Your team for West Ham

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ClaretTony
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:07 pm

I don't think he'll bring Heaton back to be honest although I'd like to see him back in goal. I reckon he'll sadly be gone next month so I don't see him suddenly getting back in the team.

MRG
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by MRG » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:07 pm

I like Hendrick a lot. I think that given a run of games in the centre of the park he could really start to make a positive difference
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Long Time Lurker
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Long Time Lurker » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:35 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I was absolutely astonished when Bardsley was left out against Everton. I like Lowton but he's been dreadful this season. He was left out after his performance at Palace which was as bad as anything I've seen from him and he came back against Everton and was just as bad.
Based on his performances of late I'm astonished we paid less than £1m for Bardsley and managed to ship out Darikwa in the same window for a little over £1m. It was the same window that saw us bring in Lennon for £1.7m.

People always like to highlight the money we spent on Walters (which was only poor value because of unlucky injuries) and Wells who might bring in more than the £5m we paid if he continues to impress at QPR and subsequently moves on.

Wages aside our recent transfers have represented pretty good value. I think the jury is still out on some of the newer incomings.

All told we have done very well for very little in some cases. Its just a shame we made a bit of a hash of things in the last window and didn't do more business. Hopefully, we will do more in the next window, even if it is just bringing in younger players to improve the development squad. Standing still is stepping backwards in the current environment.

Burt
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Burt » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:47 pm

Hart

Bardsley Tarks Gibson Mee

JBG Westwood Cork Hendrick

Vydra

Vokes

I think Taylor is one of the key problems this year, Ben has played there before and must be an upgrade. Give Vydra a chance in the 10 role with our best hold up striker
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ksrclaret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 pm

Am I really seeing people suggesting Ben Mee moving to left back?

Heavens above
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Dy1geo
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Dy1geo » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:18 pm

Hart

Bardsley Tarks Gibson Taylor

JBG Westwood Cork Hendrick McNeill

Barnes

HiroshimaClaret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:29 pm

Pope
Lowton, Tarkowski, Gibson , Taylor
Bardsley
Hendrick, Westwood, Brady
Gudmundsson Barnes

Let`s give an opposition team something to think about!


p.s. Given up on seeing Vydra, Defour or McNeil.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by JTClaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:30 pm

I'd love to see Vydra and Vokes - For the Vokes/Gray, Vokes/Ings type partnership going.
That does mean dropping Barnes... which I don't like.
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FactualFrank
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:32 pm

DomBFC1882 wrote:Hart
Taylor, tarks, mee, bards
Brady, Hendrick, cork, lowts
Barnes, vydra
Bardsley has been playing well, but doesn't deserve being shifted over to left back. Lowton left wing could be funny though!

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by MDWat » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:47 pm

Image

ClaretTony
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by ClaretTony » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:48 pm

Long Time Lurker wrote:Based on his performances of late I'm astonished we paid less than £1m for Bardsley and managed to ship out Darikwa in the same window for a little over £1m. It was the same window that saw us bring in Lennon for £1.7m.

People always like to highlight the money we spent on Walters (which was only poor value because of unlucky injuries) and Wells who might bring in more than the £5m we paid if he continues to impress at QPR and subsequently moves on.

Wages aside our recent transfers have represented pretty good value. I think the jury is still out on some of the newer incomings.

All told we have done very well for very little in some cases. Its just a shame we made a bit of a hash of things in the last window and didn't do more business. Hopefully, we will do more in the next window, even if it is just bringing in younger players to improve the development squad. Standing still is stepping backwards in the current environment.
The Lennon signing was not in the same window as Bardsley and Darikwa moved on. He came in the following January.

I totally agree with you on the windows, it was the last one where we clearly got it horribly wrong. I can't be proven right or wrong, but my view is that Walters would have been a good signing had he not suffered the injuries he did, and that, of course, has continued this year with his season ending injury at Ipswich. I still can't quite get my head round the Wells signing but we might get our money back on him. Likewise I've not understood the Vydra signing either. To think he was one of only two outfield signings in the last window and he can't get a game. Gibson is another who has been unfortunate but I think we will go on to see him as a decent signing.

gc14
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by gc14 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:14 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Am I really seeing people suggesting Ben Mee moving to left back?

