Where does the Chairman stand in this situation

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:08 am

I remember his pre season interview when he was ready to spend, spend, spend
Ok, maybe not quite right but happy to say the new summer transfer budget would be higher than last
Not hard, given we actually made a profit on transfers the previous year
Also didn't get anywhere near spending what we paid for new additions 12 months prior
Which gives SD plenty of room for excuses he may want to throw out regarding our current situation
SD set out his personal targets (Dawson and Jay Rod) early doors so he could just sit back now, and suggest he wasn't backed
Very diplomatic of both of them to keep such matters quiet at this present time and certainly Garlick would well know that any move to sack SD could mean a backlash for him given the above

alboclaret · Post by **alboclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:57 am

if that's to blame and Mr chairman felt he has let Sean down then he/club would/should be sorting it right out in the first week of January with correct personel brought in.
when we only have one of them throw away f.a cup games that come round every year.

but we all know thats not going to happen

and whilst it's a point of concern, more concern is the complete lack of "team" feeling at the club. how can we go from such a united front last season and previous to this.
not all is rosy, obviously and may still have been the case had we signed dyche targets.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:59 am

Without Mike Garlick we don't continue to operate at any decent level. I base this on a distinct lack of meaningful investment from any other source and small though he may be in the grand scheme of things, he is still massive to us.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:11 am

So, you want him to gamble? Even given our past experience in the early 2000s? Even given the evidence of what happened to Bradford, Coventry, Wigan, Portsmouth, Leeds etc?

Realistically we could spend £30m on a player and he could be turd. That's the reality - how much did Leicester spend on Slimani and Ahmed Musa? How much have they done for LCFC? What would be prepared to do that? Cos that's the kind of gambling you're advocating. If it pays off then great - another season of mid-table Prem football. If it doesn't.....

ksrclaret · Post by **ksrclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:12 am

I suspect that Garlick would have been happy to spend more than last season, he wouldn't have been lying about that, but was most likely hampered by the distinct lack of targets we had and the manager's obsession with going after one or two players for an entire window.

Personally, I think Garlick has been great for us and will continue to be even if relegated. He's shown he's not afraid to spend money, and although probably very cautious and conservative in nature, he's backed Dyche massively for the size of our club.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:14 am

Foulthrow wrote:So, you want him to gamble? Even given our past experience in the early 2000s? Even given the evidence of what happened to Bradford, Coventry, Wigan, Portsmouth, Leeds etc?

Realistically we could spend £30m on a player and he could be turd. That's the reality - how much did Leicester spend on Slimani and Ahmed Musa? How much have they done for LCFC? What would be prepared to do that? Cos that's the kind of gambling you're advocating. If it pays off then great - another season of mid-table Prem football. If it doesn't.....

Yes. Spend 100m on quality and make it back by staying up

Wev already proven a majorly championship side can finish 7th.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:16 am

JohnMac wrote:Without Mike Garlick we don't continue to operate at any decent level. I base this on a distinct lack of meaningful investment from any other source and small though he may be in the grand scheme of things, he is still massive to us.

Numerous significant investments have been turned away over the last 18 months

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:17 am

Foulthrow wrote:So, you want him to gamble? Even given our past experience in the early 2000s? Even given the evidence of what happened to Bradford, Coventry, Wigan, Portsmouth, Leeds etc?

Realistically we could spend £30m on a player and he could be turd. That's the reality - how much did Leicester spend on Slimani and Ahmed Musa? How much have they done for LCFC? What would be prepared to do that? Cos that's the kind of gambling you're advocating. If it pays off then great - another season of mid-table Prem football. If it doesn't.....

Exactly this..and you left Sunderland out! Great documentary on Netflix.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:18 am

MRG wrote:Numerous significant investments have been turned away over the last 18 months

Accepted investment then.

He always says if it is right for the Club and I don't see him as a meglomaniac although he does have shifty looking eyes

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:20 am

Foulthrow wrote:So, you want him to gamble? Even given our past experience in the early 2000s? Even given the evidence of what happened to Bradford, Coventry, Wigan, Portsmouth, Leeds etc?

Realistically we could spend £30m on a player and he could be turd. That's the reality - how much did Leicester spend on Slimani and Ahmed Musa? How much have they done for LCFC? What would be prepared to do that? Cos that's the kind of gambling you're advocating. If it pays off then great - another season of mid-table Prem football. If it doesn't.....

Always the same crap spun on this matter, look at these clubs where investment didn’t work and completely ignore the majority of the current top 30 clubs that are working very well investors putting big money into the clubs. What really makes these posters look stupid is that they then go on to say how can we possibly compete at this level when our competitors have all this money.

