Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Cleveleys_claret » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:53 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Oh please **** off. "clubs like ours being dragged into it so someone can get airtime"? This was 18 years ago. It clearly affected him and his opinion of us because he remembered it, and your biggest objection is that he talks about it? To get airtime? Get ******, mate. You're sick of these people talking about it and bringing it up 18 years later? Imagine having to experience it, and be affected by it so much that 18 years later you still remember it.

But whatever right? You said the right things, you've demonstrated you're not a racist and don't agree with racism. Now if only black people could stop talking about their experiences then everything would be alright.
For starters as mentioned by another poster we didnt play QPR 18 years ago. It was 16 years ago when he was on the bench. Straight away there is an issue with the facts of what he has said. If I was abused in such a way that it affected me I sure as hell would remember when it was.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by basil6345789 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:59 pm

Given the above offerings he sounds like an unreliable witness.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Imploding Turtle » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:07 pm

Cleveleys_claret wrote:For starters as mentioned by another poster we didnt play QPR 18 years ago. It was 16 years ago when he was on the bench. Straight away there is an issue with the facts of what he has said. If I was abused in such a way that it affected me I sure as hell would remember when it was.
So you think it's unusual for victims to get details like that wrong? I was a victim of a serious crime in 2001 and can't remember whether it happened in August or September. And the only reason i'm sure it was 2001 was because of other things such as where i was living and that it was after the riots and the Burnley Express tried to make them connected crimes. I find it entirely believable that someone can mis-remember when exactly they received racist abuse, especially if they've received it throughout their careers and there are many examples to have to remember before people like you will believe them.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Conroy92 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:11 pm

I agree that racism is disgusting and should not be tolerated anywhere in society, I do believe 18 years ago at the turf you might have heard racism. However as someone further up pointed out , Karl Henry did not feature as a sub against us 18 years ago and therefore at that time, did not suffer any racial abuse. Its more likely it was 16 years ago. Any posters sat in the bob lord 16 years ago hear anything? Heard anything recently?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:13 pm

Whats it matter, 16, 18, 20 years or whatever. Posters on here say there was racist abuse in those days - and it was commonplace. Even if he got the club wrong, and he meant Barnsley, the point remains.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Conroy92 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:21 pm

Agreed! I said in my post I believe you could hear racism at the turf 18 years ago.
I have heard it more recently as i suspect most posters have, although not for a few years now.

The last racist comment I heard made was about a Tottenham striker going home to sack potatoes.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by lostinthegame » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:30 pm

JimMcDonald wrote:Burnley is as racist as they come.
That's something of a broad generalisation...
Its part and partial of living here.
Well if that's the case I'd rather move away from my town (near) Burnley and stop supporting our club, as I'm not really "partial" to that kind of thing as it goes totally against my values as a human being.
Asians dont feel safe on the Turf thats why there is hardly any go on. I seen an asian man and his kid at a game last season they looked scared to death.
I've seen a lot more Asian lads in their teens/twenties in the last five years and they've seemed fine and relaxed. Maybe the guys you speak of were just cold, or it's all in your head of dubious intent.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by basil6345789 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:43 pm

First time I saw racism on 't Turf was early 60's when someone on the Star Stand side lobbed a banana at Leeds' flying winger Albert Johanneson - he threw it back! I was young and remember thinking "he's Leeds but that's going too far".
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:48 pm

Iam sure the people he told about it at the time will remember which year it was, and which ground.
18 yrs ago didn't the subs warm up at the opposite end of the Bob lord stand, usually where the linesman was, then they moved them away from the linesman. If that was the case perhaps the linesman heard it? Or some of the other subs from either club?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Claretforever » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:53 pm

If Henry had said it was a comment from an individual 18 years ago you might take it more as gospel, but he says “monkey chants”. Monkey chants from the Bob Lord? Come on, there probably are a few idiots in there but it’s the quietest and probably most staid part of the ground. And it was a game we won during a part of the season which wasn’t life or death.

I’m wondering if it’s one of those where someone has told a story and over time he believes it was himself in the role of victim instead of someone else?

It would be more believable if he’d said he was playing at Turf Moor, went to retrieve a ball from the crowd and heard it. Maybe he’s right and we need to confiscate those rugs and flasks from those Bob Lorders. They clearly cannot be trusted!

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:54 pm

Grumps wrote:If that was the case perhaps the linesman heard it? Or some of the other subs from either club?
In those days, it was probably the linesman giving it.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Lord Rothbury » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:57 pm

This happened 18 yrs ago ,if it happened at all,Henry was so upset about it it took so long to report it . Do we really think racism is all one way if you do try walking as a white person through Stoneyholme. Racism was rife years ago but things have improved .Well anti black racism has .

