Has this latest farce with the kick off times done irreparable damage to the FA Cup?

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Bob Lord, Sunday football & Cameras; I'll say no more!!!!

Tony I think the WBA match in January 1960 you refer to was away since I was at the home match v WBA that season in August/Sept 59. Jimmy Mac played the 2nd half on the wing with his arm in a sling.

Ridiculous decision by the FA is this. No doubt they'll be scratching their heads wondering why attendances are down. If we'd have drawn Barnsley away the 12.30 ko time would have probably been the difference between me attending and not bothering.

The fa cup is still magic.

That said our priority this season has to be 17th place. Shame. But is what it is

CleggHall wrote:Tony I think the WBA match in January 1960 you refer to was away since I was at the home match v WBA that season in August/Sept 59. Jimmy Mac played the 2nd half on the wing with his arm in a sling.

The Bournemouth game was Jan 61 (now corrected) and the West Brom game that followed was at home.

jrgbfc wrote:Ridiculous decision by the FA is this. No doubt they'll be scratching their heads wondering why attendances are down. If we'd have drawn Barnsley away the 12.30 ko time would have probably been the difference between me attending and not bothering.

It's incredible - have the FA finally decided it is now a nothing competition with no prestige so are just trying to make extra money out of it?

Started to slide in 1999 when Man U were allowed not to take part and there was the lucky loser. Same year the 3rd round was in December.

Look at the attendances now for league and cup - massive difference. Back in the early 70s we played Wolves at home in the cup and couldn't get on our beloved Longside for about 10k or more Wolves fans (actually annoying as it was, it was a fabulous sight, a sea of black and gold). The following week we played them again at home in the league and they had about 2k tops, probably less. That is, for me, the classic example of what the magic of the cup was. Sad to see what has happened to the old girl now.

houseboy wrote:Look at the attendances now for league and cup - massive difference. Back in the early 70s we played Wolves at home in the cup and couldn't get on our beloved Longside for about 10k or more Wolves fans (actually annoying as it was, it was a fabulous sight, a sea of black and gold). The following week we played them again at home in the league and they had about 2k tops, probably less. That is, for me, the classic example of what the magic of the cup was. Sad to see what has happened to the old girl now.

That’s how it was back then. The cup was massive then and attracted massive crowds. Now they have to reduce prices to get people on.

NL Claret wrote:Started to slide in 1999 when Man U were allowed not to take part and there was the lucky loser. Same year the 3rd round was in December.

Yes I remember that Man U nonsense NLC, I suspected then that it could've been the beginning of the slippery slope of things to come.

Is it just the 3rd round or all the way through? If it's for the whole thing they won't be a single 3pm ko from round 4 onwards.

The FA trying to justifying this decision by claiming the non-league clubs,and grassroots football would benefit,still don't understand why the games can't KO at 3 pm even with overseas TV rights,the one advantage for people attending the Barnsley match.if you're sharp you'll catch Accy's home game which ATM is scheduled for 3pm.

The whole magic of the FA Cup is being eroded,draws taking place before the previous round has finished,semi-finals being played at Wembley,replays going straight to penalties some of the most memorable encounters from years past were the ties that want 3/4 games to get a result,Arsenal/Sheffield Wednesday was one,Liverpool/Everton i think had a tie that lasted for weeks one year.

Talking long ties I think Burnley and Chelsea went 5 games before a result, also can't remember who won in the end.

It’s really a pity the FA Cup has deteriorated to more of a nuisance than the lofty competition it once was. However it still has its charms, such as the possibility of ‘little’ clubs beating ‘big’ clubs, Burnley vs Lincoln immediately comes to mind!

A few things came to mind when reading Tony’s evaluation of today’s version of the FA Cup.