Make your mind up, is investment bad? If so why are all these clubs around us dropping off like in the good old days with Coventry, Portsmouth etc??

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:23 am

JohnMac wrote:Accepted investment then.

He always says if it is right for the Club and I don't see him as a meglomaniac although he does have shifty looking eyes

I only know basic details but I know for a fact that we have had a number of approaches from investors of substantial wealth and we have been very reluctant to engage with them.

Who decides if it is right for the club?

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:23 am

My only problem with the chairman or whatever is that he didn’t tell Dyche we weren’t getting Jay Rod two weeks into the window.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:23 am

ksrclaret wrote:I suspect that Garlick would have been happy to spend more than last season, he wouldn't have been lying about that, but was most likely hampered by the distinct lack of targets we had and the manager's obsession with going after one or two players for an entire window.

Personally, I think Garlick has been great for us and will continue to be even if relegated. He's shown he's not afraid to spend money, and although probably very cautious and conservative in nature, he's backed Dyche massively for the size of our club.

Spot on about Sean's reluctance to gamble on youth,he wants steady eddie types like Walters who are good for the dressing room,also we never look outside the Championship for signings,and then are surprised when West Brom hold firm on their asking price,we wasted weeks over the summer chasing Jay and Dawson and ultimately came up empty-handed on both,Gibson and Vydra on paper look decent signings but Sean won't give them a chance,it does make you wonder how much influence Sean had over the Vydra acquisition especially.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:27 am

MRG wrote:Always the same crap spun on this matter, look at these clubs where investment didn’t work and completely ignore the majority of the current top 30 clubs that are working very well investors putting big money into the clubs. What really makes these posters look stupid is that they then go on to say how can we possibly compete at this level when our competitors have all this money.

Make your mind up, is investment bad? If so why are all these clubs around us dropping off like in the good old days with Coventry, Portsmouth etc??

I don't think I'm being stupid. I just think that, in reality, you can spend a lot of money and it brings no guarantee of success. You can also take in investors who promise to spend plenty and then these promises don't materialise. Our current model of ownership seems prudent and seems to work well. I was disappointed that we didn't bring in more players in the summer but I don't think we can splash the cash and not worry about the consequences if it all goes wrong.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:27 am

Can moan about Garlick not signing Dyche’s targets, but ultimately from what I can see it’s Dyche’s targets that are the problem in the first place.

“We can’t compete financially”, well guess we shouldn’t be trying to spend club record fees on average 29 year old strikers then...

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:30 am

Seems a lot of people on this thread think they know more about what happened in the last window than either Dyche or Garlick

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:33 am

Foulthrow wrote:I don't think I'm being stupid. I just think that, in reality, you can spend a lot of money and it brings no guarantee of success. You can also take in investors who promise to spend plenty and then these promises don't materialise. Our current model of ownership seems prudent and seems to work well. I was disappointed that we didn't bring in more players in the summer but I don't think we can splash the cash and not worry about the consequences if it all goes wrong.

The stupid wasn’t aimed at you. I don’t agree that the model is working for us. We have been fortunate to stay in this league, we squeeze every bit of a championship squad last season the didn’t improve over the summer when we were at our most attractive. This season we aren’t getting the same out of our championship squad and those teams around us have improved.

What really worries me is that the clubs in the championship have now also got the investment which could mean that we will also struggle to compete.

If we get relegated and a star player emerges in League 1, the whole championship and lower Premier league go after him, how many teams would have more financial clout than us?

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:34 am

Also, no one has mentioned - when was the last time you saw a vampire on the Turf? Never. Thankyou Mike Garlick.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:35 am

From the horse's mouth, as we prepare for the January window, this is what the chairman said.

It's always a really tricky window, whoever your allegiance is with. The better clubs always want to keep hold of their players, while the sides at the other end of the table are desperate not to help their rivals. Add to that the available players generally come at a premium in a sellers' market and it doesn't add up to a healthy mix.

The summer window is a much more stable environment to do business in, but that's not to say we won't be looking in the market. We continually keep our eye on potential targets and I have already chatted to Sean and our new Technical Director Mike Rigg to see what we can leverage over the next month or so to freshen up the squad.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:37 am

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tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:38 am

So don't expect any incomings basically,same old news.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:42 am

Whether you believe Jay was worth the fee or not is a separate debate but he was the player who Dyche asked the chairman to go and sign.
I am not pretending that I know all the inside dealings of the club - I don’t - but on this particular attempted transfer you cannot get any closer to knowing what happened than the person it came from. And from what he said it has definitely been an issue that has caused disharmony between the manager and the board.

