Just to clear a few things up

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Bin Ont Turf
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Just to clear a few things up

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:33 pm

Don't mistake not being good enough with 'not trying', 'not putting a shift in' or 'being lazy'. I saw every Burnley player trying tonight.

Passing sideways and backwards is still part of the game. And when you have Vokes and Wood up front you hardly have a chance of banging in a 30 yard pass in behind the defence.

When Lennon was playing for Spurs and Everton he was playing with better players, which gave him more opportunities to run at the full back etc.
He's never been a good crosser of a ball.

Dummies back in the pram and put the crystal balls away.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Vegas Claret » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:40 pm

how many times did Lennon, Brady, Taylor try and get to the touchline and provide service ? once ?

Lennon did it right at the end, he's good enough to do it because he left Ritchie for dead - so why for the previous 90 mins did he go backwards ?
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by RocketLawnChair » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 pm

Fair enough. But the odd one two and spinning in behind isn’t beyond even the most average footballer. The static approach and lack of movement is bamboozling. I agree though I didn’t see anybody not trying just devoid of ideas.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Steddyman » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:43 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:how many times did Lennon, Brady, Taylor try and get to the touchline and provide service ? once ?

Lennon did it right at the end, he's good enough to do it because he left Ritchie for dead - so why for the previous 90 mins did he go backwards ?
Spot on Vegas. Dyche has drilled it out of them. All did this when first signed.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:44 pm

I thought Lennon was our best player tonight

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Papabendi » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:45 pm

One of our biggest problems.no width. The wide players tuck in when the full backs go forward. Clearly tactical and also weird

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by piston broke » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:45 pm

Lennon wasn’t even up against a FB. It was Ritchie FGS. He should have been running at him every chance he had.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Blackrod » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:46 pm

Putting physical effort in which they did ( well not sure about Cork) is different to looking like they have belief in the Manager's tactics.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:46 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I thought Lennon was our best player tonight
If you don’t mind you wingers having zero threat at all. Went hiding so much. Compare him to Richie who was never awayfrom the touchline. Now it might be tactics but it’s not how I want wingers to play.

Long my MOM
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:47 pm

I saw some great play from Burnley, really good passing moves and very slick, so what, we were beaten by an on form and improving team, but it was tight. The fans on here tonight are shambolic.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Dyched » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:48 pm

Ohhh now here’s a thread that wont disappear

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Ooogeorgeorgeoghani » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I thought Lennon was our best player tonight
That's two of us then , out of 20,000 people that either makes us wrong or special !

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by jlup1980 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:49 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I thought Lennon was our best player tonight


I agree he played well. Our only threat came from him or Lowton. It was crazy when Sean swapped him and Brady over. Lennon made a lot of runs that weren't picked up by his team mates tonight. That's not his fault.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Bin Ont Turf » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:50 pm

piston broke wrote:Lennon wasn’t even up against a FB. It was Ritchie FGS. He should have been running at him every chance he had.
That's the thing, he hardly had an opportunity to do that.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:51 pm

jlup1980 wrote:I agree he played well. Our only threat came from him or Lowton. It was crazy when Sean swapped him and Brady over. Lennon made a lot of runs that weren't picked up by his team mates tonight. That's not his fault.
I was on my way home and saw the first post on the player ratings giving him a 4 and was astonished. Without suggesting he was outstanding, I thought he played really well, defended well and was as much of a threat as anyone else going forward. The alongside him in midfield were absolutely awful, in my opinion.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Nesnajttam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:52 pm

Honestly.. Not saying this as a Rover.. Burnley look awful..

I honestly think SD won't turn it around.. Whatever he had.. Its gone.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Ooogeorgeorgeoghani » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:52 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:If you don’t mind you wingers having zero threat at all. Went hiding so much. Compare him to Richie who was never awayfrom the touchline. Now it might be tactics but it’s not how I want wingers to play.

Long my MOM
Long gets the fans vote because he hasn't cost us anything , he's slotted in well and is good cover for tarks , tonight he was solid no better than mee , his distribution is reminds me of duff 's yet he gets the praise

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Buxtonclaret » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:53 pm

Lennon also tracked back very well throughout.
He snuffed out one particular threat really well in the first half.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by jlup1980 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:53 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I was on my way home and saw the first post on the player ratings giving him a 4 and was astonished. Without suggesting he was outstanding, I thought he played really well, defended well and was as much of a threat as anyone else going forward. The alongside him in midfield were absolutely awful, in my opinion.
Lennon was the best of the midfield tonight. However...
Brady clearly isn't fit.
Defour and Cork were hung out to dry by the tactics. They were desperate for a number 10 to take the ball off them. They had no options other than sideways or backwards all night.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:55 pm

442 is so outdated. Especially with the players we have. Defour needs a 5 to get the best out of him. That’s how we started last season.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:56 pm

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani wrote:Long gets the fans vote because he hasn't cost us anything , he's slotted in well and is good cover for tarks , tonight he was solid no better than mee , his distribution is reminds me of duff 's yet he gets the praise
I thought mee was shaky all first half.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Wile E Coyote » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:57 pm

Nesnajttam wrote:Honestly.. Not saying this as a Rover.. Burnley look awful..