Heavens above
I'd give it a try ksr to be honest, Better tackler, header and positional sense than Taylor, also a threat in
both boxes ( without using his hands obviously ! ) had a nightmare season like a few others, the shift may
well do him good .. Show him he isn't an automatic choice in the middle, there is still a good player in there
we need him back to his best UTC

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 pm

gc14 wrote:I'd give it a try ksr to be honest, Better tackler, header and positional sense than Taylor, also a threat in
both boxes ( without using his hands obviously ! ) had a nightmare season like a few others, the shift may
well do him good .. Show him he isn't an automatic choice in the middle, there is still a good player in there
we need him back to his best UTC
Fair enough, but I don’t think Taylor has been anywhere like as bad as suggested by a few people on here. Whereas Ben Mee has been an utter disgrace this season and deserves dropping entirely.
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Top Claret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Top Claret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:34 pm

Taylor is not the best defender but he certainly is our most dangerous player going forward. Dyche as only started using him to his strengths since he changed the formation. I would go 352
Hart
Tarks, Gibson, Long
Bardsley, Cork, Westwood, O'Neil, Taylor
Wood, Vydra

Dropping Barnes and Hendrick because of there lack of effort in trying to show the channels and themselves for Taylor,when he was looking to feed them in.

Our present personal are not good enough to play a 442. JBG offers little out wide due to his lack of pace

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:40 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Am I really seeing people suggesting Ben Mee moving to left back?
Heavens above
I can only assume they didn't see him at left back and him moving centre before the 23 game unbeaten run. They can't have.

Newcastleclaret93
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:47 pm

Moving Ben Mee to left back is a strange one.

Might be wrong but isn’t Koiki a left back? Supposed to be a stand out player for the youths maybe worth giving him a go if people are so uncertain with Taylor. However I might add I rate Taylor

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by snapcrackleandpop » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:40 pm

I wouldn’t have Mee anywhere near the squad on Sunday or Vokes come to that.
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Goobs
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Goobs » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:53 pm

Assuming those doubtful aren't fit and that Pope isn't ready I would go for:

Heaton
Tarks Long Gibson
Bardsley Hendrick Westwood Taylor
JBG
Barnes Vokes

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by TsarBomba » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:Moving Ben Mee to left back is a strange one.

Might be wrong but isn’t Koiki a left back? Supposed to be a stand out player for the youths maybe worth giving him a go if people are so uncertain with Taylor. However I might add I rate Taylor
I’m all for blooding youth as and when, but chucking in a completely unproven youngster in a game of this magnitude, against the likes of Felipe Anderson, is a recipe for disaster.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:12 pm

No I agree he shouldn’t be put in to the team.
I just think this would be a better option than moving Mee to left back

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:29 pm

We've got to get back to being Burnley - not only in terms of mentality and stubborn defensive organisation, which we began to see against Spurs and Arsenal in particular, but also in terms of the coherent manner in which we try and attack teams. We're at our best when we build our attacks either through quick direct transitions, or through effective use of the channels to exploit full backs and bring centre backs out of their comfort zone. I've not really seen us set up to do that for a while, and we definitely didn't do that playing 5-3-2 versus Everton with Vokes (who has little pace) and Barnes (who is mobile but in no way quick) as the two attackers.

There are various ways that Dyche can do that, including reverting to 4-5-1 with the midfield shape that was indeed so efffective last season. However, that was effective in large part because Defour was at his best and capable of making our approach play more incisive and accurate, and also partly because Wood was playing well (certainly in the autumn) and gave us a mobile target man option who could also run the channels effectively. Unless both players have had remarkable transformations in fitness and form, I'm not really sure 4-5-1 is an option.

The other way is to revert to a 4-4-2 system. Assuming that as the official site suggests neither Brady nor Defour will be back, that would probably look like this:

----------------Heaton
Bardsley Tarkowski Mee Taylor
JBG Cork Westwood Hendrick
--------------Vydra
-------------Barnes

Different tunes you could play on this team - you could play Wood instead of Vydra, but we bought in Vydra to play as this second striker who can run the channels, and given that is what we're currently lacking and given Wood's lack of confidence, it's high time we gave him another crack in a system which suits him. Hendrick really deserves a central berth, but he showed a couple of times in the first fifteen minutes of the second half on Boxing Day that he's capable of carrying the ball on the flank and picking a pass or a cross, and generally imitating the role Arfield played for us so effectively.

