Smart Motorway
Smart Motorway
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46553654" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Can we stop wasting money on these now . My first reaction to smart motorway work was to think they must be building the infastructure for driverless electric vehicles in 50 years time. Not the confusing 40mph , 60mph, 50mph , 60mph , 40mph and so on ridiculous changes of speed limit clearly doing nothing.
Whilst clearly providing a death trap to broken down vehicles.
Stop all work spend on NHS and road repairs.
Can we stop wasting money on these now . My first reaction to smart motorway work was to think they must be building the infastructure for driverless electric vehicles in 50 years time. Not the confusing 40mph , 60mph, 50mph , 60mph , 40mph and so on ridiculous changes of speed limit clearly doing nothing.
Whilst clearly providing a death trap to broken down vehicles.
Stop all work spend on NHS and road repairs.
These 2 users liked this post: Pimlico_Claret burnleybassman
Re: Smart Motorway
Tend to agree. Use the Sinister Island stretch to Prestwich each day and wonder what’s been achieved here.
This user liked this post: bf2k
-
- Posts: 6968
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:25 pm
- Been Liked: 1489 times
- Has Liked: 1848 times
Re: Smart Motorway
They need scapping off.We use the M42 on the way back home and often its traffic is light yet the Highways agency drop the speed to 50mph showing fictitious signs about non existent animals,debris or workforce in the road to justify the resultant chaos
Most drivers can manage speed to suit the traffic.They dont need nannying.
The work on the M6 near Knutsford is a disgrace.Finished months ago yet still restricted
Most drivers can manage speed to suit the traffic.They dont need nannying.
The work on the M6 near Knutsford is a disgrace.Finished months ago yet still restricted
Re: Smart Motorway
They will only become "smart" when drivers choose the correct lane to drive in or to actually use the hard shoulder when the signs tell you to. A lot of drivers will drive in lane 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 regardless of overtaking which means lane 1 has virtually no traffic thus making it a dual carriageway. Some drivers would probably do the whole of their motorway journey in the middle lane believing they shouldn't be in the slow or fast lane, which don't actually exist.mikeS wrote:Tend to agree. Use the Sinister Island stretch to Prestwich each day and wonder what’s been achieved here.
These 2 users liked this post: FactualFrank lesxdp
-
- Posts: 10321
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
- Been Liked: 3340 times
- Has Liked: 1959 times
Re: Smart Motorway
Educating people which lane to be in would be a start.
So many plod along in the middle lane forcing overtaking motorists to filter into one lane instead of two which backs it all up.
So many plod along in the middle lane forcing overtaking motorists to filter into one lane instead of two which backs it all up.
These 2 users liked this post: FactualFrank lesxdp
Re: Smart Motorway
I like the smart motorways and I think they work well once the years of roadworks and average speed cameras are cleared. Places like Sinster Island is never to be be fixed by smart motorways, the sheer volume of traffic using that area will mean that regardless of the system in place there will always be a build up of traffic
Re: Smart Motorway
Rather than doing the smart thing they should do savvy motorways i.e. When they start the work on the hard shoulder they should make it into an extra lane, add another one and build a hard shoulder that can easily become a 5th or sixth lane into the future
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:08 am
- Been Liked: 614 times
- Has Liked: 680 times
Re: Smart Motorway
Proved to be dangerous with no hard shoulder, and drivers constantly looking up and down as speed limits change every few hundred yards. Cash cows, nothing more.
Re: Smart Motorway
Rubbish, the facts in the article demonstrates a very limited (if any) increase in deaths/injuries from the lack of hard shoulder and if you are unable to look at an information board you quite frankly shouldn’t be on the road. I would suggest that if you are needing to ‘look up’ at the board you are leaving it far too late to take potentially vital information in and your driving is therefore dangerousPimlico_Claret wrote:Proved to be dangerous with no hard shoulder, and drivers constantly looking up and down as speed limits change every few hundred yards. Cash cows, nothing more.
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:08 am
- Been Liked: 614 times
- Has Liked: 680 times
Re: Smart Motorway
I wasn't referring to the information boards, I was referring to the speed limit signs, and consequently your speedo. You can't possibly argue that changing the speed limit every few hundred yards over the course of few miles doesn't add extra distraction of driving on already overcrowded motorways.MRG wrote:Rubbish, the facts in the article demonstrates a very limited (if any) increase in deaths/injuries from the lack of hard shoulder and if you are unable to look at an information board you quite frankly shouldn’t be on the road. I would suggest that if you are needing to ‘look up’ at the board you are leaving it far too late to take potentially vital information in and your driving is therefore dangerous
One limit, 70,we all know and the vast majority of us will adapt our driving habits to the conditions around, knowing there is a safety net, hard shoulder, should your car suddenly develop a problem.