But our position in the table is as a result of many different things - the opposite of a perfect storm. Is that a sh-it storm ?!!
Our failure to land enough good players in the transfer window has got to be a big reason surely.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:43 am

theroyaldyche wrote:Yes. Spend 100m on quality and make it back by staying up

Wev already proven a majorly championship side can finish 7th.

List your suggested signings that would guarantee to improve the side then...

Factor in wages, signing on and agents fees.

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:43 am

Getting a strong whiff of 2015 already

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:44 am

MRG wrote:I only know basic details but I know for a fact that we have had a number of approaches from investors of substantial wealth and we have been very reluctant to engage with them.

Who decides if it is right for the club?

Hopefully not one individual but this is Burnley though!

I can see the difficulty, there is this 'Guardian mentality' many of us are happy exists to maintain the future of the club.

On the flip side without substantial investment our future will eventually see us find a level comensurate with our porfolio, possibly League One isn't unrealistic. Not now but 5 or 6 years down the line, maybe longer but it will happen.

I'm sure most younger fans (I'm in my 60's) have a more relaxed attitude to what is down the line having known only Championship and Premier League football.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:47 am

SGr wrote:Getting a strong whiff of 2015 already

As opposed to the strong whiff of crap that people are spouting on here?

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:47 am

I think Garlick has tried to back Dyche in the transfer market. It is Dyche's narrow minded views and list of targets that has held us back.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:50 am

TVC15 wrote:Whether you believe Jay was worth the fee or not is a separate debate but he was the player who Dyche asked the chairman to go and sign.

Was he?

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:50 am

JohnMac wrote:Hopefully not one individual but this is Burnley though!

I can see the difficulty, there is this 'Guardian mentality' many of us are happy exists to maintain the future of the club.

On the flip side without substantial investment our future will eventually see us find a level comensurate with our porfolio, possibly League One isn't unrealistic. Not now but 5 or 6 years down the line, maybe longer but it will happen.

I'm sure most younger fans (I'm in my 60's) have a more relaxed attitude to what is down the line having known only Championship and Premier League football.

I agree John, I think we are at a crossroads and this is probably the last time that we will be in a position where we have choices. We can either try to have a crack at moving the club to the next stage with some investment or we accept that League 1 is probably our level for which our current board would be positive guardians. I was hopeful that we would try to make this level work for us

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:50 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:As opposed to the strong whiff of crap that people are spouting on here?

Don’t agree with the concept that the chairman has let Dyche down - but hey ho

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:53 am

ClaretTony wrote:Was he?

I hope he wasn’t

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:53 am

ClaretTony wrote:Was he?

Yes he was. Dyche and Jay had had a number of discussions at the end of last season to make sure both of their expectations were aligned and that infomation is from the horses mouth.

Murger · Post by **Murger** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:54 am

Any reason for Dyche plucking £200m from nowhere? Or is just something the happy clappers can use as a stick to beat us with?

IndigoLake · Post by **IndigoLake** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:56 am

Eddie Howe could spot a player.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:56 am

MRG wrote:Yes he was. Dyche and Jay had had a number of discussions at the end of last season to make sure both of their expectations were aligned and that infomation is from the horses mouth.

I hadn't realised Dyche or Jay Rod consulted with you.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:58 am

I would go for :
Moses or Moreno- on loan. We need a proper wing back in this system and both are not getting games.

Austin - he’s a natural goal scorer. He’s not getting picked and they are bringing on the less than prolific Shane Long before him at the moment.

Central midfielder - struggling to think of one within our price range who might come. But we need one. McCarthy possibly but hard to say whether he has recovered from his injury and I think Everton would ask for a lot of money for him because of our situation.

JayRod - not sure he would still come or whether West Brom would sell him now but I think he still improves our first eleven and would be our best forward.

I would ship Wood and possibly Vydra to fund these - even if this means taking a hit.

Drastic situations like our current position are not going to be rectified by tinkering around the edges. It needs 3 or 4 players who go straight into the first team and it also needs the likes of Brady, JBG, Pope and others findotheir best form if we have any chance of staying up.

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:58 am

ClaretTony wrote:I hadn't realised Dyche or Jay Rod consulted with you.

And there is the problem Tony. You sometimes forget that others have relationships within the club. At least you now know though.

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:06 pm

Substantial investment will only give us an opportunity to consolidate, I don't ever see a better finish than last season's 7th place. That was our 'Leicester' and it won't really get any better in my humble opinion.

Whatever happens, it isn't going to change this season. It's down to the Manager, Staff and Players to try and scrape that extra point needed at the 38 game point.

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:08 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Was he?

