Karl Henry - Monkey taunts at Turf Moor

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Glad you responded to it, did you report it though?

Yes, the football club was notified and the supporters club was warned.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Of course you do.

Yeah you’re right, I’m just making it up for the laugh.

[Grumps]

Why though?

It sounds (sadly) perfectly plausible

Is it plausible? Monkey chants from that area of the Bob lord stand? Nobody has said they have witnessed that behaviour in that area.. Ever.

[Quickenthetempo]

Yeah you’re right, I’m just making it up for the laugh.

I would say you're wildly exaggerating.

The odd racist comment has been heard or reported yet you know waves of Burnley fans that are openly racist?

Are the stewards, police and normal behaved fans turning a blind eye on a regular basis?

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

I would say you're wildly exaggerating.

The odd racist comment has been heard or reported yet you know waves of Burnley fans that are openly racist?

Are the stewards, police and normal behaved fans turning a blind eye on a regular basis?

I haven’t claimed I’ve heard it on the Turf, people are cleverer than that.

Have you heard the saying “banning something doesn’t get rid of an opinion, it merely supresses it and creates more more resentment”

My statement is mainly based on what I’ve seen on social media, rather that said in person, but I have cited an example also when I have heard it in person.

I’m happy to post numerous examples if it makes you feel better.

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Example one:

https://youtu.be/YvCw3dngxKs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[UpTheClaretsFCBK]

Burnley’s sect of the EDL is even using our clubs badge, their Facebook group has over 1,000 members, most of which are Burnley fans.

You’re burying your head in the sand if you don’t think Burnley is a racist area.

[Quickenthetempo]

Sorry I thought you meant on the Turf.

Do you see this racist behaviour every day in Burnley?

[AlargeClaret]

My statement is mainly based on what I’ve seen on social media, rather that said in person, but I have cited an example also when I have heard it in person


And herein lies the crux of your argument . Your citing as fact what twitter type users post many who have never left their bedrooms never mind been on a match

[Imploding Turtle]

Sorry I thought you meant on the Turf.

Do you see this racist behaviour every day in Burnley?

Those goalposts keep shifting.

[duncandisorderly]

Burnley’s sect of the EDL is even using our clubs badge, their Facebook group has over 1,000 members, most of which are Burnley fans.

You’re burying your head in the sand if you don’t think Burnley is a racist area.

I don't mean to pick nits, but that's not our club's badge. (I don't think....I get the connotation, I'm not an idiot, but isnt that the borough coat of arms rather than the clubs?)

[Grumps]

Those goalposts keep shifting.

The thread is about alledged behaviour on turf moor, people have expanded the discussion to suit their own agendas

[lostinthegame]

I'm struggling to understand the motivation of posters who trying to pretend this stuff doesn't happen to be perfectly honest.

Care to enlighten me?

I don't think anyone's pretending it ever went away 100% but due to the last few years' huge on-pitch success, people were scared to go public about racist/offensive fellow fans in case they upset any feelgood factor in the club and town.

I don't want to keep going on about Bonggate but I think our fans were more defensive than usual amongst such tension/excitement about us being so close to getting the points to qualify for Europe. Also peppered with "Ya gotta be kidding me" laughter at the two recent articles (L'Equipe and the MEN) that respectively accused our club of being racists for having odd-shaped heads, and for booing Sterling using a photo of white and Asian guys who were actually mates...

Now this season's brought the team back down to earth with a bump, and the real world rather than playing at Athens and Istanbul in high summer, maybe the decent Clarets supporters will be more honest about the ignorant people who bring this club (and town) down.

I don't hear bigoted stuff at every game I go to, the increased presence of young Asian fans helps people to think twice, but every now and then I still hear revolting, f**ked up things.

[Imploding Turtle]

The thread is about alledged behaviour on turf moor, people have expanded the discussion to suit their own agendas

One guy said he knows of waves of burnley fans who are racist. Another guy called bullshit. so the guy then posts video evidence. Then the guy who incorrectly called bullshit applied another condition that wasn't originally claimed by the guy making the claim.