These 2 users liked this post: Damo houseboy
-
- Posts: 888
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:22 pm
- Been Liked: 225 times
- Has Liked: 7 times
- Location: standing like a clock on the shelf
Re: Smart Motorway
The M1 south of Wakefield and M6 south of Stafford both seem to work well.The M42 and M60 seems like a waste of money and the M25 would need 6 lanes to keep the traffic moving.
-
- Posts: 9325
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
- Been Liked: 4105 times
- Has Liked: 6588 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Smart Motorway
The average speed cameras will remain I think. If they were temporary, they would be powered by generators. They are hard wired I believe (mate works on the motorways) so are here to stay.MRG wrote:I like the smart motorways and I think they work well once the years of roadworks and average speed cameras are cleared. Places like Sinster Island is never to be be fixed by smart motorways, the sheer volume of traffic using that area will mean that regardless of the system in place there will always be a build up of traffic
Re: Smart Motorway
I still can’t agree. The speed signs are next to the information signs as well as boards high give very important information such as lane closures, information that could be the difference between life and death.Pimlico_Claret wrote:I wasn't referring to the information boards, I was referring to the speed limit signs, and consequently your speedo. You can't possibly argue that changing the speed limit every few hundred yards over the course of few miles doesn't add extra distraction of driving on already overcrowded motorways.
One limit, 70,we all know and the vast majority of us will adapt our driving habits to the conditions around, knowing there is a safety net, hard shoulder, should your car suddenly develop a problem.
In relation to changing speeds, studies show that on ‘normal motorways’ cars drive at ‘70 mph’ up to the car in front then break which causes miles of breaking at times. The idea of the smart motorway is to stop this so in theory everybody should drive at 50mph instead if 70 then 20 then 70 as is now the case. The amount of speed changes are much less on a smart motorway
-
- Posts: 10321
- Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:36 pm
- Been Liked: 3340 times
- Has Liked: 1959 times
Re: Smart Motorway
This Sinister Island sounds interesting.
Re: Smart Motorway
Again that isn’t correct. The stretch of the M60 towards the Trafford Cebtre is a good example of an area where the average speed cameras were located during the roadworks but have now been removedbobinho wrote:The average speed cameras will remain I think. If they were temporary, they would be powered by generators. They are hard wired I believe (mate works on the motorways) so are here to stay.
This user liked this post: lesxdp
-
- Posts: 9325
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:48 pm
- Been Liked: 4105 times
- Has Liked: 6588 times
- Location: Burnley
Re: Smart Motorway
What about the stretches of the M1, M62, (insert name of motorway here) where they HAVEN’T been removed?
Re: Smart Motorway
As mentioned above a smart motorway won't fix simister island nor will it fix the problem where the M60 meets the M62 and M602. A lot of drivers haven't got a clue what lane to be in, the traffic joinging from Worsley generally tend to want to carry on the M60 therefore have to cross a couple of lanes and drivers leave it too late to get in the right lane. Almost every time I go that way I will see some clown driving over the chevrons to either join or leave the M60.
The standard of motorway driving is poor, joining M66 at Simister last week there was some idiot crossing the chevrons, straddling lanes and then doing 30mph in lane 1. I suppose when you have a mobile phone held to your ear, driving with due care and attention is difficult. Stuck on the M6 a few weeks back, crawling, I had keep using my mirror in case the car behind was going to drive in the back of me. The driver appeared to paying more attention to what was on the passenger seat. I dare say the hold up was causing him a few problems and he was working while he was driving.
The standard of motorway driving is poor, joining M66 at Simister last week there was some idiot crossing the chevrons, straddling lanes and then doing 30mph in lane 1. I suppose when you have a mobile phone held to your ear, driving with due care and attention is difficult. Stuck on the M6 a few weeks back, crawling, I had keep using my mirror in case the car behind was going to drive in the back of me. The driver appeared to paying more attention to what was on the passenger seat. I dare say the hold up was causing him a few problems and he was working while he was driving.
