Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

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# 1
claretgimmer
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby claretgimmer » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:32 am

Hart 4 Not to blame for goals but glued to his line, poor decision making doesn't give confidence to our defence like Heaton.
Lowton 4 Way off defensively and poor crossing from good positions
Mee 5 blew hot and cold today, dare I say he misses Heaton
Long 7 My MOM did a good job without much support.
Taylor 4 poor defensively and crossing was poor.
Lennon 4 some good defensive work but sh*t going forward yet he's supposed to be a 'winger'.
Cork 4 Some good things some not so good Looked like he is running on half full.
Defour 5 Was hoping he would stamp his authority on games but having static forwards in front of him and few options either side don`t help
Brady 3 Dreadful. Pi^^ poor corners and free kicks
Wood 4 Static with poor control, we have better than him Shaun, try friggin using them
Vokes 7 some good hold up play and the goal, just lacks pace but you always get 100% off Sam

Dyche 3 Predictable tatics and not a clue how to change it round. Maybe he has run his course, not good enough. We need some fresh eyes to look at the squad and some fresh ideas playing wise because what we are witnessing is woeful at best no matter how his buzz words in interviews try to dress it up. This squad under Dyche will be relegated by Jan, maybe it`s time for the board to stand up and be counted before the transfer window.

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BabylonClaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby BabylonClaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:57 am

Pretty dull affair tonight. On occasions we did try and up the tempp and at that point looked half decent. But all too often its too pedestrian. Newcastle arent a great side and yet fairly comfortably pushed us aside.

Leicester potted their Championship winning manager when the wheels were falling off and the chnage was enoigh of a kick up tbe arse to keep them up. We may have to do the same - no idea who would come in but the Board need to start making a short list. And before anyone says noone could do a better job with what we have than Sean just have a look at who's above us in the table.

Ratings
Hart 6 nothi g to do other than pick out the ball from the net
Lowton 6 alright
Long 7 decent gamr i think
Mee 6 - i din think he trusts Hart
Taylor 5 - too hesitant going forward but to be fair was hamstrung by the player in front of him
Lennon 7 - played well
Cork 5 - crablike
Defour 4 - as Cork but with less stamina
Brady 3 - absilutely notjing came off for him tonight
Vokes 7 - worked gard. Good goal but spurned a vlorious chance to pinch an equaliser
Wood 6 - played well but just needs to take one of those chances.

Subs were far tio little too late - a crime. Hard for Sean to decide how to replace Brady but he needed ti be bold. Tonight he kaffled out like half the side.

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careyclaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby careyclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:55 am

Hart. 5. Not at fault for either goal but please come off your line!
Lowton. 7. Lots of low scores on here but thought he did okay defensively and going forward
Mee. 7. Pretty commanding throughout and not at fault for the goal.
Taylor. 6. Much more of an attacking threat than Brady
Brady. 3. Just awful. Hugged the touchline but passed the ball backwards every time he got it
Cork. 5. Very inconsistent
Defour. 5. Some tidy touches but was so deep, it was difficult to have an impact
Lennon. 6. Superb defensively but the first time he took a man on was in the 93rd minute
Wood. 5. Seems lacking in confidence
Vokes. 7. Mom. Held the ball up well and very nice goal

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Joeandy1920
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Joeandy1920 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:34 am

Hart 6
Lowton 5
Long 7
Mee 6
Taylor 5
Lennon 6
Defour 5
Cork 5
Brady 5
Wood 5
Vokes 6

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IanMcL
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby IanMcL » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:53 am

Home just after 3am, despite lots of fog. Phew!
Lots of harsh marking on here.

Hart 5
Lowton 6
Long 7
Mee 8
Taylor 6
Lennon 6
Defour 8
Cork 6
Brady 4 coward! If anyone close to him, it is a flick away, rather than risk being tackled. Poor corners and crosses.
Wood 7
Vokes 8
Thought we did ok, although a bit pedestrian.

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maidenover
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby maidenover » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:23 am

Hart 5
Lowton 4
Long 8
Mee 5
Taylor 5
Lennon 7
Defour 4
Cork 4
Brady 3
Wood 4
Vokes 7

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kaptin1
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby kaptin1 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:37 am

Hart 6
Lowton 4
Long 5
Mee 6
Taylor 5
Lennon 6
Defour 6
Cork 5
Brady 3
Wood 5
Vokes 7 (+1 for goal)

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MACCA
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby MACCA » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:02 am

Hart 6 2nd goal looked iffy,and I'm starting to think it's not a coincidence we look so vulnerable at the back with him there. Whether it's organisation, confidence or communication, the back 5 don't seem to be in the same page.
Lowton 6 thought he had an ok first half, 1 of our more creative players
Long 6
Mee 6
Taylor 6
Lennon 6 defensive shift again, and that block on the penalty spot showed his effort for the role.
Defour 6 very little in terms of creativity.
Cork 5 as above, although extreamly sloppy in posession
Brady 4 a really poor game from him.
Wood 5 had 2 or 3 decent chances, that on another day go in
Vokes 7 put himself about, some great good up play, and wow, what a header.

Another poor home display, and I really can't see when, or even how we are ever going to put a mini run togetger to get out of this nose dive. It only looks like ending 1 way at the minute.