(1) The statement “I can’t imagine, as we did then, sneaking old transistor radios into school on a Monday to listen to the lunchtime draw” brings back memories. I used to go to my Grandfather’s house for lunch on a Monday when my Mum was at work, he’d make me chips while listening to the cup draw on the wireless. He lived on Mitella St, classic long drop bog, newspaper bog paper, coal shed in the back yard type of property, all quite normal at the time.

(2) I was at the Wembley Cup Final to see Burnley lose 1-3 to Spurs, we travelled down by train, donning Burnley scarves, rosettes and rattles, with a pal and his Dad. Quite an experience to be among 100,000 footy fans. I hate to think what today’s H and S police would do about 100,000 standing people pushing and shoving for the best vantage point!

(3) Regarding our upcoming 3rd round fixture. Wouldn’t it be fun if Bardsley scored a last minute goal for Burnley to beat Barnsley? I’m sure ‘the beeb’ would get that massively wrong.

South West Claret. wrote:Talking long ties I think Burnley and Chelsea went 5 games before a result, also can't remember who won in the end.

That was season 1955/56 and Chelsea went through after four replays.

The first game on the Turf ended 1-1 with an attendance of 44,857.

Always thought we were robbed as the final two replays were at Highbury & White Hart Lane.

So when did the fans stop attending really, and what made them?

The first FA cup final I remember was 1997 with Chelsea and Boro and it did still feel like a big deal although I was only a kid. But as long as I can remember unless it was a big game against a top tier side then it always seemed like there would be less fans for the cup matches. So have they felt like they can move the matches now because the magic has already gone? I'm definitely not saying its right. I wish it was like people tell me it used to be. The link must be that the money in football has made probably all four divisions more important. Not to mention the Champions league.

Back in the day, there were far fewer season ticket holders, so people could choose whether to go on the cup tie or the league game at the same cost for each. Now, the league games are already paid for and the cup is an extra.

If the Friday night game is Tranny v Spurs it will suit Tranny. I can recall they always played on Friday nights in order to attract fans on the Wirral who would rather watch their more illustrious neighbours from across the Mersey on Saturdays. I think their fanzine was called "Friday Night Fever."

Still a competition we should be looking to do well in. The last 10 years or so Wigan have won it, and the likes of Villa, Stoke and Palace have all reached the final which shows it's still possible for a club like us. Just need a few of the big boys to start drawing each other!

houseboy wrote:Look at the attendances now for league and cup - massive difference. Back in the early 70s we played Wolves at home in the cup and couldn't get on our beloved Longside for about 10k or more Wolves fans (actually annoying as it was, it was a fabulous sight, a sea of black and gold). The following week we played them again at home in the league and they had about 2k tops, probably less. That is, for me, the classic example of what the magic of the cup was. Sad to see what has happened to the old girl now.

I was at those two matches. I'd estimate Wolves brought 4,000 for the cup [they only occupied the part of the Longside we usually took up], and for the league match the week after, there were only a few hundred. Burnley fans who'd got on the Longside early doors chanted Wanderers Wanderers! at the away fans as they scampered found the Bee Hole, delighted to have taken the 'home end' again. I can imagine you can work out what happened next.

CaptJohn wrote:If the Friday night game is Tranny v Spurs it will suit Tranny. I can recall they always played on Friday nights in order to attract fans on the Wirral who would rather watch their more illustrious neighbours from across the Mersey on Saturdays. I think their fanzine was called "Friday Night Fever."

Surely Tranmere aren’t shortened to Tranny, are they?

CT mentions that BFC get fifty grand from this scheme, will we not lose about fifty grand with the reduced crowd given its a half twelve kickoff?

Foulthrow wrote:CT mentions that BFC get fifty grand from this scheme, will we not lose about fifty grand with the reduced crowd given its a half twelve kickoff?

Is it 50k just for this game or for the entire competition? Just with it being quoted as a scheme.

I’m probably in a minority but I prefer the league cup far more. Night games under the lights on the turf against the big boys. Or away. Lovely.