-
- Posts: 5001
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:00 pm
- Been Liked: 3435 times
- Has Liked: 2881 times
Re: Smart Motorway
Indeed. I wonder if it’s like Fantasy Island, Love Island, or Simister Island.Bordeauxclaret wrote:This Sinister Island sounds interesting.
Re: Smart Motorway
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussio ... ter-island" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Lord Beamish wrote:Indeed. I wonder if it’s like Fantasy Island, Love Island, or Simister Island.
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/light ... ural-g.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Smart Motorway
Defies the object doesn't it . A ten minute trip anywhere will tell you drivers are not smart.NL Claret wrote:They will only become "smart" when drivers choose the correct lane to drive in or to actually use the hard shoulder when the signs tell you to. A lot of drivers will drive in lane 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 regardless of overtaking which means lane 1 has virtually no traffic thus making it a dual carriageway. Some drivers would probably do the whole of their motorway journey in the middle lane believing they shouldn't be in the slow or fast lane, which don't actually exist.
Re: Smart Motorway
I like to think I am smart .... Shirt, Tie and a rather nice Jacket...Bfcboyo wrote:Defies the object doesn't it . A ten minute trip anywhere will tell you drivers are not smart.
OK teamed with Bermuda Shorts might seem odd but I think it looks good
Re: Smart Motorway
Whether you like it or not, in 50 years time 99% of vehicles will be fully autonomous. Actually it's more likely to be 30 years. There is going to be a nightmare transition period of about 20 years before we get to that stage and there will be lots of infrastructure changes like the smart motorway over the next 2 decades.My first reaction to smart motorway work was to think they must be building the infastructure for driverless electric vehicles in 50 years time
Whether smart motorways are the answer, who knows but it won't be the last inconvenience we face before we find the right model to be able us to have a fully autonomous, electric vehicle system. This is going to happen and we need to make sure we don't get left behind!
Re: Smart Motorway
What about traffic lights? I don’t think I have seen any improvement over a roundabout in any of the junctions where this change has been made. In fact at one set I know the traffic flows better at rush hour when the lights are broken.
This user liked this post: Im_not_Robbie_Blake
-
- Posts: 1868
- Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:33 pm
- Been Liked: 383 times
- Has Liked: 235 times
- Location: Skipton
Re: Smart Motorway
'Smart' traffic lights should be the answer. There are some, and the technology isn't mind-boggling and it needs applying to all traffic lights to maintain a flow.RMutt wrote:What about traffic lights? I don’t think I have seen any improvement over a roundabout in any of the junctions where this change has been made. In fact at one set I know the traffic flows better at rush hour when the lights are broken.
Re: Smart Motorway
I travel a lot on motorways around the north and Midlands. There are often speed restrictions for no apparent reason. Recently coming up the M1 around Seffield there was a speed restriction and the reason? To reduce pollution? Laughable.
But these are dangerous with constant speed changes 40, 50, 60, 40. Looking at the speedometer a lot can be dangerous.
But these are dangerous with constant speed changes 40, 50, 60, 40. Looking at the speedometer a lot can be dangerous.
Re: Smart Motorway
Yes but after you've looked up at the board you have to look at time speedometer. Dangerous. Fact is much if the money spent on ancilliary things - not the road itself - is wasted money. Too much furniture everywhere.MRG wrote:Rubbish, the facts in the article demonstrates a very limited (if any) increase in deaths/injuries from the lack of hard shoulder and if you are unable to look at an information board you quite frankly shouldn’t be on the road. I would suggest that if you are needing to ‘look up’ at the board you are leaving it far too late to take potentially vital information in and your driving is therefore dangerous
Re: Smart Motorway
Its not the first time I've had to dodge a sofa on the M6 (furniture) obviously come off someones trailer/roofrack....Stayingup wrote:Yes but after you've looked up at the board you have to look at time speedometer. Dangerous. Fact is much if the money spent on ancilliary things - not the road itself - is wasted money. Too much furniture everywhere.