Heaton for Hart is a long-running argument, and it may well be that the ship has sailed, but from everything I've seen Heaton at his best is just a better keeper than Hart and I can't quite understand why that isn't the overriding factor.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:31 pm

TsarBomba wrote:I’m all for blooding youth as and when, but chucking in a completely unproven youngster in a game of this magnitude, against the likes of Felipe Anderson, is a recipe for disaster.
Completely agree and on Wednesday's evidence, its a bit early to be giving McNeill the responsibility of starting the games too. Nowhere near ready for the physical and defensive demands of Premier League football - which is in no way a criticism.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:36 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:Moving Ben Mee to left back is a strange one.

Might be wrong but isn’t Koiki a left back? Supposed to be a stand out player for the youths maybe worth giving him a go if people are so uncertain with Taylor. However I might add I rate Taylor
I'd keep Taylor in because he gives an attacking option down that flank from full back and apart from giving away one corner (which we ought to have dealt with) was otherwise sounder than anyone else against Everton, but I don't think the option of Mee or Gibson at left back is totally ridiculous, if only to give us an extra presence at set plays in both boxes.

Mee has never let us down in that position - we were sound enough defensively in the Premier League season he played there, and he played there throughout the season we went up as runners up with a points total which usually wins promotion, and when he was shifted to centre back in the Championship season (which was more about Ward's extra attacking threat, and the fact Duff's legs had gone, than anything particularly wrong with Mee's performances) we were about fifth - so hardly disastrous. when he shifted to centre back to accommodate done OK there before at this level. Gibson's also done it a bit and is by all accounts competent in that position, and his distribution is OK.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:41 pm

Heaton has probably already mentally checked out and is planning his departure in January. Not sure throwing him in now is the answer. Plus if the reports are true about him and Dyche having a big bust up I just can't see it.

ksrclaret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by ksrclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:42 pm

claretspice wrote: ----------------Heaton
Bardsley Tarkowski Mee Taylor
JBG Cork Westwood Hendrick
--------------Vydra
-------------Barnes.
Why on earth would you have Mee in ahead of Gibson?

Mee has been utterly abject so far this season and deserves dropping. Gibson came in and was the pick of the defenders, and scored a goal. I can't understand it unless you're basing it on seasons gone by?

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:16 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Why on earth would you have Mee in ahead of Gibson?

Mee has been utterly abject so far this season and deserves dropping. Gibson came in and was the pick of the defenders, and scored a goal. I can't understand it unless you're basing it on seasons gone by?
Well, Mee was part of a back line that performed very well against Liverpool, Spurs and Arsenal. Apart from the penalty against Everton (which I thought was soft), I didn't think Mee did too much wrong, and I thought Gibson might just as easily have been penalised for shirt pulling from the same corner - and I also thought Gibson should have done far better for the first goal having seen it back (he's the defender who can see Mina and the other attacker coming through unmarked, and he doesn't do anywhere near enough to prevent the free header).

Gibson generally didn't do badly, but he wasn't perfect and I don't understand the particular criticism of Mee's performance. I thought both Tarks and Mee were placed in a very difficult position by a system which didn't especially suit either of them, whilst Gibson was the only one who was playing in his preferred position.
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Hibsclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:40 pm

claretspice wrote:I'd keep Taylor in because he gives an attacking option down that flank from full back and apart from giving away one corner (which we ought to have dealt with) was otherwise sounder than anyone else against Everton, but I don't think the option of Mee or Gibson at left back is totally ridiculous, if only to give us an extra presence at set plays in both boxes.

Mee has never let us down in that position - we were sound enough defensively in the Premier League season he played there, and he played there throughout the season we went up as runners up with a points total which usually wins promotion, and when he was shifted to centre back in the Championship season (which was more about Ward's extra attacking threat, and the fact Duff's legs had gone, than anything particularly wrong with Mee's performances) we were about fifth - so hardly disastrous. when he shifted to centre back to accommodate done OK there before at this level. Gibson's also done it a bit and is by all accounts competent in that position, and his distribution is OK.

