Homophobic chanting

[Damo]

I haven’t got a clue what you’re asking.

You and the likes of Charlie have certain levels of what is, or isn't acceptable to call a group of people in a derogatory fashion. I'd like to see how it's scaled please

[boatshed bill]

But we often sing the referees a ******. And we are all wankers...

I would never chant that horrendous insult, CFC

[martin_p]

You and the likes of Charlie have certain levels of what is, or isn't acceptable to call a group of people in a derogatory fashion. I'd like to see how it's scaled please

Blimey, I didn’t think I needed to Janet and John it. Accusing someone of incest works as an insult as incest is generally regarded as a bad thing and is in fact illegal. It’s not a nice thing to say and it’s not something I like, but it’s just an insult that can he shrugged off and if a few sexual deviants get upset then no one is going to bother. Accusing someone of being homosexual only works as an insult if you also think it’s a bad thing, I.e. if you’re a homophobe. I deplore homophobia.

That’s how insults work. You choose something generally thought of as bad and accuse the target of your insult of being that thing. So ‘your breath stinks’ works as an insult while ‘you wear shoes’ doesn’t.

[boyyanno]

Some opinions dragged out of the dark ages on here.

It's casual homophobia if you want to split hairs. I get that kids on the playground do it (which for me highlights that homophobia is still present in today's society) and I also understand that it's generally used as banter. That being said consider in what context you've heard it in, I'd be willing to bet that 9/10 times (including football) those remarks have been made in a way that devalues the person. That's what is homophobic about it, the fact that it's used as an insult in an insulting manner. Have you ever heard anyone say "man up you straight"? Nope didn't think so.

I'm a straight male in a world that is slowly losing it's head but there are some things that make perfect sense to me and that is that there is no place for casual or non casual racism or homophobia. Not sure how anyone can disagree with that.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I’m trying to think of any prominent black gay men ? I could only think of the dj tv guy Reggie Yates and not sure if Garth Crooks is one ?

As for the gay slur it starts in playgrounds about 8 yrs old when nobody knows or cares.

Gays will never be “ the norm” % wise so I guess will always be Prone to ridicule as a fair degree of people will be always be uncomfortable with the sexual side

Gays have been the norm for thousands of years, they've just been suppressed for the last 2k or so by certain religions, which is odd seeing as gays have been around longer than those religions
Now that religious hold on society is starting to weaken more people can be honest about who they actually are.

[Damo]

Blimey, I didn’t think I needed to Janet and John it. Accusing someone of incest works as an insult as incest is generally regarded as a bad thing and is in fact illegal. It’s not a nice thing to say and it’s not something I like, but it’s just an insult that can he shrugged off and if a few sexual deviants get upset then no one is going to bother. Accusing someone of being homosexual only works as an insult if you also think it’s a bad thing, I.e. if you’re a homophobe. I deplore homophobia.

That’s how insults work. You choose something generally thought of as bad and accuse the target of your insult of being that thing. So ‘your breath stinks’ works as an insult while ‘you wear shoes’ doesn’t.

With that in mind, what is your view on all Scousers being theives?

[martin_p]

With that in mind, what is your view on all Scousers being theives?

Erm....they aren’t.

It’s another lazy stereotype and I wouldn’t use it myself.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

With that in mind, what is your view on all Scousers being theives?

They aren't, but most places I've spent a decent amount of time in seem to have a dodgy bloke called scouse living there

[DCWat]

The insults aimed towards Brighton’s fans are probably driven not by intended homophobia but by it being thought that they wind them up.

Most football chants and everyday ‘banter’ is probably more in that category than anyone wishing to actually offend.

[DCWat]

They aren't, but most places I've spent a decent amount of time in seem to have a dodgy bloke called scouse living there

It’s a prerequisite that if someone outside Liverpool is nicknamed Scouse, that he’s a bit of a wide boy.

[boyyanno]

With that in mind, what is your view on all Scousers being theives?

You're completely missing the point, it would seem purposefully considering it was spoon fed to you above.

As stated previously, Thieving falls into the "bad" category along with incest and a wide range of other things. Being a homosexual is neither a bad thing or something to be ashamed of, do you understand why it's wrong now?

[boyyanno]

The insults aimed towards Brighton’s fans are probably driven not by intended homophobia but by it being thought that they wind them up.

Most football chants and everyday ‘banter’ is probably more in that category than anyone wishing to actually offend.

I completely agree with that, no one is trying to be derogatory to homosexuals by getting involved in it, but the reality is it is offensive to Homosexuals for the reasons I've posted previously.

[Damo]

You're completely missing the point, it would seem purposefully considering it was spoon fed to you above.