-
- Posts: 4980
- Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:31 pm
- Been Liked: 2341 times
- Has Liked: 1041 times
- Location: Ightenhill,Burnley
Re: Smart Motorway
When upgrading these motorways, the average speed camera signs were interspersed with large signs featuring a young girl, with the caption " Please drive carefully, my Daddy works on this motorway ! " .... With the limit at 50, clear traffic, good weather and not a workman for miles, I've grimly muttered " Well, someone should ring your Mum because he's either up to no good or down the pub, because he's sure as hell not working here ! "
These 2 users liked this post: Bosscat Stayingup
-
- Posts: 4077
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:32 pm
- Been Liked: 1104 times
- Has Liked: 709 times
Re: Smart Motorway
Upgrading to smart motorways has cost billions, not only in the cost of motorways but the cost of lost business meetings because you can’t get there and the loss of investment in the UK because you can’t get from A-B. Some 65% of motorways have lanes closed off making our road system one of the worst in the world
If you break down on a smart motorway you are very highly likely to be hit by another vehicle which means extra lanes are going to have to be added or lanes removed
Altogether an almighty criminal waste of time, effort and money
If you break down on a smart motorway you are very highly likely to be hit by another vehicle which means extra lanes are going to have to be added or lanes removed
Altogether an almighty criminal waste of time, effort and money
Re: Smart Motorway
There are less accidents in the middle lane than any other , so I will continue to use this laneBordeauxclaret wrote:Educating people which lane to be in would be a start.
So many plod along in the middle lane forcing overtaking motorists to filter into one lane instead of two which backs it all up.
-
- Posts: 3484
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:50 pm
- Been Liked: 660 times
- Has Liked: 205 times
Re: Smart Motorway
I don’t really understand what a ‘smart’ motorway is. They spent years ‘upgrading’ the M3 and it’s just as congested as ever. I started to use the A3 instead when they started the work and I’m sticking to it from now on. Hardly any traffic to speak of, far more scenic and you get to go through the Hindhead Tunnel as well.
This user liked this post: J50
-
- Posts: 3095
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 pm
- Been Liked: 710 times
- Has Liked: 619 times
Re: Smart Motorway
Made a massive difference to the M62 round Leeds. And if you're driving and wonder why the speed has been dropped from 70 but there's no queues or anything, that's because it's working. Queuing theory demonstrates if you limit input to a system it clears quicker.
And anyone who can't easily keep an eye on the signs isn't looking far enough ahead and shouldn't be on a motorway
And anyone who can't easily keep an eye on the signs isn't looking far enough ahead and shouldn't be on a motorway
These 3 users liked this post: lesxdp Bosscat MRG
-
- Posts: 16885
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
- Been Liked: 6958 times
- Has Liked: 1483 times
- Location: Leeds
Re: Smart Motorway
Exactly. The smart motorway has definitely improved traffic float on the M62 between Leeds and Hudds. As you say, the people who are complaining that the speed limit has been reduced but can’t tell why obviously don’t get the point. The reduction in speed is a measure to keep the traffic moving.BabylonClaret wrote:Made a massive difference to the M62 round Leeds. And if you're driving and wonder why the speed has been dropped from 70 but there's no queues or anything, that's because it's working. Queuing theory demonstrates if you limit input to a system it clears quicker.
And anyone who can't easily keep an eye on the signs isn't looking far enough ahead and shouldn't be on a motorway
Re: Smart Motorway
Smart motorways reduce the old rubber banding effect... "people speed up to a queue then have slow right down and stop"... there by all the sheep following stop. Causing delays and tailbacks.....
With smart motorways traffic is slowed down but not stopping (well stopping as much ... in theory) there by speeding up traffic flow....
If run correctly they work well...
With smart motorways traffic is slowed down but not stopping (well stopping as much ... in theory) there by speeding up traffic flow....
If run correctly they work well...
Re: Smart Motorway
The average speed cameras have been removed on both the M62 and M6 once the work to upgrade to the smart motorway has been completed. If they didn’t remove them the smart motorway would be pointlessbobinho wrote:What about the stretches of the M1, M62, (insert name of motorway here) where they HAVEN’T been removed?
-
- Posts: 67869
- Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 3:07 pm
- Been Liked: 32528 times
- Has Liked: 5276 times
- Location: Burnley
- Contact:
Re: Smart Motorway
That's exactly the problemBordeauxclaret wrote:Educating people which lane to be in would be a start
Re: Smart Motorway
Come on. There are queues on the M62 round Leeds. Depends on the time and dayBabylonClaret wrote:Made a massive difference to the M62 round Leeds. And if you're driving and wonder why the speed has been dropped from 70 but there's no queues or anything, that's because it's working. Queuing theory demonstrates if you limit input to a system it clears quicker.
And anyone who can't easily keep an eye on the signs isn't looking far enough ahead and shouldn't be on a motorway
Re: Smart Motorway
Smart motorway gantries have cameras. That's another hazard if as happens someone slams their breaks on.
