Man Up ! Toxic Masculinity ! Bloody Garbage!

[Bfcboyo]

https://www.bbc.com/ideas/videos/why-th ... e/p06sdqg6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Really insightful info on the link from the BBC.

Opened my eyes further to what a joke the current mindset is in this country. Does this rubbish actually stick with anybody. Another ridiculous fad of the times being pushed by people out of touch with reality.

Picture those trenches 100 years ago if this nonsense was peddled back then.

[South West Claret.]

100 years ago? oh come on get with it it's 2018 not 1918, seems like the fella is only talking common sense in the main.

[Lancasterclaret]

Is it worth watching?

Has to be said if it stops lads thinking that they can do whatever they want when they want then it might not be a bad thing

[bobinho]

No, it isn’t.

Toxic masculinity? Got a feeling we will be hearing this new “buzz phrase” a lot more.

So, actually saying and believing that “men are stronger, women are weaker” is wrong why? I mean, it’s a cast iron fact, so why does it have to be hushed? Being brainwashed into believing that males and females are just the same is simply not right. We’re not the same. What he’s really saying is that men have to be positively female. Make men feminists? How’s that helping?

I get they want lads to talk to someone about whatever issues they are having, it could save them plummeting into crime or a poor mental state, and I get that they want lads to be more respectful of women, nowt wrong with that, but if you lie to them and make stuff up that is just ********, they will suss you out and the message is lost forever.

[Falcon]

Nobody is saying we aren't on average physically stronger, it's the mental health thing. Mentally we're the same strength. That's what this is about feller.

[bobinho]

I get that, and that’s a good thing. Isn’t this taking it a little too far tho? Far too much going on.

Maybe dealing with boys attitudes towards girls could be dealt with starting at junior school level, and continued through the education curriculum, then there’d be no need for these “workshops” changing men into feminists.

[houseboy]

Nobody is saying we aren't on average physically stronger, it's the mental health thing. Mentally we're the same strength. That's what this is about feller.

You think we are mentally the same? No we aren't and that has been shown in tests over many years. There are things that women are superior at and there are things that men are superior at and that has been pretty much proven by psychologists over the years. We are not better, that is not the argument, we are different and to try to get a man to think or feel like a woman is just plain wrong, so is vice versa. Why is there such a clamour over the years for men to get in touch with their feminine side, we haven't got one and the same is true the other way around. When political correctness starts interfering with basic human nature then we really do have a serious problem. Neither of us is 'better' than the other but we are not the same. How many guys on here for instance can really, hand on heart, say they understand women? I don't and I have been trying for nearly 50 years.

[randomclaret2]

The BBC spends most of its time involved in Social Engineering these days

[Lancasterclaret]

then there’d be no need for these “workshops” changing men into feminists.

to be honest bfcboyo, the kids are actually taught a lot better about this kind of thing then the dads and older generation are.

No ones fault like, its just a hell of a lot of positive changes over a comparatively short amount of time.

[South West Claret.]

No, it isn’t.

Toxic masculinity? Got a feeling we will be hearing this new “buzz phrase” a lot more.

So, actually saying and believing that “men are stronger, women are weaker” is wrong why? I mean, it’s a cast iron fact, so why does it have to be hushed? Being brainwashed into believing that males and females are just the same is simply not right. We’re not the same. What he’s really saying is that men have to be positively female. Make men feminists? How’s that helping?

I get they want lads to talk to someone about whatever issues they are having, it could save them plummeting into crime or a poor mental state, and I get that they want lads to be more respectful of women, nowt wrong with that, but if you lie to them and make stuff up that is just ********, they will suss you out and the message is lost forever.

Well you certainly have an odd way of interpreting some other peoples views BB, lying? who? and making stuff up.. again who and where?

[claptrappers_union]

It makes complete sense to me.

It's not about men becoming softer or anything like that. As society in general, we are conditioned to the unrealistic expectations around us. Some of us can see through it, others can't and try to meet those expectations and it's important to recognise that at an early age.

We wonder why more men are getting depressed and committing suicide.

I believe its because men in their 30's are now comparing themselves to the perceived expectations they see in the world around them, wether it be on television, advertising, social media or the perceived digital persona of their peers.

I think some men believe they are not providing for their family or in a strong enough relationship, they don't own the car or house they strive for or have a the physique of a professional sportsman.

For women - we can now see-through advertising, photoshop and professional makeup now - because we understand that part of our culture more, but 10 years ago it was different.

But in men,I think it's more deeper than that - because boys are conditioned not to express their feelings, they are told to be strong and 'man up', some are growing up be something they know that they are not and its confusing and it can lead to tragic consequences.

But what we have to make sure we still have accountability in ourselves. It's important not to lose touch in that.

[dsr]

There's the theory, and there's the practice. In the past, when men were told to "man up" and just deal with what life throws at you (and so for that matter were women) the suicide rates were a lot less.

They had different problems then - rather than having to drive a car they don't like or not having a sportsman's physique, they had to deal with having to go to war or coping with the deaths of their children. And yet suicide rates were lower than now.

