Hes a tidy tidy footballer and we play better when he plays. One of the first names on the team sheet for me.

JimMcDonald wrote:Hes a tidy tidy footballer and we play better when he plays. One of the first names on the team sheet for me.

There in lies out problem. OK as a back up and won’t let you down. Too limited though.

But not a sicknote.

DCWat wrote:There in lies out problem. OK as a back up and won’t let you down. Too limited though.

Compared to who?

New pair of CMs needed urgently.

If you dont know then maybe try uorefd

summitclaret wrote:If you dont know then maybe try uorefd

See what you mean

Thought he played well today but is a rich mans james O’Connor. Not particularly big, fast, good in the air, doesn’t find a pass often, can’t shoot and rarely tackles. However he is neat and tidy and keeps the ball moving fairly well.

Dreadful today

JimMcDonald wrote:Hes a tidy tidy footballer and we play better when he plays. One of the first names on the team sheet for me.

If you like him that much, make him your captain too.

MDWat wrote:Dreadful today

Not dreadful IMO, just not very good today. He's ok in a 3 if he's the ratger. However in a 2, when we don't create much, he looks very ineffective offensively.

He's tidy enough but way, way short of being a Premiership player and if we're going to aspire to anything then we have to shove sentiimentalilty to one side and call it as it is ... he's not up to it. We need someone in midfield with some grit.

If we're going to play a 2-man CM then we're far more likely to only concede 0/1 with Westwood instead of Defour.

Given our current limitations in terms of goal scoring/creativity that's vital - surely an area that has to be top priority in January though.

He comes in and does well for 3 or 4 matches then it starts to slide. Perfect on the bench and would be OK in a MF 3.

Not his best day today but he was excellent against Liverpool. Between him and Cork we are short of physicality and drive in the midfield though and we really need to address this in January.

If he could eventually score a goal it might help, but I can’t see it happening.

Rileybobs wrote:Not his best day today but he was excellent against Liverpool. Between him and Cork we are short of physicality and drive in the midfield though and we really need to address this in January.

Or there is Hendrick, who we payed 10 million for, Irish, played well this season when he’s had the chance, often played out of position, but is actually a premier league standard player who we should be utilising in centre mid, where he can have a real effect... Hendrick and defour I think would combine brilliantly in centre mid but we’ve never seen them before.

Ffs I have it all now. Westwood is never ever a Premier league player and is consistently shite.

He was awful yesterday and as always contributes little

Top Claret wrote:Ffs I have it all now. Westwood is never ever a Premier league player and is consistently shite.

He was awful yesterday and as always contributes little

He was not awfully yesterday.

MDWat wrote:Dreadful today

Pretty staggered by this comment. I thought he had a decent game - perhaps not his tidiest game in possession (although his pass completion rate was 84% from 44 passes, compared to Cork's 55% from 27), but the conditions didn't help with that. He was regularly involved and produced a super cross for the goal. Dreadful, then, seems a massive overstatement.

Westwood is never going to be a world beater and in truth he's a lower end Premier League player who is only ever going to make a top-flight career in a team like ours. But he's a solid, reliable performer and I reckon he's actually been one of our better players this season. He doesn't particularly do eye-catching, and he probably plays a bit safe at times, but he does the basics and unshowy stuff well and I think he's another who adds a bit of leadership on the pitch. I said after the Liverpool game that I thought he was going to be one of our key players in the second half of the season, and I stand by that.

At the minute, on form, I think he's the first name on the team sheet in midfield. I thought Cork had a better game yesterday, but his stats are still pretty ordinary and he's well below his best, and Defour and Westwod isn't really a partnership (they're too similar, and apart from anything else neither compete well enough in the air), so Hendrick for Cork would be a very tempting change. Whenever they've played together in the past, they've had a nice, instinctive understanding and gelled together.

Neat and Tidy but disappears for large chunks of games. You can’t have somebody doing that. The middle of the park is critical in the Premier League defensively and offensively. If we are to survive we need to get a player in there whose a real focal point for the team as soon as the transfer window opens.

For which period of the game did he disappear yesterday? I thought he was involved throughout.

I thought he was bang average yesterday. He gave the ball away more than a couple of times in dangerous positions, one of which Brighton should have scored from 1st half

claretspice wrote:For which period of the game did he disappear yesterday? I thought he was involved throughout.

The thread title says Westwood not Westwoid Yesterday ! Although I would say along with Cork he was virtually non existent in the last fifteen minutes when we needed to get away from the edge of our box. We haven’t got a midfielder in the squad who can drag us up the pitch when we are under pressure and I maintain if we just stick with the four we have we will make it harder for ourselves to survive.

Shore claret wrote:He was not awfully yesterday.

Oh yes he was

Top Claret wrote:Oh yes he was

I'll play, in the spirit of the season.
Oh no he wasn't.