Re: Smart Motorway
Sixth lane? Just how many lanes does the UK need? The reality of the situation is that we are a nation obsessed by tin boxes with a wheel on each corner.mdd2 wrote:Rather than doing the smart thing they should do savvy motorways i.e. When they start the work on the hard shoulder they should make it into an extra lane, add another one and build a hard shoulder that can easily become a 5th or sixth lane into the future
Pavements and grasses areas are overcome by them as we haven't sufficient land on which to store them all.
Sadly we are a nation that has historically underfunded and under invested in public transport infrastructure.
The current Northern Rail fiasco is an example of that.
-
- Posts: 1430
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:55 pm
- Been Liked: 378 times
- Has Liked: 165 times
- Location: York
Re: Smart Motorway
I cover a lot of mileage across the M62 and other areas that have Smart Motorways -I do actually think they work and would be happier driving along at 40mph on the M62 rather than in stop start traffic.
Somewhere around the Leeds area last week, on the M62, I saw 3 lanes with 40mph and 1 with 50mph...
Somewhere around the Leeds area last week, on the M62, I saw 3 lanes with 40mph and 1 with 50mph...
This user liked this post: lesxdp
Re: Smart Motorway
Knutsford really is the limit!Woodleyclaret wrote:They need scapping off.We use the M42 on the way back home and often its traffic is light yet the Highways agency drop the speed to 50mph showing fictitious signs about non existent animals,debris or workforce in the road to justify the resultant chaos
Most drivers can manage speed to suit the traffic.They dont need nannying.
The work on the M6 near Knutsford is a disgrace.Finished months ago yet still restricted
Re: Smart Motorway
Does not help when the lunatics have the foot down racing around the roundabout . They set off 10 seconds before the lights are on green and don't give people a chance to safely get out. They are already honking the horn 40 yds away determined not to let people out.RMutt wrote:What about traffic lights? I don’t think I have seen any improvement over a roundabout in any of the junctions where this change has been made. In fact at one set I know the traffic flows better at rush hour when the lights are broken.
Useless useless bitter angry little road sheizens.
-
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 10:39 pm
- Been Liked: 333 times
- Has Liked: 211 times
Re: Smart Motorway
The M62 Smart motorway Eastbound, between Halifax and Leeds, not so "smart" today. There was a problem with the control system, which resulted in one lane being unnecessarily closed, causing long tailbacks, and a 30 minute delay to clear it. This wasn't just for an hour or so, but most of the day. Smart? Don't make me laugh. Only "smart" because the cameras are doing all the work, not plod.
-
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:40 pm
- Been Liked: 894 times
- Has Liked: 1172 times
- Location: Proudsville
Re: Smart Motorway
IanMcL wrote:Knutsford really is the limit!
Knutsford city limits?
This user liked this post: Bosscat
-
- Posts: 7066
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:43 pm
- Been Liked: 2240 times
- Has Liked: 1618 times
- Location: Baxenden
Re: Smart Motorway
I agree with this totally. Not so much the smart motorways as a problem but average speed cameras. I would like to see some stats on the numbers of accidents when these are in place because constantly checking your speed to make sure you haven't 'drifted over the limit' for a few hundred yards I find downright dangerous. Even Grane Road between Haslingden and Blackburn feels somehow more dangerous than it was before the introduction of these bloody things. I know there are idiots on the road but most drivers who have been driving more than 5 minutes know when to control speed and assess the dangers. Checking your speed all the time means less time spent on looking at the road - it only takes a second to have an accident.Pimlico_Claret wrote:I wasn't referring to the information boards, I was referring to the speed limit signs, and consequently your speedo. You can't possibly argue that changing the speed limit every few hundred yards over the course of few miles doesn't add extra distraction of driving on already overcrowded motorways.
One limit, 70,we all know and the vast majority of us will adapt our driving habits to the conditions around, knowing there is a safety net, hard shoulder, should your car suddenly develop a problem.
This user liked this post: Pimlico_Claret
Re: Smart Motorway
I was there this morning. It was stop start for miles.Sutton-Claret wrote:I cover a lot of mileage across the M62 and other areas that have Smart Motorways -I do actually think they work and would be happier driving along at 40mph on the M62 rather than in stop start traffic.
Somewhere around the Leeds area last week, on the M62, I saw 3 lanes with 40mph and 1 with 50mph...