Vydra / McNeill

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burnley007
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Vydra / McNeill

Post by burnley007 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:39 pm

What a difference between these two.
Is it just a confidence thing? Or have we bought a total lemon?

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Hedontplayforyou » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:55 pm

On the topic of Vydra, I’ve heard a lot of talk of how bad he was today...can anyone shed any light on this?

Is it due to lack of match sharpness ?
Is he just not good enough?

Discuss

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by RVclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:57 pm

Thought Vydra did okay to say he’s hardly played for the past few months.

His movement caused them most problems (see both penalties) but he also lacked poise at times.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Cleveleys_claret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:00 pm

Whenever I have seen Vydra in the past he is a link up player between Attack and Midfield. When he plays with a midfield where Defour is either like an extra centre-half collecting the ball or Hendrick who today was absolutely shocking he has little chance of dropping into the hole to collect the ball. Also McNeil today seemed to try to operate in that space meaning Vydra was probably higher up than he usually would want to be. Not writing him off but he seems another signing that just doesn't seem to be able to operate in our system which doesn't look like changing anytime soon in matches like this
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Lord Beamish » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:06 pm

I thought Vydra was just rusty. A few times we missed giving him the right ball, too.
He won two Penalties as well.
Last edited by Lord Beamish on Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:09 pm

You don't become the Championship top goalscorer, if you're bonk. You need to know where the onion bag is.

From what I saw of him in the Championship, as mentioned, he's a link up play between midfield and attack, but he's also an 'in the right place at the right time' kind of player. But for that, we need to have the ball on the ground in the area more, as opposed to it being lumped.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by conyoviejo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:09 pm

Lord Beamish wrote:I though Vydra was just rusty. A few times we missed giving him the right ball, too.
He won two Penalties as well.
He just doesn't look the part to me Lord ..

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:09 pm

Movement was decent, snatched at his few half chances which is no surprise given the fact he never plays. Is that us winning every game he has started ?

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by burnley007 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:11 pm

Not sure How he's going to get a place in the first XI

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:11 pm

burnley007 wrote:Not sure How he's going to get a place in the first XI
With Wood and Barnes upfront, I think he'll struggle. But that's a good thing - because those 2 are playing well.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by RVclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:12 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Movement was decent, snatched at his few half chances which is no surprise given the fact he never plays. Is that us winning every game he has started ?
3 out of 4 he’s started (West Ham away being the one we lost).
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by ClaretTony » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:13 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:Is that us winning every game he has started ?
No - started at both Burton and West Ham
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:16 pm

He needs a few games. He was busy enough and wasn't helped with Vokes having an off day. Missed a couple of decent chances but I'd me more worried if he didn't get in position to miss them
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by The Enclosure » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:21 pm

He wears gloves, he will not do.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by beddie » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:24 pm

Different opinions. I don't think Vydra works hard enough. Looked lazy at times. In his defence he got into the box on both ocassions to win the two penalties and that's the reason why we haven't been getting them previously. Time will tell if he gets more opportunities.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:28 pm

He looks very much a confidence player to me. We'll see a different striker if he can get a run in the side and bag a few. Doubt he'll get that opportunity though

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Spiral » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:28 pm

Drifts between Premier League player and Conference North player within a single dribble. Impressive feat, that. The kind of player that relies on partnerships because he's got pace and a fairly quick football mind.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Guller Bull » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:30 pm

Re Vydra - There was a couple of moments where he looked a class above anything that we normally do - One flick in particular.

I would love to see him and Barnes together.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by CoolClaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:32 pm

Vydra is who won us the game with his movement getting fouled for the penalty....
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by brigante » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:34 pm

Spiral wrote:Drifts between Premier League player and Conference North player within a single dribble. Impressive feat, that. The kind of player that relies on partnerships because he's got pace and a fairly quick football mind.
This. I think the extent to which our resurgence upfront appears to be due to the improving partnership between Wood and Barnes is under appreciated.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by longsidetrumpet » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:37 pm

Dyche looked pretty exasperated with Vydra first half judging from his body language and turns to Woan/Loughlan (view from BLS). Mind you they didn't look too impressed with Defour either first 45, shouting to him to get on the ball

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by SalisburyClaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:41 pm

Great movement from Vydra today, it was the main difference between the sides and ultimately won us the game. Looked a bit rusty at times but there’s a good player in there that a bit of confidence should bring out
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by joey13 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:46 pm

And people still question who signed him, lol

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by jedi_master » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:56 pm

He’s not impressed me as yet, thought he was poor today.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by AlargeClaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:02 pm

He looked ok movement wise and of course win the pens ,something our team of leaden and lumpen slow boats can rarely excel at . Having said that at times he’s deceptively slow, he was outpaced by the centre half on 2 occasions I think .

