What is the actual problem?

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MDWat
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What is the actual problem?

Postby MDWat » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:12 pm

There's a lot of stuff knocking around at the moment as to why we're in such a rut. From 'things have gone stale' to 'the manager has lost the players' but what is the actual problem? I suppose we're never going to actually know either:

a) whether there is a true problem or not and;
b) what that problem actually is

but, as we like to do so well, we can speculate.

Transfer window(s)
It's been a while since everyone was in agreement that we've had a genuinely positive transfer window. The longer this season goes on, the more it does feel like a wasted opportunity in the summer, when we were arguably at the strongest point the club has been in since the 60s. We had European football (well, qualifiers...) to try and entice players into the club. Had we done our business early and whilst easier said than done, other clubs around us do it with some regularity, this would have allowed us to go stronger in the qualifying games due to more depth in the squad. We've gone from the strongest point we could possibly be to being in a position where we're going to have to either offer more money to convince people to join us, which isn't the Burnley way, or shop in the division below again to players who might not believe their side is going up. Slim pickings/players that aren't good enough. Alternatively, we need to go abroad. It's probably too soon for Rigg to have an influence in this window on players from abroad and I worry about this window too. Ultimately, this feels like one of the biggest problems. We've stood still for too long, admiring our own position and it has come back to bite us on the arse, big time.

Dyche's new contract
We've not been anything like ourselves since Leicester at home last season. We had a nice run after Dyche signed his new contract in January last season but since the Leicester game we've gone downhill. There can't be many clubs where the manager is the top paid person. I don't disagree with this, to be honest - the most important person in your business probably should be paid the most generally speaking, but football is a different business. Agents are stupid and I'm sure they all talk to each other. Dyche will have the same agent as one of our players I'm sure and I'd question whether this has had any impact on the playing squad. It might not and you could say if it has, then we've got some of the wrong types at the club, but the timings seem a little coincidental to just rubbish the suggestion.

Things have gone stale - The West Brom/Stoke effect.
Has the division just got too big for us? There are club investing at all levels, all over the place. Wolves have an owner with bottomless cash, Fulham spent £100m in the summer. The only two sides you can really compare us to are Huddersfield and Cardiff and there's probably a pretty strong chance that the three of us will be dropping in the summer. Fulham will invest again, Southampton's squad is better than all the previously named ones. Only Newcastle could really drop into contention and they've got a superb manager. Again, it feels like we're admiring our own position and think this is as good as it gets. That mindset really bothers me - you can always strive for me. Yes, it takes investment but we're hardly short of cash. Relatively speaking, we've barely spent anything over the course of the last 3 windows. The players were pushed and eked out every last bit of ability to help us superbly finish 7th last season. Do they believe it's as good as it gets?

All in all, it's worrying. More worrying for me is the apparent mindset that this is as good as it gets and we should look to keep investing and keep pushing on. That's what all businesses should do and in such an emotive sport as football, you can't stand still or you're going backwards. Once you start going backwards, this 'community' club where everyone sticks together starts to fall apart at the seams. Fans become disgruntled and the atmosphere becomes negative. That's just how it goes in football, rightly or wrongly.

There's some balance to all the argument. I don't think it's a major issue to question the manager - he's got a lot of things wrong lately and he's not beyond question. He does, in my view, also have credit in the bank. He deserves our utmost respect for even getting us here. The reality is, if the club were going to 'twist' (and it'd be a big twist!) and replace Dyche, they'd have had to do it last night or today, to get someone in ahead of the transfer window. Even now, it's probably too late given the time it takes for them to go through the right processes to appoint the right person. On balance, I would stick with the manager, properly back him in January (we need a right back, centre mid, wide player and a striker, imo) and try to survive. If not, he's the right man to get us back up.

Regardless of your thoughts either way, back the manager and the players at the matches. It's imperative to any success.

Up The Clarets.
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WestMidsClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby WestMidsClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:13 pm

We're ****. :D

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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:16 pm

We missed the best chance we’ll ever have to strengthen with some real quality in the summer and now we are paying the price.
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Erasmus » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:24 pm

I am not sure that chance even existed in the summer. When trying to sign players of Premier League quality we will always be second or third choice for them, probably behind the bigger teams in the Championship like Villa or Derby. We might be able to afford the players but where they have ability they will also have several choices and I fear Burnley will be quite a way down that list. And I don't think being in the Europa League made any difference when players were making choices, it was more about how they perceived their career progression.

