at that time were as good as any of the teams.
England team for that game v Argentina was :

Robinson, Young (Crouch 80), Terry, Ferdinand, Bridge (Konchesky 46), Lampard, King (Cole 58), Beckham, Gerrard, Rooney, Owen.

[RocketLawnChair]

Fair enough sounds like have pretty much the same views everything youve mentioned above

I actually thought Bobby Robson got a tad lucky at times in tournements DA. Wilkins getting sent off in 1986 meant he was forced into a change he simply wouldn’t have made.The same in 1990 with Bryan Robson’s injury. Robson’s flame as a player was dimming but no way would Bobby have left him out and McMahon’s **** up against the Irish made him unpickable and so we ended up with Gascoigne and Platt in the middle!!

[FactualFrank]

Had England been a world beater, I'd know about it. We were nowhere near like a world beater in 2014. We might have played the odd decent game, but we were never close to being the best in the world. Not a chance. This is the best we have played in 30 years. We were lucky in 1990. And we hosted the thing in 1996!

[Devils_Advocate]

I actually thought Bobby Robson got a tad lucky at times in tournements DA. Wilkins getting sent off in 1986 meant he was forced into a change he simply wouldn’t have made.The same in 1990 with Bryan Robson’s injury. Robson’s flame as a player was dimming but no way would Bobby have left him out and McMahon’s **** up against the Irish made him unpickable and so ended up with Gascoigne and Platt in the middle!!

Our qualifying campaign for 90 was one of the most dullest affairs ever and it didnt improve in the group stages in Italy. Without playing great the Belgium and Cameroon games were exciting so with the Gazza effect and a very good performance against the Germans its very easy to remember it more fondly than in truth it really was. After the Ireland game I think the press were savage with Bobby and really wanted him out

[CoolClaret]

2004 was the best side we have had at least since 66. However we didnt get the luck you sonetimes need. Rooneys injury and another disallowed Campbell goal that shouldve stood. Gerrard cocking up late on in the group against France cost us as well.


Neville
Campbell (Ferdinand banned)
Terry
Ashley Cole
Beckham
Scholes
Gerrard
Owen
Rooney
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves

Thats half the entire squad that were top drawer and an equally good (at the time) manager. His only flaw was trying to fit all of that midfield together rather than how managers like Marcelo Lippi used to play. System first players decond.

Totally agree, Beckham was the poster boy but imagine if we played a diamond like this:

------------Cole (later to be Lampard when he broke onto the scene)
---Scholes---Gerrard
---------Hargreaves

With Cole & Neville as wingbacks?

Don't think it'd ever get much better

[CoolClaret]

Totally agree, Beckham was the poster boy but imagine if we played a diamond like this:

----------Cole (later to be Lampard when he broke onto the scene)
---Scholes---Gerrard
-------Hargreaves

With Cole & Neville as wingbacks?

Don't think it'd ever get much better

[Vegas Claret]

still criminal how England didn't get the best out of Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard

[CoolClaret]

Totally agree, Beckham was the poster boy but imagine if we played a diamond like this:

-----------Cole (later to be Lampard when he broke onto the scene)
---Scholes---Gerrard
--------Hargreaves

With Cole & Neville as wingbacks?

Don't think it'd ever get much better

[CoolClaret]

- I don't know what's going on, when I try to edit a post it's re submitting it as a new post....

[Vegas Claret]

- I don't know what's going on, when I try to edit a post it's re submitting it as a new post....

you sure you are pressing edit and not quote ?

[FactualFrank]

still criminal how England didn't get the best out of Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard

Lampard or Gerard would have been on the bench.

[RocketLawnChair]

Our qualifying campaign for 90 was one of the most dullest affairs ever and it didnt improve in the group stages in Italy. Without playing great the Belgium and Cameroon games were exciting so with the Gazza effect and a very good performance against the Germans its very easy to remember it more fondly than in truth it really was. After the Ireland game I think the press were savage with Bobby and really wanted him out

Bobby had already signed a pre contract was it with PSV as it was announced before the World Cup he would be leaving at the end of it no matter what. The press made a real issue of that after the Ireland performance.

[TVC15]

1990 I agree they were very lucky at times.against Cameroon they should have gone 3-1 down but for some reason Oman Byek trying to back heel an open net into the goal.

The first time they played really well was actually in the semi final v Germany....and England played very well that game and were unlucky not to win.