That's called moving the goalposts, and it's not the firs time in this thread that it's happened.

Also, i have noticed that you in particular, across multiple threads, seem to be especially perturbed that this entire conversation on racism in football is even happening.

[Lancasterclaret]

Top post lostingame

[Grumps]

One guy said he knows of waves of burnley fans who are racist. Another guy called bullshit. so the guy then posts video evidence. Then the guy who incorrectly called bullshit applied another condition that wasn't originally claimed by the guy making the claim.

That's called moving the goalposts, and it's not the firs time in this thread that it's happened.

Also, i have noticed that you in particular, across multiple threads, seem to be especially perturbed that this entire conversation on racism in football is even happening.

Not perturbed at all, all I have asked for in this instance is some evidence to back up the allegation, just as you would in any other case. Surely you're not suggesting that we accept every complaint of racism without question? If we did then Jay rod would have been in deep trouble. From my personal experience and that of many others the allegation of monkey chants coming from block 1 or 2 of the Bob lord stand is somewhat surprising and requires further investigation before being accepted as 100% true.

[Imploding Turtle]

Not perturbed at all, all I have asked for in this instance is some evidence to back up the allegation, just as you would in any other case. Surely you're not suggesting that we accept every complaint of racism without question? If we did then Jay rod would have been in deep trouble. From my personal experience and that of many others the allegation of monkey chants coming from block 1 or 2 of the Bob lord stand is somewhat surprising and requires further investigation before being accepted as 100% true.

You're not asking for evidence that Henry received abuse. And if you were it'd be an unreasonable demand.

No, i don't think we should believe every allegation of racism without question, however where evidence isn't available i think it's more than reasonable to expect that the people claiming to be the victims of racial abuse be believed, unless you have a specific reason not to believe someone.

Karl Henry says he received racial abuse. Why shouldn't I believe him?

[Grumps]

You're not asking for evidence that Henry received abuse. And if you were it'd be an unreasonable demand.

No, i don't think we should believe every allegation of racism without question, however where evidence isn't available i think it's more than reasonable to expect that the people claiming to be the victims of racial abuse be believed, unless you have a specific reason not to believe someone.

Karl Henry says he received racial abuse. Why shouldn't I believe him?

Perhaps because history and evidence shows that this type of behaviour doesn't happen in that Area, we are not talking one person shouting at him, his allegation is that he received monkey chants, which tend to involve gestures as well as verbal abuse. The type of people who behave like that are out and out racists who find it difficult to hide their feelings, so if they are regulars in that stand I would suggest their racist behaviour would have come to the fore at some stage in the past 18 years... To my knowledge it hasn't

[Cleveleys_claret]

A decent interview from him a few years ago. Says he was at Stoke also not QPR so apologies IT for arguing a point I was clearly wrong on.

One of the reasons i should stop listening to the clickbait soundbites talksport put on twitter

https://www.theredcard.org/news/2011/09 ... -wanderers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lostinthegame]

I don't mean to pick nits, but that's not our club's badge. (I don't think....I get the connotation, I'm not an idiot, but isnt that the borough coat of arms rather than the clubs?)

It was our club's badge in the 80s and 90s but the current one came in around 2009/10, partly as a revival of the same one we had in the 50s and 60s to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 59/60 First Division title.

[Imploding Turtle]

Perhaps because history and evidence shows that this type of behaviour doesn't happen in that Area, we are not talking one person shouting at him, his allegation is that he received monkey chants, which tend to involve gestures as well as verbal abuse. The type of people who behave like that are out and out racists who find it difficult to hide their feelings, so if they are regulars in that stand I would suggest their racist behaviour would have come to the fore at some stage in the past 18 years... To my knowledge it hasn't

It's amazing, it truly is. Here you are claiming that there's no evidence that Henry received monkey chants, yet you're confident enough to say that beyond the age of 18 they haven't, to your knowledge, continued being racist.