I honestly think SD won't turn it around.. Whatever he had.. Its gone.
nonsense, you think a manager who worked his socks off to achieve what he has with Burnley can't face a minor period of adversity and turn it around?
He thrives on such challenges.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by ClaretTony » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:57 pm

jlup1980 wrote:Lennon was the best of the midfield tonight. However...
Brady clearly isn't fit.
Defour and Cork were hung out to dry by the tactics. They were desperate for a number 10 to take the ball off them. They had no options other than sideways or backwards all night.
Well Brady was awful, that's for sure and the two central midfielders were too and I think that's where the main problems have been all season. I know most will disagree but I'd have had Hendrick on early tonight for Wood. We look, in my view, a much better side when Hendrick is playing.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Nesnajttam » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:59 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:nonsense, you think a manager who worked his socks off to achieve what he has with Burnley can't face a minor period of adversity and turn it around?
He thrives on such challenges.
One name.. Aidy Boothroyd.. Once its gone, its gone.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by EarbyClaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:00 am

The problem as far as Lennon is concerned is that we neither move the ball at pace nor do we have the quality to play him in behind the full back. Generally speaking when he receives the ball he's not got the space to attack or go past his man. Tonight he was channeled into blind alleys. Teams have worked us out we are easy to defend against for the most part.

There's no doubting his defensive contribution and for a winger he takes decent care of the ball when we're in possession. Which is something sadly lacking from Brady's game at the moment.

No lack of effort anywhere on the pitch, Tactically Newcastle were much better and carried far more of an attacking threat. Ultimately we were undone by failing to defend properly as a unit - twice - both from corners. Incredibly disappointing that we're still making these basic mistakes this far into the season.

The players for the most part appear to be working hard but to no particular purpose - and that's how it feels to watch it.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by BillyIngham'sShorts » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:16 am

jlup1980 wrote:Lennon was the best of the midfield tonight. However...
Brady clearly isn't fit.
Defour and Cork were hung out to dry by the tactics. They were desperate for a number 10 to take the ball off them. They had no options other than sideways or backwards all night.
I agree that need a clever no 10 ( Vydra?) is needed so we can play through the middle quickly - otherwise it is the same old slow build up that may make the possession stats look better than they would otherwise be but is not currently very effective : Long across to Mee ...to our Full back ...back across the back ..via Defour ...very slow build up and predictable with inevitable long ball that could have been played at the outset. Defour played one superb reverse long diagonal ball over the top to Wood who miscontrolled it and lost the chance, but no other player can do that so we don't really get anywhere. The way we were set up I think we would have done better launching it long quickly more often (on the basis that we may have built up some momentum or unsettled them) but obviously that is not the brief. I would also have got Ash on for Brady at half time. There were long periods of the game where we simply didn't create any chances or get anywhere near the goal. That all said, it is easy form the side lines - we could have got something out of the game - Wood had 4 or 5 chances and on another day would have buried a couple.

Up the Clarets. I will back Dyche till my hat floats but felt frustrated with that tonight.
ps i noticed how there were 2 or 3 times where Charlie could have attacked space behind full back in second half when we had ball in midfield - it was screaming out to go but obviously he is under instructions to hold a line.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:18 am

I agree it wasn't a lack of effort, the worrying thing is though we're not good enough.
We play half decent football when we go behind but very flat otherwise.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Wile E Coyote » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:20 am

Nesnajttam wrote:One name.. Aidy Boothroyd.. Once its gone, its gone.
one very irrelevant and pointless name...no comparison whatsoever

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Wile E Coyote » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:22 am

I can recall the victories and promotions quite recently under dyche, some of our fans are ****
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by CoolClaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:37 am

Nesnajttam wrote:One name.. Aidy Boothroyd.. Once its gone, its gone.
The current manager of the England u21s who are absolutely tearing it up?

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Colburn_Claret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:37 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Don't mistake not being good enough with 'not trying', 'not putting a shift in' or 'being lazy'. I saw every Burnley player trying tonight.