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Dom
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Dom » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:44 am

Hart - 5 - I'd change and give Heaton a chance, Hart's organisation isn't as good as Heaton's. I'd ideally want Pope back in but Heaton is the fitter one.
Lowton - 5 - Defensively and offensively poor.
Long - 6 - Did OK.
Mee - 6 - Did OK but he cuts a frustrated figure, one point in the second half gave Taylor a barrage of **** because Taylor was yet again offering nothing.
Taylor - 4 - Poorest of the defensive and a hindrance going forward.
Lennon - 6 - Defensively worked hard, tried making things happen but his running and spacial awareness seemed to let him down.
Brady - 3 - **** display, lost the ball a few times in the first 10 minutes then disappeared, only to reappear to overhit a simple ball out of play. Cowardly went in for the 50-50, **** poor.
Defour - 6 - He looks annoyed most of the game with the lack of running/movement in front of him, but then he played stupid balls to players that weren't there.
Cork - 5 - Gave the ball away too frequently.
Vokes - 7* - Only one to put in a decent performance.
Wood - 5 - Had a few chances he should have done better with.

Dyche needs to change things and fast, we look to have no confidence and the system, sorry framework, has been found out by other managers. We need a tweak otherwise it's relegation time. I think we'll pick up 3 points before New Year. We're in trouble.

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Bfcshaun
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Bfcshaun » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:55 am

Very poor performance, our season hasn't got started and things need freshening up. That being either team changes, formation or tactics.
Hart 5- little bit on heels for both goals but not seeming to communicate with back 4 and certainly not commanding area. The silly neur routine late on was embarrassing.
Lowton 5- crossing way off and decidedly dodgy at times defensively.
Long 7- the best of the back 4 but that wasn't hard.
Mee 6- at fault for second goal, didn't attack the ball and Clark had free header.
Taylor 4- didn't provide an outlet and looks uncomfortable against any sort of pressure.
Cork 5- looked a little better than previously this season (in league) but still nowhere near last season.
Defour 5- tried to press early on in first half when wood was a passenger, still not up to speed though.
Lennon 5- tucks in to much and nullifies his attacking intent. Worked hard defensively.
Brady 3- a bit tough on him after being out for so long but couldn't find a claret shirt all night and crossing from open play and set pieces were woefully inadequate.
Wood 4- missed two chances, one half chance (where the finish was poor) and another poor header from corner lead to Newcastle first.
Vokes 6- great headed goal and more of a nuisance than wood but should have done better with last minute chance.

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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:02 am

First, we are getting no luck at all (their first goal) and we probably did enough to get something from the game BUT the intensity (apart from the end of both halves) was nowhere near good enough for this level. We can patiently pass it across the back till the cows come home, but unless our front four are absolutely buzzing around to create space, we are always going to end up booting it forwards. And we seem to be incapable of passing it quickly so we got caught in possession far too often.

Secondly, Wood was could have had four goals tonight. Yes, he missed them (two good saves) but he's in the right place to be there. There is hope in the Vokes-Wood partnership, but only if we can make sure we are piling accurate crosses into the middle. We are really struggling to do that at the moment and the onus is on Lennon. Brady Taylor and Lowton to provide them

Thirdly, we massively missed Gudmundsson. He's our best winger by a mile

We have to cut out the mistakes. Newcastle could have scored two more directly due to errors, and the two they did score where because we gave the ball away cheaply under little pressure and headed a corner away for another corner when it was easily to just clear it. Yes, we are being punished but we need to cut them out.

Still hopeful that we will be ok

Hart 6 - nothing to do, but I want him to command his area more
Lowton 6 - has to be more accurate with his crossing
Mee 6 - solid enough
Long 7* - completely nullified Rondon
Taylor 5 - ok, but dunno what he was doing when we almost presented them with a 3rd
Lennon 6 - has to be given a license to run at his full back. He's getting at best one chance a game which is wasting his entire game
Cork 6 - some good, but has not enough options on the ball to release the quick pass, and he's running in treacle at the moment
Defour 6 - as Cork, but noticeable that he was solo pressing and wondering why no one else was doing it
Brady 4 - coming back from injury, but he wasn't good - culpable for the first
Wood 5 - loses a point for missing the chances, but to actually have the chances is a positive
Vokes 7 - scored a wonder header and held the ball up well

Subs - not on long enough, and lets be honest, Hendrick should have been on a lot sooner and why bother bringing Barnes on?

SD relies on his team doing what they are told, and reacting to situations. We are doing neither at the moment and I know its a lot to do with confidence, but if the players are not performing, he can't keep sending the same ones out to execute the same old tactical plan. He has to be innovative.

Oh, and I hope the referees assessor is ok.
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TVC15
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby TVC15 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:18 am

At the moment we are the worst side in this league - and it’s hard to see how we get ourselves out of it with the players we have got and the system the manager persists with. My only slight glimmer of hope is that we cannot turn into such a poor side within a few months and that our confidence levels can only go up from the rock bottom place we are now.

Hart 4 - the way he stays on his line is having a massive impact on our team compared to Pope’s command of his area.
Lowton 5 - one of our better players but we need him further up the pitch getting crosses in.
Long 6 - coped with Rondon well which before the game I thought would be our biggest problem
Mee 4 - too many really basic mistakes
Taylor 5 - thought he did ok tbh
Lennon 4 - i’m scoring him low because he is not playing like a winger should be...and it’s having a big impact on our game and Lowtons game also
Defour 5 - not setting the pace of our game like he should be.
Cork 5 - he could not have tried any harder than he did. He did well in that first half and was at the heart of all our play but then a couple of things went wrong for him and just escalated in the second half. He’s either deaf or nobody is shouting “man on” !!
Brady 4 - not much went right for him and did not like the way he pulled out of a couple of challenges
Wood 5 - thought he was a bit better than recent but missed a couple of great chances
Vokes 7 - great goal and never stopped all night.

Dyche - we had at least 3 players blowing out of their backsides with 20 minutes to go (Vokes, Brady, Cork) and the likes of Lennon and Wood not playing great yet we choose to make substitutions so late again. I just do not get it and it is so frustrating for the fans and the players no doubt. It’s a mystery to me why McNeil is not on the bench - WTF is Bardsley going to do coming on and even if we had an injury to a defender we had Gibson on bench.