Gibson, I suspect, came in on the basis of the career progress made by Keane and Tarkowski while Vydra was desperate to get any crack at the Premier League. Apart from those two I doubt there were any really good quality Premier League players available to us, which is why we generally look for good ones from the Championship who make be able to make the step up but quite likely won't.
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Colburn_Claret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:24 pm

It's never one thing, but a combination of many.
We've all talked about those problems since the summer.
Europe
Recruitment
Injuries
Team tinkering
Players too old to push on yet again, many have hit the ceiling of their ability.
Massive lack of a leader on the pitch

And SD has made mistakes. I don't want to lose him he's still the best man for the job, but someone needs to point it out to him. Sometimes these things creep up on you so you don't notice it, like alcoholism, he needs a friend to wise him up.
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The Enclosure
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby The Enclosure » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:26 pm

Nick Popes injury.

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Conroy92
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Conroy92 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:29 pm

There is also the whole Jonathan Walters thing, Is it coincedence Ward hasn't featured since the leaked whatsapp messages surrounding Walters, Keane and Arter? Then Marney and Arfield have snipes when leaving and I cant imagine Heaton is a happy bunny either.

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SGr
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby SGr » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:30 pm

Entered the summer transfer window in Europe and behaved like a championship club

Allowed our squad age to remain at a league highest, signed just 3 players - one of which was basically an emergency due to an injury crisis. Abysmal window - can moan about the board not signing the players, but spending all summer chasing Jay Rodriguez was a terrible idea in the first place. Garlick should’ve told him no from the start.

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box_of_frogs
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby box_of_frogs » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:33 pm

We’re seemingly incapable of passing / running with the ball towards the opposition goal. Unless we lump it forwards.

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NL Claret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby NL Claret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:43 pm

The first paragraph from Erasmus pretty much nails it.

We have a limited pool of players that we can attract due to our budget so we have a squad of championship players that lack in quality. There's only so long you can over achieve before you get found out. I'd guess some of the Everton players are on 3x that of Burnley's highest paid player.
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Belgianclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Belgianclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:57 pm

More than one problem I'd say.
Our set up has been sussed out, simple as. Teams know how to exploit our lack of pace in midfield and defense, and have found a way to annul our direct approach.
From a technical and creative perspective, we are all dependent on Cork and Defour: Cork has lost form completely and Defour is still missing and not up to speed yet as before his injury. JBG cannot run the show on his own from his flank.
Brady has flattered occasionally, but has still not convinced. Hendrick is what he is, namely a valuable squad member and hard worker, but not a leader, playmaker or a number 10.
Apart from Barnes and Vokes with the occasional header, we do not have a recognized goal scorer like we used to have with Austin, Ings, Gray. Wood managed to cover the cracks last season, but he is falling desperately short this season.
Summer recruitment was a shambles to say the least and our European scouting network is non-existent.

Now, how to go forward:

1. Forget sacking Dyche, it just won't happen and he still has credit enough in the bank
2. The board, the recruitment team and its new head will need to achieve what we should have achieved in the summer, all be it in the most difficult and crazy transfer window: bring in a 20million pound striker (I'd still be willing to pay this amount for JayRod if we can convince him), a decent number 10 or CM playmaker
3. We definitely should not ditch the progress made last season on trying to play more expansive football. No use in crowding our own penalty area and looking for the long punt forward, you don't win games if you don't try to score.
4. Don't give up on checking this site and look forward to BC's next tips and transfer prospects :lol: :lol:
5. Keep your sense of humor and perspective, there's still more to life than football such as....euh....euh...I'll fetch me coat
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CombatClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby CombatClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:00 pm

Erasmus wrote:I am not sure that chance even existed in the summer. When trying to sign players of Premier League quality we will always be second or third choice for them, probably behind the bigger teams in the Championship like Villa or Derby. We might be able to afford the players but where they have ability they will also have several choices and I fear Burnley will be quite a way down that list. And I don't think being in the Europa League made any difference when players were making choices, it was more about how they perceived their career progression.