Passing sideways and backwards is still part of the game. And when you have Vokes and Wood up front you hardly have a chance of banging in a 30 yard pass in behind the defence.

When Lennon was playing for Spurs and Everton he was playing with better players, which gave him more opportunities to run at the full back etc.
He's never been a good crosser of a ball.

Dummies back in the pram and put the crystal balls away.
I've never, ever, questioned the players attitude. You can see they are trying. But at the same time you can see they are lacking a pair of ********. They play like frightened rabbits at times, harried into making basic errors. THEY have to stand up and be counted, that doesn't mean try harder, just be their to be counted. Stand up for your team mates when they are struggling, be the one to make the difference. We need a leader to get the team kick started, we haven't got one, so it's time for someone to step out the shadows and be that man.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by lucs86 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 am

EarbyClaret wrote:The problem as far as Lennon is concerned is that we neither move the ball at pace nor do we have the quality to play him in behind the full back. Generally speaking when he receives the ball he's not got the space to attack or go past his man. Tonight he was channeled into blind alleys. Teams have worked us out we are easy to defend against for the most part.

There's no doubting his defensive contribution and for a winger he takes decent care of the ball when we're in possession. Which is something sadly lacking from Brady's game at the moment.

No lack of effort anywhere on the pitch, Tactically Newcastle were much better and carried far more of an attacking threat. Ultimately we were undone by failing to defend properly as a unit - twice - both from corners. Incredibly disappointing that we're still making these basic mistakes this far into the season.

The players for the most part appear to be working hard but to no particular purpose - and that's how it feels to watch it.
Absolutely spot on.
2 down was very harsh I thought, but it's concerning that we didn't find a way tonight. We finished the first half strong and started the 2nd OK but did nothing after that and just conceded the next 20 minutes.
These are Dyche's players carrying out his instructions and it's just poor that we couldn't change gear to take the initiative, at home.
Brady will need more games, Defour was good, everyone around them is working hard. It's up to Dyche to get them in the right places and adapt it to make differences. He's had a bad one tonight IMO.
Bad Dychecisionmaking, get off the players' backs.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by South West Claret. » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:49 am

Bin Ont Turf wrote:Don't mistake not being good enough with 'not trying', 'not putting a shift in' or 'being lazy'. I saw every Burnley player trying tonight.

Passing sideways and backwards is still part of the game. And when you have Vokes and Wood up front you hardly have a chance of banging in a 30 yard pass in behind the defence.

When Lennon was playing for Spurs and Everton he was playing with better players, which gave him more opportunities to run at the full back etc.
He's never been a good crosser of a ball.

Dummies back in the pram and put the crystal balls away.
Nothing much wrong with that BOT.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by EarbyClaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:53 am

"We need a leader to get the team kick started, we haven't got one, so it's time for someone to step out the shadows and be that man."

It's difficult to see anyone who fits that bill or has done so since Joey Barton. Last season it felt more like everyone taking collective responsibility and of course results going your way always helps.

When it's backs to the wall is when you need this type of character to step up to the plate. No real evidence of that at all this season.

Would have thought a player who fits that profile has to be top of the January shopping list - although whether they could come in mid-season and make the required impact is questionable.
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by claretgimmer » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:08 am

We miss Joey Barton more than we realize, he had a presence in all aspects of his game and demanded the same commitment from those around him, he was never replaced and for my money his and Heatons absence at the back have contributed to our current situation.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Burtonwoodclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:35 am

Defour and Cork were good at keeping possession tonight apart from the very odd occasion when they were dispossessed under pressure. The problem seemed to be that they had very few clear options for a telling pass. I can never understand why opposing teams seem to have players in space with freedom to move on the wings whilst our wingers seem pushed into tight channels along the touch line. Lennon has been criticised on this board a lot tonight, but he was stuck in cul de sacs time and time again . So often his only option was to play back to Lowton, whose only attacking option was a looping centre.
We are clearly missing a Danny Ings, Andre Grey, Charlie Austin type of striker. Wood and Vokes, seem panicky with the ball at their feet when going forward, though they did help out the midfield when facing they other way.
We were crying out for Brady to come back a few weeks ago, but we would have been far better tonight with a fit JBG in place of Brady.
Let’s hope our Technical Director can bring in players to improve our squad and tactical influence to improve the way we deploy our Squad.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Ooogeorgeorgeoghani » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:40 am