Oh and one more thing - would really love to know why Barnes is taking a corner for us in injury time when we have players on the pitch like Lowton.

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JohnMac
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby JohnMac » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:27 am

Hart 6
Lowton 5
Long 6
Mee 6
Taylor 6
Lennon 6
Cork 5
Defour 5
Brady 4
Wood 5
Vokes 6

An inept display that starts and ends at the feet of the Manager.

Negative line up, negative tactics, negative impact from the bench.

Brady put in a performance tonight bordering on the worst display from a Claret since Dyche took over. Allowing for fitness, tactics and every other excuse under the sun, he didn't even look like a footballer at times. Several times he gave the ball away without being under any pressure whatsoever.

Why it took 82 minutes to address this is just mind boggling. There is a mini conference every few minutes in the technical area.
What are they watching?
What are they talking about?
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ashtonlongsider
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby ashtonlongsider » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:42 am

Hart 5- Not done much wrong but we need Heaton back if only to organise our defence.
Lowton 6-Reasonably consistent but playing in a back four unit lacking in confidence.
Long 7-One of our stronger performers on the night.
Mee 5-Certainly not his worst game this season but I'd like him to show his supposed leadership qualities a bit more.
Taylor 5-Ok going forward but defensively woeful at times.
Lennon 7-Did well, pity it took until the 92 min to get down to the bye-line, but in all honesty probably not his fault.
Defour 7-Felt he did ok, at least he found Claret shirts with passes.
Cork 5-A little indifferent but to his credit he was always available for the ball. Needs to play deeper for me.
Brady 3-Thought he was very poor, partly Dyche's fault he wasn't hooked a long time before he actually was.
Wood 4- Should be nowhere near a starting place IMO.
Vokes 7*-Played his socks off and fully committed to the cause. Please Sean play him with Vydra on Saturday.

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Darthlaw
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Darthlaw » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:53 am

Hart 6 - Nothing he could do with the goals and distribution was off until he moved outfield.
Lowton 6 - Tried and gave our best crosses into the box.
Taylor 6 - Crossing was off but got up and down the pitch well. Seems to be suffering from not wanting to go forwards, whether this is tactical or confidence is up for discussion.
Mee 6 - Lost his man for their second and generally lax, slow passing. +1 for the assist on Vokes goal.
Long 7 - Played really well. Coped with Rondon and generally kept his man quiet.
Defour 6 - Looking for passes but there was often no one between him and the edge of the penalty box.
Cork 3 - Woeful. Passing loose, slowed play and was often caught in possession. (I could copy and paste this from many other Cork performances this season.)
Lennon 5 - Seems to hide behind players and doesn't show willing to use his pace and beat a man. Did get back for a crucial interception in the first half.
Vokes 7 - Did well and deserved his goal.
Wood 5 - Asked to track back into a number 10 role which is no good when his second touch is a tackle. All his shots went straight at the keeper. Shame we don't have a natural number 10 on the bench...
Brady 3 - Did him and Cork pick up each others boots? Passing off and caught in possession. His hesitance to go in for 50/50's, whilst understandable, has cost us tonight and will cost him a top flight career unless he can regain his confidence, unfortunately.

I just don't get this tactic of ponderously rolling the ball across the back line, other than to squeeze the opposition into their own half and close the spaces. Either pass it quickly and move players out of position or lump it and get ready for knock downs. This current tactic of slowly rolling the ball between the centre halves, allowing the opposition to organise their defence, is as boring as it is ineffective.

As for whether Vydra has had a go on Dyche's wife or something, lord only knows what he has to do to get a game. Sean's stubbornness to change it until his hand is forced through injury is proving quite tiresome currently, though.

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claretspice
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby claretspice » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:00 am

The good news - we probably did enough to get a point, at least, overall on the balance of the game. The bad news - this was against an indifferent Newcastle side, and it cannot mask the fact that this was one of the most muddled and incoherent performances of the Dyche era.

Hart - 5 - Thought he might have done better with the second goal, and the number of goals he's now conceded having barely moved is becoming a cause for concern. Other than that, he was largely unemployed, but he's not instilling confidence with his demeanour and approach.

Lowton - 6 - Used the ball nicely enough in general play, but his crossing was woeful and his defending was a bit suspect more than once.

Taylor - 5 - A bit suspect defensively although he stood up well enough, but he was another guilty of passing up a lot of good crossing opportunities.

Long - 7 - He's never going to be refined, but he defended well and showed grit, strength and a bit of nous.

Mee - 7 - Solid enough, would like to see the second Newcastle goal again.

Cork - 5 - I don't think anyone could fault his willingness to battle, and he generally recycled the ball OK, but at times he looks as though he's stuck in one of those Hollywood action sequences where the hero is running to/from the event in slow motion. Something is not quite right there.

Defour - 7 - Until he tired late on, I thought he showed drive and quality - the only one really trying to set a tempo with and without the ball, although even he is guilty of wanting the slow the game down a bit too much on occasions. But he needs more movement ahead of him than we offered tonight.

Lennon - 6 - Thought he showed lots of defensive willingness, but on several occasions in the first half, including before the first goal, Newcastle exploited him falling asleep and not tracking the wing-back to swing 40 yard passes that took him and Lowton out of the game. Going forwards, he was probably our brightest creative spark with 2 or 3 lively runs and some smart passes.

Brady - 3 - The body was willing, but this was as poor a performance on the ball as you'll see from a Premier League player and his movement lacked real dynamism at times. Needs more time following his lay-off, but it was hope over evidence that kept him on the pitch as long as was.