As stated previously, Thieving falls into the "bad" category along with incest and a wide range of other things. Being a homosexual is neither a bad thing or something to be ashamed of, do you understand why it's wrong now?

I understand why it's wrong.
I just don't understand why "town full of *******, or town full of inbreds etc is ok.
Some people seem to be (rightly) offended by some football chants, and quite oblivious to others and I'm not sure why?

[Boll ewood]

Why all this talk about sexuality on this thread. I thought this thread was about being homophobic. I for one ain't scared of my house. UTC

[Blackrod]

Clearly racist incidents such as that at Arsenal need to be stamped out. I was quite surprised that would still happen.

We have to be careful that we don't over police what people are saying or doing though. I see Vegans are trying to be protected under Equality Legislation. Could we offend Vegans soon by wearing leather shoes to football matches ?

Also as mentioned in a post above why is it acceptable to call the referee a '******' or 'bald' or Leighton James 'Taffy' . The latter is a term of affection but some Welsh may be offended. Its not always hatred.

[vinrogue]

I love a bit of banter at our weekly walking football group, I often accuse the CockerKnees of smelling of jellied eels and they equally give me stick about where my whippet and flat cap are today. I am of an age whereby banter is a bit of fun both ways and when I read this thread it makes me realise that me and a load of others of my age just struggle to work out what is funny ha ha and what is funny he he as one is ok and the other is not.
p.s. all Cockerknees in the group live sowff of Watford Gap in my opinion.....

[Lancasterclaret]

I can't believe that some posters still don't get this to be perfectly honest.

Doesn't fill me with confidence that there won't be similar chants on Saturday.

[martin_p]

Clearly racist incidents such as that at Arsenal need to be stamped out. I was quite surprised that would still happen.

We have to be careful that we don't over police what people are saying or doing though. I see Vegans are trying to be protected under Equality Legislation. Could we offend Vegans soon by wearing leather shoes to football matches ?

Also as mentioned in a post above why is it acceptable to call the referee a '******' or 'bald' or Leighton James 'Taffy' . The latter is a term of affection but some Welsh may be offended. Its not always hatred.

But you're conflating two questions here, i.e. is it acceptable to insult someone and what is an acceptable insult.

[Lancasterclaret]

Big, big, big news

Advocate general of the ECJ recommend that article 50 can be revoked (still awaiting official confirmation, but his recommendation is followed by the judgement in about 80% of cases).

Just as it gets harder and harder to secure a deal, it suddenly becomes incredibly easy to remain.

[claretonthecoast1882]

Big, big, big news

Advocate general of the ECJ recommend that article 50 can be revoked (still awaiting official confirmation, but his recommendation is followed by the judgement in about 80% of cases).

Just as it gets harder and harder to secure a deal, it suddenly becomes incredibly easy to remain.

Why has the general got involved in chants at Huddersfield

[martin_p]

Big, big, big news

Advocate general of the ECJ recommend that article 50 can be revoked (still awaiting official confirmation, but his recommendation is followed by the judgement in about 80% of cases).

Just as it gets harder and harder to secure a deal, it suddenly becomes incredibly easy to remain.

Wrong thread

[DCWat]

It’ll be a long time, if ever, that homophobia (be it said in jest, as a bit of ‘banter’ or something more meaningful and hate filled) will be totally eradicated. To expect otherwise is probably wishful thinking.

There’s certainly a generational gap and I’m sure tolerance (awful word) is growing but it’ll take a hell of a long time to change engrained opinions and how certain common insults are used. Hell, it wasnt that long ago that it was illegal.

I can’t see a time, certainly not anytime soon, when your self professed ‘blokes bloke’ won’t see an effeminate man and feel a bit uncomfortable, and football might have more than its share of people falling into the ‘bloke’ category.

I think it’s fairly easy to see why people still don’t get this and won’t do in their or our lifetimes. Kids at schools will still be calling their mates a ‘puff’ a ‘bender’, not because they are homophobic but because being gay is I suspect still seen by many as different and being a lesser ‘man’ and therefore used as a slur - generally towards someone who is probably straight as they come.

We talk of a tolerant society, which in itself is a ridiculous concept - tolerance is very different to acceptance - which has to work both ways. We can’t just forget years of different ways of thinking and expect many in society to suddenly see that what they’ve always thought or said is now wrong.

[Falcon]

I don't think homophobia will ever be stamped out sadly.

I can't speak for the older generation (other than my perception that they are much less pro gay-rights etc) but the vast majority of people my age (32) and below that I know are very tolerant of gay people and have no problem with them. There are the little things (like saying 'that's a bit gay' to mean 'that's annoying' for instance - a thing so ingrained from my schooldays I had to consciously force myself to stop saying it was that much second nature) but on the whole there's nothing vindictively hateful that certainly my peers would ever utter.