The PL has destroyed the FA Cup. The need to stay there or the need to get there has stopped many PL/Championship clubs from fielding a proper team. All it takes is a pretty lucky draw like we had a couple of years back and a real thirst to go for it.

Quicknick wrote:I was at those two matches. I'd estimate Wolves brought 4,000 for the cup [they only occupied the part of the Longside we usually took up], and for the league match the week after, there were only a few hundred. Burnley fans who'd got on the Longside early doors chanted Wanderers Wanderers! at the away fans as they scampered found the Bee Hole, delighted to have taken the 'home end' again. I can imagine you can work out what happened next.

It was a bit 'chaotic' wasn't it. Not sure about the cup numbers at all but it was definitely in the thousands whereas as you rightly say it was a mere few hundred at the league match.
I seem to recall we won the cup tie 3-0 and lost the league game 1-3. I could be wrong but I seem to think that was about it. I sure as hell miss the Longside and would have it back in a heartbeat. People go on about improved facilities at grounds but the day they knocked down the Longside was the day Turf Moor lost 50% or more of it's atmosphere. That massive expanse of concrete and steel echoed like crazy on a good day and made the ground a bit special. Even the games when we couldn't get on it for United fans or Liverpool fans etc. it was still fun trying to 'get it back'. Happy days.

FA Cup 3-0, O'Neil, Dobson, Casper.......19,397......Jan 3rd '70

League 1-3, Coates......13,193......Jan 10th '70.

Following on from that FA Cup 3rd Round win against Wolves we gave a classic performance at Stamford Bridge in the 4th Round. We were 0-2 down and looking out of it before two Martin Dobson goals earned us a replay at the Turf.

Foulthrow wrote:CT mentions that BFC get fifty grand from this scheme, will we not lose about fifty grand with the reduced crowd given its a half twelve kickoff?

That's the figure Hull quoted that they would be receiving for their game being moved for overseas broadcasting.

Royboyclaret wrote:FA Cup 3-0, O'Neil, Dobson, Casper.......19,397......Jan 3rd '70

League 1-3, Coates......13,193......Jan 10th '70.

1959/60 we played Blackburn two weeks running at home.

League, attendance: 32,331
Cup, attendance: 51,501

ClaretTony wrote:1959/60 we played Blackburn two weeks running at home.

League, attendance: 32,331
Cup, attendance: 51,501

Remarkably that Cup game against Blackburn is still clear in the memory, we were leading 3-0 with very little time left before they got a disputed penalty and eventually brought the score back to 3-3. We even lost the replay at Ewood.

Royboyclaret wrote:Remarkably that Cup game against Blackburn is still clear in the memory, we were leading 3-0 with very little time left before they got a disputed penalty and eventually brought the score back to 3-3. We even lost the replay at Ewood.

I was at that Rovers cup game, stood to the left of the goal at Bee Hole end. Wasn’t it Elder who gave away the disputed penalty? A bizarre incident, he misplayed the ball and it ran up his leg and hit his arm if memory serves! Most certainly no intent!

It was indeed Alex Elder, an absolute freak penalty at the Bee Hole end.

Anyway, they went on to lose the Final at Wembley that year whilst we won the First Division Championship.

Royboyclaret wrote:It was indeed Alex Elder, an absolute freak penalty at the Bee Hole end.

Anyway, they went on to lose the Final at Wembley that year whilst we won the First Division Championship.

It was before my time but my dad told me we were walking it, that they'd given up, when the referee gave that ridiculous handball with a quarter of an hour left. Apparently the replay was our worst performance of the season although we held on at 0-0 until extra time.

What a competition the FA Cup was back then. There was a real buzz of excitement with every round. Hard to believe it is even the same competition now with reduced prices to get people in, games moved willy nilly, teams playing less than full strength teams. I still get that buzz when the draw is made but there isn't that excitement at the games now.

