Colne to Skipton line decision soon

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:09 pm

Transpennine wrote:This is only at the feasibility stage. In terms of costs, the feasibility will always show the lowest possible cost of the scheme and will focus on a) is it possible? b) what are the benefits? If they were to include a realistic figure at this stage it would never be able to gain the political support required. You could probably treble that £100m figure by the time it ever came to the construction phase.

So let's say it's going to cost 300 million then,that's Absolute peanuts compared to,the 56billion pounds they are wasting on HS2 to save twenty minutes running time..

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:14 pm

I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it gets the go ahead how long did it take them to get a simple operation like the Tod curve back up and running?

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:33 pm

conyoviejo wrote:So let's say it's going to cost 300 million then,that's Absolute peanuts compared to,the 56billion pounds they are wasting on HS2 to save twenty minutes running time..

HS2 isn't really about saving 20mins, it's about increasing capacity as the two current east and west coast lines are full. But I get your point, everything links back to London, not much else gets a look in, that's why this is a non-starter.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:36 pm

Transpennine wrote:HS2 isn't really about saving 20mins, it's about increasing capacity as the two current east and west coast lines are full. But I get your point, everything links back to London, not much else gets a look in, that's why this is a non-starter.

I would love to see it re-open again,just for sell the SELRAP supporters who have campaigned for it to re-Open for many years,but I would think it will be a non starter knowing where all the money goes to.. (London) ..

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:45 pm

jrgbfc wrote:I'll believe it when I see it. Even if it gets the go ahead how long did it take them to get a simple operation like the Tod curve back up and running?

Tod curve was about 15 years in the making. Costs in the feasibility for that were £4.2m. I think it ended up costing nearly £9m and that was for about 500m of track with no major infrastructure requirements.
That £9m was funded by a number of stakeholders: Hyndburn, Burnley, Pendle and Lancashire Council's and a load of money from the regional growth fund, plus some private investment and some from the DfT.
Try applying that model for the Colne-Skipton link and it becomes a real challenge. The other alternative is to ask the DfT for all the cash. That's not going to happen.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:48 pm

Claretincraven wrote:Does Earby need a full station? So what do the residents of Earby or Barlick do if they want to get to a Skipton? Drive to Colne and get on a train there maybe? Or perhaps they will just drive straight to Skipton like they do now.

Over here if its smallish they just get a bus shelter, and if it cant be near the centre they just build it on the outskirts. You soon get stuff built in the gap

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:20 pm

'It does. On a completely different alignment and level to the Colne line.'

Prepare to be surprised.

sanderson370 · Post by **sanderson370** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:26 pm

been muted for years all pie in the sky. end of.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:33 pm

'pie in the sky'

So you've seen the design for the bridge then?

sanderson370 · Post by **sanderson370** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:06 pm

the all plans thankyou and funding hope this clears things up.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:09 pm

There's a meeting next week for the campaigners. Might shed some more light on it.

sanderson370 · Post by **sanderson370** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:15 pm

lord greaves keeping the dream alive that what it is.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:33 pm

sanderson370 wrote:lord greaves keeping the dream alive that what it is.

Like he did with the M65 ..

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:41 pm

Would cost a fraction of that bloody HS2 fiasco and would be a far, far better use of public money.

Fenwick · Post by **Fenwick** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:03 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Would cost a fraction of that bloody HS2 fiasco and would be a far, far better use of public money.

I totally agree, but there's no chance of it happening. I will walk naked from Colne to Skipton if it does!

Joe14 · Post by **Joe14** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:21 pm

Pipe dream

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:22 pm

Fenwick wrote:I totally agree, but there's no chance of it happening. I will walk naked from Colne to Skipton if it does!

I have saved this comment ..

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:23 pm

Fenwick wrote:I totally agree, but there's no chance of it happening. I will walk naked from Colne to Skipton if it does!

