Seaborne Freight

[nil_desperandum]

He's Brexit ready then!

Unless he falls ill and needs drugs. But maybe that's why he's got the guns.

[aggi]

Work to make it & make it to work it, easy peasey, everything will sort itself out, the only problems which appears apparent is, poo pro remain propaganda.

Exactly, easy peasy is this Brexit stuff. You just have to want it enough.

[Bfcboyo]

Unless he falls ill and needs drugs. But maybe that's why he's got the guns.

These druids are grinding dandelions to cure ailments.

[Jakubclaret]

Exactly, easy peasy is this Brexit stuff. You just have to want it enough.

You can all yib yab jabber jabber until the cows come home, won’t alter or detract from the fact, a simple yes or no question got asked, & a simple yes or no answer got delivered. Extremely simple concept don’t comprehend the Herculean effort to grasp.

[nil_desperandum]

You can all yib yab jabber jabber until the cows come home, won’t alter or detract from the fact, a simple yes or no question got asked, ......

And that's where all the trouble started, because it was phrased as a simple question whereas there is no simple solution. All the main advocates of "leave" such as Johnson knew this, and that's why they all jumped ship as soon as they realised they'd accidentally won.

[Jakubclaret]

And that's where all the trouble started, because it was phrased as a simple question whereas there is no simple solution. All the main advocates of "leave" such as Johnson knew this, and that's why they all jumped ship as soon as they realised they'd accidentally won.

https://youtu.be/2AzEY6ZqkuE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bfcboyo]

https://youtu.be/2AzEY6ZqkuE

Well
We have a Jackubite here now. You lowland traitors.

[aggi]

You can all yib yab jabber jabber until the cows come home, won’t alter or detract from the fact, a simple yes or no question got asked, & a simple yes or no answer got delivered. Extremely simple concept don’t comprehend the Herculean effort to grasp.

It's a fair point, we should have just left the day after the vote. I'd sacrifice stuff like food and electricity for sovereignty any day of the week.

[Lancasterclaret]

Its a fallacy to say that leave voters didn't have a clue what they were voting for, but in some cases its absolutely 100% accurate.

[Lancasterclaret]

Think its safe to say that the No Deal preparations need some work

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1082146978308476928" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Quickenthetempo]

He is an oddball that Grayling but apparently very supportive of re-opening the Colne to Skipton railway line. Let's hope he gets that sorted before thrown out of office.

[Lancasterclaret]

Be interesting to see just how many of the closed railway lines re-open.

We've got the old Lancaster to Yorkshire one pretty much outside our house, and its now a very popular cycle route.

[Quickenthetempo]

Be interesting to see just how many of the closed railway lines re-open.

We've got the old Lancaster to Yorkshire one pretty much outside our house, and its now a very popular cycle route.

With the amount of traffic on the roads we need to get public transport used as much as we can.

The only problem is Public transport costs the government money and putting fuel in the car makes them fortunes.

[Lancasterclaret]

You are not wrong

[dsr]

It’s not that simple. Our membership of the EU involves us in 55 areas of cooperation. Flights - of them in and out of the country depend on the agreement we are part of as the EU. Police cooperation - as was on here around Xmas. We can’t just stay in these and leave the EU, as this would be like keeping all the benefits without any responsibilities. And if we leave these areas without replacement agreements, there will be utter chaos.

You talk as if the benefit is all one way. Are you saying that if BA and Lufthansa both have flights Heathrow to Frankfurt, then the UK ought to pay Germany because it's a UK benefit? Seems to me there are benefits on both sides.

Same with the police. I know the USA don't pay for the mutual sharing of anti-terrorist information with the UK, or with the EU. It's deemed a benefit to both sides. Are you saying that after Brexit we can continue sharing with the USA but not with the EU? Or that every time we tell them anything useful, we must send them a cheque as well or they will refuse to use it?

[thatdberight]

Its a fallacy to say that leave voters didn't have a clue what they were voting for, but in some cases its absolutely 100% accurate.

As it is for some who voted remain. But I take your point; an unfocused, unknowing protest vote isn't going to be for the status quo.

