RATE THE REF - Martin Atkinson V Brighton

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:01 pm

Martin Atkinson (West Yorkshire) v Brighton

How to Score
A. Decision Making (including use of advantage) - out of 25
B. Consistency - out of 25
C. Fitness and Positioning - of 25
D. Control and Authority - out of 25

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:04 pm

25
25
25
25

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:09 pm

Gave us nothing. 100% pen high foot on Bardsley

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:30 pm

A 22
B 21
C 25
D 23

burnleymik · Post by **burnleymik** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:32 pm

15
21
18
20

Aclaret · Post by **Aclaret** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:35 pm

12
19
20
20

Beagleheart · Post by **Beagleheart** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:32 pm

A. 19
B. 20
C. 22
D. 19

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:35 pm

Why do we score refs out of 25 but players out of 10?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Not sure how he can deserve such high marks when he missed the most blatant of penalties and a potential red card for the kick to Bardsley’s head. I probably shouldn’t be by now but I was absolutely astonished that he didn’t point to the spot. A ref I like but not his finest day. His reluctance to penalise time wasting in the first half meant that he couldn’t penalise the same tactics from us and ultimately contributed to a poor game of football.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:37 pm

kaptin1 wrote:Why do we score refs out of 25 but players out of 10?

They’re scored out of 100.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:40 pm

Worst game he's had for sometime. Should have spoken to their keeper prior to our goal for time wasting. Should have had either a free kick in the box or a penalty for the high kick and he decided to completely ignore it.

A.15
B.14
C.18
D.18

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:47 pm

Rileybobs wrote:They’re scored out of 100.

What are smart arses scored out of?

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:51 pm

kaptin1 wrote:What are smart arses scored out of?

Why am I a smart arse? They’re scored out of 100.

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:57 pm

Rileybobs wrote:Why am I a smart arse? They’re scored out of 100.

Clearly not that smart then .... 29

quoonbeatz · Post by **quoonbeatz** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:23 pm

anywhere else on the pitch the high foot on bardsley is a foul.

definitely one of the top ref but that was an appalling decision. not immediately clamping down on brighton's timewasting in the first half was beyond weak. its so easy to stamp it out, just book the keeper and its sorted. thankfully their only gameplan backfired on them.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:19 pm

I'm always happy when we get Atkinson, and I think he's the best, but I think he had an indifferent game by his standards today tbh. Still a lot better than many we have had, but got quite a few decisions wrong, - a couple of them big ones.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:24 pm

Thought it was hilarious in the 1st half ... the time wasting allowed to carry on .... then when Brighton were one down and we reciprocated ... the Brighton players questioning Acky about TIME WASTING....

Got to say
23
24
24
25

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:41 pm

15
0
20
20

Stproc · Post by **Stproc** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:45 pm

15
15
25
25

Usually decent but just let too much go today. The time wasting by both sides went completely unpunished and that kick in the head !!!

MDWat · Post by **MDWat** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:53 pm

A - 10
B - 10
C - 15
D - 10

Some baffling high scores. He was poor.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:56 pm

17
22
22
20

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:58 pm

Personally I think he is a poor referee. Weak as shown by the decision not to give us a penalty. Remember Ben Mee conceded a penalty at Arsenal for a foot up?

taio · Post by **taio** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:03 pm

Best referee in England. Wasn't his best day today though.

14
16
23
18

Woody9229 · Post by **Woody9229** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:04 pm

I'm sorry but if we had a penalty given against us for that overhead defensive clearance this board would have imploded. I sort of understand the outrage but it's not like it was stopping a goal scoring opportunity. Just my opinion as I sit here tiddly and very very happy to spend a Saturday night with 3 points in the bag.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:10 pm

Woody9229 wrote:I'm sorry but if we had a penalty given against us for that overhead defensive clearance this board would have imploded. I sort of understand the outrage but it's not like it was stopping a goal scoring opportunity. Just my opinion as I sit here tiddly and very very happy to spend a Saturday night with 3 points in the bag.

It should have been a penalty and a red card - whether some Burnley fans would have been upset had it been the other way is irrelevant.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:42 pm

kaptin1 wrote:Why do we score refs out of 25 but players out of 10?

Player ratings for as long as I can remember were out of 10, way back in the Sunday papers when I was a kid. However, when jdrobbo was setting up Rate The Ref he took advice from a former referee who advised this way of scoring.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:45 pm

Don't think he had a poor game but not at his best. I can accept him missing what I thought was a pen but what I can't get my head round was only adding on one minute at the end of the first half given all their time wasting.