The best side in that World Cup was Italy but as in many world cups it’s often not the best side that wins it.

Re this current team I agree that there is a lot to like. The side has a lot of pace and seem to be playing without fear. I don’t think it’s a particularly great time in international football with many of the big teams going through transition - Germany, Spain, Argentina, Italy etc.

Some of the big players like Ronaldo Messi, Muller are reaching the end of their careers also.

The managers can make a massive difference. Look at Holland’s recent results - they have had some great victories after probably the worst few years in decades for them.

I reckon the next 2 or 3 major tournaments will be England’s best chance of winning a trophy for a long time.

Oh and btw if we are talking about good England sides that could have won a tournament the 1970 side was a great side - better than the 66 one. Not saying they could have beaten Brazil but England should have been in the final and would have made a closer game of it than Italy.

[FactualFrank]

1990 I agree they were very lucky at times.against Cameroon they should have gone 3-1 down but for some reason Oman Byek trying to back heel an open net into the goal.

The first time they played really well was actually in the semi final v Germany....and England played very well that game and were unlucky not to win.

The best side in that World Cup was Italy but as in many world cups it’s often not the best side that wins it.

Re this current team I agree that there is a lot to like. The side has a lot of pace and seem to be playing without fear. I don’t think it’s a particularly great time in international football with many of the big teams going through transition - Germany, Spain, Argentina, Italy etc.

Some of the big players like Ronaldo Messi, Muller are reaching the end of their careers also.

The managers can make a massive difference. Look at Holland’s recent results - they have had some great victories after probably the worst few years in decades for them.

I reckon the next 2 or 3 major tournaments will be England’s best chance of winning a trophy for a long time.

Oh and btw if we are talking about good England sides that could have won a tournament the 1970 side was a great side - better than the 66 one. Not saying they could have beaten Brazil but England should have been in the final and would have made a closer game of it than Italy.

I always sense a 'but' when you give your opinion. I'm waiting for the "yeah we did bloody brilliant.." BUT..

It's like you expect the worst to always happen. Like good things never happen to people and it won't happen because that's just how life is. Why don't we just take things at face value? Rewind back a few months and this forum was FULL of flicking their wrists over how good Modric is. He was was marked out of the game today! I never really saw him - because of us! Because of how superb England was.

We ran the show. It's NOT because we got lucky. We should have won 4-1. We dominated. But posters either comment on how we got lucky, or that they aren't watching! It's pathetic. We won and we deserved to win - we were bloody brilliant. If Burnley pressed like England did today, we would stay up. it's a chess game, and checked mate.

[TVC15]

No “but” FF
I love international football and followed it closely all my life. I’m an Italy supporter not an English one because of my family background. Following Italy it’s easy to understand why the manager can make a big difference and also how the team spirit and love of playing for your country (bit like Croatia recently and Italy have done lots of times) can take you further than the individual talents of your players.

I thought England were brilliant today and think Southgate is doing a great job. He’s seems to have united the group of players and the cliques of United, Chelsea or Liverpool players like in the past have gone. On top of this they do have done genuinely talented and exciting young players who do not have the burden or expectations of Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc.

As I said whilst some of the other teams are having to rebuild England are on the up already. By the time of the next Euros I can see them being as high as second or third in the world rankings and deservedly have a big chance of winning the Euros.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Totally agree, Beckham was the poster boy but imagine if we played a diamond like this:

------------Cole (later to be Lampard when he broke onto the scene)
---Scholes---Gerrard
---------Hargreaves

With Cole & Neville as wingbacks?

Don't think it'd ever get much better

The problem was always trying to fit Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes in. But we should always have started Beckham imo. He was the poster boy and captain. But in my opinion he is the best England player of my lifetime. Partly because of talent and partly because of how committed he was. The most dedicated player ive ever seen for England.

He could easily have tossed it off. Like Giggs did for Wales. But what we couldve achieved if Scholes or Rio and one or two others had the same commitment.

I guess the main issue was not having the same ability for balance on the left.

Shame McManaman wasnt consistent enough. As a midfield of Beckham Scholes (or Lampard or Gerrard) Hargreaves McManaman wouldve had everything for me behind Owen and Rooney.

[Bosscat]

Do you actually understand what hoofball is ?
I wish we did play like England

There were several phases in the match today we said it was like watching Burnley

[Bosscat]

- I don't know what's going on, when I try to edit a post it's re submitting it as a new post....

You having fun coolC