That said, there comes a point where the "education" of the electorate until they see things "right" looks like a rejection of democracy.

[AndrewJB]

Be interesting to see just how many of the closed railway lines re-open.

We've got the old Lancaster to Yorkshire one pretty much outside our house, and its now a very popular cycle route.

Lots of lost cycle routes around that could be reopened too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39847740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lancasterclaret]

As it is for some who voted remain. But I take your point; an unfocused, unknowing protest vote isn't going to be for the status quo.

That said, there comes a point where the "education" of the electorate until they see things "right" looks like a rejection of democracy.

My fault that you've assumed I'm generalising so I apologise.

It was meant to be seen as a comment to be directed at Jakubs post, but I didn't copy his post so its not as clear as I'd want it to be.

[Lancasterclaret]

That said, there comes a point where the "education" of the electorate until they see things "right" looks like a rejection of democracy.

My argument to that would be something this complex shouldn't be decided based on the vast majority not having enough knowledge about what it actually involves.

Which is why I reluctantly don't want anymore referendums and acknowledge that we probably have to go for Mays deal*

*but I'd take another referendum over a "No Deal" 100% of the time.

[thatdberight]

My argument to that would be something this complex shouldn't be decided based on the vast majority not having enough knowledge about what it actually involves.

Which is why I reluctantly don't want anymore referendums and acknowledge that we probably have to go for Mays deal*

*but I'd take another referendum over a "No Deal" 100% of the time.

I know the counterargument is "it's only for 5 years" but the same applies to a GE; who could possibly have enough knowledge to vote sensibly across that many policy areas?

[AndrewJB]

You talk as if the benefit is all one way. Are you saying that if BA and Lufthansa both have flights Heathrow to Frankfurt, then the UK ought to pay Germany because it's a UK benefit? Seems to me there are benefits on both sides.

Same with the police. I know the USA don't pay for the mutual sharing of anti-terrorist information with the UK, or with the EU. It's deemed a benefit to both sides. Are you saying that after Brexit we can continue sharing with the USA but not with the EU? Or that every time we tell them anything useful, we must send them a cheque as well or they will refuse to use it?

My point is that walking away without a deal takes us out of all of these areas of cooperation, and therefore isn't "easy peasy". Fifty-five of these areas of cooperation exist, and our involvement in them officially ends if we leave without a deal. Those who advocate "just walking away" are reckless vandals. Thankfully, there isn't a majority of these idiots in parliament and I don't think it will be allowed to happen.

[Quickenthetempo]

My argument to that would be something this complex shouldn't be decided based on the vast majority not having enough knowledge about what it actually involves.

Which is why I reluctantly don't want anymore referendums and acknowledge that we probably have to go for Mays deal*

*but I'd take another referendum over a "No Deal" 100% of the time.

What about No deal then we get a lot better deal than Mays in a 1 to 2 years time?

[Lancasterclaret]

I know the counterargument is "it's only for 5 years" but the same applies to a GE; who could possibly have enough knowledge to vote sensibly across that many policy areas?

It is! I tend to glance at the various manifestos but I'm well aware that is probably more than most do!

[Lancasterclaret]

What about No deal then we get a lot better deal than Mays in a 1 to 2 years time?

Why would we?

[nil_desperandum]

What about No deal then we get a lot better deal than Mays in a 1 to 2 years time?

So what do we do for the next 2 years whilst we are outside all these arrangements / agreements and effectively paralysed in many everyday things that we take for granted?
Why would the EU want a crippled country back?
Maybe what you mean is revoke Article 50 now, and tell the EU that there will be 2 years of hard negotiations during which we will prepare PROPERLY for a No deal, and if we don't get the deal that we would like from the EU in that 2 years then we'll have a properly "managed" no deal. (Though technically there's no such thing as a "managed no deal".)

