Owen Jones on This Week

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:54 am

The type of person thatdberight describes would use the position of the chattering classes as a litmus test for which gang to join. Hence his assertion that in the relevant era that person could have been a blackshirt.
And a Communist

Thats the flaw mate, its doesn't stand up to historical analysis.
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Stayingup » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:56 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:But in the nicest possible way, he's not going to get through to people like you is he?

he might with people like me (ie more inclined to be friendly to Labour) but his constant attacks on people in the centre is really beginning to annoy me.
I have had great respect for some Labour politicians. Tony Benn in particular. I couks have for Jeremy Corbyn if he actually said what he really believes
The problem wuth Corbyn is that despite having some really very good ideas (dispensing wirh hospital parking fees is an example) he is not a good tactician
I wonder just how bright he actually is. You will probably know he was a joke in the commons till his spectacular rise to leader of the labour party. Still now we have about 600 jokers in the commons.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Someone needs to do a mock up of Owen Jones hanging on to a strut in cloud city while Adolf Hitler leans down and goes

"Yes Owen, I am your father"
1) I'm not saying that
2) I wish I'd just said something unnecessarily unpleasant but pithy about him - it would have been easier!
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Peebs89 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:01 am

An old one but a good one from Private Eye.

Image
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:04 am

mdd2 wrote:Ruined any important point he was trying to make in his argument and no idea what he was on about in relation to Andrew Neil and the Spectator and I think his argument about the far right -nasty nasty but far left not nasty wears a bit thin-both to me will ruin many lives if they ever get into power.

'will ruin many lives if they ever get into power''.. ffs


Do you walk around with your eyes shut?

Have you not not noticed what's been going on in the failed 'Austerity years' for minimal gain?
When the architects of this shambles realised how cr@p their basic economic understanding had been over about seven years, they both ran away never to be seen again - one of them I believe [goes by the name of Gideon] runs a free giveaway newspaper in London.

'We're all in this together'..do you believe that..has that worked well round where you live?


Can you please tell me which lives you are talking about?
How are their lives going to be ruined..please be specific..
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am

I think most of us understand the “extremists” on both sides of the political spectrum debate.
But let’s not read between the lines too much eh.
If he would have used the term Nazi instead of Blackshirt to describe Jones it would have been equally as incorrect as a historic analogy....and we wouldn’t be thinking he was trying to make some type of clever deep thoughted philosophical point.
Fact is he did not know what a blackshirt was as he proved in trying to define it.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Chobulous » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am

Peebs89 wrote:An old one but a good one from Private Eye.

Image
Andy did you not know that PI is an iniquitous Tory rag edited by a posh boy who uses it along with Have I Got News For You to pedal those pernicious Tory lies and subjugate the masses. Hislop will be first against the wall come the glorious day.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:11 am

thatdberight wrote:In a previous era, would have been a Blackshirt. An unpleasant, absolutist, "us vs them" populist.
Would you please explain clearly how he would have been a 'blackshirt' ? :?

That one really has sent my head spinning :o

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:17 am

hampsteadclaret wrote:Would you please explain clearly how he would have been a 'blackshirt' ? :?

That one really has sent my head spinning :o
Leave it Hampstead - I think you may have set up a false opposition
(That btw is a Paul Calf joke ! And for any other Steve Coogan fans out there Alan Partridge is coming back and on the BBC - he’s co- hosting an afternoon day time show !!)
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:24 am

TVC15 wrote:Fact is he did not know what a blackshirt was as he proved in trying to define it.
I'd love to engage with this bit but you still haven't shown how anything I said portrayed this lack of knowledge. I'm no expert but anyone with any education and passing interest in UK 20th century history knows the basics of Mosley, the BUF and so on.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Foreverly Claret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:25 am

Can't believe #13 was allowed on here..what a stupid thing to say .As Joey said perhaps you should have been on College Green too ! Anybody advocating violence in any circumstance should not be posting on here .
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:29 am

Chobulous..you obviously don't know much about 'Private Eye' judging by that comment. I have been reading it for about 40 years - it is still a good read imo.

It is not a Tory rag.

The essence of it is that they take the p1ss out of anyone that they think is a legitimate target - they will go for anybody...politicians of any party, Big Business, Rotten Boroughs, the Royal Family, foreign politicians, luvvies, sports personalities, TV and film people, cultural icons...plus the likes of Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, Asil Nadir, Tiny Rowlands, Sir Alan Sugar, Sir Phillip Green and all those others who occasionally need the spotlight turning on them. They go for the government whichever it is. They have over the years broken many stories which weeks and months later start to appear in the 'popular press' [who often try and claim the story as their 'latest scoop].

They occasionally get it wrong and go too far - they have paid ££££££'s in fines and legal fees...despite that the published media needs a magazine like Private Eye....sections of it each fortnight are extremely funny.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:33 am

hampsteadclaret wrote:Chobulous..you obviously don't know much about 'Private Eye' judging by that comment. I have been reading it for about 40 years - it is still a good read imo.

It is not a Tory rag.