Gibson, I suspect, came in on the basis of the career progress made by Keane and Tarkowski while Vydra was desperate to get any crack at the Premier League. Apart from those two I doubt there were any really good quality Premier League players available to us, which is why we generally look for good ones from the Championship who make be able to make the step up but quite likely won't.


Cant like it twice so reposting.
I genuinely believe the options are far more limited that people imagine, it goes far beyond us deciding on a playing a writing a cheque for a signing fee.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_o ... ball_clubs

Just look at the wealth propping up the Premier League and most of the Championship. It requires players choosing us over a lot of more attractive prospects both in finances and lifestyle factors. The Europe (Europa qualifying rounds, not even televised) appeal is myth too.
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jrgbfc
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby jrgbfc » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:01 pm

NL Claret wrote:The first paragraph from Erasmus pretty much nails it.

We have a limited pool of players that we can attract due to our budget so we have a squad of championship players that lack in quality. There's only so long you can over achieve before you get found out. I'd guess some of the Everton players are on 3x that of Burnley's highest paid player.


But we have limited ourselves in the transfer market by refusing to sign from overseas. We are choosing to shop in a market where there isn't much choice and you have to pay over the odds for everything, it's bonkers.

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leightonjameslegend
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby leightonjameslegend » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:13 pm

Ultimately we are back in a relegation fight. Which considering the investment in the playing squad we should always be.
Last season was a miracle almost to top that of Leicester winning the league. An anomaly that will probably never happen again. Unlike this season everything went right. Players were in form, exceeding their abilities. Even injuries went our way if you consider Pope may have never got his chance if it were not for the injury to Heaton!
My biggest gripe is not the position we find ourselves in but the lack of team spirit, fight and endeavour. We are simply awful to watch and so out of form it’s frightening.
No one knows for sure what’s gone on but for me the team spirit went the minute the players who ran through brick walls to get into Europe were left out of the games. In retrospect we should’ve gone for it and enjoyed the experience fully. I believe we could’ve handled the extra games and the feel good factor might well have had us getting results in the league too.
We will never know but it feels like a wasted opportunity and for me when the rot set in.
As others have said, we will stick with Dyche and hope he can turn it around. New signings would be nice and if we are going down let’s do it with some fight and playing some decent football.
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alwaysaclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby alwaysaclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:14 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:We’re seemingly incapable of passing / running with the ball towards the opposition goal. Unless we lump it forwards.

This imo is simply because dyche's primary game plan is to defend and hope to feed and score off a long punt and scraps that come from it, we can not hope to win games with this tactic.

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Bin Ont Turf
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Bin Ont Turf » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:16 pm

One of the problems are that which ever system/formation we put out, we just don't have all the right players (for this league) for any of them.

4-4-2 - Centre midfield not athletic or technical enough. Forwards all a bit samey and no pace.
4-4-1-1 - No technical attacking midfielder/No10. Lone forward not mobile enough
5-3-2 - Right and left back not pacey or technical or skillful enough. Centre midfield not creative or mobile enough. Not enough movement or variation from the forwards.
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Devils_Advocate
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Devils_Advocate » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:19 pm

Negative fans. If we all just clapped happily and had endless amounts of blind faith there is not a cats chance in hell we would be in this precarious position

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Safron
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Safron » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:22 pm

Our main problem is we just arnt good enough which is down to dyche signings ,and tactics

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Firthy
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Firthy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:27 pm

Steve-Harpers-perm wrote:We missed the best chance we’ll ever have to strengthen with some real quality in the summer and now we are paying the price.


Spot on. I think we could have attracted some quality players after finishing 7th. It will be a lot harder to attract quality players in January with our current position.

I guess our wage structure is just too rigid to survive in the PL.

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summitclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby summitclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:35 pm

We can't afford to sack him and we won't be spending much if any this window. The only solution is to send him on gardening leave until june and get bfs in for 5 months.

The problem is that we should have finished 8th.