You seem to think that Burnley fans are above being racist, yet clearly that's not true. 17 years ago we had riots because to many people from Burnley were racist. The word "paki" is one i hear all the time. We're one of the few places that elected a BNP councillors. In back-to-back general elections (2001 & 2005) the BNP candidate in our constituency received over 10% of the vote. There weren't many places in the country where they got more than 10% once let along twice. Relative to the rest of the country we are a town that has a problem with racism. So the idea that any of the club's fans have are above making monkey chants is just ridiculous.

[Grumps]

It's amazing, it truly is. Here you are claiming that there's no evidence that Henry received monkey chants, yet you're confident enough to say that beyond the age of 18 they haven't, to your knowledge, continued being racist.

You seem to think that Burnley fans are above being racist, yet clearly that's not true. 17 years ago we had riots because to many people from Burnley were racist. The word "paki" is one i hear all the time. We're one of the few places that elected a BNP councillors. In back-to-back general elections (2001 & 2005) the BNP candidate in our constituency received over 10% of the vote. There weren't many places in the country where they got more than 10% once let along twice. Relative to the rest of the country we are a town that has a problem with racism. So the idea that any of the club's fans have are above making monkey chants is just ridiculous.

I don't get your comment about the age of 18
I have never, ever said burnley fans are above being racist, or Burnley in general, I am talking about 1 specific incident that this thread relates to
I suggest you read the posts before going off on one of you misinformed rants

[Imploding Turtle]

I don't get your comment about the age of 18
I have never, ever said burnley fans are above being racist, or Burnley in general, I am talking about 1 specific incident that this thread relates to
I suggest you read the posts before going off on one of you misinformed rants

I misread a part of your post. ignore that part.

[lostinthegame]

The word "paki" is one i hear all the time.

I live in Clitheroe, but still often visit Burnley (not just for football), Accy and Blackburn.

I know many local people (mostly older and more working-class) who use "paki" insisting they don't mean any harm and it's simply short for "Pakistani", i.e. "Don't worry, we can still get some milk, the Paki shop's open on Sundays."

Given the Asians in East Lancs mostly came from Pakistan, such P-word users assert they wouldn't use it to describe Indians, Sri Lankans, Arabs etc. though that's because it _is_ used as a racial slur towards anyone else with brown skin + Eastern heritage. I've known Pakistanis round here even use it about themselves, though not sure of the irony levels. But sadly my half-Iranian mate was bullied at school with the "p" word, and it's beyond reasonable doubt some people in/around Burnley use it because they have prejudices about/problems with this ethnic group. A New Zealand comedian about 10 years ago in Clitheroe said something like "Why do you Brits say the P word is racist? Us [and Australians] say 'we're playing the Pakis today [at cricket]' and it's fine. But the difference is, you lot precede that word with "f**king."" !!! :-S

I would never use that word even innocently though, especially with a stranger not from near Burnley - would give people carte blanche to negatively stereotype me, my football club and my local community. Especially in 2018, where people won't accept compromises for being offensive/not offensive, and the negative stereotypes people not from round here have of the club discussed in this thread. I know some will say the former is "snowflake culture" but it's more that I just don't have the time to explain and justify everything I say to everyone I meet.

The fact a fair number of our fans would still feel at home at a Charlottesville tiki-torch rally is very sad and very ironic. It's sadly ironic financially, given Burnley FC in 2018 and us gatecrashing the PL/Europe and is almost the equivalent of a left-wing, socialist*, populist politician winning an election that nobody expected but got there on treating everyone fairly, respecting the man/fan in the street and belief that they can compete on such an unequal playing field (as the haves and have nots in football have increased, so have also done the rich and poor in society). * Not that I am 100% backing these political beliefs. Just making a helpful comparison. And of course, it's better than being a bloody neo-Nazi.