[Falcon]

You think we are mentally the same? No we aren't and that has been shown in tests over many years. There are things that women are superior at and there are things that men are superior at and that has been pretty much proven by psychologists over the years. We are not better, that is not the argument, we are different and to try to get a man to think or feel like a woman is just plain wrong, so is vice versa. Why is there such a clamour over the years for men to get in touch with their feminine side, we haven't got one and the same is true the other way around. When political correctness starts interfering with basic human nature then we really do have a serious problem. Neither of us is 'better' than the other but we are not the same. How many guys on here for instance can really, hand on heart, say they understand women? I don't and I have been trying for nearly 50 years.

I'm not arguing anything of that sort.

I said in terms of mental strength we're the same, not mentally we're the same.

I.e. your average man is equally good (or bad) at handling mental strife as your average woman

This whole campaign is designed to stop boys and men bottling up their mental struggles in a harmful manner, not trying to convince them they are women.

[BennyD]

Men and women are wired up differently. We are different physically, emotionally and mentally which is a good thing and we have learned to live with it. Trendies like this come along and try to alter the balance and all it does is screw people up. We will have a generation not knowing what the f*ck is going on or how they are expected to behave and it will leave them confused. This in turn will require the next generation of trendies to create the next lot of psychobabble to try and sort them out. As I see it, they are trying to alter millenia of evolution and no real good will come of it. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s all bollocxs.

[Lancasterclaret]

Well, that explains a lot about your Brexit stance.

[claret2018]

Some people get very emotional about things like this don't they?

[claptrappers_union]

I think people are misunderstanding this whole 'men are wired differently' and think that these ideas are trying to reassign men to be more feminine. It's not.

It's just about the 'stresses' of todays society, which are very different to 100 years ago, 50 years ago and even 20 years ago. It's not that men are softer or 'generation: snowflake' - but society is changing.

I was chatting with a long-term business owner who employed loads of people. He said that people don't stay at one workplace anymore. People used to spend the most of there working life at his business... 20 or 30 years, climbing the ladder or stay in the same role or they'll eventually move competitor doing the same job - but for more money.

These days, people work for just a few years and then move on to a different job, sometimes doing something completely different.

People don't like being told what to do anymore, people won't tolerate being shouted at, they'll just go somewhere else and work for a better lifestyle and work/life balance - it's important than pay in some cases. Thats just the way we are living now.

Look at football managers, Stan would last 2 minutes as a football manager now. Its the reason why O'Neill and Keane were axed - they were probably more shouty-shouty and players don't like it.

[Bosscat]

Men and women are wired up differently. We are different physically, emotionally and mentally which is a good thing and we have learned to live with it. Trendies like this come along and try to alter the balance and all it does is screw people up. We will have a generation not knowing what the f*ck is going on or how they are expected to behave and it will leave them confused. This in turn will require the next generation of trendies to create the next lot of psychobabble to try and sort them out. As I see it, they are trying to alter millenia of evolution and no real good will come of it. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s all bollocxs.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... birth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Say no more

[aggi]

There's the theory, and there's the practice. In the past, when men were told to "man up" and just deal with what life throws at you (and so for that matter were women) the suicide rates were a lot less.

They had different problems then - rather than having to drive a car they don't like or not having a sportsman's physique, they had to deal with having to go to war or coping with the deaths of their children. And yet suicide rates were lower than now.

That was true briefly during World Wars maybe but generally suicide rates have been falling in the UK

[dsr]

That was true briefly during World Wars maybe but generally suicide rates have been falling in the UK

Good to know. From the way it's reported it seems like it's vastly increasing. Any idea how it's varying by age groups?

And the obvious other question, what is undetermined about the grey lines? Is it whether or not it was suicide, or is it whether they were male/female?

[Falcon]

I understand that suicide is statistically the leading cause of death of UK males under 50.

It's a real shame as it is the very definition of a preventable death.

[Tall Paul]

And the obvious other question, what is undetermined about the grey lines? Is it whether or not it was suicide, or is it whether they were male/female?

Not sure if that's a serious question, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's obviously not whether they were male or female because if it was the gaps between the black and grey lines would be the same.

[houseboy]

I'm not arguing anything of that sort.

I said in terms of mental strength we're the same, not mentally we're the same.

I.e. your average man is equally good (or bad) at handling mental strife as your average woman

This whole campaign is designed to stop boys and men bottling up their mental struggles in a harmful manner, not trying to convince them they are women.

My wife and I must be built the wrong way round bud. I am more than happy to talk to people about most things, including the severe anxiety that I suffered years ago and which I still have but now control pretty easily (it's not a problem to me any more), in fact I have helped others who felt the same way as I did. My wife on the other hand clams up like a vice when faced with problems and has to be asked a hundred times before she will admit what the problem is.

I think this idea that 'men don't talk' and that women are more open is a massive generalisation. I think EVERYONE should be encouraged to speak openly about problems because as you rightly say keeping quiet is often the road to far worse things.

