Stephen Ward

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ksrclaret
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Can’t disagree with that and those are the two key changes to the team
All in good time. Let's have changes in the technical area first please. Lord have mercy on us all.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by JohnMac » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Spijed wrote:He was regarded as one of Leeds best players and none of their supporters thought any different, likewise Wood.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
I have several long standing ST Leeds mates and to a man they can't believe how Taylor and Wood have regressed at Burnley.

Yes it's a different level but I have to agree that both have gone backwards over the past 15 months.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Murger » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:09 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Can’t disagree with that and those are the two key changes to the team
Wouldn't say changing Taylor for a fit Ward would change our fortunes.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:11 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Can’t disagree with that and those are the two key changes to the team
Those 2 key changes represent at least 80% of the mess we are in. I would say nearer 90

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:11 pm

Murger wrote:Wouldn't say changing Taylor for a fit Ward would change our fortunes.
You watch on the radio then

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:12 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Those 2 key changes represent at least 80% of the mess we are in. I would say nearer 90
Do you sit with the other 2 blind mice on the Turf, then?

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Murger » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:12 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Those 2 key changes represent at least 80% of the mess we are in. I would say nearer 90
Wow. You do come out with some tripe.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:21 pm

Ward and Heaton back ASAP for me and then see what the performances are like.
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:24 pm

Wait a sec, how many stages of play did we **** up after Taylor gave away the corner?

Three or ,maybe four?

Thats not his fault

If you think a 34 year old Stephen Ward whose been shocking when he's played this season is going to make the difference, then you've not been watching us.

About nine players today were operating at a level which would see us get tonked in the premier league. You cannot pick one out and blame him.

A lot of the senior pros need to have a good long look at themselves after this season if we are being honest.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:26 pm

This thread is hilarious. Stephen Ward is not the answer!

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:26 pm

Anyone who seriously thinks that the cause of our downfall this season is the lack of Stephen Ward, or the inclusion of Charlie Taylor, really is just thick. Sorry but I can't actually think of any other word for it.

Hart you can just about make the case for, granted, but even then you're going to want to look to the dugout first.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:27 pm

I know, imagine looking at that after they have knocked in their fourth and going

"What we need here is Stephen Ward"

**** sake

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:27 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Wait a sec, how many stages of play did we **** up after Taylor gave away the corner?

Three or ,maybe four?

Thats not his fault

If you think a 34 year old Stephen Ward whose been shocking when he's played this season is going to make the difference, then you've not been watching us.

About nine players today were operating at a level which would see us get tonked in the premier league. You cannot pick one out and blame him.

A lot of the senior pros need to have a good long look at themselves after this season if we are being honest.
It’s about opinions. Obviously yours is right as always.

We have won 4 prem games with Taylor in the team and he ain’t good enough.

Root cause analysis on the first goal. Don’t give a fcn corner away in the first minute and while you’re at it learn to cross the ball

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:29 pm

No one is saying Taylor is good enough, we are just saying ward for Taylor would make **** all difference

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:30 pm

Really. I think a few think Taylor is good enough.

Ward (50 international caps) for Taylor (4 prem wins) would improve the team. Anyone not seeing that must be thick....

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:31 pm

You did watch Ward before he got injured right? He’s not the player he was.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by 1fatclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:32 pm

Spijed wrote:But how can you tell if any player from the Championship is guaranteed to make the step-up?

Same for every club in the PL who sign players from the level below.
Isn't that what we pay scouts for?

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:32 pm

JohnMac wrote:I have several long standing ST Leeds mates and to a man they can't believe how Taylor and Wood have regressed at Burnley.

Yes it's a different level but I have to agree that both have gone backwards over the past 15 months.
I wouldn't say Taylor has regressed, he's just not stepped up, in my opinion, to Premier League football. Wood is a different case altogether in that he was really good for us last season and is anything but this season.
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:33 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:You did watch Ward before he got injured right? He’s not the player he was.
He has been injured all season and was trying to play through it. We had to take him out of the side and he then had the surgery. Outstanding last season when he was fit. Whether he can get back to that or not, time will tell, but he's been one hell of a good signing for us.
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:34 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Really. I think a few think Taylor is good enough.

Ward (50 international caps) for Taylor (4 prem wins) would improve the team. Anyone not seeing that must be thick....
Hart has more international caps than Pope, but you're saying Pope would improve the team.

As I said previously, thick, or you have an agenda. (probably both)

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:34 pm

Wood has definitely gone backwards.

