Attack in manchester

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:09 pm

Literrally happened next to us a victoria station

Finally got home.after trains cancelled back.towards burnley

Nightmare

claretdj · Post by **claretdj** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:11 pm

Terrorist related? Or some loon?

JohnMac · Post by **JohnMac** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:13 pm

Not good, a Police Officer, a man and a woman injured.

Glad you are safe mate.

WestMidsClaret · Post by **WestMidsClaret** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:13 pm

claretdj wrote:Terrorist related? Or some loon?

Both the same thing aren't they.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:29 pm

So glad you're safe.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:34 pm

yeah glad you are safe, sadly the world we live in now, very depressing end to the year

ElectroClaret · Post by **ElectroClaret** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:41 pm

Three people stabbed at Victoria Station, apparently.
Including a police officer.
(BBC)

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:48 pm

Terrible news hope those stabbed make a full recovery and glad you are safe trd.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:59 pm

WestMidsClaret wrote:Both the same thing aren't they.

Erm, no...

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:15 am

Being linked to terrorist attack but suppose it is far too early to say.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:30 am

Police are looking for a man who looks nothing like Glen Little.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:37 am

tybfc wrote:Being linked to terrorist attack but suppose it is far too early to say.

Even if that's the case, some of those who claim to be terrorists (and those who are single attackers wielding knives are usually among them) turn out to be not right. Doesn't make their victims any less harmed and there's a wider debate about how they come into contact with an ideology that mixes with their original problems, but the individuals in most of these types of attacks are often of that ilk.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:40 am

I think if someone attacks random people in the name of an ideology then it's classed as terrorism.
If it's in the name of religion then they are obviously f***ing mental.
Not sure how one detracts from the other

tybfc · Post by **tybfc** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:44 am

Damo wrote:I think if someone attacks random people in the name of an ideology then it's classed as terrorism.
If it's in the name of religion then they are obviously f***ing mental.
Not sure how one detracts from the other

In simplistic terms both need help.

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:51 am

thatdberight wrote:Even if that's the case, some of those who claim to be terrorists (and those who are single attackers wielding knives are usually among them) turn out to be not right. Doesn't make their victims any less harmed and there's a wider debate about how they come into contact with an ideology that mixes with their original problems, but the individuals in most of these types of attacks are often of that ilk.

I think 100% of terrorists are not right either.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:19 am

Test User wrote:I think 100% of terrorists are not right either.

It must be comforting to think you live in a world of such simplistic untruths.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:48 am

Test User wrote:I think 100% of terrorists are not right either.

Suffragettes?
(Not that I support violent protest in any way)

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:07 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Suffragettes?
(Not that I support violent protest in any way)

Take your pick according to choice but Mandela, Begin, Washington, Collins, Kenyatta and many more...

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:12 am

Maybe change the thread title. Got my heart racing first thing.

Sounds like none of the three people have life threatening injuries and he's been arrested.

Gp8419 · Post by **Gp8419** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:32 am

Claretmatt4 wrote:Maybe change the thread title. Got my heart racing first thing.

Sounds like none of the three people have life threatening injuries and he's been arrested.

Oh right so a bloke screaming 'allah' and running down a train station stabbing anyone at will is just nothing to you now.Sounds if there was no police presence he could of killed many,very lucky that he did it in a high risk place.If he did it anywhere else surely there would be several casualties.Must of been horrific to see it all and frightening

Claretmatt4 · Post by **Claretmatt4** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:35 am

Not at all, just the thread title sounds like it could be a major incident with lots of casualties like in May 2016 and sadly 3 people being stabbed, not fatally, isn't that major anymore.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:47 am

tybfc wrote:In simplistic terms both need help.

Need help do they? I have a better solution.

evensteadiereddie · Post by **evensteadiereddie** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:27 am

This thread should have stopped after post 3.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:37 am

Gp8419 wrote:Sounds if there was no police presence

A Transport police officer was stabbed and around 8 officers took him down. Lucky in that respect it was a major train station.

Just seen a video on facebook of the suspect getting arrested and put in the back of the van. He looked to be a well built Afro Carribean chap.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:41 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Police are looking for a man who looks nothing like Glen Little.

Ffs

Not good macca literally happened right next to us. Had me little lad we me

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:01 pm

Accy the place to be.

Grumps · Post by **Grumps** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:11 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:Ffs

Not good macca literally happened right next to us. Had me little lad we me

The lack of thought by posters on here at times beggers belief, hopefully there will be no lasting damage to you or your lad, must have been awful to witness.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:31 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Suffragettes?
(Not that I support violent protest in any way)

Were there any terrorist suffragettes? I know there was some violence, but I would have thought it a stretch to say that their aim was to create terror among the populace. If they did have that ambition, then they would (IMO) be among the 100% or so who were wrong.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:38 pm

dsr wrote:Were there any terrorist suffragettes? I know there was some violence, but I would have thought it a stretch to say that their aim was to create terror among the populace. If they did have that ambition, then they would (IMO) be among the 100% or so who were wrong.

I don't think you understand the definition of terrorism; "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." or, Collins, "Terrorism is the use of violence, especially murder and bombing, in order to achieve political aims or to force a government to do something."