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by ten bellies » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 pm

I thought Vydra did ok. Good movement, though his touch, like several other Burnley players, let him down at crucial times. He will get better with game time. And he won (2) 1 penalty.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Burnleyareback2 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:06 pm

conyoviejo wrote:He just doesn't look the part to me Lord ..
Thought he looked lazy at times, not chasing scraps etc

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Walt » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm

Bit harsh to judge any long term impact for Vydra he's barely played recently.

Don't see how a footballer should be expected to play and be amazing after sitting on his backside for weeks.

1st day back at work after 2 weeks off I'm rusty and I've done same job for 15 years. Day 2 better and by 3 I'm back on it.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by KlyBfc » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:15 pm

He wasn’t great today but then the team weren’t. Vokes lost the battle in the air and we struggled to create many openings through the middle, restricting him. However i haven’t seen in any of the games, including the ones he’s been good in (olympiakos and Bournemouth), anything that tells me he is a number 10 and able to link play between midfield and strikers at the level we require. Cardiff and West Ham away highlighted this (zero help
In us keeping the ball or in defensive shape).
In the box he comes alive a little and his movement is that of a goalscorer (hence the penalty today and goals he’s scored ) but in this fabled number 10 roll or as link not a chance IMO.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Prefeot » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:30 pm

For for me I have been hearing for weeks on this board “why wont he play Vydra” . I was excited to hear he was in the starting 11. What a total disappointment. He had a chance today to shine and show the fans and the manager what he can do. He bottled it imo. Not for me I’m afraid, move on. McNeill the total antithesis to that .... he grows in confidence and stature every outing, if Pope was the find of last season McNeill is the find of this season.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by clarethomer » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:36 pm

He needs a run in the side.

He earned our 2 best opportunities to score today. He has some pace and I think had McNeil played on the left for the first 60 mins, we would have seen more from Vydra.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by warksclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:50 pm

Don't write Vydra off-he's hardly had a chance. Think he has started in 4 games and has scored two goals and earned two penalties in his few outings

Remember thinking Austin was a cart horse when he started then he became an awesome striker
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by piston broke » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:53 pm

McNeil was superb behind our front two. Now they have to learn to make the runs for him to feed them in.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:04 pm

Prefeot wrote:For for me I have been hearing for weeks on this board “why wont he play Vydra” . I was excited to hear he was in the starting 11. What a total disappointment. He had a chance today to shine and show the fans and the manager what he can do. He bottled it imo. Not for me I’m afraid, move on. McNeill the total antithesis to that .... he grows in confidence and stature every outing, if Pope was the find of last season McNeill is the find of this season.
You can't completely write a player off after 90mins. It takes time to settle and get used to the PL, new club, style of play etc. I'm not saying he'll prove to have the necessary quality for this league but unless he gets a run of games we won't see the best of him

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by FactualFrank » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:08 pm

piston broke wrote:McNeil was superb behind our front two. Now they have to learn to make the runs for him to feed them in.
Every time McNeil got the ball he looked like he could make something happen. I really hope we can tie him down to a lengthy 5 year contract because he looks so comfortable on the ball. No pressure. No panicking. Just wants the ball and tries to make something happen when he does have it.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by warksclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:43 pm

Class stands out -can remember seeing the early games of Dave Thomas and Leighton James. Became two of the best wingers I ever saw not only in a Burnley shirt but for all clubs in general of their era

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by maidenover » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:10 pm

Not sure why all the negativity on Vydra on the ratings thread. He won two penalties, (or was awarded two) because his positional sense is good, he's pretty quick thinking and he got his body between the defender and the ball. This is a skill in itself. He also set Vokes up but Sam fluffed his lines and pulled off a pretty sublime flick that the keeper got to just inside the area.