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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby BabylonClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:44 pm

leightonjameslegend wrote:Ultimately we are back in a relegation fight. Which considering the investment in the playing squad we should always be.
Last season was a miracle almost to top that of Leicester winning the league. An anomaly that will probably never happen again. Unlike this season everything went right. Players were in form, exceeding their abilities. Even injuries went our way if you consider Pope may have never got his chance if it were not for the injury to Heaton!
My biggest gripe is not the position we find ourselves in but the lack of team spirit, fight and endeavour. We are simply awful to watch and so out of form it’s frightening.
No one knows for sure what’s gone on but for me the team spirit went the minute the players who ran through brick walls to get into Europe were left out of the games. In retrospect we should’ve gone for it and enjoyed the experience fully. I believe we could’ve handled the extra games and the feel good factor might well have had us getting results in the league too.

We will never know but it feels like a wasted opportunity and for me when the rot set in.
As others have said, we will stick with Dyche and hope he can turn it around. New signings would be nice and if we are going down let’s do it with some fight and playing some decent football.

This. S9 much of what we are witnessing seems to be around mentality and confidence which has taken a big knock due to our half arsed start to the season

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boyyanno
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby boyyanno » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:44 pm

For me the problem is equally split between tactics and recruitment.

I don't see it mentioned that often but in our previous seasons we looked like we could run over most teams in the division. I think all the other teams became aware of the advantage that gave us and reacted accordingly. In a way we've been completely figured out and the manager has not changed the style to adress that, just the formation and the personal. Changing the personal I think has had a negative impact, but all these things are woven together.

The recruitment didn't help because we didn't sign anyone different enough to change how we play, although we did get Vydra but who knows what's happened there.

Either way the blame is at the door of Dyche. He has brought together this particular group and he is now failing to get the best out of them.

Some posters are saying well we're only 18th and we'd be happy with 17th, what planet are they living on. Can anyone honestly say that if we continue like this we will move upwards in the table?

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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:52 pm

Would have made no difference if we'd finished 8th.

Every year, more and more clubs in the championship have a bigger wage bill than we do.

Every year, more and more clubs in the championship spent a fortune to get into the premier league.

Every year, more and more don't get in.

We have been a bit unlucky with injuries (but that is counterbalanced by the knowledge that said players were coming back from big injuries so we should have been more pro-active) and we managed to keep hold of the vast majority of the squad that did so well last season but we haven't hit the heights of last season at all.

If you think about it, Barnes, Wood, Defour, Brady, Cork, JBG, Mee, Tarkowski, Lowton, Pope, Ward all had the seasons of their lives last year. Not one of them has come close to it this time around.

When you look at how poor the defence and midfield has been this season, its no wonder we are struggling as much as we are. And it has to be said that despite that, we are three points from safety and above two teams, both who invested heavily in the summer.

And we are an ageing squad, been together for a while, it does look like complacency might have set in and we needed a more drastic change in personnel than we managed in the last two windows.

Its going to be tough in the Jan window, but if we can bring in a couple of midfielders (one wide man, one centre) who different from what we have now we might still be ok, but we'd have to overall the squad a lot in the summer.

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claretspice
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby claretspice » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:57 pm

I don't think anyone would disagree that recruitment in the summer as the culmination of a number of transfer windows where our recruitment had rung alarm bells was a big factor. The squad is short across the midfield and Vydra appears to be a signing the manager doesn't want, so we're also short on creativity and pace up front. It's also possible team spirit is nowhere near as good as previously, but that's all a matter of speculation.

But the biggest single factor for me is confidence - not only amongst the players but also management, and not only in themselves but also the overall structure of the team.We have had some bad luck, injuries we masked last season have caught up with us, and we've had some bad results and got into a cycle of conceding the goals the team previously assumed we never would. With that individual confidence has dropped but we've also suffered from Dyche tinkering with the team in a way he never has before. Dyche was often accused of stubbornly refusing to change the team but the flip side of that was that the players in the team knew exactly where they stood and took heart in that. Now, the full backs no longer really know which winger will be in front of them from game to game - or indeed if we'll have any wingers on the pitch at all.

Our great strength has always been our belief in our methods and approach and the coherent unit that has given us. Now for the first time under Dyche the team is less than the sum of its parts and he no longer looks like a man who knows exactly what he wants his team to be. He needs to get back to believing in his plan A, and so do the players - and if he needs players on the first of January to make that work, he needs to get them sharpish.