Or a small business rooted in the local community that survived against an onslaught of gigantic Tescos and ASDAs. It's sadly ironic culturally, given people love and celebrate the club's matchday atmosphere and values as a positive alternative to how football (and most other British culture) has been sanitised since the Premier League's invention - "loyalty", "passion", "taking 5000 to Stoke on a cold rainy night" versus "gloryhunters", "prawn sandwiches", "half and half scarves" etc. And often, our club gets the balance right between the relative social inclusivity of 2018 and the raw, honest atmosphere and terrace humour of the 1960s/70s.

But a minority of Burnley fans still seem to think having an "old school atmosphere" gives them the green light to call people n***ers, wogs, pakis, etc. and say all gay people should be castrated, transgender people are "mentally ill and need to be wiped out" (I've seen the latter two on Facebook , plus profiles saying the Finsbury Park terror attack was justified, and Darren Osborne 'should have killed more' )

Now is the time to report, expose, and one by one, root out these scumbags.

[lostinthegame]

Apologies if my last post was a bit tl;dr. I was just a bit too high on football and pop cultural passion.

More of that, only half the length and with a million times more coherence, coming soon....

[evensteadiereddie]

I'll be surprised if the club continue to tolerate the Burnley EDL "Division" - - using even the outdated club badge to further their wanky little cause.

[ClaretMoffitt]

It's amazing, it truly is. Here you are claiming that there's no evidence that Henry received monkey chants, yet you're confident enough to say that beyond the age of 18 they haven't, to your knowledge, continued being racist.

You seem to think that Burnley fans are above being racist, yet clearly that's not true. 17 years ago we had riots because to many people from Burnley were racist. The word "paki" is one i hear all the time. We're one of the few places that elected a BNP councillors. In back-to-back general elections (2001 & 2005) the BNP candidate in our constituency received over 10% of the vote. There weren't many places in the country where they got more than 10% once let along twice. Relative to the rest of the country we are a town that has a problem with racism. So the idea that any of the club's fans have are above making monkey chants is just ridiculous.

That was purely a result of the riots and once the tensions simmered down so did the votes. People who wouldn't usually vote but felt aggrieved went out and voted in mass for the BNP, being from the stoops area, I remember it well, despite being only young

[TVC15]

That was purely a result of the riots and once the tensions simmered down so did the votes. People who wouldn't usually vote but felt aggrieved went out and voted in mass for the BNP, being from the stoops area, I remember it well, despite being only young

Maybe because you were very young you ain’t got a clue what you are talking about. Or maybe it’s just because you believe what you want to believe.
Either way you are wrong.
How do you explain the BNP vote and presence in areas like Cliviger for a number of years after the riots ? Did lots of people from Stoops move there ?!!!

[Lancasterclaret]

Didn't Worsthorne vote for them as well, or is my memory playing tricks?

[ClaretMoffitt]

Maybe because you were very young you ain’t got a clue what you are talking about. Or maybe it’s just because you believe what you want to believe.
Either way you are wrong.
How do you explain the BNP vote and presence in areas like Cliviger for a number of years after the riots ? Did lots of people from Stoops move there ?!!!

Couldn't tell you as nobody from posh places like cliviger operated within my social circles so their motives are unknown to me.

[TVC15]

Couldn't tell you as nobody from posh places like cliviger operated within my social circles so their motives are unknown to me.

It was a rhetorical question to the daft ignorant post you made.
Oh and btw you don’t have to go to a dinner party with Cliviger folk to understand a bit about what took place in Burnley....just educate yourself a little. Maybe read a paper or even a book if you can manage it.

[ClaretMoffitt]

It was a rhetorical question to the daft ignorant post you made.
Oh and btw you don’t have to go to a dinner party with Cliviger folk to understand a bit about what took place in Burnley....just educate yourself a little. Maybe read a paper or even a book if you can manage it.

You seem upset.

Just touch the doll to show us all where the nasty post hurt you.

[TVC15]

You seem upset.

Just touch the doll to show us all where the nasty post hurt you.

Nah not me. I just find it funny how thick people like you are....it amuses me when I read some of the c-rap that you post.