So....Was It Just The Change Of Keeper?

[bobinho]

Of course, those with an agenda will say yes.

Those without one will say no.

One thing is not in question... attitude was key. They WANTED it. If that was due to Heaton being present, so be it, but If one player is SOOOOO key to other players deciding whether they want to put a shift in, I think they need a bollocking, and i'm not very happy.

Great save by TH in the last couple of minutes.... not expecting MOTD to feature it...

Great effort and application today. Could've been 5.

[CrosspoolClarets]

Was Heaton captain? I forget who went to the middle at the start. I thought I saw Mee with an armband on.

I think that responsibility has handicapped Mee this season.

EDIT - yes, I can see now that Mee didn’t have an armband, it was that AstroPay advert on his sleeve, the same as the horrible flashing one that gives us headaches all game from the billboards.

[claretspice]

Heaton was captain and went to the middle at the start. Maybe the responsibility has impacted on Mee - it's been a tough stretch - although in fairness he dealt with it well last season after Heaton got injured.

I'm not sure why everything gets reduced to people having agenda's or not on here, incidentally. People can take opinions because it's what they think. At which point does it become an agenda?

[FactualFrank]

Heaton was captain. Which in itself speaks volumes. You don't randomly change the captain unless it's to somebody you see as playing a stretch of games.

[BabylonClaret]

One thing is not in question... attitude was key. They WANTED it. If that was due to Heaton being present, so be it, but If one player is SOOOOO key to other players deciding whether they want to put a shift in, I think they need a bollocking, and i'm not very happy.

This

[Colburn_Claret]

Heats helped, but the biggest difference was McNeil and Bardsley
They get the ball and look to go forward. Run at players, look to pass forward. Positivity we've been crying out for, for a long time.

Cork and Westwood had much better games, although I still think they're too similar to compliment each other. Ben Mee had a great game as well.

Just need to keep playing positively. We've had false dawns before, so I'm not going to get carried away, but if we keep it up we'll be fine.

[Jakubs Tash]

Also. Note to Wood. He did miss a chance he shouldve scored.

But his overall game and his movement in particular was top drawer.

He missed more than one!!! He was much improved though.

[cricketfieldclarets]

But - Heaton deserves real credit. Hart wasn't making howlers, but he just wasn't doing enough to protect our goal. I got some stick for criticising his failure to advance off his line to at least try and intercept the danger for Spurs' winner a fortnight ago but I stand by it as one of serveral examples recently of goals where Hart might have done better .

Come on. You cant still keep banging that drum. You were the only person in tge football world who said he should have saved that spurs goal.

And lets not pretend that he is much worse at such things than Heaton.

There were a couple of crosses early doors heaton didnt come for including one fizzed past him and one which they won a free header from. Not too dissimilar to evertons opener.

Thats not to take anything away from Heaton. Who was excellent especially after 15 months out.

[Vegas Claret]

some players need a goalkeeper barking out orders and that was very evident today

[IanMcL]

Yes. He commanded and the defence obeyed.

[SmudgetheClaret]

One thing for sure you could hear Tom shouting and I'm not sure I ever heard Joe..

[Long Time Lurker]

Hi Long Time, yes, Joe Hart is a Premier League keeper, but we've been missing Tom's leadership and organisation at the back. That, for me, is the biggest reason why "our problems this season have been about the players in front of Hart." And, what Tom has done today and before his injury, so Nick Pope can also do.

For me, it will be very challenging to keep 3 Premier League keepers. It's probably a big enought challenge keeping 2 guys happy when there is only one place in the team. If Nick is going to be fit in the near term then I'd be offering Joe Hart on loan and keeping Tom and Nick. I'd have no problem keeping Joe Hart, so long as he understands he will be No.3 behind Tom and Nick (or will it be Nick and Tom, once Nick is proven 100%+ ready)?

UTC

Hi Paul, Its hard to say, because it all depends on what Joe is looking for.

If he is looking to play in matches as a means of forcing his way back into contention for the England no1 spot then he might have an uphill climb ahead of him.

If he is looking to improve areas of his game in a competitive environment with goalkeepers he can learn from, who are strong in those areas, then he is right where he needs to be. The fact that he is more than able to provide equal overall competition for Tom and Nick, and he has the opportunity to teach the other two things that could improve their games, is also a consideration. The fact that nobody has an ongoing given right to a shirt here is another influential factor.