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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby BabylonClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:01 pm

The biggest worry is that we look worse than in 14/15.

I think we look as bad as Sunderland in 16/17.

Its more than just little Burnley finally being found out. Id be happy with 17th. I wasnt expecting to be top half this season (although i think we shoild be aiming for that as a target) as survival is a decent season for us. But right now we dont look like we will survive.

Hopefully we can pull off a Leicester, Southampt9n, Swansea or Palace and resurrect the season.

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agreenwood
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby agreenwood » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:03 pm

claretspice wrote:I don't think anyone would disagree that recruitment in the summer as the culmination of a number of transfer windows where our recruitment had rung alarm bells was a big factor. The squad is short across the midfield and Vydra appears to be a signing the manager doesn't want, so we're also short on creativity and pace up front. It's also possible team spirit is nowhere near as good as previously, but that's all a matter of speculation.

But the biggest single factor for me is confidence - not only amongst the players but also management, and not only in themselves but also the overall structure of the team.We have had some bad luck, injuries we masked last season have caught up with us, and we've had some bad results and got into a cycle of conceding the goals the team previously assumed we never would. With that individual confidence has dropped but we've also suffered from Dyche tinkering with the team in a way he never has before. Dyche was often accused of stubbornly refusing to change the team but the flip side of that was that the players in the team knew exactly where they stood and took heart in that. Now, the full backs no longer really know which winger will be in front of them from game to game - or indeed if we'll have any wingers on the pitch at all.

Our great strength has always been our belief in our methods and approach and the coherent unit that has given us. Now for the first time under Dyche the team is less than the sum of its parts and he no longer looks like a man who knows exactly what he wants his team to be. He needs to get back to believing in his plan A, and so do the players - and if he needs players on the first of January to make that work, he needs to get them sharpish.


I think it’s absolutely nailed on that we’ll not do any very early business in January. We rarely do.

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TomtheClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby TomtheClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:23 pm

Conroy92 wrote:There is also the whole Jonathan Walters thing, Is it coincedence Ward hasn't featured since the leaked whatsapp messages surrounding Walters, Keane and Arter? Then Marney and Arfield have snipes when leaving and I cant imagine Heaton is a happy bunny either.

I heard the Walters rumour from a pal of mine who works for ipswich town. What was the arfield and marney sniper though?

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jrgbfc
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby jrgbfc » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:43 pm

And we are an ageing squad, been together for a while, it does look like complacency might have set in and we needed a more drastic change in personnel than we managed in the last two windows.

Its going to be tough in the Jan window, but if we can bring in a couple of midfielders (one wide man, one centre) who different from what we have now we might still be ok, but we'd have to overall the squad a lot in the summer.[/quote]

We've ended up with an ageing squad because Dyche insists on surrounding himself with experienced steady Eddie types like Westwood, who do exactly as they're told and give you 6/10 every week.
The way to go for a club like us is to be signing young lads who have been rejected by the big clubs and are hungry and desperate to prove a point, like when we got Trippier and Mee from City. Unfortunately that policy seemed to disappear with Eddie Howe.
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CombatClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby CombatClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:46 pm

agreenwood wrote:I think it’s absolutely nailed on that we’ll not do any very early business in January. We rarely do.


Why would a player/agent take an early offer from Burnley when everyone know we have the least money/wages? Or do you wait to see if you get other offers?

That's why we'll never do early deals.
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CoolClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby CoolClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:53 pm

Our patterns of play are tosh and they aren't changing.

Out wide, back, no movement up top, so back to the defence/goalkeeper for a speculative punt upfield.. Rinse and repeat.

We can't break teams down, especially if they have gone a goal up, when is the last time we came from a defect to win a game?

Our midfield is crap, pedestrian and weak.... I seriously don't know what's happened to Jack Cork but he's playing terribly.
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# 31
burnleymik
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby burnleymik » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:54 pm

Confidence. Dyche is losing confidence and the squad have lost theirs completely. Something needs to happen to rekindle that fire in all of them.

# 32
burnleymik
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby burnleymik » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:56 pm

CoolClaret wrote:Our patterns of play are tosh and they aren't changing.