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:03 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:This happened 18 yrs ago ,if it happened at all,Henry was so upset about it it took so long to report it . Do we really think racism is all one way if you do try walking as a white person through Stoneyholme. Racism was rife years ago but things have improved .Well anti black racism has .
He's not reported it, he has just contributed to a 5Live phone-in bit.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Lord Rothbury » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:07 pm

Same thing .Why not speak up when it "happened"

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by claptrappers_union » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Same thing .Why not speak up when it "happened"
Because the approach to anti-racism was a bit different back then. maybe in in 20 years time people might be asking you why you didn't report foul language. Actually, when you heard racist chanting at Turf Moor - why didn't you report it?!

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Lord Rothbury » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:41 pm

claptrappers_union wrote:Because the approach to anti-racism was a bit different back then. maybe in in 20 years time people might be asking you why you didn't report foul language. Actually, when you heard racist chanting at Turf Moor - why didn't you report it?!
Where did I say I had heard racist chanting?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:58 pm

Just to add I sat in that area at the time, and every season since and I've never heard any monkey chants

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by bfccrazy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:22 pm

duncandisorderly wrote:No doubt it still exists, but when I was 11 year old (25 years ago), going to the paki shop was part of every day life. It's not anymore.
It's changed and it's not as prevalent amongst the younger generation as it was.
Depending on how racist parents were it might take longer to fall down the generations, but it's not like it was.

Again, just reading this thread, you have widespread monkey chants and paki chants 20 years ago and now you only hear the odd nutter mumbling or ranting at a taxi. There's not a communal effort to be racist anymore, either at school, football or generally in life.

Obviously it still happens, but like blowjobs once you're married, it's a lot less common.
I always have that conversation with my partners dad - I’m Asian and engaged to an English (white) girl. Her dad always says how it was the norm when he was younger and it’s was on tv etc .... so he has to be extra careful of how he words things nowadays as what was acceptable is rightly not now.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Rileybobs » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:22 pm

Crazy how many people are desperate for this not to be true, or desperate to paint Henry as a liar. It’s generally the posters I would expect it to be.

It’s not in the slightest bit hard to believe that Henry was racially abused at Turf Moor 16 years ago considering I witnessed, at very close quarters, two adults being ejected from Valley Parade for shamelessly racially abusing a Bradford City player just over 2 years ago.
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Cleveleys_claret » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:19 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:So you think it's unusual for victims to get details like that wrong? I was a victim of a serious crime in 2001 and can't remember whether it happened in August or September. And the only reason i'm sure it was 2001 was because of other things such as where i was living and that it was after the riots and the Burnley Express tried to make them connected crimes. I find it entirely believable that someone can mis-remember when exactly they received racist abuse, especially if they've received it throughout their careers and there are many examples to have to remember before people like you will believe them.
He said it was the only time he had ever recieved racist abuse during his whole career

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Darnhill Claret » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Maybe the original interview was from a couple of years ago. Why can’t we just accept what he says without trying to discredit him on a technicality?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by AlargeClaret » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:31 pm

Early mid 80’s was shocking though by mid 90’s it had eased off and was pretty isolated by 2000 . Last actual race chants I heard at Turf were near end of the “Waddle” season I think . It’s entirely socially unacceptable to abuse black players and seems bloody embarrassing looking back .Though if 600,000 people watch matches weekly the odd tool is always to be expected . Though quite how the male tampon above who blames Brexit for it reaches that conclusion really does beggar belief .

As for Karl Henry don’t see why he’d have reason to lie but he is about to retire and neither is he shy of a bit of publicity ( see his twitter spat with the wife beating dogger Stan Collymore )

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Bosscat » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Early mid 80’s was shocking though by mid 90’s it had eased off and was pretty isolated by 2000 . Last actual race chants I heard at Turf were near end of the “Waddle” season I think . It’s entirely socially unacceptable to abuse black players and seems bloody embarrassing looking back .Though if 600,000 people watch matches weekly the odd tool is always to be expected . Though quite how the male tampon above who blames Brexit for it reaches that conclusion really does beggar belief .

As for Karl Henry don’t see why he’d have reason to lie but he is about to retire and neither is he shy of a bit of publicity ( see his twitter spat with the wife beating dogger Stan Collymore )
"Though quite how the male tampon above who blames Brexit for it reaches that conclusion really does beggar belief "

He/She also probably thinks Papparazzi is bloody Pizza topping

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:28 am

Cleveleys_claret wrote:He said it was the only time he had ever recieved racist abuse during his whole career

ok. That still doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly normal to get timelines mistaken 18 or 16 years later.