Royboyclaret wrote:It was indeed Alex Elder, an absolute freak penalty at the Bee Hole end.

Anyway, they went on to lose the Final at Wembley that year whilst we won the First Division Championship.

Didn't Dave Whelan break his leg in that Rovers final?

Now you're bringing back some great memories. The replay v Bradford City, we scraped a draw at Valley Parade and 52,000 or so turned up on the Tuesday. Bob Lord thought it would be a good idea to put up the admission price without telling anybody. The tie v Everton in 62 another 50,000 or so and the scousers climbing up the floodlights and sitting on the longside roof. I remember going to both the semi-finals at Villa Park in 61 & 62 and standing on the exact same spot at the top of the Holt End. Also the journey back from Bramhall Lane when some fans thought it was hillarious to keep pulling the emergency cord, I've no idea what time we did eventually get home.

Foulthrow wrote:Surely Tranmere aren’t shortened to Tranny, are they?

They should be from now on. Everywhere.

Royboyclaret wrote:Following on from that FA Cup 3rd Round win against Wolves we gave a classic performance at Stamford Bridge in the 4th Round. We were 0-2 down and looking out of it before two Martin Dobson goals earned us a replay at the Turf.

Oh yes I remember that one RBC I was there and got back to watch it on MoT, Ralphy Coates made the goals.

Royboyclaret wrote:Following on from that FA Cup 3rd Round win against Wolves we gave a classic performance at Stamford Bridge in the 4th Round. We were 0-2 down and looking out of it before two Martin Dobson goals earned us a replay at the Turf.

Yes I went to.that at Chelsea as a young kid. A kid came up to us after the game in the street produced a hammer from under his jacket and said 'Do you want some bovver'. Some adult disarmed him and he went away in tears
I think we lost the replay to a fabulous goal. Someone will know.

Stayingup wrote:Yes I went to.that at Chelsea as a young kid. A kid came up to us after the game in the street produced a hammer from under his jacket and said 'Do you want some bovver'. Some adult disarmed him and he went away in tears
I think we lost the replay to a fabulous goal. Someone will know.

Aye, we lost the replay 1-3 after extra-time (1-1 after 90 minutes).

Ralphy scored our goal and was that the game when Peter Osgood scored a wonder goal to win it for Chelsea ?

Stayingup wrote:Yes I went to.that at Chelsea as a young kid. A kid came up to us after the game in the street produced a hammer from under his jacket and said 'Do you want some bovver'. Some adult disarmed him and he went away in tears
I think we lost the replay to a fabulous goal. Someone will know.

Turf moor packed to the rafters for the replay gutted that we lost was it 1..2

Royboyclaret wrote:Aye, we lost the replay 1-3 after extra-time (1-1 after 90 minutes).

Ralphy scored our goal and was that the game when Peter Osgood scored a wonder goal to win it for Chelsea ?

Chelsea kicked Ralph Coates out of the game. He'd put us one up then Harris,McCreadie, Hutchinson all took turns at assaulting Ralph. They had some good players but some dirty sods as well so the final between them and Leeds was very fitting,especially the replay at Old Trafford where the quality of fouls reached a new low.
I think the Peter Osgood goal you refer to was scored a few seasons before in a league game we lost 1-2.

I totally agree with the sentiments expressed in Tony Scholes's article on the FA Cup. Others may have already posted possible solutions to the devalued trophy. Firstly winners of the FA Cup could be allocated one of the Champions League places being taken by the Premier League. The practice of playing semi-finals at Wembley should cease - there are enough big grounds in the North and in London to play these elsewhere. A radical and possibly impractical solution would be that all Premier League clubs are drawn away to Football League opposition in Rounds 3 and 4.
Having said all that it would be wonderful if did get at least as far as the semis this year!

Stayingup wrote: I think we lost the replay to a fabulous goal. Someone will know.

Lost it 3-1 after extra time to a set of thugs - Ralph Coates scored a superb goal that night