This fabled attacking option down the left does not present any chances of scoring a goal. I can think of Aberdeen home goal and a chance at West Ham that Wood put over off the top of my head. This attacking option is the footballing equivalent of Halley’s comet

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:57 pm

Hibsclaret wrote:This fabled attacking option down the left does not present any chances of scoring a goal. I can think of Aberdeen home goal and a chance at West Ham that Wood put over off the top of my head. This attacking option is the footballing equivalent of Halley’s comet
Bit harsh I think. I can think of other chances he's created, and whilst at times his quality has been a bit hit and miss, I don't think anyone would argue he's not a better crosser of the ball than Mee or Gibson.

CFS
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by CFS » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:16 pm

Heaton
Lowton Tarks Gibson Mee
Cork Hendrick McNeil
Jbg Barnes Vydra

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by boatshed bill » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:17 pm

I've had a quick look at the squad, I reckon this 11 is the least likely to get any stick (based on posters' comments etc.)

Popey, fit or not, it doesn't matter

Bardsley, last year's villain, this year's talisman
Long, these days can do little wrong
Gibson, done nothing wrong yet
Koiki, yet to make an appearance, so faultless

JBG, he's been pretty decent
Defour, injured or not he's class
Hendrick, another likely villain to hero
McNeil, give youth a chance

Vydra, the less he plays the better he gets
Agyei, fresh, and the other target men are donkeys!

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:25 pm

ksrclaret wrote:Why on earth would you have Mee in ahead of Gibson?

Mee has been utterly abject so far this season and deserves dropping. Gibson came in and was the pick of the defenders, and scored a goal. I can't understand it unless you're basing it on seasons gone by?
I agree. In a 4-4-2 Gibson ahead of Mee at the moment is a no-brainer. That's one of the easier decisions.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Hibsclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:35 pm

claretspice wrote:Bit harsh I think. I can think of other chances he's created, and whilst at times his quality has been a bit hit and miss, I don't think anyone would argue he's not a better crosser of the ball than Mee or Gibson.
I would agree with that re Gibson and Mee. However, a premier league attacking option needs to be able to find the target better than the 1 in 10 at best we get from Taylor

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Sgt. Pepper » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:46 pm

Pope

Heaton Hart

Lowton Bardsley Long Gibson Tarkowsi Mee Taylor

Hendrick(s)

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Quickenthetempo » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:57 pm

You think our defence played well against Arenal Spice? Long was at fault for the 1st and 3rd and Mee was too slow getting out to make a block for the 2nd.

Mee is just too slow now for us. I thought playing 3 CHS would help this but there always seems one of them wanders out of position at any one time.
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:37 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:You think our defence played well against Arenal Spice? Long was at fault for the 1st and 3rd and Mee was too slow getting out to make a block for the 2nd.

Mee is just too slow now for us. I thought playing 3 CHS would help this but there always seems one of them wanders out of position at any one time.
I didn't think Mee was at all to blame for the second goal at Arsenal - if anyone should have stopped it, it was Tarks - but overall we restricted Arsenal to about 4 decent chances in the game, two of which came from quick counters when we were on the front foot. Hart made on save of note, after about 2 minutes. So yes, I thought the defence played well overall, and to pick holes in particular goals doesn't seem to me a particularly fair way to judge - Arsenal are a very good attacking side, and any goal can be pulled apart and blame allocated.

I don't think Mee's pace is a particular issue for us, and I don't think he's been an especially bad performer for us this season. Plus, I'm not sure that constantly chopping and changing the heart of the defence is going to help us get out of this mess. Tarks and Mee is an established, proven partnership that has had great success at this level, and in my opinion we should reunite them as a two and trust them to rediscover their best form.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:45 pm

claretspice wrote:I didn't think Mee was at all to blame for the second goal at Arsenal - if anyone should have stopped it, it was Tarks - but overall we restricted Arsenal to about 4 decent chances in the game, two of which came from quick counters when we were on the front foot. Hart made on save of note, after about 2 minutes. So yes, I thought the defence played well overall, and to pick holes in particular goals doesn't seem to me a particularly fair way to judge - Arsenal are a very good attacking side, and any goal can be pulled apart and blame allocated.