Taylor looked far better at Leeds than he’s showed here.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:35 pm

ClaretTony wrote:He has been injured all season and was trying to play through it. We had to take him out of the side and he then had the surgery. Outstanding last season when he was fit. Whether he can get back to that or not, time will tell, but he's been one hell of a good signing for us.
No ones arguing with that, he was superb last season. This season not so much and I just can’t see our results being any different if he was playing. Left back is the least of our worries.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:36 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Hart has more international caps than Pope, but you're saying Pope would improve the team.

As I said previously, thick, or you have an agenda. (probably both)
Pope is international class....has played for England.

Are you really that stupid?

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:36 pm

It’s about opinions. Obviously yours is right as always.
No it isn't always right.

But how many phases of play where there between Taylor giving away the corner and the goal.

I'm 100% sure you can see what I'm getting at, so stop the crap and just say "fair enough, you might expect anyone of the other players to do slightly more to stop it"

It devalues your complaints about Taylor massively to be fair.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Pope is international class....has played for England.

Are you really that stupid?
He owned you and you came up with that response. Genius.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:37 pm

And i'm a massive Stephen Ward fan, but like all players, they have a shelf life and though I'd like to see him back, he's not the reason we've been shocking this season.
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:You did watch Ward before he got injured right? He’s not the player he was.
GWW, You obviously have not followed the club very closely lately or you would have worked out that Ward was clearly playing with the spoken about injury.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ksrclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:38 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Pope is international class....has played for England.

Are you really that stupid?
Hart has played 75 times for England though, Pope has played once, maybe twice?

Try again

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Granny WeatherWax » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:39 pm

South West Claret. wrote:GWW, You obviously have not followed the club very closely lately or you would have worked out that Ward was clearly playing with the spoken about injury.
Missed 2 games mate since we kicked off in Aberdeen, but you’re probably right.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by JohnMac » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:41 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I wouldn't say Taylor has regressed, he's just not stepped up, in my opinion, to Premier League football. Wood is a different case altogether in that he was really good for us last season and is anything but this season.
Fair comment on Taylor.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by jedi_master » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:41 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I know, imagine looking at that after they have knocked in their fourth and going

"What we need here is Stephen Ward"

**** sake
I think that’s very harsh, Lancaster, if that is aimed at posts such as my own.

If you seriously think I have sat at Turf Moor (or any of the games this season, in which Taylor has played) and thought/suggested that, then you’re wrong.

It is not that Ward would have made a difference, particularly, it is (in my opinion, which I am entitled to and wouldn’t chastise you for yours in such a superior manner) that I feel the changes of Ward/Pope for Taylor/Hart are the only noticeable alterations to a very successful back line, and the resulting collapse in goals conceded is so huge that you have to look at what has changed.

Well, on paper (as we do not see the dressing rooms inner workings, where there may be other factors), the only change is Taylor and Hart. Fans have a right to look at that and think that alteration to our back line is quite possibly (if not likely) a large cause for the ridiculous displays we are seeing this season. That doesn’t change the fact that Mee, Tarkowski, Lowton etc have all regressed in performance levels too - which may well hint at something greater - but when we have chopped and changed everything but them two, is it not time to at least consider changes?

I’d play Bardsley there, actually. He played there multiple times at Sunderland and if nothing else is a limited but aggressive snarler, something this team is sorely lacking is aggression and I think Bardsley had positively influenced the team until he was dropped for no clear reason today.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Belial » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:43 pm

Taylor has been one of the issues this season but there are plenty of others. He gets some excellent tackles in but in this league much more is expected. Ward was providing an additional attacking threat whereas Taylor either loses the ball trying to take his man on, crosses to no one, or turns backwards because he can't use his right leg. It's difficult to say whether bringing Ward in now would make a big difference, but losing him from last season has definitely been a big loss
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:43 pm

Not aimed at you Jedi

Aimed at Hibs.

Ward is the best left back I've ever seen at this club, but he's been poor this season and is currently injured. Taylor has done okay, certainly not going to win any awards but compared to the **** shows we've seen from others he shouldn't be getting this level of abuse.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by jedi_master » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not aimed at you Jedi

Aimed at Hibs.

Ward is the best left back I've ever seen at this club, but he's been poor this season and is currently injured. Taylor has done okay, certainly not going to win any awards but compared to the **** shows we've seen from others he shouldn't be getting this level of abuse.
Fair enough, apologies for coming at you then!

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:47 pm

No bother

Only just calmed down enough to post on here and regretting it already!
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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by claretfern » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:50 pm

I heard a rumour Ward was off to Glasgow Rangers in the January window.....