The essence of it is that they take the p1ss out of anyone that they think is a legitimate target - they will go for anybody...politicians of any party, Big Business, Rotten Boroughs, the Royal Family, foreign politicians, luvvies, sports personalities, TV and film people, cultural icons...plus the likes of Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, Asil Nadir, Tiny Rowlands, Sir Alan Sugar, Sir Phillip Green and all those others who occasionally need the spotlight turning on them. They go for the government whichever it is. They have over the years broken many stories which weeks and months later start to appear in the 'popular press' [who often try and claim the story as their 'latest scoop].

They occasionally get it wrong and go too far - they have paid ££££££'s in fines and legal fees...despite that the published media needs a magazine like Private Eye....sections of it each fortnight are extremely funny.
He was being ironic.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Chobulous » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:47 am

hampsteadclaret wrote:Chobulous..you obviously don't know much about 'Private Eye' judging by that comment. I have been reading it for about 40 years - it is still a good read imo.

It is not a Tory rag.

The essence of it is that they take the p1ss out of anyone that they think is a legitimate target - they will go for anybody...politicians of any party, Big Business, Rotten Boroughs, the Royal Family, foreign politicians, luvvies, sports personalities, TV and film people, cultural icons...plus the likes of Murdoch, Robert Maxwell, Asil Nadir, Tiny Rowlands, Sir Alan Sugar, Sir Phillip Green and all those others who occasionally need the spotlight turning on them. They go for the government whichever it is. They have over the years broken many stories which weeks and months later start to appear in the 'popular press' [who often try and claim the story as their 'latest scoop].

They occasionally get it wrong and go too far - they have paid ££££££'s in fines and legal fees...despite that the published media needs a magazine like Private Eye....sections of it each fortnight are extremely funny.

What an almighty WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:52 am

TVC15 wrote:Leave it Hampstead - I think you may have set up a false opposition
(That btw is a Paul Calf joke ! And for any other Steve Coogan fans out there Alan Partridge is coming back and on the BBC - he’s co- hosting an afternoon day time show !!)
TVC15..I saw the 'Blackshirt' comment and replied straight away, before I read a lot of the other posts...there followed an awful lot of digging.

I don't remember what the previous spat was between Owen Jones and Andrew Neil re the Spectator...but Andrew Neil sure as hell didn't want to talk about it last night!


Chobulous...handy for you to agree with that other bloke, who did not know what a Blackshirt was.

- that's OK I can go with that :)

mdd2 ?

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Damo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:52 am

My favourite Owen Jones moment was when Hartley-Brewer made him cry

https://youtu.be/fCTGwmYr_rE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Chobulous » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:56 am

hampsteadclaret wrote:TVC15..I saw the 'Blackshirt' comment and replied straight away, before I read a lot of the other posts...there followed an awful lot of digging.

I don't remember what the previous spat was between Owen Jones and Andrew Neil re the Spectator...but Andrew Neil sure as hell didn't want to talk about it last night!


Chobulous...handy for you to agree with that other bloke, who did not know what a Blackshirt was.

- that's OK I can go with that :)

mdd2 ?
Never said I agreed with him, I said I understood the point he was trying to get across, an understanding that others failed to grasp. Understanding a point of argument isn't the same as agreeing with that point. It's moot anyway because we are in the here and now not the 1930s

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Guich » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:57 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:The specifics are important!

He's as leftie as they come, they fight the blackshirts!
I know where you're coming from Lancs and the specifics do matter. But the more extreme you become the nearer you get to the extreme nutters on the other flank.

Political viewpoints work as a circle with the extreme left and extreme right meeting at the top. In my opinion the characteristics outweigh the specifics once the ideology becomes all consuming. There is nastiness and violence at both ends, neither is more intelligent or better informed, they are both completely unwilling to respect any view that differs from their own. And they both get right on my t*ts.

Hugely simplistic I know, but who is the most famous populist, socialist, wanted everything controlled by the state and didn't like Jews? Answers on a postcard.

Politics is broken. Not just here but in many parts of the world.

Thanks God the Clarets are winning again :D

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:00 pm

thatdberight wrote:I'd love to engage with this bit but you still haven't shown how anything I said portrayed this lack of knowledge. I'm no expert but anyone with any education and passing interest in UK 20th century history knows the basics of Mosley, the BUF and so on.
You were right about one thing - you are certainly no expert.

I have an education, studied history and I know more than just the basics of Oswald M and the facist group - what I am really struggling with, however, is how you manage to connect that to a discussion on Owen Jones.

So that’s now Mosley and the right wing Mussolini facists you are comparing to Jones. Surely it’s just a tap in for your hat trick now.....Mr Adolf H.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 pm

Private Eye had a long running [pretty amusing] p!ss take of Andrew Neil back then, when he was photographed with a lissome dusky asian beauty in what looked like a Thailand bar [or Cambodia/Vietnam or wherever] - Neil was looking sexy in a white 'old man's' vest with his arm around this lady, who was half his age.

The game in each issue was to pin an amusing caption to this photo which ridiculed the ageing Lothario...this was great fun for well over 12 months, and then appeared periodically afterwards.