[Quickenthetempo]

So what do we do for the next 2 years whilst we are outside all these arrangements / agreements and effectively paralysed in many everyday things that we take for granted?
Why would the EU want a crippled country back?
Maybe what you mean is revoke Article 50 now, and tell the EU that there will be 2 years of hard negotiations during which we will prepare PROPERLY for a No deal, and if we don't get the deal that we would like from the EU in that 2 years then we'll have a properly "managed" no deal. (Though technically there's no such thing as a "managed no deal".)

Crippled? We're in a far better position than EU country bar Germany.
France was going bankrupt before the country was rioting. How does it come back from 6 weeks worth?

Basic deals could be done more or less straightaway.

[AndrewJB]

What about No deal then we get a lot better deal than Mays in a 1 to 2 years time?

Would you agree with huge tax rises on the rich during that time period in order to ensure nobody out of work, sick, old, young, or poor suffered during that two years?

[Quickenthetempo]

Would you agree with huge tax rises on the rich during that time period in order to ensure nobody out of work, sick, old, young, or poor suffered during that two years?

It wouldn't bother me as I'm not rich but seeing as most company bosses I speak too can't get enough people in for the jobs they need, I would be surprised if there was mass job losses. Especially as all the foreigners are leaving on 29th March (allegedly)

[thatdberight]

Would you agree with huge tax rises on the rich during that time period in order to ensure nobody out of work, sick, old, young, or poor suffered during that two years?

And to think a yes/no answer on Brexit is criticised for being too simplistic...

[AndrewJB]

And to think a yes/no answer on Brexit is criticised for being too simplistic...

I was just curious to see how 'all in it together' we all are.

[Quickenthetempo]

I was just curious to see how 'all in it together' we all are.

The country has always been divided or we would be ruled by a centrist party.

[nil_desperandum]

Crippled? We're in a far better position than EU country bar Germany.
France was going bankrupt before the country was rioting. How does it come back from 6 weeks worth?

Basic deals could be done more or less straightaway.

Ah, so you're not in favour of "no deal" then.
And, I didn't say that we are currently crippled, my implication was that if we have no deals with the EU for 2 years then we'll be crippled. No flights for a start and no agreements on borders / security etc. In fact as someone else posted: issues in 55 key areas that would be unresolved.
It's strange that when pressed on it so many "no dealers" actually do want deals to be done.
And let's not forget that many of the arrangements / agreements we currently have with the US and other countries are arranged via the EU, and they need to be renegotiated as well.

[thatdberight]

I was just curious to see how 'all in it together' we all are.

We are. Within bounds. In all but a completely Marxist society, that's the case. And in a Marxist society those at the top can't appear in public because they're p***ing themselves 24/7 that anybody bought that. Then we talk about the bounds. And it's very complicated. And yes, clearly, some people are further along the "in it together" scale than others; but it's not binary.

[Quickenthetempo]

Ah, so you're not in favour of "no deal" then.
And, I didn't say that we are currently crippled, my implication was that if we have no deals with the EU for 2 years then we'll be crippled. No flights for a start and no agreements on borders / security etc. In fact as someone else posted: issues in 55 key areas that would be unresolved.
It's strange that when pressed on it so many "no dealers" actually do want deals to be done.
And let's not forget that many of the arrangements / agreements we currently have with the US and other countries are arranged via the EU, and they need to be renegotiated as well.

I presume we have some sort of deal we every country in the world. I don't want us to sign a deal we have to pay 56m a week for or have open borders for no.

[Caballo]

nil, can I ask if you genuinely believe your oft trotted out ' no flights' line?

[aggi]

$1,000,000,000,000 of assets in the banking sector moved out of the UK due to Brexit
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/07/inve ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[aggi]

nil, can I ask if you genuinely believe your oft trotted out ' no flights' line?

There isn't really anything to believe, if there was a true 'no deal' then planes wouldn't be flying.

It's more an illustration of how ludicrous the no deal stance is as it's nearly always caveated with things like "of course there'd be a deal on flights".

[Quickenthetempo]

There isn't really anything to believe, if there was a true 'no deal' then planes wouldn't be flying.

It's more an illustration of how ludicrous the no deal stance is as it's nearly always caveated with things like "of course there'd be a deal on flights".