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:58 pm

Granny WeatherWax wrote:No ones arguing with that, he was superb last season. This season not so much and I just can’t see our results being any different if he was playing. Left back is the least of our worries.
Yes, superb last season and injured this. Played a few games, not very well either, before having to drop out and go for surgery.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:07 pm

We don’t need to call in Bergarac to work our that we are shipping goals right now and there is 1 player different in that back four.

We are now playing with 5 in the back to cover for the missing Ward.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:08 pm

Back on point though, where is Stephen Ward?

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by BFC88 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:13 pm

To be fair to Taylor i think hes improved but he is not on the same level as Ward.

Ward is a huge miss as is Heaton/Pope who are far superior to Hart and actually command their box.

I'm getting sick of a lack of updates with our injured players, we need to seriously invest in Jan as at the moment its a **** poor showing. We are nailed on for relegation with the players currently available

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:15 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:Not aimed at you Jedi

Aimed at Hibs.

Ward is the best left back I've ever seen at this club, but he's been poor this season and is currently injured. Taylor has done okay, certainly not going to win any awards but compared to the **** shows we've seen from others he shouldn't be getting this level of abuse.
So A fit Ward is better than Taylor in a nutshell. I agree.

Bit of a shame people mention Ward’s form this season when clearly not 100%.

Also more than a bit embarrassing the ones who have written him off based on age when he has an injury he may recover from.

Taylor is a liability that has affected the rest of the team and particularly the defence all season

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by quoonbeatz » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:59 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:Best man really? The bloke is an absolute waste of space in a premier league team.

The last thing you do is give a corner away in the first minute. That is the reason we are one down immediately. Absolutely clueless.
i know its pointless discussing this with you, given your ridiculous agenda, but the goal didn't even come from the corner.

he took a heavy touch which was obviously an error but we defended the corner. its the ball watching, static centre halves and the keeper who are the reason we're one nil down as they don't defend the subsequent cross, not taylor.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:07 pm

If we don’t concede the corner we don’t concede the goal.

Why on earth would i have an agenda? I have a consistent opinion that one of our players ain’t good enough. I’ve said it all season.

Taylor creates panic in the defence by:

Giving needless corners away
Not keeping the correct spaces when defending
Not moving into space at the right times
Not crossing at the right times
Never crossing accurately

The rest of the team are affected by this. Ben has been all season.

To a extent the keeper and his not coming for crosses is also an issue but the main problems in the team stem from Taylor and his lack of defensive nouse.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by quoonbeatz » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:11 pm

:lol: thats some impressive straw clutching.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Blackrod » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Taylor isn't a PL footballer in my opinion. To think the Ward and another would change this dross round though you are wrong. There are problems all over the pitch. Other players are better than this but are not delivering under Dyche's team set up, tactics and instructions.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by SpringHillClaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:11 pm

Given his injuries of late I can’t quite believe he is the answer to all our prayers. Equally we only have one replacement and Theron lies the challenge at the moment.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Lancasterclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:15 pm

I'm still loving the idea that the fault of us being utterly bobbins for all but a few of the games this season is because of Charlie Taylor.

EDIT - "loving" is not the right word, its impossible to love what we are doing at the moment, but its bizarre just how far people are willing to go to blame certain players.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:34 pm

Lancasterclaret wrote:I'm still loving the idea that the fault of us being utterly bobbins for all but a few of the games this season is because of Charlie Taylor.

EDIT - "loving" is not the right word, its impossible to love what we are doing at the moment, but its bizarre just how far people are willing to go to blame certain players.
For me it isn’t a blame, it’s about identifying what’s changed. We no have to have an extra player in the defence and we are conceding more goals. The only difference now is that Ward isn’t in there.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Top Claret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:45 pm

Taylor was our best player today. Taylor is a modern wing back who if used properly and not asked to play like a 60s full back would be one of our best attacking options, and a major asset
Today and Liverpool was the 1st time only due to Dyche changing the system, that Taylor has had the opportunity to show the positive side of his game, which is an attacking wing back.
Can't believe some people having a go at him for giving the corner away for the 1st goal, when the subsequent defending from the corner was dreadful.

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Re: Stephen Ward

Post by Hibsclaret » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:48 pm

We saw the positive side to his game....

How many chances did he create? What was his crossing like?

The last time he created anything from a cross was against Aberdeen.

What is this positive side to his game? A few last ditch tackles cos he’s out of position in the first place.

He may be a modern full back for Championship standards, certainly not top level

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