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:49 pm

thatdberight wrote:I don't think you understand the definition of terrorism; "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims." or, Collins, "Terrorism is the use of violence, especially murder and bombing, in order to achieve political aims or to force a government to do something."

Oh, well that's that then. Obviously you would have to be pretty stupid to believe that "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people". I'll try and do better in future.

But as nil_desperandum accurately pointed out, there were suffragette terrorists. https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/artic ... -militancy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I would definitely put them among the 100% of terrorists that were wrong.

MACCA · Post by **MACCA** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:23 pm

theroyaldyche wrote:Ffs

Not good macca literally happened right next to us. Had me little lad we me

You're right, not good at all.

Hope you and all your party are ok.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:48 pm

dsr wrote: But as nil_desperandum accurately pointed out, there were suffragette terrorists. https://www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/artic ... -militancy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I would definitely put them among the 100% of terrorists that were wrong.

Blimey, dsr agrees with nil - d post, New Year shock!
Happy New Year one and all!!!!!

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:50 pm

dsr wrote:"Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people".

Although that claims to be the broadest definition, it's very narrow. The need for the violence to be "intentionally indiscriminate" would exclude many groups which would normally be regarded as terrorists.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:11 pm

If it is indeed Islamic terrorism the perpetrator will invariably cry "Allah-hu-Akbar" (Allah is greater in Arabic), until this is determined it can only be put down to a run of the mill lunatic attack or some other form of domestic terrorism. The OP could know if this is the case if they were in close proximity to the attack.

claretandy · Post by **claretandy** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:26 pm

morpheus2 wrote:If it is indeed Islamic terrorism the perpetrator will invariably cry "Allah-hu-Akbar" (Allah is greater in Arabic), until this is determined it can only be put down to a run of the mill lunatic attack or some other form of domestic terrorism. The OP could know if this is the case if they were in close proximity to the attack.

Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/News_Executive/stat ... 8227334144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:37 pm

claretandy wrote:Confirmed.

https://twitter.com/News_Executive/stat ... 8227334144" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dammit.
Oh well, cue the 'whataboutary' and the desperate looser definitions of the word 'terrorism' etc ....mind you, did I hear that IT was serving a ban?

I'm hoping that the present-day (so-called) Islamic State is on its last legs and these loons are just a few loose stragglers of the rearguard.
Let us hope this is the end of this stupidity, let us hope that Islam can reach some kind of enlightenment and these primitive ideas are cast back into the moral backwaters of 7th century Arabia where they belong and that a similar reformation - something like the one you Christians (bar a few weirdos in the US Bible belt) went through can guide Islam away from the cruelty, misogyny and bigotry in its ancient texts.
Unfortunately I won't be holding my breath though while the deluded apologetics and denial is so rife.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:58 pm

morpheus2 wrote:Dammit.
Oh well, cue the 'whataboutary' and the desperate looser definitions of the word 'terrorism' etc ....mind you, did I hear that IT was serving a ban?

I'm hoping that the present-day (so-called) Islamic State is on its last legs and these loons are just a few loose stragglers of the rearguard.
Let us hope this is the end of this stupidity, let us hope that Islam can reach some kind of enlightenment and these primitive ideas are cast back into the moral backwaters of 7th century Arabia where they belong and that a similar reformation - something like the one you Christians (bar a few weirdos in the US Bible belt) went through can guide Islam away from the cruelty, misogyny and bigotry in its ancient texts.
Unfortunately I won't be holding my breath though while the deluded apologetics and denial is so rife.

whataboutery*

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:02 pm

Four injured in a car-ramming-into-crowd incident in Germany too.

morpheus2 · Post by **morpheus2** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:04 pm

thatdberight wrote:whataboutery*

Haven't got a clue...thought it was a word made up on this board...I spelt it correctly first time but my spelcheck didn't recognise it so I spelled it the way I thought it should be spelded.

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:34 pm

thatdberight wrote:It must be comforting to think you live in a world of such simplistic untruths.

I suspect my opinion is far more complex and nuanced than yours.

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:36 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Suffragettes?
(Not that I support violent protest in any way)

I didn't say they can't have good points. Most terrorists who blow themselves up on buses have a worthwhile point to make. But if you do it by harming either yourself or other innocent people then you are clearly "not right".

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:47 pm

Well then lets let loads more potential attackers come across from France on little boats.

ClaretAndJew · Post by **ClaretAndJew** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:51 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Well then lets let loads more potential attackers come across from France on little boats.

Wouldn't it be easier for loads more to come over on big boats?

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:55 pm

Criminally insane =terrorist

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:08 pm

Spike wrote:Criminally insane =terrorist

I really don't think that Mandela was criminally insane, nor many others who fought for a cause. That's not to say that I agree with their methods or tactics.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:10 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I really don't think that Mandela was criminally insane, nor many others who fought for a cause. That's not to say that I agree with their methods or tactics.

It's a nonsense comment. Clearly not all those who are "criminally insane" are terrorists.

Looks like I was right about the Manchester guy. Detained under the Mental Health Act.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:12 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:I really don't think that Mandela was criminally insane, nor many others who fought for a cause. That's not to say that I agree with their methods or tactics.

What about de Gaulle? Is there some level of illegitimacy of government at which you're prepared to sanction violence? I'd hope so.