What do you think is more likely, that he made it up entirely just because he has a particular hatred for Burnley, or that he was mistaken about one detail 16 years later?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:32 am

it's an easy fix, any time a player is racially abused his team should just leave the field of play and be backed by the authorities for doing so - it would stop overnight. I remember a Claret shouting nonsense during a minutes silence at Anfield and he got kicked from the back of the stand to the front by fellow Clarets until he got booted out of the ground - same thing would happen. There is no room for racism, I ******* hate it. Start awarding the opposition 3 points and the offending team docked 10 points. The pressure to behave would be immense. It's a simple fix but requires balls which the FA and PL don't have
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:15 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:ok. That still doesn't change the fact that it's perfectly normal to get timelines mistaken 18 or 16 years later.

What do you think is more likely, that he made it up entirely just because he has a particular hatred for Burnley, or that he was mistaken about one detail 16 years later?
People keep coming up with examples, but has anyone, at anytime heard monkey chants in the Bob lord stand? And specifically at that end.... Lots of folk used to stand below the police box near to where the subs warmed up.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by ClaretMoffitt » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:27 am

Well it will certainly make a few on here happy as they love nothing better than to stick the knife into our club and town when it comes to racism. True or not.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:38 am

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Well it will certainly make a few on here happy as they love nothing better than to stick the knife into our club and town when it comes to racism. True or not.

We like it when racism is exposed and out in the open. There's nothing wrong with liking that. We like it when it happens in Burnley's instance only because it make it possible for us to do something about it.

But sure, you're the real victim here.

Also, the idea that we like false accusations of racism is really ******* stupid.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by CharlieinNewMexico » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:38 am

I was in the Bob Lord from about 76-88. Towards the Bee Hole End. Level with the 18 yard line.

Did I ever hear " chants" (people together in unison)? no.
Did I ever hear individuals giving it the " you ### ######"? Yes.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by fatboy47 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:51 am

Woodleyclaret wrote:People in Nelson can probably give you current examples of racial abuse without resorting to the past.Unfortunately,some areas of Nelson are rife with it.
Both white and Asian racists are common in East Lancs.Failure to create a multicultural society with shared respect is a sad fact.BSF and creating a predominately Asian heritage school out of two mixed schools doesnt help.Mansfield and Walton werent perfect examples of multiculturalism but better than what was created by BSF and LCC misguided policies

Is BSF Big Sam Fat? Or something else?
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:39 am

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:I was in the Bob Lord from about 76-88. Towards the Bee Hole End. Level with the 18 yard line.

Did I ever hear " chants" (people together in unison)? no.
Did I ever hear individuals giving it the " you ### ######"? Yes.
Did you ever see or hear, overtly racist monkey chants?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:05 am

Grumps wrote:Did you ever see or hear, overtly racist monkey chants?
Let's assume he didn't, then what?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:25 am

Then that would be another person who's never heard such thing, nobody has said they've ever heard it in that part of the ground. Just trying to get the facts.. I find it's the best way

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Imploding Turtle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:32 am

Grumps wrote:Then that would be another person who's never heard such thing, nobody has said they've ever heard it in that part of the ground. Just trying to get the facts.. I find it's the best way
But he's already said he heard racist chanting. So i guess to you it only counts if the racist chanting is a monkey chant?

I know what you're up to. It's not as subtle as you think.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:48 am

It's a monkey chant that's alledged

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Spijed » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:52 am

Vegas Claret wrote:Start awarding the opposition 3 points and the offending team docked 10 points. The pressure to behave would be immense. It's a simple fix but requires balls which the FA and PL don't have
Do that and you'll just have supporters accusing rival fans of racist comments just to try and get opposing teams docked points. It'll become a finger pointing witch hunt.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by jlup1980 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:54 am

The issue I have with our club being dragged into this latest racism debate is the whole town will be portrayed as racist. We'll just be that simple folk from up north, you know the stereotype; flat caps, whippets, “it's grim up north“ rubbish.

Clubs in the North always come out of these debates worse than they're southern counterparts. It's 4 fans at Chelsea, not the entire support and the local area; just those 4 idiots. I'd much rather we weren't dragged through the mud for misdemeanours, no matter the context, from upward of 20 years ago.

Throw the book at these Chelsea morons and move on!
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:16 pm

Spijed wrote:Do that and you'll just have supporters accusing rival fans of racist comments just to try and get opposing teams docked points. It'll become a finger pointing witch hunt.
no you won't, there are microphones in all the grounds and the chants are easily heard. I'm also talking specifically about the players, FA and PL can do to empower the players. Agree you could always have a Bong type incident but it's still a better solution than the lack of one we currently have - there is no deterrent presently. Look how much trouble there used to be inside grounds, it's virtually non existent now because the people in power decided to do something about it and that's what needs to be done with racism.