Wood - 4 - No problem with him missing chances, that happens. But his general link up play was pretty dire - I think I saw him make a lung-bursting run into the channel behind the wing back once (the ball went out of play), and clearly he was never comfortable when he came short, and as a result he was completely ineffective.

Vokes - 7 - Tremendous header to get us back into the game, and generally held the ball up well enough, but again, he needs movers around him to pull the opposition around.

Subs - remarkably, none of them were on long enough, but seeing Barnes end up taking a corner in injury time when we had the keeper up with all the lack of quality you'd expect, summed up the general malaise a bit.


For the first time in the Dyche era, I reckon I saw a performance last night when the team performance was significantly less than the sum of the individual parts. The back 4 all did OK, individually, defensively; yet on the (relatively rare) occasions when Newcastle put us under pressure, collectively we looked vulnerable. Defour and Lennon in particular did OK going forwards, Wood got into goalscoring positions and Vokes had a strong game; yet as a team you'd have to say our attacking method was muddled and ineffective.

Playing Wood and Vokes up front? OK, clearly the game plan is going to be to set up positions for long diagonals and get third man runners off them, missing out midfield. But if you're doing that, you don't get the best out of Steven Defour. If you've got Steven Defour, you need runners capable of dropping into pockets of space to run at the back 3 or get down the sides of it, not two twin statues up front. You also need a bit more support in midfield or else the relatively slow-paced pairing of him and Cork will be overrun. We saw that too often the second balls were collected easily by Newcastle.

Vydra was therefore the obvious change, although an alternative might have been to stick Brady in the hole with Hendrick bolstering the wide midfield area, or even trying Barnes. In the end, when the change did come on, we lined ourselves up to launch crosses into the box for 10 minutes whilst taking off our two best crossers and dead-ball specialists. No surprise then that the last 10 minutes descended into farce, with Hart's comedy turn the only real highlight amongst the gallows humour.

But for all that, we did create chances and if we'd got a goal earlier in the second half, we might well have gone onto win it. It's papering over the cracks a bit, but the performances on the pitch individually aren't that far away. Perhaps its more concerning that its the overall method that looks a bit off.

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Indecisive
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Indecisive » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:07 am

A poor performance by a team that at the moment, almost to a man, are well below par.

A lot of hope was put on Brady and Defour returning. In hindsight it was probably unrealistic to expect them to
hit the ground running. Can only hope Brady getting some minutes yesterday helps move him in the right direction, he was just woeful yesterday...as bad as I’ve seen from a player at this level.

Hart-5 there’s something not quite right. He doesn’t command the area and doesn’t come for crosses enough. I really hope Pope returns with last years standards... he could make the difference in what is shaping up to be a tough relegation battle.

Lawton- 6. Felt he did ok. Didn’t shy away from the ball. He looked to attack the line. By no means his best, but his wasn’t a horror show

Long- 7 Decent in a job he relishes. For me he’s been a rare positive of the season so far. Steps up to the plate and has a great attitude

Mee- 6. Fine. Brought the ball out of the defence a bit. I’d like to see a bit more leadership and rallying of the troops on the pitch. Felt that was missing last night, particularly after the first sucker punch goal.

Taylor- 5. When he got forward the final ball wasn’t the best. Seemed to be played into the box behind the attackers.

Lennon- 5. Ran at players once or twice. No where near enough and we just don’t play to his strength.

Cork- 5. Plus one for the effort. For impact on the games it’s probably more a 4. He’s trying. He just seems to have lost an edge. Ball doesn’t stick to him like it did. Looks off the pace. Only slightly, but that half a yard is makes a huge difference to his effectiveness.

Defour- 4. Really poor performance from someone who we expect a lot from. He’s not found his feet yet. Hopefully he will soon. Hard for him to find the right balls though when there’s not a huge amount of movement ahead of him.

Brady- 3. Awful. Fingers crossed it’s just time he needs. He knew he was not up to speed. He was massively hiding at times, and was kept on the pitch for far far too long

Wood- 4. Had a couple of chances he should have finished off. Looks laboured. Not an inspiring pairing up front with vokes. We need a bit of pace.

Vokes- 7. MOM. Scored a good goal. Another one who puts the effort in, even if he isn’t always effective. Felt he was harshly treated by the ref a few times last night. Shame he couldn’t get that header down at the end. He deserved that, if not the team.

People pay their money and have a right to express their opinion. The moans, groans and boos just don’t have a positive effect though. They never have. We somehow need to lift the cloud around the club at the minute....easier said then done.

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JohnMcGreal
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby JohnMcGreal » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:19 am

Hart 5
Lowton 5
Long 6
Mee 5
Taylor 4
Lennon 6
Defour 4
Cork 4
Brady 4
Wood 5
Vokes 7

Not the worst we've played this season but still not good enough. A dreadful result that puts us bang in trouble.

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Im_not_Robbie_Blake
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Im_not_Robbie_Blake » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:49 am

Hart 6
Lowton 7
Long 8
Mee 7
Taylor 6
Lennon 7
Defour 7
Cork 8
Brady 5
Wood 6
Vokes 8

# 20
the_magic_rat
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby the_magic_rat » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:01 am

Hart 6

Lowton 7
Mee 7
Long 7
Taylor 6

Lennon 6
Cork 6
Defour 6
Brady 4

Wood 7
Vokes 8

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Papabendi
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Papabendi » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:07 am

[quote="claretspice"]The good news - we probably did enough to get a point.

I assume you think the final score should have been 4-4 then.

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quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:15 am

Hart – 6 no chance with the first, didn’t move for the 2nd. Not a lot else to do.