Out wide, back, no movement up top, so back to the defence/goalkeeper for a speculative punt upfield.. Rinse and repeat.



This was increasingly frustrating yesterday. It was clear Barnes wasn;t going to get the better of Mina and Keane in the air and although Vokes won more than his fair share, we never managed to win the 2nd ball.

The most worrying thing was that we didn't change it, we kept doing what clearly wasn't working and looked totally devoid of a plan B.

# 33
bfcjg
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby bfcjg » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:57 pm

Is the problem there isn't a problem, but our obsession with problems is causing problems; problems can become endemic especially when there isnt a route cause for the problem but we think there must be a problem. It becomes very problematic.
Or a lack of pace.

# 34
PutTheWheelieBinsOut
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:59 pm

People point to our limited resources in terms of finance. But surely what you don't do with those limited resources is use them on a goalkeeper we don't need and 15m + on a forward he doesn't use. 15m is not loose change, it's been wasted.

# 35
Corky
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Corky » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:00 pm

The problem if such it is, is the fact that the Chairman and his Board are prepared to take a pragmatic long term view of the situation and do not seem to have come to terms with what it now costs to buy genuine Premier League players. They, I suspect, as I do not know for sure, are happy to say look we have spent £15m or whatever it was on a forward who plays like he sounds.

As a consequence we have a team of reasonable Championship players who because of how well they performed last season were deemed fit by the Board to carry on the good work this term. Sadly, other teams had found us out towards the end of last term and most have strengthened and evolved this term whereas we have not.

I would imagine that the Chairman and his Board will not be looking to splash the cash in January. I suspect that they will be planning for Championship football next seasons. They would see it as too much of a risk to spend anything like what we need to measurably improve the team.

# 36
Caballo
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Caballo » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:04 pm

Hart is an issue, doesn't command his area and won't come off his line for crosses, as a result we can no longer be as compact defensively, which allows teams to play through us. Previously we defended narrow allowing teams more freedom on flanks, this wasn't a threat as Heaton and then Pope are/were very effective on crossed balls.

# 37
jdrobbo
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby jdrobbo » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:13 pm

For me, we need to SELL the club captain in the window.

# 38
CombatClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby CombatClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:31 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:People point to our limited resources in terms of finance. But surely what you don't do with those limited resources is use them on a goalkeeper we don't need and 15m + on a forward he doesn't use. 15m is not loose change, it's been wasted.


So we didn't have three injured keepers?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... sean-dyche

# 39
PutTheWheelieBinsOut
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:46 pm

CombatClaret wrote:So we didn't have three injured keepers?

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... sean-dyche


Yes and thats why we have a loan system.

# 40
EarbyClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby EarbyClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:56 pm

As a team players, manager and coaching staff we reached the limit of our collective ability about 12 months ago.

I don't think confidence is as big a factor as some might suggest. It would perhaps help with decision making in some situations but at this level confidence only really comes into play if you are at least basically competitive with the opposition. We are not. Technically our players as a group are not up to a standard necessary to keep us in the PL long term. SD has been very good at what he does but there's no indication that he has the ability to evolve beyond the type/style of manager that he is.

When things were going well last season one of his soundbites that was picked up by the media went something along the lines of people get too hung up on 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 etc. - it's about the 11 players you put out on the pitch. Very true last season and sadly also this as we prove week after week as the personnel and shape changes to no great effect.

I don't think it's necessarily about complacency either. This is an ageing squad who are being asked to do the same things at this level for the third season in a row. Sadly they are just not up to it. They are not evolving and when compared with the progress at other teams individually and collectively we are being left behind. Cork and Mee are glaring examples this season but there are several others.

It seems highly unlikely there will be a change of manager in which case there has to be a change of personnel because not only is the current squad not good enough to keep us in this division if left basically intact ahead of next season it will struggle in the one below.

# 41
CombatClaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby CombatClaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:15 pm

PutTheWheelieBinsOut wrote:Yes and thats why we have a loan system.


Which premier league standard keepers were available and wanted to come to us on loan?
You don't know, but you still use the hypothetical to bash the club.