Burtonwoodclaret wrote:Defour and Cork were good at keeping possession tonight apart from the very odd occasion when they were dispossessed under pressure. The problem seemed to be that they had very few clear options for a telling pass. I can never understand why opposing teams seem to have players in space with freedom to move on the wings whilst our wingers seem pushed into tight channels along the touch line. Lennon has been criticised on this board a lot tonight, but he was stuck in cul de sacs time and time again . So often his only option was to play back to Lowton, whose only attacking option was a looping centre.
We are clearly missing a Danny Ings, Andre Grey, Charlie Austin type of striker. Wood and Vokes, seem panicky with the ball at their feet when going forward, though they did help out the midfield when facing they other way.
We were crying out for Brady to come back a few weeks ago, but we would have been far better tonight with a fit JBG in place of Brady.
Let’s hope our Technical Director can bring in players to improve our squad and tactical influence to improve the way we deploy our Squad.
Newcastle had 11 men behind the ball for 80 minutes we have never been able to break teams down that do this which is why our win ratio is poor when we conceded first

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Burtonwoodclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:44 am

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani wrote:Newcastle had 11 men behind the ball for 80 minutes we have never been able to break teams down that do this which is why our win ratio is poor when we conceded first
Thank you, that just about sums up what I took so many words to say.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:08 am

We are not set up to get the best out of Lennon

And he did alright, but we have to find a way to give him the room to run at his man. That only happened in the last minute, and he beat him easily.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by willsclarets » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:54 am

Good op. Some of the things being written on here are embarrassing. We've gone from supporting a plucky underdog through thick and thin to some weird assumption that the premier league is easy as pie as long as you do X, y and z. I get it, we're not playing nearly as well as we did last year and at times it's been hard to watch. Is that really so surprising to you? This happens, it happens all the time in the premier league. The response from some seems to be to throw as many toys out the pram as possible.

If at the end of last season you were told that 13 games into the new one people were calling for Dyche to get the sack and saying Cork was "no longer good enough for the premier league" - you would laugh at the absurdity.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by joey13 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:58 am

Lennon lost Ricthie time and time again ,yet he was our best player ?

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by deanothedino » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:01 am

Papabendi wrote:One of our biggest problems.no width. The wide players tuck in when the full backs go forward. Clearly tactical and also weird
This is why Boyd and Arfield played so many games for us on the wing. Dyche has never tried to set us up to play with any width other than from the full back pushing forward.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:30 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:I saw some great play from Burnley, really good passing moves and very slick, so what, we were beaten by an on form and improving team, but it was tight. The fans on here tonight are shambolic.
So what's the excuse for the rest of the season so far?

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Belgianclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:33 am

ClaretTony wrote:I thought Lennon was our best player tonight
I thought Long was our best player by far

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:47 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:nonsense, you think a manager who worked his socks off to achieve what he has with Burnley can't face a minor period of adversity and turn it around?
He thrives on such challenges.
Sorry WC I wish I could agree but it is not a 'minor period of adversity'. In another couple of months we will have been pretty awful for a year. Not many managers if any get that long. Okay we have had injuries to key players but that should have been addressed in the window. Europe is no excuse because he dropped most of the regular first team for that. We have, at the moment, decent players who are good enough at this level (just) who look clueless and totally outclassed most of the time. Something is not right. I think Dyche should stay and be given the chance to put things right, without doubt, but that must include the board allowing him to make some pretty decent signings in January. My suspicion has been all along that if we are in a precarious position come the winow the board might just say sod it we are going down let's not pay out a lot for players. If that happens we will have a much clearer picture of our boards ambition (of lack of).

houseboy
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by houseboy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:54 am

Wile E Coyote wrote:I can recall the victories and promotions quite recently under dyche, some of our fans are ****
How far do you want to go back for solice? There are wonderful marriages that go off the boil and maybe this marriage is on the rocks. I'd give Dyche (definitely) until February, giving him a chance (hopefully) to make some signings and get them working, if we are still playing frightened back passing football after that it will be time for a change.

By the way whilst you are remembering the promotions and victories have you blotted out the relegation from your memory banks?

boatshed bill
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:02 am

A championship team playing championship football.

piston broke
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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by piston broke » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:05 am

ClaretTony wrote:I thought Lennon was our best player tonight
He put a real shift in. Sadly until he was fouled in the last minute most of that was going the wrong way. He still has pace he shows that often enough but he has absolutely no confidence in his ability to beat a man.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by quoonbeatz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:13 am

Belgianclaret wrote:I thought Long was our best player by far
nobody was our best player by far.

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Re: Just to clear a few things up

Post by Lancasterclaret » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:18 am

I thought Long played well, but I'm also of the opinion that Rondon is absolutely useless and last night did nothing to dispel that.

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