PS: just to buck the trend even more I go to the doctors far more readilly than my wife, which again is not what is generally thought. I think someone swapped our brains years ago.

[martin_p]

My wife and I must be built the wrong way round bud. I am more than happy to talk to people about most things, including the severe anxiety that I suffered years ago and which I still have but now control pretty easily (it's not a problem to me any more), in fact I have helped others who felt the same way as I did. My wife on the other hand clams up like a vice when faced with problems and has to be asked a hundred times before she will admit what the problem is.

I think this idea that 'men don't talk' and that women are more open is a massive generalisation. I think EVERYONE should be encouraged to speak openly about problems because as you rightly say keeping quiet is often the road to far worse things.

PS: just to buck the trend even more I go to the doctors far more readilly than my wife, which again is not what is generally thought. I think someone swapped our brains years ago.

That sort of proves his point doesn’t it.

[aggi]

Good to know. From the way it's reported it seems like it's vastly increasing. Any idea how it's varying by age groups?

And the obvious other question, what is undetermined about the grey lines? Is it whether or not it was suicide, or is it whether they were male/female?

Lots of info here https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/39/6/1464/736597" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Amongst males, the highest suicide rates were seen in those aged 55–64 and ≥65 years until the late 20th century when they declined steeply and were surpassed by 25- to 34-year-olds and 35- to 44-year-olds. Males aged 15–24 years had the lowest suicide rates over the entire period.

Undetermined is, unsurprisingly, whether or not it was suicide.

[houseboy]

That sort of proves his point doesn’t it.

No, his point was that men dont talk openly enough and that women are more open, so in that respect I proved him wrong at least in my case. My point is that,in general, there may be an argument but I think it is, as I say, a massive generalisation.

[Imploding Turtle]

I with the OP would repress his feelings more.

[Falcon]

No, his point was that men dont talk openly enough and that women are more open, so in that respect I proved him wrong at least in my case. My point is that,in general, there may be an argument but I think it is, as I say, a massive generalisation.

I think you'd massively misunderstood what I was trying to say! Yes I do aver that most men don't talk openly enough and I'm very pleased for you that you do but that doesn't stop it being a problem across the board so to speak. Of course there are women who bottle things up and men who are very open. That's irrelevant.

The point I am making is that on average men and women's mental wellbeing are just as fragile as one another, so society encouraging men to bottle their feelings up and never talk about it is a terrible thing!

I think we're on the same side here, just talking at cross purposes.

[houseboy]

I think you'd massively misunderstood what I was trying to say! Yes I do aver that most men don't talk openly enough and I'm very pleased for you that you do but that doesn't stop it being a problem across the board so to speak. Of course there are women who bottle things up and men who are very open. That's irrelevant.
I think we're on the same side here, just talking at cross purposes.
The point I am making is that on average men and women's mental wellbeing are just as fragile as one another, so society encouraging men to bottle their feelings up and never talk about it is a terrible thing!

Absolutely right mate. The strong silent type (male or female) I find difficult to deal with and more than a little irritating. We should communicate better, all of us.

Now leave me alone, I don't want to talk about this any more.

[Bfcboyo]

Nobody is saying we aren't on average physically stronger, it's the mental health thing. Mentally we're the same strength. That's what this is about feller.

We are totally different mentally through evolution. Our mindsets are different. Women and men handle things differently like all species on this godforsaken hole. Why over think everything.

[Bfcboyo]

I with the OP would repress his feelings more.

Oh I will if you lot get your way. I will be muzzled mentally and physically for daring to think against the herd.

[Bfcboyo]

to be honest bfcboyo, the kids are actually taught a lot better about this kind of thing then the dads and older generation are.

No ones fault like, its just a hell of a lot of positive changes over a comparatively short amount of time.

Kids need to be kids and leave the worrying to the parents not have this tripe funnelled into their poor little ears. I hope they don't bloody teach this.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

We are encouraging young males to be more expressive, more emotional, better communicating their feelings which on the whole is a very positive thing.

However support for everything from a mental health point of view for young people inside and outside school is either being stretched or simply cut. So for those young males who need that extra support growing up, there's either no professionals they can talk to or they are put on a waiting list. I think they should be a mental health support worker in every secondary school instead of in many cases just leaving it to teachers who are not qualified in this crucial area of support.

Not that many years ago I was with a young person who had self harmed and was admitted to Blackburn hospital, he got admitted to a childrens ward on a friday evening, there was no child mental health specialist/child psychologist on over the weekend so he had to wait until Monday to be assessed.

We need to look after and prioritise the mental health of our young people.

[bobinho]

Good to know. From the way it's reported it seems like it's vastly increasing. Any idea how it's varying by age groups?

And the obvious other question, what is undetermined about the grey lines? Is it whether or not it was suicide, or is it whether they were male/female?

Indicative of the times that we have to ask that question. Unbelievable isn’t it?

[Imploding Turtle]

This belongs here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 9795bd83f2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;