However, whilst I'd say the vast majority of young people are very tolerant there is a disturbing rise of people and groups (possibly fuelled / allowed to propagate by social media) which have very extreme views on gays / other races etc and these groups will of course include and target young people. There will always be people who rail against societal norms, and as society gets more tolerant in general the disenfranchised lot will be your nasty Nazi types.

[Lancasterclaret]

Why has the general got involved in chants at Huddersfield

Jeez, trying to post before my morning coffee!

Sorry chaps!

[Lancasterclaret]

Wrong thread

On the positive side, me putting this on the wrong thread might get people arguing about Brexit, rather than whether calling someone "gay" is offensive or not!

[LongsideFacingUp]

Won't someone think of the children?

[Blackrod]

I don't think homophobia will ever be stamped out sadly.

I can't speak for the older generation (other than my perception that they are much less pro gay-rights etc) but the vast majority of people my age (32) and below that I know are very tolerant of gay people and have no problem with them. There are the little things (like saying 'that's a bit gay' to mean 'that's annoying' for instance - a thing so ingrained from my schooldays I had to consciously force myself to stop saying it was that much second nature) but on the whole there's nothing vindictively hateful that certainly my peers would ever utter.

However, whilst I'd say the vast majority of young people are very tolerant there is a disturbing rise of people and groups (possibly fuelled / allowed to propagate by social media) which have very extreme views on gays / other races etc and these groups will of course include and target young people. There will always be people who rail against societal norms, and as society gets more tolerant in general the disenfranchised lot will be your nasty Nazi types.

One end of the scale ' we can be whatever we want to be and everyone will accept it'

The other end of the scale ' we are intolerant of any kind of minority group or people who are different'

The first probably won't happen in our lifetimes.
Many people are probably somewhere in the middle to varying degrees depending on age, background, beliefs and how they are brought up etc
The middle ground people of varying degrees should not be branded into the latter group. The latter group mixed with violence would be nazism which was a vicious, depraved and evil regime not remotely akin to name calling. Just to give this some context.

[claretonthecoast1882]

On the positive side, me putting this on the wrong thread might get people arguing about Brexit, rather than whether calling someone "gay" is offensive or not!

Are you saying Brexit is gay ?

[AlargeClaret]

Quite how anyone can equate being gay as the “ norm”% wise is preposterous . I’m not sure what the official figure is gay vs straight but I’m guessing about 5%? This would indicate a minority and that is hardly the “ mainstream norm”

I’d imagine most of the tongue tied blustering liberals on here would have little experience of homosexuality . I’ve served with gays , employed gazillions of em,I ran a gay club for 2 yrs , cleaned up the jizzed up bogs and even nearly had a fight with Boy George ! And can assure you gays can fight, fcuk and steal like any other man in the street . Most of them couldn’t give a flying feck about any so called homophobic abuse , they always gave as good as they got and were the most “ unliberal casually racist “ lot you could ever imagine

[Spike]

Brighton always mix up banter with hurtful comments .time they grew up

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Quite how anyone can equate being gay as the “ norm”% wise is preposterous . I’m not sure what the official figure is gay vs straight but I’m guessing about 5%? This would indicate a minority and that is hardly the “ mainstream norm”

I’d imagine most of the tongue tied blustering liberals on here would have little experience of homosexuality . I’ve served with gays , employed gazillions of em,I ran a gay club for 2 yrs , cleaned up the jizzed up bogs and even nearly had a fight with Boy George ! And can assure you gays can fight, fcuk and steal like any other man in the street . Most of them couldn’t give a flying feck about any so called homophobic abuse , they always gave as good as they got and were the most “ unliberal casually racist “ lot you could ever imagine

Homosexuality has been around forever pretty much.
It's been around far far longer than the current religions that forbid it etc.
It will be around long after we've moved on as a society from those religions.

It's normal for people to be gay, whether it's 'mainstream' or not.
Sadly it's also normal to harass, bully, intimidate, assault or murder those who are gay etc.

[Healeywoodclaret]

Don't really have to.

He just needs to ask anyone who has ever been to a football match.

Has Turtle ever been to a football match? I don't think so. He just trolls around football message boards looking for homophibics, racists and political topics in general. Sad B*****d!

[Imploding Turtle]

Has Turtle ever been to a football match? I don't think so. He just trolls around football message boards looking for homophibics, racists and political topics in general. Sad B*****d!

Why you trying to make this about me?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Has Turtle ever been to a football match? I don't think so. He just trolls around football message boards looking for homophibics, racists and political topics in general. Sad B*****d!

If he hasn't, does this mean he can't discuss the issues you've mentioned?

Bit weird if that's the case.