Lowton – 6 caught out by the long diagonal a few times but fine defensively and decent enough going forward. If anything, he got caught a couple of times being too far forward.

Long – 7 another decent, no frills game

Mee – 5 now holds the premier league record for underhit passes

Taylor – 6 becoming a solid, if unspectacular full back at this level, decent enough going forward again. And had to be with a non-entity in front of him.

Cork – 6 played some decent football in tight areas but the lack of options ahead of him meant he got caught a few times

Defour – 6 the difference in our football when he plays is immeasurable but like cork, the lack of options in front of him nullified him somewhat

Lennon – 6 excellent defensively, played some decent passes going forward and made some good runs where we bizarrely decided not to give him the ball. Lots of people saying he’s supposed to be a winger – he makes winger’s runs, we either don’t spot them or don’t use them.

Brady – 3 came over to apologise after hitting my uncle with a wayward shot in the warmup and it was downhill from there. Understandably rusty and a mystery as to why he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.

Vokes – 6 held it up well and scored with a superb header but he looked knackered after an hour and I don’t think I’m alone in hoping we don’t persist with his partnership with

Wood – 4 getting in the right positions but that’s where the good bits end. Dropping far too deep as well last night which isn’t ideal given his first touch is wack.


Strange game. We started well and got straight back at them after both goals. In parts we played some of our best football through midfield all season, moving it quickly as stretching Newcastle. Yet in other parts we looked laborious, a bit timid and gave the ball away cheaply. Mee and Brady in particular were guilty of underhitting simple passes or playing the ball behind the run of the man they were trying to find.

The lack of pace and movement up front is a worry with the two big lads making us far too predicatable. We were crying out for 451 with Hendrick/Vydra off Vokes because the midfield needs that third man to interchange with defour and cork when they break and having a player with good close control to play the ball to in those pockets is how we get ourselves quickly through the units.

Unquestionably a draw would have been a fair result on the balance of play but a lucky goal and poor one defensively so early on have given us too much to do. They had 2 shots on target all night and both went in. As ever its fine margins and we’re on the wrong side of them at the moment but we really aren’t helping ourselves. The only way to fix it is hard work on the training ground and everyone pulling together.
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# 23
Bordeauxclaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Bordeauxclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:28 am

quoonbeatz wrote:Brady – 3 came over to apologise after hitting my uncle with a wayward shot in the warmup and it was downhill from there. Understandably rusty and a mystery as to why he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.


At least you can take comfort in the fact he definitely wasn’t aiming for him judging on his performance yesterday.

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Goddy
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Goddy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:29 am

Hart 5
Lowton 5
Long 9* MOM - did nothing wrong (maybe I should score him 10?) and kept Rondon out of the game
Mee 6
Taylor 6
Lennon 5 - defensively poor. The number of times caught out for Pritchard to get in....... As for any attacking intent (sighs)
Defour 6 - still looks head and shoulders above everyone else but needs support
Cork 4 - I winced every time he got the ball (as he was just too slow and gave it away too often)
Brady 4
Wood 4 - not only missed chances but (in my view) poor defensive header for their first goal
Vokes 7

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TVC15
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby TVC15 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:32 am

Quoon - they missed an open net from one yard and hit the post with a one on one from 10 yards....they also had an open net at the end (albeit from 40 yards out). Newcastle are not a good side by any stretch of the imagination but they looked far more like to score last night than we did.

In respect of Lennon the reason why people are questioning whether he is a winger is because very often in a game he is hiding...hiding in as he does not put himself in a position where we can give him the ball. How many times was he on the touchline stood a couple of yards away from Lowton when we were crying out for a ball to go into the channel. The other thing a winger tends to do is take on his man...Lennon waited till the 94th minute before he took on Ritchie with his main asset of pushing it on the outside of the player. He skinned him but its way too little too late.
It maybe that he is under instruction from Dyche to play like this...but personally I think its a confidence thing or he has lost some of his pace (probably a bit of both)

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Papabendi
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Papabendi » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:40 am

From TV a few things stand out:

- No genuine width from the wide players - they constantly go inside when the full backs attack, meaning no overlaps possible
- Throw ins take an age and usually take us back 20 yards at least in attacking positions
- Cork has become a problem in the middle, loses the ball too often, too lightweight to play in a midfield 2 with Defour
- We are all over the place defensively in transition when chasing a game. In part this is due to a lack of pace in the team.

That said, the performance overall was far from the worst I've seen, and there are a few positives - going forward, we did at least create some openings.

Hart 5

Lowton 6
Mee 7
Long 7
Taylor 6

Lennon 6
Cork 5
Defour 6
Brady 3

Wood 6
Vokes 7

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Mala591
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Mala591 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:44 am

Hart 6
Lowton 6
Long 7 (good performance)
Mee 6
Taylor 6
Lennon 7 as a right back 5 as a winger - so 6
Defour 6 (is slowly improving)
Cork 6 (worked hard)
Brady 4 (not ready for first team yet)
Vokes 7
Wood 6

Reasonable individual performances but very disjointed as a team
Not enough intelligent movement off the ball
Poor quality crosses
We seem to have forgotten one of the simplest and most effective football moves - the one two pass
Last edited by Mala591 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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claretspice
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby claretspice » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:45 am

Papabendi wrote:


Only if you think keepers aren't allowed to make a save. Newcastle had 4 chances - they scored 2 goals, one with the aid of a massive slice of luck, and the other two (which admittedly they should have scored because they were gilt edged chances) were a direct consequence of abysmal errors by us. But we were unfortunate to find ourselves behind at the interval given the balance of the game, and Wood had 4 presentable chances in the 90 minutes to score and only worked the keeper with the hardest of them. I've seen Burnley players score hat-tricks from lesser sights of goal.