Granted he looks a bit lightweight and rusty at times but with all the changes today it was a pretty disjointed team performance. I think he offers something different even if its just from the bench.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by claretspice » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:16 pm

Vydra did OK today - he was rusty and a bit untidy as a result, and his touch was heavier than he would like. He bungled a couple of opportunities to play in colleagues and he missed one tough chance (header) and one very good chance (found at the back post, snatched at shot and hit the side netting). But he won one penalty with an excellent run and to all intents and purposes won a second penalty with a similarly excellent run until VAR dubiously intervened. He also appeared to be denied a goal after a superb flick over the centre back when the keeper appeared to handle outside the area (although I haven't seen it again), and laid on a good chance for Vokes with a smart knock-down in the first half. That's not a bad afternoon's work all told.

McNeil didn't do badly, but the difference in marks between him and Vydra, and more starkly between him and Hendrick, is a bit OTT in my view. McNeil did OK, but he again missed a good chance, drifted in and out of the game a bit, took the wrong option a few times (including trying to go alone when teammates were better placed), and fluffed a couple of decent chances to play teammates in. That's not to be critical of McNeil - he deserves credit for trying things, and he was playing in an unfamiliar role today, and he's still learning masssively - but more to highlight that, as seems to be the way of things, there are one or two players being singled out for over the top criticism. I totally understand that the goodwill towards McNeil as a youngster coming through and making a terrific impact will give him a honeymoon period, and I'm all in favour of that, but there should surely be a bit of perspective in the way other players are judged.
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Cubanclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:19 pm

Glad Dyche saw fit to give him the full 90 mins.
I sense him winning the two pens will not be lost on the manager either.
Maybe he’ll start getting an extra 5 mins when coming on as sub!
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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Cubanclaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:27 pm

McNeill reminds me of David Eyres.
The way he drifts in from the left flank to get on the end of crosses from the right will see him score plenty goals and he seems to be confident enough with his head as well as on the volley.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by jurek » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:43 pm

I think Vydra needs game time and by that I mean probably at least 5 or 6 games
before we can make much of an assessment as to whether he can cut it at this level.
The likelihood of him getting a good few starts is doubtful unless either Barnes or Wood gets injured.
To be fair Wood was given plenty of opportunities before his recent good run
but Dyche persisted and eventually he's started to show the sort of form he did when he first came last season.
Hopefully that form will continue for the rest of the season.
Hopefully Vydra will get his chance too but only if one of the current front two drops off badly or gets injured.

McNeil has been close to a revelation in the last few games although I think most
would agree he still has a lot to learn. He did miss a sitter today too.
He'll no doubt get a run out in the next few games too until Brady returns
and then he might be rested in some games.He needs to add strength to his game
and looks to tire easily in the second half.

Another winger seems to be Dyche's priority in the transfer market so we shall see in due course
whether someone arrives and can make it into the starting line up.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by RalphCoatesComb » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:00 pm

I kept wondering why Chris Wood was picked game after game, until today.

Whilst Vydra did OK today, he is not a Chris Wood. Which leaves the question...

Who is our best striker?

Come home JayRod !

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by CFS » Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:35 pm

Today showed that he needs to play a few mins a game just to win penalties for us.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by BabylonClaret » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:33 pm

The first pen was so soft it was embarrasing. It looked easier for him to control the ball and try a shot. I was furious he went down and couldnt believe the ref gave it.

I will be amazed if Vydra starts many games. He's not impressed me at all.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Rumbletonk » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:43 pm

BabylonClaret wrote:The first pen was so soft it was embarrasing. It looked easier for him to control the ball and try a shot. I was furious he went down and couldnt believe the ref gave it.

I will be amazed if Vydra starts many games. He's not impressed me at all.
Rubbish. Compared to some that have been given against us it was attempted muder.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Prefeot » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 pm

Rumbletonk wrote:You can't completely write a player off after 90mins. It takes time to settle and get used to the PL, new club, style of play etc. I'm not saying he'll prove to have the necessary quality for this league but unless he gets a run of games we won't see the best of him
The thing is Barnsley are League one (bog standard)..... not premier league. He offered nothing. Not for me I’m afraid, when he’s been brought in the Prem League as an impact player/late substitution he hasn’t impressed either. Totally unimpressed I’m afraid.

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Re: Vydra / McNeill

Post by Winstonswhite » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:06 pm

Can’t see Vydra lasting right long tbh. He needs a run of games but from watching Dyche and his interaction with him, he just moans constantly at him and shakes his head when he makes the most minor of errors, so there’s no chance of him starting in the league any time soon.

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