You heard it here 1st folks

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:33 pm

There is no viable business case and it will never happen. The biomass trains could use the Blackburn - Hellifield line and then down to Skipton if they needed to. There is already a train from Burnley to Leeds via Halifax. There is simply no demand for a Burnley/ Colne to Skipton/ Keighley train.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:47 pm

LS7 wrote:There is no viable business case and it will never happen. The biomass trains could use the Blackburn - Hellifield line and then down to Skipton if they needed to. There is already a train from Burnley to Leeds via Halifax. There is simply no demand for a Burnley/ Colne to Skipton/ Keighley train.

Of course there is..you ask the thousands of SELRAP members..

AlargeClaret · Post by **AlargeClaret** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:50 pm

More chance of Dave Lee Travis going to the moon and back on a 3 seater settee with an outboard motor, while the queen will regain her title of Empress of all India before they ever ok this

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:06 pm

LS7 wrote:There is no viable business case and it will never happen. The biomass trains could use the Blackburn - Hellifield line and then down to Skipton if they needed to. There is already a train from Burnley to Leeds via Halifax. There is simply no demand for a Burnley/ Colne to Skipton/ Keighley train.

A perfect summary of why this will never happen. As stated above, I suspect that when this is rejected, the biomass trains will travel via a reversal at Hellifield...

How many full buses are travelling from Burnley and Colne to Craven? That'll give an idea of the current level of demand for such a service.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:09 pm

Transpennine wrote:A perfect summary of why this will never happen. As stated above, I suspect that when this is rejected, the biomass trains will travel via a reversal at Hellifield...

How many full buses are travelling from Burnley and Colne to Craven? That'll give an idea of the current level of demand for such a service.

The more I read about this,the more I think it will happen..

Roll on the re-opening of the Colne to Skipton line..

jdrobbo · Post by **jdrobbo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:11 pm

As a matter of interest, how would you get a train across Vivary Way to connect it to the current buffer on the Colne line?

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:13 pm

How many full buses are travelling from Burnley and Colne to Craven? That'll give an idea of the current level of demand for such a service.

I don’t think it will happen because the government seems to think the economic problems in the north can be solved if only we could all just get to London more quickly.

However, there is an element of ‘build it and they will come’. You can’t just assess pent up demand by looking at buses - also look at cars making that journey - lots and lots. There is no doubt in my mind that a decent quick train service through to Skipton where there are links to the east coast main line, would be popular. I don’t think it’ll be reinstated though based purely on cost.

dushanbe · Post by **dushanbe** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:15 pm

jdrobbo wrote:As a matter of interest, how would you get a train across Vivary Way to connect it to the current buffer on the Colne line?

I’ve asked that question whilst visiting one of the SELRAP stands at some show or other. They didn’t have a clue.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:27 pm

Transpennine wrote:A perfect summary of why this will never happen. As stated above, I suspect that when this is rejected, the biomass trains will travel via a reversal at Hellifield...

How many full buses are travelling from Burnley and Colne to Craven? That'll give an idea of the current level of demand for such a service.

Plenty of us buses going to Keighley from Burnley.

The roads to West Yorkshire from Burnley are painfully slow takes around an hour for 20 odd miles of driving.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:03 am

jdrobbo wrote:As a matter of interest, how would you get a train across Vivary Way to connect it to the current buffer on the Colne line?

Just ask quickenthetempo a few concrete slabs could be craned in

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:20 am

Bosscat wrote:Just ask quickenthetempo a few concrete slabs could be craned in

Unfortunately I have no idea of the problem or solution here but finding information is hard on this thread with the experts not being much help.

1fatclaret · Post by **1fatclaret** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:07 am

: 20190110_060235.jpg (974.41 KiB) Viewed 2477 times

Yep, I can see how it would be a major feat of engineering to get the line to cross the Skipton bypass......

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:23 am

LS7 wrote:There is no viable business case and it will never happen. The biomass trains could use the Blackburn - Hellifield line and then down to Skipton if they needed to. There is already a train from Burnley to Leeds via Halifax. There is simply no demand for a Burnley/ Colne to Skipton/ Keighley train.

Look North have run stories on this, they keep highlighting the number of commuters who travel to work at the Skipton Building Society. Not sure how many more people travel from Nelson, Colne, Earby, Barlick to Skipton and beyond on top of those or if commuter trains alone make it viable.