Regarding width, funnily enough we've seen people criticise Lennon for coming too narrow, and playing too wide, in the space of 3 posts at the back end of this thread. One of our biggest problems last night wasn't getting into decent crossing positions - we did it fine - but the poverty of the delivery from Brady and the two full backs in particular.

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quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:48 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:At least you can take comfort in the fact he definitely wasn’t aiming for him judging on his performance yesterday.


very much so. it only hit him because someone in front deflected it.

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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:50 am

very much so. it only hit him because someone in front deflected it.


Wasn't Ben Mee was it?

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Dark Cloud
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Dark Cloud » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:54 am

Hart 7 (put in the best crosses of the match in the last 5 minutes)
Lowton 6 (I can only assume he's coming so far inside and leaving his winger far too much space because he's been told to!)
Mee 6
Long 7
Taylor 6 (defensively ok, but another player who can't cross a ball given countless opportunities)
Defour 7 (predictably ran out of steam and went for the early fag, but kept prompting us)
Cork 6
Brady 5 (crossing awful, even from set plays)
Lennon 6 (overall better, especially defensively from a bloke I think is a waste of space, but never beats anybody and crossing non existent)
Vokes 7
Wood 5 (I've generously added +1 because at least he got in positions where he could miss)

Subs N/A

Contrary to many I actually thought we played better than many games this season. We passed the ball better and even at 2-0 down we were the better team (which might not be saying much tbh!) We were unlucky with the first goal and if their goalie doesn't make a great save bang on half time things could have been so different. However, our crossing was nothing short of appalling, Wood fluffed his lines several times and SD constantly thinks Wood and Vokes can play together up front when even my cat knows it won't work. Plus he's got Barnes and perhaps more significantly Vydra sitting on their arses, but keeps ploughing the same old furrow HOPING something will happen. His reluctance to use subs and his lack of faith in Vydra in a situation like last night's second half is plain weird.

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SalisburyClaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby SalisburyClaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:55 am

Hart - 7 looked good going forward
Lowton - 8 our main creative outlet, crossed the ball more than the rest of the team put together
Long - 6 solid but dreadful distribution
Mee - 6 some good, some bad
Taylor -5 tried but so slow
Lennon -5 tracked back well but was often covering for his own mistakes. Non existent going forward
Defour 5 - tried but was out of position too often
Cork 7 - didn’t always come off but everything we did went through him
Brady 4 - poor
Wood 5 - at least he was in the right position for the chances but not sharp enough to be a starter in this league
Vokes 8* - excellent goal and created lots of scoring chances for his partner

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quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:56 am

TVC15 wrote:Quoon - they missed an open net from one yard and hit the post with a one on one from 10 yards....they also had an open net at the end (albeit from 40 yards out). Newcastle are not a good side by any stretch of the imagination but they looked far more like to score last night than we did.


we worked the goalkeeper three times and should have scored with the last touch of the game so swings and roundabouts. both sides could certainly claim that with better finishing they've scored more.

TVC15 wrote:In respect of Lennon the reason why people are questioning whether he is a winger is because very often in a game he is hiding...hiding in as he does not put himself in a position where we can give him the ball. How many times was he on the touchline stood a couple of yards away from Lowton when we were crying out for a ball to go into the channel. The other thing a winger tends to do is take on his man...Lennon waited till the 94th minute before he took on Ritchie with his main asset of pushing it on the outside of the player. He skinned him but its way too little too late.
It maybe that he is under instruction from Dyche to play like this...but personally I think its a confidence thing or he has lost some of his pace (probably a bit of both)


lennon has definitely lost some of his pace but i think its entirely wrong to suggest he hides. he's very often got two men in front of him - we have so few outlets usually both our wingers are doubled up on by teams who sit in a bit. i can think of at least 3-4 times last night where he'd set off down the line but the early ball didn't come.

instructions are definitely playing a part as well though, especially when he's inexplicably shifted to the left. he's very much a right winger.

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quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:58 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Wasn't Ben Mee was it?


no, he was busy swearing at the kids doing the flag waving.
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Lancasterclaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:00 am

Always amuses me when fans get upset at players who they have been screaming abuse at for 90 minutes

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claretonthecoast1882
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:04 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Always amuses me when fans get upset at players who they have been screaming abuse at for 90 minutes



Bit like the tool in the JHU when announced about the delay and the reason he mouthed "lets hope it is Hendrick" yet he got all upset when someone else told him to shut his ****ing mouth.

Strange how the ones who can never stop criticising and moaning start crying the minute they are given a bit back.
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TVC15
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby TVC15 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:13 am

quoonbeatz wrote:we worked the goalkeeper three times and should have scored with the last touch of the game so swings and roundabouts. both sides could certainly claim that with better finishing they've scored more.

Sam's chance at the end might have looked a lot better than it was....watching the replay this morning it was absolutely fizzed across by Taylor and was too high for Vokes to head it back down - he only just reached it. I'm not sure how he "should" have scored it...how do you head a ball back down that is too high for you ?
Wood had a shot in the first half which was inexplicably parried by their keeper. After seeing what he did with that straightforward effort we should have been shooting at him far more. The 2 main opportunities Newcastle missed were golden chances and a lot better than anything we made on the night. Vokes scored pretty much the equivalent of a "worldy" with his head and they scored a lucky goal...neither can be described as good chances. Wood hitting it at the keeper in second half was a good chance but came to him quickly and there were players in front of him. It was a much harder chance than Joselu`s and Ritchie`s might end up as the miss of the season and in the Ronnie Rosentail crimbo dvd !!



lennon has definitely lost some of his pace but i think its entirely wrong to suggest he hides. he's very often got two men in front of him - we have so few outlets usually both our wingers are doubled up on by teams who sit in a bit. i can think of at least 3-4 times last night where he'd set off down the line but the early ball didn't come.

instructions are definitely playing a part as well though, especially when he's inexplicably shifted to the left. he's very much a right winger.