A. 20
B. 15
C. 20
D. 15

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:12 pm

If as people are saying it was a high foot then the 're start of play should be an indirect free kick. Therefore not possible to be a penalty.
Before I get shouted at, I haven't seen the incident.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:16 pm

dpinsussex wrote:If as people are saying it was a high foot then the 're start of play should be an indirect free kick. Therefore not possible to be a penalty.
Before I get shouted at, I haven't seen the incident.

He kicked Bardsley in the head.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:22 pm

I must have attended the same match as MDWat!
I thought he was blind and deaf to everything.

simonclaret · Post by **simonclaret** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:59 am

ClaretTony wrote:Don't think he had a poor game but not at his best. I can accept him missing what I thought was a pen but what I can't get my head round was only adding on one minute at the end of the first half given all their time wasting.

A. 20
B. 15
C. 20
D. 15

I wondered whether he would have added more had it been 0-0, which shouldn’t make a difference of course.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:14 am

dpinsussex wrote:If as people are saying it was a high foot then the 're start of play should be an indirect free kick. Therefore not possible to be a penalty.
Before I get shouted at, I haven't seen the incident.

The indirect free-kick in the box seems to be obsolete nowadays. It appeared to me that they used to be routinely awarded back in the 60s and 70s, where refs apparently gave an indirect free-kick for obstruction or dangerous play rather than penalties.
When did we last have an indirect free-kick on the box, and when do you last recall seeing one on MOTD?
The Mee penalty at Arsenal was potentially a case in point. It was dangerous play - if an offence at all.
However: Also remember "Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the players. If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable with a direct free kick or penalty kick."
On that basis it was a penalty yesterday (IMO).

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:15 am

Woody9229 wrote:I'm sorry but if we had a penalty given against us for that overhead defensive clearance this board would have imploded. I sort of understand the outrage but it's not like it was stopping a goal scoring opportunity. Just my opinion as I sit here tiddly and very very happy to spend a Saturday night with 3 points in the bag.

We have - away at Arsenal two seasons ago in the last minute , given against Ben Mee for a near identical incident. You're quite right we weren't very happy, but the ex refs and pundits were unanimous it was correctly given as a penalty (and a yellow card).

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:16 am

nil_desperandum wrote:The indirect free-kick in the box seems to be obsolete nowadays. It appeared to me that they used to be routinely awarded back in the 60s and 70s, where refs apparently gave an indirect free-kick for obstruction or dangerous play rather than penalties.
When did we last have an indirect free-kick on the box, and when do you last recall seeing one on MOTD?
The Mee penalty at Arsenal was potentially a case in point. It was dangerous play - if an offence at all.
However: Also remember "Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the players. If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable with a direct free kick or penalty kick."
On that basis it was a penalty yesterday (IMO).

Correct, and Mee at Arsenal is the direct precedent.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:29 am

I thought Bruno dragging Brady down at the far post on the hour mark was an absolute stonewaller.

Untinted Glasses · Post by **Untinted Glasses** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:46 am

A. 0
B. 17
C. 17
D. 19

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:09 am

ClaretTony wrote:Player ratings for as long as I can remember were out of 10, way back in the Sunday papers when I was a kid. However, when jdrobbo was setting up Rate The Ref he took advice from a former referee who advised this way of scoring.

Thanks for a sensible answer!

Lord Beamish · Post by **Lord Beamish** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:12 am

ClaretTony wrote:Don't think he had a poor game but not at his best. I can accept him missing what I thought was a pen but what I can't get my head round was only adding on one minute at the end of the first half given all their time wasting.

This baffled me too. I can only assume that he didnt think that their ‘Keeper was actually wasting time.

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:16 am

In fairness, by the end of the first half it was Burnley who had most to lose by that time being added on - we wanted to get in one up. So it maybe that Atkinson decided not to allow Brighton to profit from their own time wasting.

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:17 am

[quote="ClaretTony"]Don't think he had a poor game but not at his best. I can accept him missing what I thought was a pen but what I can't get my head round was only adding on one minute at the end of the first half given all their time wasting.[w/quote]

Whilst I was surprised that it was only 1 minute maybe the fact that we were leading by the 45th minute the ref decided that they had infact been wasting their own time and why should they get the benefit of the 3 or 4 minutes that they had wasted? Of course I realise that it just could have been that he didn't consider that their keeper had wasted more than 1 minute!!

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:18 am

nil_desperandum wrote:The indirect free-kick in the box seems to be obsolete nowadays. It appeared to me that they used to be routinely awarded back in the 60s and 70s, where refs apparently gave an indirect free-kick for obstruction or dangerous play rather than penalties.
When did we last have an indirect free-kick on the box, and when do you last recall seeing one on MOTD?
The Mee penalty at Arsenal was potentially a case in point. It was dangerous play - if an offence at all.
However: Also remember "Playing in a dangerous manner involves no physical contact between the players. If there is physical contact, the action becomes an offence punishable with a direct free kick or penalty kick."
On that basis it was a penalty yesterday (IMO).