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:24 am

Sustrans should just tarmac the old track bed and make it a cyclepath. Much cheaper and far more fun.

Richardsbfc · Post by **Richardsbfc** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:02 am

Waste of money. You can get to Skipton on x43 from colne within the hour.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:27 am

Richardsbfc wrote:Waste of money. You can get to Skipton on x43 from colne within the hour.

The main driver to the potential re-opening isn't people travelling from Colne to Skipton it is the need for additional East-West capacity for freight use. Plans to increase the frequency of higher speed passenger services on the Liverpool-Manchester-Leeds axis (with the possibility of extending electrification across the Pennines) are on hold because there are not enough available paths for additional trains. Gannow Junction to Skipton would be an almost American style railway where passenger trains have to fit in between freight services rather than having priority as they do over most of the UK network.

As for running to Hellifield and reversing there is huge dislike of 'running-around' whereby drivers have to exit their cab, uncouple the engine, back into the cab, contact the signal centre, make a couple of manoeuvrers to get to the other end of the train, get out of the cab, re-connect the engine to the train, check all the systems then contacting the signal centre again to get permission to move. All of which can take almost an hour! Health and Safety, drivers and their unions and Service providers hate run-arounds - there was a reason almost all loco hauled passenger trains have disappeared or have had a driving trailer unit added at the rear.

LS7 · Post by **LS7** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:43 am

I don’t think that avoiding a loco run-round is a sufficient business case for reopening skipton - colne

MT03ALG · Post by **MT03ALG** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:00 pm

Sproggy wrote:Yep, it's a good walk to (or from) Cafe Cargo in Foulridge. From there through to Colne it gets a bit hairy as the track is overgrown and is a swamp in places.

Edit - this is a view of the now missing bridge in Foulridge: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fo ... dex4.shtml

Definitely a bit swamp like if you walk through the mile tunnel

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Fenwick wrote:I totally agree, but there's no chance of it happening. I will walk naked from Colne to Skipton if it does!

I'll walk with you. (But at my age I'd probably be best keeping me kit on!!

)

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:19 pm

I'm quite surprised by a few people not wanting it to be honest especially as they seem to be from the areas it would benefit?
What's the reasons for not wanting it?

Billy Balfour · Post by **Billy Balfour** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:31 pm

Gives them something else to moan about, I suppose.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:39 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I'm quite surprised by a few people not wanting it to be honest especially as they seem to be from the areas it would benefit?
What's the reasons for not wanting it?

People don't like change.. It frightens them..

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:46 pm

Their new builds are built on or near the old track Quickenthetempo

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:15 pm

Loyalclaret wrote:Their new builds are built on or near the old track Quickenthetempo

That's a fair point but if the railway doesn't get built then a motorway will have to at some point as the roads from Colne to Keighley weren't designed for the amount of traffic on them, but that would need houses actually knocking down.

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:25 pm

LS7 wrote:I don’t think that avoiding a loco run-round is a sufficient business case for reopening skipton - colne

Or they could build a new short curve at Hellifield to prevent this. About 500m of track should so it.

Transpennine · Post by **Transpennine** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:I'm quite surprised by a few people not wanting it to be honest especially as they seem to be from the areas it would benefit?
What's the reasons for not wanting it?

Not sure that many are opposed to it. I'd love it to happen, but you've got to be reasistic about what's achievable in terms of producing a viable enough business case to a) gain political support and then b) somehow obtain the funding.

Maybe if there was an upcoming general election and the 3 electoral boroughs of Burnley, Pendle and Craven were all 'marginals' then that might help...
Or
Drax /Peel/ An Other wrote a check for 50% of the capital costs.

It will be interesting to see if the feasibility specifically addresses how the funding will be achieved.

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:48 pm

Transpennine wrote:Or they could build a new short curve at Hellifield to prevent this. About 500m of track should so it.

I am sure the good people of Hellifield would approve.

All those houses built on the old Auction Mart all 122 of them flattened

Dave@from_burnley · Post by **Dave@from_burnley** » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:25 pm

My memory of that line is its utterly knackered, i grew up in Foulridge and played on those tracks, well there are no tracks left tbh