We`ll have to agree to disagree on whether he is hiding....personally I (and many people who sit near me in the JML) think he is not offering himself for a pass and positioning himself too close to Lowton far too often. He does not take his man on anywhere near as much as he should or he has done in his career for other clubs. Crossing was never his strong point - it was his pace and getting to the byline / cutting it back. How many times has he done that in his time at Burnley ? To me that's hiding...or taking the easier option is probably a fairer description. We do not need a player like Lennon taking the easier option. I am definitely not in the camp of many fans who think he is useless. You do not have the career he has had by being useless. I also think he has a really good tough side...he is not afraid to go in hard and when he gets hit he just gets up and gets on with it. Just wish he was that "brave" with his decision making going forward.

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burnleymik
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby burnleymik » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:41 am

Hart 6 - Not much he could do with the goals. His passion at the end was clear for all to see. Maybe reckless, but definitely fighting for the team.
Lowton 5 - struggled. Their left winger got past him and whipped the ball in far too often. His positioning was poor throughout.
Long 7 - Some good tackles and shutting down of Newcastle moves.He did well.
Mee 6 - Defensively okay, but still mistakes, his big downfall was his passing. Woeful.
Taylor 5- weak tonight. Looked very reluctant to push to the byline on numerous occasions and looked shaky at the back.
Lennon 6 - had a couple of decent runs and tracked back okay, but he still goes missing too often for me.
Defour 7- Surprised at some of the low scores for him. When we pressing everything went though him and he was doing a good job of pressing, but he had a distinct lack of support around him. Was knackered after about 70 mins.
Cork 5 - Couple of decent moments early on in the first half, but then offered us hardly anything, including some woeful passing.
Brady 4 - surprised to see him even come out for the second half. Pulling out of tackles, poor deliveries from set pieces, poor passing just really off the pace tonight.
Wood 5 - confidence has gone. He should have had at least two.One nice nice run through into the box and instead of hitting it with his left, he tried to lay it off and gave it away. A striker should be hitting those 100% of the time.
Vokes 7 - Worked hard despite the lack of support. Wish he had taken his chances and he did well with the goal.

Dyche - 3. Was clear to every man and his dog that we needed changes early in the second half to freshen things up and get the deadwood off, instead he waited until it was pretty much all over. As for Vydra, has he slapped Dyche's wife or something, because his refusal to give the guy a chance is astounding.

I think it's time to mix things up with the team.Too many players under performing game after game.

# 39
quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:48 am

TVC15 wrote:Sam's chance at the end might have looked a lot better than it was....watching the replay this morning it was absolutely fizzed across by Taylor and was too high for Vokes to head it back down - he only just reached it. I'm not sure how he "should" have scored it...how do you head a ball back down that is too high for you ?
Wood had a shot in the first half which was inexplicably parried by their keeper. After seeing what he did with that straightforward effort we should have been shooting at him far more. The 2 main opportunities Newcastle missed were golden chances and a lot better than anything we made on the night. Vokes scored pretty much the equivalent of a "worldy" with his head and they scored a lucky goal...neither can be described as good chances. Wood hitting it at the keeper in second half was a good chance but came to him quickly and there were players in front of him. It was a much harder chance than Joselu`s and Ritchie`s might end up as the miss of the season and in the Ronnie Rosentail crimbo dvd !!


from memory, as i haven't seen any replays, i thought it was a difficult chance for sam and he was stretching but we also had two players behind him who might have been better placed. from that situation, i thought we should have scored but the cross came from my side of the JML so its perhaps hard to tell.

in terms of chances, the two newcastle missed were good chances but don't think they were better than any we had. wood has made the keeper pull off a smart save in the first half from close range and in the second he's shot right at the keeper, again from close range, then had another blocked by the keeper, again from close range. ironically, the only time he didn't work the keeper was our best chance of the night, created by lennon's cushioned volley, wood skyed it when he should have done much better.

we had good chances but there's a clear theme there in who they fell to.... finishing cost us again last night.

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Zesty
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Zesty » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:52 am

Hart 6 at fault for the second I think but ok. Bit silly coming out, but at least he showed passion. Fear he may be the problem this season, too much of a ego.
Lowton 7 played well
Long 7 solid as usual
Mee 5 not the best but improving
Taylor 6 decent game
Lennon 5 almost as if he’s been told not to run forward
Defour 6 played reasonably well
Cork 4 poor and slow
Brady 4 poor
Wood 6 just needs to finish, goals will come
Vokes 8 won most balls, good goal. Good touches

Not a terrible performance but worrying. Think we’ll be ok yet.

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Goobs
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Goobs » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:58 am

Hart 6 Nothing he could do about either goal and did everything else (what little there was) well enough. The witch-hunt against him by some on here is massively unfair. Personally I would rather see Pope in the goals but at the moment it is Hart's shirt to lose and he is nowhere near doing that, infact he has probably been our player of the season this far.
Lowton 6 Average game. Crossing let him down.
Taylor 5 Got away with one for the Richie miss and crossing was woeful. Seems laboured at times and would replace with Ward when he is fit again.
Mee 6 Just not where he was last couple of seasons and would be happy to see Gibson given a chance.
Long 7 MOM Solid, in the right place and looks more assured on the ball nowadays. Turning into quite a good player.
Defour 5 Passing was terrible in places but at least he kept showing for it and trying to make something happen
Cork 5 Spine of our team looks worryingly bad at the moment and Cork just doesn't seem on it. He's been worse this year but is still way off the standard expected. Would drop him for the next match.
Brady 4 Poor final ball and passing was not good. He needs time though so think he needs to be given a run in the team before we discard him.
Lennon 6 Just doesn't go at his man anywhere near enough, other than that an average performance.
Vokes 7 Played OK and got a nice goal. Some good touches, if he found the positions Wood does and had a bit more pace he'd be a top top striker.
Wood 5 Got in the positions to miss and he did just that.

