Is Tom Heaton the problem

[Parkvilla]

Why are people saying Hart is the problem when week after week he is man of the match.Maybe Heaton is sulking and causing trouble with the other players.If so let's get shut of Heaton asap.If we hadn't signed Hart and Heaton was fit and playing well and suddenly Pope comes straight back in the team Heaton would have a lot to say then.Play well keep your place.Get injured,wait your turn and keep your mouth shut.

[IndigoLake]

I think it's most likely that there are multiple problems - one of which is the situation in which we signed Hart and played him instead of the club captain Heaton. And based on this season thus far, Mee shouldn't be captain. Unfortunately, we don't have many other viable candidates.

[Claret]

Tom is, I imagine, extremely pigged off with what's happened over the last year or so but I very much doubt that our club captain will have deliberately set out to disrupt the camp.

[Vegas Claret]

the only Captain type player who gives everything would be Barnes, but he doesn't play

[TsarBomba]

There can be any number of reasons, and we can hypothesise to the cows come home.

But maybe, and simply, Dyche’s tenure is coming to its natural end. All good things do eventually.

A new voice in the dressing room. Fresh ideas. It’s looking increasingly obvious this is what’s needed.

The rhetoric from Dyche remains the same, ‘we need to work harder on the training field’, ‘we’re in a fog’, ‘we need to hit the refresh button’. All these have been churned out repeatedly, with absolutely no reaction from the players.

It’s utter madness to continue in this vain. It serves no purpose to anyone.

[joey13]

There can be any number of reasons, and we can hypothesise to the cows come home.

But maybe, and simply, Dyche’s tenure is coming to its natural end. All good things do eventually.

A new voice in the dressing room. Fresh ideas. It’s looking increasingly obvious this is what’s needed.

The rhetoric from Dyche remains the same, ‘we need to work harder on the training field’, ‘we’re in a fog’, ‘we need to hit the refresh button’. All these have been churned out repeatedly, with absolutely no reaction from
It’s utter madness to continue in this vain. It serves no purpose to anyone.

Are we still evolving though ?

[ElectroClaret]

Well, TH being the problem is no dafter a suggestion than Hart being the
root cause of our woes.

[ClaretMoffitt]

Tom is, I imagine, extremely pigged off with what's happened over the last year or so but I very much doubt that our club captain will have deliberately set out to disrupt the camp.

[Giftonsnoidea]

Its possible there have been numerous break downs in relationship between the staff, manager and players as obviously you dont go from 7th and absolutely flying result wise to where we are now which is fighting relegation.

As soon as the new guys staff come through the door we all know performances will be hitting the right levels again.

Worth the money to find out i reckon. I would love to see us play like we were dong start of last season as we have pretty much the same team anyway!

[LoveCurryPies]

Tom’s been fabulous for the Club. A bit of respect please.

[claretblue]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... r-13691781" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SGr]

This is genuinely a better theory than the Hart thread. Think there’s a bit more truth to it than people might want to accept.

[BurnleyPaul]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... r-13691781

If Dyche is willing to let Tom leave then we can only assume that Nick Pope is very close to first team action, or will be by then....

[Newty]

Why are people saying Hart is the problem when week after week he is man of the match.

Does he reaaaaally deserve man of the match though or is it more of a protest vote because we've been so poor?

Last seasons expected goals stats for Pope and Hart: (from here: https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ats-reveal)

Apps
Pope 20 Hart 14

Goals conceded
Pope 16 Hart 30

xGoT conceded
Pope 24.1 Hart 25.5

xGoT prevented
Pope 8.1 Hart -4.5

I know this was last season, but pope prevented 8.1 more goals than should have been scored, and Hart allowed 4.5 more than he should have. Irrespective In fact last season pope was 2nd and hart was 18th. That's how big the divide between the two was.

Now, I don't have any stats for this season, but do we really think Hart is suddenly a miles better keeper than he was? MoM worthy every game? I don't. There's been a few goals he's conceded where I've found myself thinking "Pope would have got that." I cant know that for certain, but the stats suggest he would have prevented more than Hart has.

Now I'm not saying Hart is responsible in any way for the dross being served up in front of him the past few weeks, In fact, he's had a hard time of it because of the number of shots the squad in front of him is allowing, but I personally think Pope or Heaton would have shipped less goals, going off all 3 players stats over the last few years.

But what do I know? Maybe Heaton is causing trouble by putting powdered glass in everyone's protein shakes because he knows Dyche hates him and he wants us to go down ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RalphCoatesComb]

For me, Tom stays and Joe goes to Villa, or wherever, in a Hart-beat.

Yes, Hart has made some good saves but who's to say that Tom or Nick wouldn't have made those same saves and prevented some goals (like Liverpool's first last night).

There has been a huge difference in defence this season.

Coincidence that Joe Hart is the difference?

Attitude is key. The sight of Hart screaming at the back four (and not in a good way) fills me with dread. Citeh didn't get rid of him without just cause.

Bring back Tom Heaton!

[cricketfieldclarets]

Expected goals is such a nonsense cant believe how much its referred to!

[houseboy]

Tom is, I imagine, extremely pigged off with what's happened over the last year or so but I very much doubt that our club captain will have deliberately set out to disrupt the camp.

John Terry?

[Lancasterclaret]

Heaton lost his place to Nick Pope last year, who looked even better.

Hart is in , and looks very good.

There isn't a reason to bring Tom back, he's just been very unlucky that he was injured when Pope got hurt at Aberdeen.

[houseboy]

Are we still evolving though ?

On balance I would say no. Evolving means improving, changing to something better, making progress. On the evidence of the last CALENDAR YEAR (for the pedants) whatever we are we are not evolving. In fact the opposite is true, if anything there is entropy. We are worse, far worse, than last year.