I am not disagreeing with you. As mentioned have not seen the incident only reading what was posted. Interestingly I gave 2 indirect free kicks yesterday for similar offences. As you say haven't given one for ages.

SalisburyClaret · Post by **SalisburyClaret** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:39 am

14
18
18
21

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:45 am

Indirect free kick

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:
controls the ball with the hands for more than six seconds before releasing it
touches the ball with the hands after:
releasing it and before it has touched another player
it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:
the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER

Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.

A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.

IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT

Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.

A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.

Well we don't see those rules applied do we? Dissent foul language etc if dealt with by the ref results in a direct free kick. Yesterday we saw a free kick given when one of our lads was judged to have had his foot too high early on in the first half.
I thought the indirect free kick had been abolished apart from the keeper picking up a back pass.
Shows how much I know-and the refs as well.
According to those rules above an indirect FK i n the box should have been awarded for Bardley's incident.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:47 am

mdd2 wrote:Indirect free kick

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:
controls the ball with the hands for more than six seconds before releasing it
touches the ball with the hands after:
releasing it and before it has touched another player
it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:
the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER

Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.

A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.

IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT

Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.

A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.

Well we don't see those rules applied do we? Dissent foul language etc if dealt with by the ref results in a direct free kick. Yesterday we saw a free kick given when one of our lads was judged to have had his foot too high early on in the first half.
I thought the indirect free kick had been abolished apart from the keeper picking up a back pass.
Shows how much I know-and the refs as well.
According to those rules above an indirect FK i n the box should have been awarded for Bardley's incident.

It should have been a penalty because he was kicked.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:51 am

Indirect free kicks are virtually unheard of nowadays. Definitely a pen. May have been a case for an indirect free kick if Bisouma hadn't made contact but as he did its an illegal challenge therefore a free kick or pen depending where on the pitch it took place.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:57 am

kaptin1 wrote:Thanks for a sensible answer!

Not sure why you have taken umbrage at my perfectly reasonable and sensible response which wasn’t in any way intended to be ‘smart’.

The refs are rated in 4 categories of 25 points which gives a total rating out of 100. We could rate them out of 10 but that would require rating each category out of 2.5.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:58 am

I think I missed out a small piece in those rules which is (and i quote0
"In the event that any offence is committed against a player for Burnley FC within the confines of the defenders penalty area during a Premier League game either at the ground of the home team or in Burnley, the referee will deem that the said offence did not take place and he will signal for play to continue; but at his discretion may deem that an offence has been committed by a Burnley player when he will award a free kick to the opposing side and may issue a yellow card to the Burnley player"
Apols for missing this bit

kaptin1 · Post by **kaptin1** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:56 am

Rileybobs wrote:Not sure why you have taken umbrage at my perfectly reasonable and sensible response which wasn’t in any way intended to be ‘smart’.

The refs are rated in 4 categories of 25 points which gives a total rating out of 100. We could rate them out of 10 but that would require rating each category out of 2.5.

Well, if you weren’t trying to be smart then I apologise, but that’s not the way it came across.

dpinsussex · Post by **dpinsussex** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:12 pm

mdd2 wrote:Indirect free kick

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:
plays in a dangerous manner
impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures or other verbal offences
prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player
An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:
controls the ball with the hands for more than six seconds before releasing it
touches the ball with the hands after:
releasing it and before it has touched another player
it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:
the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air
A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER

Playing in a dangerous manner is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.

A scissors or bicycle kick is permissible provided that it is not dangerous to an opponent.

IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT

Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.

All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.

A player may shield the ball by taking a position between an opponent and the ball if the ball is within playing distance and the opponent is not held off with the arms or body. If the ball is within playing distance, the player may be fairly charged by an opponent.

Well we don't see those rules applied do we? Dissent foul language etc if dealt with by the ref results in a direct free kick. Yesterday we saw a free kick given when one of our lads was judged to have had his foot too high early on in the first half.
I thought the indirect free kick had been abolished apart from the keeper picking up a back pass.
Shows how much I know-and the refs as well.
According to those rules above an indirect FK i n the box should have been awarded for Bardley's incident.

Those rules being the laws of the game

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Leisure wrote:Whilst I was surprised that it was only 1 minute maybe the fact that we were leading by the 45th minute the ref decided that they had infact been wasting their own time and why should they get the benefit of the 3 or 4 minutes that they had wasted? Of course I realise that it just could have been that he didn't consider that their keeper had wasted more than 1 minute!!

Refs aren't supposed to think like that. It should simply be 'what time to add on' regardless of consequences.

Of course it could have been the rotten conditions, or he was dying for a pee.