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strayclaret
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby strayclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:00 pm

Hart 5
Lowton 5
Long 7
Mee 6
Taylor 6
Lennon 6
Defour 6
Cork 6
Brady 3
Wood 5
Vokes 7
Starting to join the school of thought that Joe, doesn’t seem to organise the defence.
Too slow approach work, Lennon marked out of game, Robbie oh dear, Wood was scoring them for fun at weeds, get Vydra on surely gives us more?

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TVC15
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby TVC15 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:05 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:in terms of chances, the two newcastle missed were good chances but don't think they were better than any we had.


I think you need to watch a replay of the game....have you had a bang on your head on the way home last night ?!!

They missed an open net from one yard....one yard and nobody in the net......about 3 foot and an empty net......!!!

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Sproggy
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Sproggy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:06 pm

Hart 5. Including +1 for the best cross of the game.
Lowton 5
Mee 6
Long 7*
Taylor 4
Lennon 5
Cork 5
Defour 6
Brady 3
Wood 5
Vokes 7

Why play two out and out centre forwards then try and play through midfield for most of the game? I'd understand the selection if we spent the game bombarding them with crosses. As it was there was nobody to link up play so we reverted to the Howe-esque pointless passing across the back four with an eventual and inevitable hopeful punt down the middle from Long or Mee.

And Newcastle were s***e.

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quoonbeatz
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:11 pm

TVC15 wrote:I think you need to watch a replay of the game....have you had a bang on your head on the way home last night ?!!

They missed an open net from one yard....one yard and nobody in the net......about 3 foot and an empty net......!!!


i think you're missing the point. ritchie's was a bad miss, no doubt (although from my angle he was slightly wide of the goal and lowton was close to him - it wasn't like, say, sterling's last season where he was more central.)

the point is that it terms of good chances, we had just as many as they did where you could say we should probably have scored.

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claretspice
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby claretspice » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:17 pm

Got to agree with Quoon here. Wood had 4 very good chances last night. He lashed the best of them in the general direction of Cliviger, shot straight at the keeper with a clear sight of goal from 8 yards, allowed the keeper/defender to smother another chance with a bad first touch 8 yards out, and lashed the most difficult chance straight into the top corner from 12 yards until the keeper intervened. As an aside, he was also denied another very clear sight of goal in the first half by a free kick wrongly given against Vokes. We're not talking half chances here, we're talking chances that a striker of Wood's record would expect to score as often as not.

Of course Newcastle could have scored 2 more, but they were both chances gifted on a plate by Burnley. That doesn't make them any less legitimate chances, but it is relevant to the broader question of which team themselves created the better chances on the night. The answer to that is Burnley - even if no one should let that mask the very obvious deficiencies on display last night.
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Tall Paul
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Tall Paul » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:17 pm

If only there were some sort of statistical model to evaluate how often particular types of chances are expected to result in a goal.

We could put these sort of arguments to bed.

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Ric_C
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Ric_C » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:19 pm

Wood, great chance in first half that the keeper tipped over.
Wood again one on one, good save by the keeper
Wood hitting over on the half volley when it looked a certain goal.
Vokes heading over from 2 yards in injury time

All gilt edge chances that would have been converted on another day.

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TVC15
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby TVC15 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:25 pm

quoonbeatz wrote:i think you're missing the point. ritchie's was a bad miss, no doubt (although from my angle he was slightly wide of the goal and lowton was close to him - it wasn't like, say, sterling's last season where he was more central.)

the point is that it terms of good chances, we had just as many as they did where you could say we should probably have scored.


Not missed your point at all - you said that you did not think Newcastles 2 good chances were better than Burnley`s chances when very very clearly they were easier chances. I know its all about opinions but this is stretching it to say the least. Ritchie`s miss was every bit as easy / bad as Sterlings last year. Even Joselu`s chance was a one on one in the area...can`t remember us having a one on one.

I do agree that we did not play as badly as some are making out and especially in the first half for long spells we looked really up for it without creating that much clear cut against what I thought was a really dodgy keeper and not their first pick centre halves.

Edited to include clip of Ritchie miss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8SYwbBndG4
Last edited by TVC15 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

# 50
Ric_C
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Re: Burnley v Newcastle - Player Ratings

Postby Ric_C » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:30 pm

Very average performance against a side who were there for the taking. Having said that, we didn't have much luck at all. The best chances Newcastle had were from our mistakes, and I'd say both goals conceded were as well.

Hart 5. We need a change in goal, starting to think he is cursed somehow.
Lowton 6. Best attacking outlet
Mee 6. ok, unlucky for the goal
Long 7. did well
Taylor 4. How many crosses did he play just behind the front 2?
Lennon 5. Effort is there, but so frustrating to watch
Cork 5. Not as bad as people have been saying
Defour 6. Looked to affect things, still not 100% match fit yet
Brady 3. Not ready yet. Our lack of transfer activity in the summer is biting us.
Wood 5. Missed 4 good chances, however at least he is getting in the positions to score.
Vokes 7. Great goal, overall play good.

Overall the team / squad is suffering from a combination of lack of confidence and fitness.

Seriously worrying and depressing.


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