[houseboy]

Tom’s been fabulous for the Club. A bit of respect please.

Not, I repeat not, if he has been causing trouble. Obviously we don't know that he has but it seems obvious something is wrong and some kind of whispering campaign would seem the most obvious thing. If he has been stirring it then he should be shifted out in January without delay, I don't care how good he is or what kind of a servant he has been. Respect is earned not given but respect is also lost through treachery.
Apologies to him if he has done nothing but if he has respect is the last thing he needs.

[South West Claret.]

No evidence that i know of and after last night's Hart display I would put Heaton in straight away or for the second half last night!

[houseboy]

For me, Tom stays and Joe goes to Villa, or wherever, in a Hart-beat.

Yes, Hart has made some good saves but who's to say that Tom or Nick wouldn't have made those same saves and prevented some goals (like Liverpool's first last night).

There has been a huge difference in defence this season.

Coincidence that Joe Hart is the difference?

Attitude is key. The sight of Hart screaming at the back four (and not in a good way) fills me with dread. Citeh didn't get rid of him without just cause.

Bring back Tom Heaton!

Hypothetical question: if Tom Heaton is guilty of causing problems to a team that was famous for it's team ethic would you reward him with a return to first team action? Simple yes or no will suffice.

[South West Claret.]

Tom never has been or is the problem IMHO.

[RalphCoatesComb]

Hypothetical question: if Tom Heaton is guilty of causing problems to a team that was famous for it's team ethic would you reward him with a return to first team action? Simple yes or no will suffice.

Who says Tom Heaton has been causing trouble?

With Joe Hart's history, it's him that's likely to be causing the trouble and, as witnessed on a number of occasions, it is Hart who berates the back four without justification.

[houseboy]

Who says Tom Heaton has been causing trouble?

With Joe Hart's history, it's him that's likely to be causing the trouble and, as witnessed on a number of occasions, it is Hart who berates the back four without justification.

Read the question again Ralph. Did I say he was causing trouble? We don't know if he is but my question was, in line with the topic of the thread, if he is. Yes or no?

Oh, and what are you on about saying 'Citeh got rid'? They brought in a different goalkeeper and I doubt you will find a single 'Citeh' fan who will criticise Hart at all. That was a stab in the dark nonsense statement mate.

[evensteadiereddie]

This is pointless bull****.

[RalphCoatesComb]

I doubt you will find a single 'Citeh' fan who will criticise Hart at all.

Discover the facts, speak to some Citeh fans who are in the know, then come back!

[Newty]

Expected goals is such a nonsense cant believe how much its referred to!

It's dead simple statistical analysis based on the likely % that a chance should have been scored based on historical similar chances. If you've ever said "he should have scored that" then you've done it, just without the maths!

[TVC15]

I’m loving how somebody thinks that our club captain who has probably done as much for team spirit under Dyche as any other player is all of a sudden causing trouble.

There is nothing whatsoever in Tom’s career which suggests he has any kind of ego and or has been anything other than a great pro.

If you really feel the need to make up conspiracy theories up about somebody upsetting the team dynamics then surely the natural target would be somebody new with a massive ego....who maybe likes his shampoo and reminding everyone of the number of England caps he has got ?

[tim_noone]

It's dead simple statistical analysis based on the likely % that a chance should have been scored based on historical similar chances. If you've ever said "he should have scored that" then you've done it, just without the maths!

Is that you Isaac??

[houseboy]

Discover the facts, speak to some Citeh fans who are in the know, then come back!

Now then Ralph, I know loads of 'Citeh' fans and they loved him, unless my mates are lying. He got a good response at City recently. Stop hiding and answer the question, I've answered yours. It's typical of some on here who will avoid answering a question by asking one back, it's a psychological trick designed specifically to avoid losing an argument, my wife is brilliant at it.

I'll ask again: in the event that Heaton has been causing trouble at the club (and I'm NOT saying he has) would you reward him with a first team place?
Simple yes or no please.

[claretblue]

Dyche concedes Tom may move on-loan or permenant

see link from today:

https://www.pendletoday.co.uk/sport/foo ... -1-9480396" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[LoveCurryPies]

Not, I repeat not, if he has been causing trouble. Obviously we don't know that he has....

Exactly, no evidence.

[cricketfieldclarets]

One thing I will say about heaton is that ive met him three times.

Once when he was injured he was sat next to us at Old Trafford in the stands with the fans and was completely behind Nick Pope with the rest of us. He truly was one of us that day. And when all the young kids wanted autographs and pictures he couldnt do enough.

The time prior to that was after a game at Brighton and he was superb again. Was polite, respectful and seemed a proper good bloke and not a prima donna egotistical footballer.

The first time was at the club shop. He had been assigned to do a bit of autograph signing etc. He was there something like 12 hours. And waited until every single kid had met him. And he was as enthusiastic when we got there late on as I expect he was at the start.

In fact we also met him after The Istanbul game this season and like at Old Trafford despite being out he seemed on good form.

Of course, things have changed. He hasnt got his place back and he will just want to play. If its been frustrating for us imagine how its been for him. Going from England cap to third choice in world cup year through pure misfortune.

I expect he is very frustrated. And just wants to play. And rightly so I would be worried if he wasnt.

But the impression I get having met him and from countless tv and paper interviews (and his low profile - on social media) is that ges a genuine, top guy who just wants the best for the club and just wants to play. I may be wrong but theres no reason to think he is purposely upsetting the apple cart.

Hopefuly he gets the move he deserves. Gets back fit. Gets back playing and gets back to this level. He deserves it.