Getting the England no1 shirt back is not going to be an easy task, but there is more than one way to do it. Whether it is on the pitch or off it improvement is the key consideration and the quickest route. Leadership and command are natural traits, but they can be learned and they can be learned here. As well as diving down and to the left. The moment you start to think you have learned everything is the moment you start regressing. Joe is a very good player, but he has the chance to become an even better player if he sticks with us and that is what he needs to do if he wants to reclaim the England no1 shirt.

[Hibsclaret]

You should remember that Hart has spent much of his career playing for teams that have lots of possession and do not concede many shots or chances. This may explain his brilliant saves from time to time and also his relative inability to command the box, where it has been needed less in the other teams.

Heaton has played for teams getting lots of shots and crosses against them. It is also more important to be vocal in those teams.

In a nutshell Heaton suits us better than Hart.

Pope is better than both

[cricketfieldclarets]

One thing for sure you could hear Tom shouting and I'm not sure I ever heard Joe..

I sat behind the jml for the brighton game. He was very vocal.

I think people want any stick to beat him with.

I understand people wanting Heaton back.
I also understand to an extent him getting back in.

But you would think we have been playing with Mark Kendall in goal and Brazil of 1970 in front of him.

[cricketfieldclarets]

You should remember that Hart has spent much of his career playing for teams that have lots of possession and do not concede many shots or chances. This may explain his brilliant saves from time to time and also his relative inability to command the box, where it has been needed less in the other teams.

Heaton has played for teams getting lots of shots and crosses against them. It is also more important to be vocal in those teams.

In a nutshell Heaton suits us better than Hart.

Pope is better than both

I think you have probably hit the nail on the head. As daft as it sounds Harts probably better in a better side where he is called on once or twice a game to make a crucial save and rarely has to deal with a constant barrage of shots, crosses and crowded boxes.

[kaptin1]

I watched the second half on a stream and the first thing I noticed was Heaton yelling “Gerrup” to the defence. So much more vocal than Hart. The save near the end from Carroll was first class too.

[CoolClaret]

Agreed HibsClaret,
I think Hart just suits more attack minded teams better, or teams that dominate possession, where the majority of his action will be recovery saves/shots rather than being under pressure a lot.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I suspect he will move to Turkey or China. Cant see anyone taking him here.

I actually think hes a top keeper. But theres too much of a question mark over him here now. Perhaps hes better suited to somewhere with less scrutiny.

Hes good enough to play at this level imo.

Got to feel for him. Hes not been the same since Guardiola publically ridiculed him.

That to me reads - I think he’s good but nobody else over here does.
I realise you’ve hung your hat on him since he signed but he’s been average/poor for four years. Time to let go.

[Cirrus_Minor]

So is the loan request still on then?

[claretspice]

Come on. You cant still keep banging that drum. You were the only person in tge football world who said he should have saved that spurs goal.

And lets not pretend that he is much worse at such things than Heaton.

There were a couple of crosses early doors heaton didnt come for including one fizzed past him and one which they won a free header from. Not too dissimilar to evertons opener.

Thats not to take anything away from Heaton. Who was excellent especially after 15 months out.

Not getting dragged into a debate about specific incidents again, although I don't think you are correct either about the incidents you mention today, or the general view of Hart's willingness to come off his goal-line to intercept danger.

I think Hart is a perfectly decent keeper - albeit one who is suffering from having taken plenty of punches over the past couple of years - and I reckon he's a decent enough egg too from what I know. But I do think Heaton is a better keeper, particularly when it comes to stepping off his line both to deal with crosses and narrow the angles, and whilst its harder to judge from the stands, when it comes to organising a backline that is under pressure. Whether or not we agree on that general statement, or on specific incidents, I'd like to think it's inarguable that Heaton contributed to our success today.

[agreenwood]

It’s never just been about the keeper.

He’s been a problem but there have been plenty of others.

Hopefully we can look to move Hart on in January now.

I can’t see Hart leaving next month. It took City two years to sell him and, rightly or wrongly, his reputation won’t have been helped by recently having been dropped by the latest in a growing line of teams since 2016.

[Claretnick]

So is the loan request still on then?