# 42
trawdenclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby trawdenclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:45 pm

5-3-2 at home against a team that had just been thrashed ? Everton lined up 3-4-3 says it all tactically inept.

# 43
expoultryboy
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby expoultryboy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:55 pm

We have no pace in any position plus we need a leader on the pitch .
This user liked this post: Wuggawumphwumph

# 44
claret59
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby claret59 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:37 pm

I know one swallow does not make a summer but I feel that if we had signed J Rod, who evidently wanted to come back to the club, we would have got a proven PL scorer who is also a great team player who would have had a positive effect on our season. Instead of closing the deal we just seemed to tinker with it and there were plenty on here who ridiculed the prospect of him re-signing.
Despite that the Club have spent money on transfers and Wood had a great last season so it was reasonable to expect something similar from him this time around but for some reason he has gone downhill at an alarming rate. Perhaps getting Wells back from his loan period ( if possible,) might pay off. At least he is back among the goals.

# 45
PutTheWheelieBinsOut
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby PutTheWheelieBinsOut » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:58 pm

CombatClaret wrote:Which premier league standard keepers were available and wanted to come to us on loan?
You don't know, but you still use the hypothetical to bash the club.


Oh i'm sorry I didn't take the time to conduct a survey at the time to find out which loan goalkeepers were available. Awww the vulnerable and poor innocent club which takes so much care of it's fans, heaven forbid anyone should bash it. Hows the disabled fans finding being in the new disabled corner stands, are they loving the view?.

# 46
Lancasterclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Lancasterclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:16 pm

Pretty well known that Hart only wanted to come on a permanent deal, he wouldn't do another loan.

Fair play to him for wanting 1st team football btw

# 47
Cirrus_Minor
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby Cirrus_Minor » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:48 pm

Probably the manager for consistently improving a basically low quality level squad to be able to compete st this level. This was based upon a close knit, confident group pulling together on a rigid defensive format.

The club was not prepared to go to the expense of recruiting the quality required to compete at this level and thought it was not needed due to a remarkably high finish last season.

A poor start and maybe some unrest in ‘the group’ has resulted in the project collapsing like a house of cards.

# 48
careyclaret
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby careyclaret » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:52 pm

I think Hart is the problem but not only for the reasons people have stated. He is on a top wage and the transfer fee we paid to City finds it's way back to him. Allowed the club to say it stayed within its wage structure and Hart to afford to come here. But upset Mee who was negotiating his own contract and also our popular club captain. I think the impact on morale and cohesion is a big one.

In terms of performance we have to compare Hart to Pope and the difference in commanding the area is huge.

# 49
matucana
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby matucana » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:57 pm

I do wonder if unexpected financial pressures have prevented player acquisitions of a quality that was anticipated by many in the last two windows.
1. the cost of participating in European Competition. Travel and accommodation costs.
2. the increase in cost of securing the services of the current management team from rolling contracts to fixed contracts including bonuses.
3. the unexpected signing of a goalkeeper on a transfer fee to try to maintain a quality in that department to cover for injuries.
4. the impact on finances of the two new corner stands. Originally they were due to be occupied at the start of this season. Both appeared initially to be of a low cost simple construction. Following delays they still will not be ready for some time but the one under construction does look far more substantial than the initial plans. I seem to recall costs were quoted of around £8m but a revised figure of £23m has been quoted somewhere.
5. New contracts being offered to some existing playing staff to ensure a degree of stability in the event of a possible relegation.
The Board is operating to a strict financial plan utilising revenue from the League et al, thus avoiding the need for some financial support from the Directors to maintain a debt free position. The Rodrigues/Dawson saga had a £40m price tag attached. The Vydra/Gibson acquisitions had a £26m price tag thus potentially freeing up £14m to contribute to the above financial pressures. Savings on wages following the departure of some players may also have been utilised towards meeting those pressures by not seeking replacements.
To change the Manager now along with many of his backroom staff would also create a very significant financial pressure along with associated replacement costs.
Whilst supporters are looking towards improving the squad in January, there could well be some departures to maintain the financial viability of the Plan.

# 50
boatshed bill
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Re: What is the actual problem?

Postby boatshed bill » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:35 pm

The actual problem?

We are crap! :D


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