I don't think Mee's pace is a particular issue for us, and I don't think he's been an especially bad performer for us this season. Plus, I'm not sure that constantly chopping and changing the heart of the defence is going to help us get out of this mess. Tarks and Mee is an established, proven partnership that has had great success at this level, and in my opinion we should reunite them as a two and trust them to rediscover their best form.
Ben Mee has been given numerous chances this season to improve and failed miserably, maybe because he knows under Dyche he is guaranteed to play no matter what? If we're playing a flat back 4 Tarks and Gibson are our best centre halves IMO.
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by FactualFrank » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:50 pm

jrgbfc wrote:If we're playing a flat back 4 Tarks and Gibson are our best centre halves IMO.
Most definitely. I think Mee losing his place won't do him any harm at all.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by TVC15 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:51 pm

Mee has had an awful season for us.
He’s had 2 or 3 decent games recently and I thought he was back finding his form only to be shocking again against Arsenal and Everton.
Re the Arsenal game Tarks & Long saved Mee’s blushes on at least 3 times.
I think Mee was very lucky to not lose his place for the Everton game and Kevin Long was very unlucky.
Mee’s poor form this year is one of the biggest reasons for our position in the league.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Woodleyclaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:52 pm

Heaton
Bardsley Long Gibson Taylor
MacNeil Tarkowski Hendrick JBG
Barnes Vydra
Subs
Koiki.Cork.Hart.Vokes.Mee

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by claretspice » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:53 pm

jrgbfc wrote:Ben Mee has been given numerous chances this season to improve and failed miserably, maybe because he knows under Dyche he is guaranteed to play no matter what? If we're playing a flat back 4 Tarks and Gibson are our best centre halves IMO.
Each to their own, but I don't think Mee has been that bad, and nor do I see performances from him which suggest he's arrogant enough to believe he's undroppable - and nor have I seem anything from Gibson in his European performances or on Wednesday that suggests he's a better player than Mee.

I don't think there were too many complaints about our centre halves performances against Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs. But as I say, everyone sees it differently, which is fair enough.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by jrgbfc » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:02 pm

claretspice wrote:Each to their own, but I don't think Mee has been that bad, and nor do I see performances from him which suggest he's arrogant enough to believe he's undroppable - and nor have I seem anything from Gibson in his European performances or on Wednesday that suggests he's a better player than Mee.

I don't think there were too many complaints about our centre halves performances against Liverpool, Arsenal or Spurs. But as I say, everyone sees it differently, which is fair enough.
To be fair I'm mainly going off what I saw from Gibson at Boro, where he always impressed me. For me he is more mobile, uses the ball far better and I think a spell out of the team might do Ben Mee good.

dougcollins
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by dougcollins » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:58 pm

Ben Mee was inept at full back when he was one, comedy gold sticking him in there now (as some have suggested).

Hedontplayforyou
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:14 pm

Jensen
Jordan
Carlisle
Caldwell
Duff
Elliot
Bikey
McCann
Eagles
Blake (him I would have)
Fletcher

HiroshimaClaret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote:You might want to rethink your right-back for two reasons. 1) Lowton has been horrendous recently 2) he's suspended
No problem - the powers that be won`t recognise him from last season :(

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by tiger76 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:49 pm

Heaton
Bardsley Tarks Gibson Taylor
JBG Westwood Hendrick McNeil
Barnes Vydra

We need to have a go at teams and take a chance now,wins are essential.
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South West Claret.
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by South West Claret. » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:15 am

Heaton for Hart and Bardsley for Lowts, I want to see JBG on at some point as well.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by PictoPirate » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:03 am

Heaton

Bardsley Tarky Gibson Taylor

Cork

Hendrick Westwood

JBG Barnes

Vokes

HiroshimaClaret
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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:12 am

Sad to say this but for the first time in a long time, I honesty don`t think it matters who plays. We are going to lose. I have lost all confidence in Dyche and his methods . Deep breath.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by South West Claret. » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:16 am

HiroshimaClaret wrote:Sad to say this but for the first time in a long time, I honesty don`t think it matters who plays. We are going to lose. I have lost all confidence in Dyche and his methods . Deep breath.
Of come on now HC...man up as they say.

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Re: Your team for West Ham

Post by HiroshimaClaret » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:25 am

South West Claret. wrote:Of come on now HC...man up as they say.
Just being honest, mate. Nowt to do with `manning up`. I have zero confidence.

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