Surely not, I think we need to keep all the keepers in this window, cannot gamble on any other injuries cropping up. I was glad to see Tom showing he has recovered physically and mentally, recall Alan Stevenson not being the same keeper on crosses after he had a bad shoulder injury, but I suppose medical science has moved on a lot since the early 70's. UTC

[jrgbfc]

We've created a massive issue for ourselves by signing Hart. I feel that he's going to have to see out his 2 years with us or we come to some kind of agreement with him this summer to allow him to become a free agent. I don't think he'll want to spend 18 months sitting on our bench somehow.

[Bordeauxclaret]

I can’t see Hart leaving next month. It took City two years to sell him and, rightly or wrongly, his reputation won’t have been helped by recently having been dropped by the latest in a growing line of teams since 2016.

Me either but we can hope.
With Pope back there is no room for him here on such a big wage.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Fantastic to see Heaton back more confidence and a lot more settled players in front of him. The save and then then to come and claim that cross just after showed what we have been missing.

[Hibsclaret]

We've created a massive issue for ourselves by signing Hart. I feel that he's going to have to see out his 2 years with us or we come to some kind of agreement with him this summer to allow him to become a free agent. I don't think he'll want to spend 18 months sitting on our bench somehow.

I don’t think he should have been signed (as good as he’s been).

We created a problem for ourselves at Aberdeen by playing Pope after 3 days training. If we play Lindegaard there we don’t get the Pope injury and we don’t need to sign Hart...All ifs and buts but it could have affected the whole season.

[jrgbfc]

I don’t think he should have been signed (as good as he’s been).

We created a problem for ourselves at Aberdeen by playing Pope after 3 days training. If we play Lindegaard there we don’t get the Pope injury and we don’t need to sign Hart...All ifs and buts but it could have affected the whole season.

Yeah Lindegaard has proved himself perfectly capable of playing if needed. I wouldn't have any problem with him being our permanent number 2 tbh. Pope isn't going to be willing to sit on the bench either after last season.

[EarbyClaret]

Different types of 'keeper with very different career histories prior to coming here.

Little doubt that Heaton's style is better suited to the way we play.

But as a team we had to do better at adapting to the change of style without Heaton/Pope at the start of this season. Surely that's something that should have been addressed by the manager and coaching staff. It's certainly not all down to Hart who is probably in most respects the same 'keeper he always has been.

[PutTheWheelieBinsOut]

I think today Sean to his credit took the shackles off the team, he let them express themselves on the ball. We had good possession of the football. I thought personally the most pleasing aspect was Taylor and McNeil down the left. I think Taylor has been much maligned over recent weeks but he is s modern day full back for me, where going forwards is as just an essential skill as defending rather than the old style that didn't cross the half way line. Sean set up the team that played to his strengths. Credit to Dyche for that. What a good day!

[bobinho]

Signing Hart was an absolute no brainier.

Had we not, the board, the recruitment team and Sean Dyche himself would’ve been lambasted relentlessly for failing in their duty.

We still hear about how not strengthening midfield in the aftermath of Dean Marneys injury proper screwed us up, and not signing Hart would’ve shown we’d learned NOTHING from that.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Signing Hart was an absolute no brainier.

Had we not, the board, the recruitment team and Sean Dyche himself would’ve been lambasted relentlessly for failing in their duty.

We still hear about how not strengthening midfield in the aftermath of Dean Marneys injury proper screwed us up, and not signing Hart would’ve shown we’d learned NOTHING from that.

Spot on.

Imagine Heaton was out for an extended period. Or did his shoulder again. Or got several niggles after a year out.

And we then got knocked out by Aberdeen. Or ended up having a poor season.

As it happens we got knocked out early and had a **** season anyway. But imagine we hadnt signed a keeper and that happened.

[Steve-Harpers-perm]

Spot on.

Imagine Heaton was out for an extended period. Or did his shoulder again. Or got several niggles after a year out.

And we then got knocked out by Aberdeen. Or ended up having a poor season.

As it happens we got knocked out early and had a **** season anyway. But imagine we hadnt signed a keeper and that happened.

Forgot we only had Heaton and Pope on our books in August....

[ClaretAL]

and to be fair i thought Lindegard was doing a suitable job until Tom got back too.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Forgot we only had Heaton and Pope on our books in August....

And theres me forgetting both were injured.