We've been through this many times and the conclusion has always been every airline company in Europe would go bust within two weeks, as they all operate on 2% profit or thereabouts.

[dsr]

There isn't really anything to believe, if there was a true 'no deal' then planes wouldn't be flying.

It's more an illustration of how ludicrous the no deal stance is as it's nearly always caveated with things like "of course there'd be a deal on flights".

So since all parties have already agreed that current arrangements will extend to at least December 2019, does that mean that all threat of "no deal" has gone and Lancaster can stop worrying?

[nil_desperandum]

nil, can I ask if you genuinely believe your oft trotted out ' no flights' line?

Well if there's no deal, then by definition yes.
But I've always said that there will either be a deal of sorts or no brexit. There has to be - flights won't be allowed to be grounded.
The EU have known this from the outset, hence May looking particularly stupid when she has said no deal is better than a bad deal. Now of course she's changed and she's saying it's her deal, or possibly no brexit, - so she is basically now admitting that no deal has never been on the cards.

[Devils_Advocate]

And there's still people, even on this board like Jakub who think we can (and should) just sever ties with them completely and have no arrangements. Why dont you spend your time trying to educate them a little as it would be better spent that way

[aggi]

Well that's a shocker:

The British government has accepted that a company awarded a contract to provide ferry services in the event of a no-deal Brexit will be unable to deliver them before late April, several weeks after the UK is due to leave the EU.

[thatdberight]

Well that's a shocker:

The British government has accepted that a company awarded a contract to provide ferry services in the event of a no-deal Brexit will be unable to deliver them before late April, several weeks after the UK is due to leave the EU.

Because;
1) Brexit is a 1-day thing only
2) That contractor had more than 10% of the overall awards

[Lancasterclaret]

But what % of the freight would it pick up though?

My reading of the three bids suggest that the three companies can only take 10% of the Dover-Calais trade, and with DFDS being bigger than Brittany Ferries, which in turn is a lot bigger than Seabourne Freight suggests that Seabourne will probably take less than 1% of the need.

I mean, that before you go into the details of profitability and when it would be ready.

[aggi]

Because;
1) Brexit is a 1-day thing only
2) That contractor had more than 10% of the overall awards

But this ferry deal was particularly to mitigate the disruption straight after a no-deal Brexit. As time wears on you'd expect deals to be made, processes streamlined, etc and less requirement for an emergency ferry service.

If they'd announced when the deal was struck that it wasn't going to come into force until a month after Brexit then fair enough, maybe they'd planned that, but there was no suggestion that was the case until today.

[thatdberight]

But this ferry deal was particularly to mitigate the disruption straight after a no-deal Brexit. As time wears on you'd expect deals to be made, processes streamlined, etc and less requirement for an emergency ferry service.

If they'd announced when the deal was struck that it wasn't going to come into force until a month after Brexit then fair enough, maybe they'd planned that, but there was no suggestion that was the case until today.

I'm not disagreeing this deal looks off. I agreed above when somebody else said it was "dubious". For the reasons you're mentioning now. I just think this isn't a "Ta-daa!" piece of news on this story.

[aggi]

I'm not disagreeing this deal looks off. I agreed above when somebody else said it was "dubious". For the reasons you're mentioning now. I just think this isn't a "Ta-daa!" piece of news on this story.

It wouldn't have been if it hadn't been for all the insistence that it would be ready. If they'd just shown a bit of honesty initially then it wouldn't have all blown up. Instead the contract award went the other way:

"The Department for Transport has awarded a contract to Seaborne Freight (UK) Ltd for the supply of additional freight capacity on ferry services between England and Belgium in order to minimise the potential disruption of trade across the Short Straits in the event that the UK leaves the EU without an agreement.

"The ferry services under the contracts are to be operational by March 29."

[aggi]

And the contract has now been terminated.

[Lancasterclaret]

Just reinforces the case that we are completely unprepared for a "No Deal" and we need to take that option of the table.

Realism boys and girls, smacking you in the balls every single day

[Loyalclaret]

Failing Grayling’s incompetence again