RocketLawnChair wrote:The thread title says Westwood not Westwoid Yesterday ! Although I would say along with Cork he was virtually non existent in the last fifteen minutes when we needed to get away from the edge of our box. We haven’t got a midfielder in the squad who can drag us up the pitch when we are under pressure and I maintain if we just stick with the four we have we will make it harder for ourselves to survive.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure it is fair to blame either midfielder for the last 15 minutes yesterday, or to expect a midfielder to get you up the pitch in that way to relieve pressure. We came under pressure yesterday for a heap of reasons - the first being that whenever you are defending a one-goal lead, the opposition are inevitably (and rightly) going to throw bodies forwards to try and get a goal. Brighton did that. The second is that at one stage we had at least 3 people on the pitch - JBG, Brady, Barnes, struggling with injury. The third reason is that confidence is low and that inevitably makes a team sit on what they have and invite pressure later on. The final reason is that we stopped holding the ball as well up front (possibly because Barnes was struggling with a knock) and so we lacked an outlet - I'd always say that its the job of the front player(s) to provide an outlet to relieve pressure - the midfielders can only assist in doing that if they have that outlet.

What we did see from all of the players yesterday was a lot of commitment and determination to put their bodies on the line in the last 15 minutes, Westwood and Cork as much as anyone.

claretspice wrote:Pretty staggered by this comment. I thought he had a decent game - perhaps not his tidiest game in possession (although his pass completion rate was 84% from 44 passes, compared to Cork's 55% from 27), but the conditions didn't help with that. He was regularly involved and produced a super cross for the goal. Dreadful, then, seems a massive overstatement.

Westwood is never going to be a world beater and in truth he's a lower end Premier League player who is only ever going to make a top-flight career in a team like ours. But he's a solid, reliable performer and I reckon he's actually been one of our better players this season. He doesn't particularly do eye-catching, and he probably plays a bit safe at times, but he does the basics and unshowy stuff well and I think he's another who adds a bit of leadership on the pitch. I said after the Liverpool game that I thought he was going to be one of our key players in the second half of the season, and I stand by that.

At the minute, on form, I think he's the first name on the team sheet in midfield. I thought Cork had a better game yesterday, but his stats are still pretty ordinary and he's well below his best, and Defour and Westwod isn't really a partnership (they're too similar, and apart from anything else neither compete well enough in the air), so Hendrick for Cork would be a very tempting change. Whenever they've played together in the past, they've had a nice, instinctive understanding and gelled together.

Instead of looking through some stat site form your own opinions. Did you actually go to the game or do you just right an essay on stats?

Nearly everyone bar a few half wits are of the same opinion, that Westwood was crap yesterday

7 seasons in the Premier League with us and Villa. But yes no where near a Premier League player

We always look a bit more solid with Westwood in the team but create little from centre midfield, it can also be slow and laboured getting it forward. Corks struggling a little atm. Definitely think we need a new cm in January who can play a little but is also strong and tough. No idea who though. Kante maybe?!

Top Claret wrote:Instead of looking through some stat site form your own opinions. Did you actually go to the game or do you just right an essay on stats?

Nearly everyone bar a few half wits are of the same opinion, that Westwood was crap yesterday

I do form my own opinions, thanks. I was at the game, had an excellent view and watched the game closely. Handily, when I had a quick look at the stats, they happened to back up the opinion that I'd already formed, which is why I used them to support my case. If you disagree, then that's absolutely fine, although I'm not sure that makes me a half-wit.

Pretty backwards to suggest that stats shouldn't be used at all. They're used in every sport these days, and as we know, Dyche himself is a big user of stats - not to replace the evidence of your own eyes, but as supporting evidence.

Top Claret wrote:Instead of looking through some stat site form your own opinions. Did you actually go to the game or do you just right an essay on stats?

Nearly everyone bar a few half wits are of the same opinion, that Westwood was crap yesterday

I'm not sure you are in a position to call others half wits with some of your illegible ramblings.

Maybe that is Dyches problem and the reason why we are in the bottom 5. Dyche wants to look whats in front of him instead have letting his stat man pick the side.

We have zero drive from the mid 2, this has got to addressed if we are to stop up this season

Rileybobs wrote:I'm not sure you are in a position to call others half wits with some of your illegible ramblings.

And so say all of us

Top Claret wrote:Maybe that is Dyches problem and the reason why we are in the bottom 5. Dyche wants to look whats in front of him instead have letting his stat man pick the side.

We have zero drive from the mid 2, this has got to addressed if we are to stop up this season

OK, fine. I can see that, if you are seriously suggesting that Dyche lets his "stat man" (whoever he may be) pick the side, then trying to have a sensible discussion about this with you is going to be pretty futile, so I'll give up.