According to the person who told me he was. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt what he told me and whilst I respect that you are a lot more closer to knowing what is happening at the club than myself Tony, on this particular issue it was as close to the horses mouth as it can get !
And if I was in any doubt I was recently told exactly the same version of the events I was told by someone else.

As said I know little or nothing about what happens inside the club - and don’t pretend to. In 40 years of supporting them this is probably the only time I have been told something as credible as this.

I did however work behind the bar at The Sparrow Hawk as a young 16 year old when we signed Joe Gallagher. And I can tell you he definitely had a limp when we signed him as he was stopping in the hotel and I saw him !!

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:28 pm

tim_noone wrote:Exactly this..and you left Sunderland out! Great documentary on Netflix.

Was looking at this yesterday,any good Tim.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:35 pm

MRG wrote:I agree John, I think we are at a crossroads and this is probably the last time that we will be in a position where we have choices. We can either try to have a crack at moving the club to the next stage with some investment or we accept that League 1 is probably our level for which our current board would be positive guardians. I was hopeful that we would try to make this level work for us

Agree with this. The next few weeks will say a lot about our Chairman and the future he sees for our club whilst he is at the helm. I certainly don't see him as proactive and to put up a white flag at Christmas time and stick with what we know isn't the best custodianship imo.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:09 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:List your suggested signings that would guarantee to improve the side then...

Factor in wages, signing on and agents fees.

They wanted jay rod and dawson but woildnt pay

Id have shelvey or mouy in meself and another striker

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:11 pm

Hapag Lloyd wrote:Pot kettle black springs to mind.

Your delusional if you think that garlick has backed us to the best of his ability

Were the only team whos gone backwards

Bordeauxclaret · Post by **Bordeauxclaret** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:12 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:They wanted jay rod and dawson but woildnt pay

Id have shelvey or mouy in meself and another striker

Presumably you mean Mooy who is injured and would have been off to the Asian games anyway.
Not sure why Australia are in them mind.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:12 pm

MRG wrote:And there is the problem Tony. You sometimes forget that others have relationships within the club. At least you now know though.

Absolutly spot on

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:29 pm

I’ve listed mine
Moses or Moreno on loan (or both given what we are asking of our fullbacks in this system)
Austin - think he should be near end of contract
JayRod
Central midfielder- possibly McCarthy but we need to think long term with this one and buy quality.

I would sell Wood, Vydra and Wells which could bring in between £15m and £20m and free up around £5m a year in wages.

The new permanent signings would cost around £40m and increase the wage bill by around £8m to £10m a year. We would also lose Walters at end of the season which would save us £2m a year in wages and we could possibly consider losing one of Westwood, Hendrick, Cork, Lennon or Defour at the end of the season to save another £2m to £3m a year (Defour purely because of injuries).

The loan players are both affordable and they are the “gamble” / risk we should be taking to survive whereas the other players are long term signings. Austin possibly falls in the risk category with his injury record but he is one of the few players who in this league (that we can afford) has a proven track record of scoring say 9 or 10 goals in half a season.

I know this leaves us with an ageing forward line - something that we would need to address at some point soon. But on “paper” it looks affordable from a transfer and wages point of view and don’t think it puts the club at risk financially if we got relegated.

Unfortunately because of our poor summer transfer window I don’t think we now have the luxury of risking buying players who do not have experience of the premier league.

Oh and btw I am not expecting any of this to actually happen !!

jojomk1 · Post by **jojomk1** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:13 pm

MRG wrote:And there is the problem Tony. You sometimes forget that others have relationships within the club. At least you now know though.

Heard, from a close relationship of a senior position within the club, that we had agreed (in principle) a wage figure with Jay Rod back in May/June so were then happy to go for his signing

CT doesn't name his sources and the same goes for me

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:21 pm

jojomk1 wrote:Heard, from a close relationship of a senior position within the club, that we had agreed (in principle) a wage figure with Jay Rod back in May/June so were then happy to go for his signing

CT doesn't name his sources and the same goes for me

That is exactly what happened, everything was agreed between the manager, Chief Exec, Jay and his agent in May. All that was left to do was the 2 clubs agree a few which they weren’t able to do. This is absolutely fact. Any suggestions that Jay wasn’t the player that Dyche wanted us simply incorrect.

Mala591 · Post by **Mala591** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:24 pm

If Jay Rod was so keen to come then why didn't he hand in a transfer request ?

MRG · Post by **MRG** » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:26 pm

Mala591 wrote:If Jay Rod was so keen to come then why didn't he hand in a transfer request ?

If Dyche was so keen to get him why didn’t he stamp his feet to the board?