If those Chelsea fans get locked up for 5 years do you think a lot more people will think before opening their mouth cause I do ! Deterrent required

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:29 pm

Interesting that the Chelsea fan claims to have called Sterling a Manc c**t and not a black one.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by AlargeClaret » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:14 pm

Bordeauxclaret wrote:Interesting that the Chelsea fan claims to have called Sterling a Manc c**t and not a black one.
"He would say that wouldn't he"

I hope this doesn't end up another of those lip reading things like with Rio's brother and John Terry. If it's clear he called him a "black c***" he should be life banned etc no question about it. Though if in (the rather unlikely) event he did i fact call him a "Manc c*** " lets hope he's fully exonnerrated. Though it appears the mob has it's pitchforks and burning torches already lit so somones head will have to roll be it fully deserved or not. The ever fuelled fire now has "the black merson" John Barnes quoted a saying "i have invisible bananas thrown at me every day"

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by lostinthegame » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:55 pm

jlup1980 wrote:The issue I have with our club being dragged into this latest racism debate is the whole town will be portrayed as racist. We'll just be that simple folk from up north, you know the stereotype; flat caps, whippets, “it's grim up north“ rubbish.

Clubs in the North always come out of these debates worse than they're southern counterparts. It's 4 fans at Chelsea, not the entire support and the local area; just those 4 idiots. I'd much rather we weren't dragged through the mud for misdemeanours, no matter the context, from upward of 20 years ago.

Throw the book at these Chelsea morons and move on!
The Southampton fans (obviously defending former player Rodriguez) also booed Bong relentlessly in their last home game with Brighton; though nobody seems to be blaming their whole town (hardly an affluent paradise itself.)

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by lostinthegame » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:27 pm

AlargeClaret wrote:Though quite how the male tampon above who blames Brexit for it reaches that conclusion really does beggar belief .
If that was aimed at me I wasn't blaming Brexit for increased racism in football at all, but for it making different socio-political demographics and parts of the country bitterly distrust each other to a point where they don't want to breathe the same air.

This particularly rears its ugly head in things like Bonggate - some Brighton fans were desperate to look for a racist element to us booing him because some "liberal" Southerners who mostly voted Remain absolutely despise the working class industrial North who mostly voted Leave, even more than snooty upper-class Tories hate Burnley for being working class/Labour heartlands, but the former can get away with this more than the latter by yelling "Racists! Homophobes!" etc as a virtue-signalling smokescreen.
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by UpTheClaretsFCBK » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:40 pm

lostinthegame wrote:


Nobody's saying Burnley is a paradise, there are great things and bloody awful things about it, just like most places on Earth. It's just that to the media and people who dislike us, it's not "kick one and we all limp", but "one idiot and all of us are to blame."
It's considerably more than one idiot.

I know waves of Burnley fans that are openly racist.

I experienced people using the N word on a coach a couple of seasons ago, I won't name the supporters club as I've chosen never to use them again.

This kind of thing isn't plucked out of thin air.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:29 am

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:It's considerably more than one idiot.

I know waves of Burnley fans that are openly racist.

I experienced people using the N word on a coach a couple of seasons ago, I won't name the supporters club as I've chosen never to use them again.

This kind of thing isn't plucked out of thin air.
Of course you do.

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by lostinthegame » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:17 pm

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:It's considerably more than one idiot.
I experienced people using the N word on a coach a couple of seasons ago, I won't name the supporters club as I've chosen never to use them again.
Glad you responded to it, did you report it though?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:33 pm

I'm struggling to understand the motivation of posters who trying to pretend this stuff doesn't happen to be perfectly honest.

Care to enlighten me?

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by fidelcastro » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:39 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm struggling to understand the motivation of posters who trying to pretend this stuff doesn't happen to be perfectly honest.

Care to enlighten me?
It's called burying one's head in the sand.

:(
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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Grumps » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm struggling to understand the motivation of posters who trying to pretend this stuff doesn't happen to be perfectly honest.

Care to enlighten me?
From what I've read nobody is saying it doesn't happen, just questioning the facts around this specific allegation

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:33 pm

Why though?

It sounds (sadly) perfectly plausible

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Re: Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

Post by Damo » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:39 pm

UpTheClaretsFCBK wrote:It's considerably more than one idiot.

I know waves of Burnley fans that are openly racist.

I experienced people using the N word on a coach a couple of seasons ago, I won't name the supporters club as I've chosen never to use them again.

This kind of thing isn't plucked out of thin air.
I was reading g a status on f***book a week or so ago, someone had shared a picture of the bloke who threw a banana skin at Aubameyang. Two Burnley fans were celebrating his effort (in our defence, they both looked like the type of people who go to the pub at 10am every day)
We certainly do have some absolute sc**bags amongst us, and it only takes one person to give the town a bad name
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