Top Claret wrote:Maybe that is Dyches problem and the reason why we are in the bottom 5. Dyche wants to look whats in front of him instead have letting his stat man pick the side.

We have zero drive from the mid 2, this has got to addressed if we are to stop up this season

I agree with that statement about midfield two, we desperately need two gritty ball winners like torreira at arsenal , he was an excellent buy. Brady would have free licence to roam then.

Were not tall enough in midfield either at moment and the tackling isnt good enough so other teams forwards just run straight through and there onto our defence straight away.

Good win yesterday tho

He is exactly as my Aston Villa mate said he was , for which I got slated for on here

joey13 wrote:He is exactly as my Aston Villa mate said he was , for which I got slated for on here

Seem to remember most villa fans were chuffed when allbrighton left.

Shore claret wrote:Seem to remember most villa fans were chuffed when allbrighton left.

What has that got to do with Westwood?

Villa fans aren't great at spotting a good player.

claretspice wrote:OK, fine. I can see that, if you are seriously suggesting that Dyche lets his "stat man" (whoever he may be) pick the side, then trying to have a sensible discussion about this with you is going to be pretty futile, so I'll give up.

It is also futile to have sensible discussion with somebody who talks down to you. But I will bow to your superior football knowledge. Hmmmmmmm Where would we be without Ashley Westwood.

I don't claim any superior knowledge, and I'm not talking down to anyone. I'm just pointing out it is pretty harsh to blame either central midfielder for the fact we weren't able to get up the pitch in the final 15 minutes yesterday, when that was quite obviously a collective issue. If you disagree, fair enough, but I'd be interested to know why.

claretspice wrote:I don't claim any superior knowledge, and I'm not talking down to anyone. I'm just pointing out it is pretty harsh to blame either central midfielder for the fact we weren't able to get up the pitch in the final 15 minutes yesterday, when that was quite obviously a collective issue. If you disagree, fair enough, but I'd be interested to know why.

In my “humble opinion” I don’t have any ‘facts’ and I don’t know anything ‘obviously’I just think things are easier in football if you can control the middle of the pitch. Cork and Westwood virtually disappeared in my unfactual opinion

I think Westwood does a decent enough job as backup but we definately need more drive from central midfield. We do need to look at this area in January. You don't have to agree with him but there is no doubt that Claretspice watches the game closely and knows his football.

If Westwood is the first name on the team sheet, then I'm afraid we're in real trouble. It's very easy to take his 84% passing ratio and to state he had a good game. Does it breakdown how many of them are particularly easy passes backwards to the defence in comparison to forward passes? I'd be very interested to read those stats. He gave the ball away an awful lot when going forwards. He does the same job as Cork but Cork does it more effectively, regardless of these passing stats. Cork breaks up play better and tries to pass forward.

He's extremely limited, offers next to nothing going forward and if we want to really solidify ourselves as a Premier League club, then I'm afraid we need better than him.

And yes I attended, yes I watched the game closely and yes I had a great view.

I think that's a remarkably harsh assessment but there we go. The only point I'd make is that, in response to your point that he doesn't offer anything going forwards, that the goal came from his superb cross, and the chance for Wood from Barnes chest down came from a similarly excellent cross he produced. Slightly different but he also produced the excellent corner from which Tarks headed narrowly wide. That's three chances he directly created yesterday - leaving aside involvement in the build up to other moves. I'm not sure anyone else created that many.

Not saying he's a world beater - see my first post on the thread - but he made positive attaching contributions yesterday - as he did against Liverpool, and as he did in the wins against Bournemouth and Cardiff too. Not sure it's too coincidental he's missed a lot of the poorer intervening performances, but that's just my opinion.

Shore claret wrote:Villa fans aren't great at spotting a good player.

You’ve met my mate then

We have played a total of 23 competitive matches this season and have won 5, drawn 6 and lost 12.
Westwood has started 5 games that we have won, 5 that we have drawn and 6 that we have lost. Those are the plain facts and you can make of them what you will

MDWat wrote:If Westwood is the first name on the team sheet, then I'm afraid we're in real trouble. It's very easy to take his 84% passing ratio and to state he had a good game. Does it breakdown how many of them are particularly easy passes backwards to the defence in comparison to forward passes? I'd be very interested to read those stats. He gave the ball away an awful lot when going forwards. He does the same job as Cork but Cork does it more effectively, regardless of these passing stats. Cork breaks up play better and tries to pass forward.

He's extremely limited, offers next to nothing going forward and if we want to really solidify ourselves as a Premier League club, then I'm afraid we need better than him.

And yes I attended, yes I watched the game closely and yes I had a great view.

I've watched all the home games closely, 3 away games on TV and Cork has been pretty dismal at breaking play up and passing in general. Didn't aggi put some stats up the other week? If Hendrick isn't to be used then at least 1 new centre midfielder is required ASAP.