[the cartoons must be available somewhere, I'll have a look]

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by joey13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:02 pm

Damo wrote:My favourite Owen Jones moment was when Hartley-Brewer made him cry

https://youtu.be/fCTGwmYr_rE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She didn’t make him cry , did she !
She makes me cry
Last edited by joey13 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:04 pm

TVC15 wrote:You were right about one thing - you are certainly no expert.

I have an education, studied history and I know more than just the basics of Oswald M and the facist group - what I am really struggling with, however, is how you manage to connect that to a discussion on Owen Jones.

So that’s now Mosley and the right wing Mussolini facists you are comparing to Jones. Surely it’s just a tap in for your hat trick now.....Mr Adolf H.
The fact that you don't know that Mosley's mob were also known as Blackshirts (I have never mentioned Italian fascists) says it all. Whatever education you had; it was a waste of time.

But still, you know more than the basics. Of course you do. Quick - get Googling! Start with Cabble (sic) Street...

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by biggles » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:07 pm

he's an absolute tosser. knows a lot [talks a load of rubbish] but you wouldn't want to share a dinner table with him.
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:12 pm

thatdberight wrote:The fact that you don't know that Mosley's mob were also known as Blackshirts (I have never mentioned Italian fascists) says it all. Whatever education you had; it was a waste of time.

But still, you know more than the basics. Of course you do. Quick - get Googling! Start with Cabble (sic) Street...
You mean Mosleys “facist” mob ? They were also known as nazis....what exactly is your point ?
We are talking about the origin of the word which was the Italian facists....
I’m assuming you have heard of brownshirts and their origin ?

You are still struggling to explain your comparison of Jones to any facist group you care to google.

The simple thing is to just admit it was a ridiculous thing to say and you did not know what it meant. It will save you time and money on your internet data

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:18 pm

hampsteadclaret wrote:Private Eye had a long running [pretty amusing] p!ss take of Andrew Neil back then, when he was photographed with a lissome dusky asian beauty in what looked like a Thailand bar [or Cambodia/Vietnam or wherever] - Neil was looking sexy in a white 'old man's' vest with his arm around this lady, who was half his age.

The game in each issue was to pin an amusing caption to this photo which ridiculed the ageing Lothario...this was great fun for well over 12 months, and then appeared periodically afterwards.

[the cartoons must be available somewhere, I'll have a look]
Have you seen the ongoing spat between Andrew Neil and Nish Kumar and the Mash Report team ? Neil has been a grade one pr-ick again....he’s a complete and utter bully who cannot stand anyone standing up to him.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:18 pm

Andrew Neil being sexy..

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... PrivateEye" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:19 pm

TVC15 wrote:You mean Mosleys “facist” mob ? They were also known as nazis....what exactly is your point ?
We are talking about the origin of the word which was the Italian facists....
I’m assuming you have heard of brownshirts and their origin ?

You are still struggling to explain your comparison of Jones to any facist group you care to google.

The simple thing is to just admit it was a ridiculous thing to say and you did not know what it meant. It will save you time and money on your internet data
So now you're telling me what I meant when I said, "Blackshirts". OK. Whatever you say, then. You're "the expert".

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:26 pm

thatdberight wrote:So now you're telling me what I meant when I said, "Blackshirts". OK. Whatever you say, then. You're "the expert".
No i am not telling you what you meant when you said blackshirts. How can I know what you meant when firstly it makes zero sense and secondly you don’t appear to know yourself ?

Let’s start again - why exactly did you describe the well known left wing socialist Owen Jones as a term which has been used exclusively for far right wing facists ?

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Dy1geo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:34 pm

This Week traditionally was a place where politics was discussed in an intellectual manner and recently it is following the trend of other political programmes by lowering the standard.
Owen Jones made some relevant points last night regarding the press but like many of today’s politicians lacks the intellect to back up his points and had to divert the conversation when Andrew Neil made the point regarding the rise of the right in Europe. Not backing up a point is fairly typical in politicians these days and it is up to interviewers to probe more, for example Chukka Umanna said Brexit will cost jobs and yet the interviewer never once asked him to explain his point.
Modern politicians in the main are career ones and those of yesteryear both left and right must be turning in their graves at the standard of politicians and debate these days.
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:34 pm

TVC15 wrote:No i am not telling you what you meant when you said blackshirts. How can I know what you meant when firstly it makes zero sense and secondly you don’t appear to know yourself ?

Let’s start again - why exactly did you describe the well known left wing socialist Owen Jones as a term which has been used exclusively for far right wing facists ?
Strange, a moment ago you said I'd mentioned Italian fascists when, in fact, I didn't. Not once.

I did not describe Owen Jones as a fascist or as a "Blackshirt". Others have seen the point. They might disagree with it but they saw the point. Jones, in my view, is a narcissistic empty vessel who is an unpleasant, "them vs us" populist. In those respects, there's a similarity to the mindset of the Blackshirts (a nickname for a British fascist grouping in case you need help).

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by mdd2 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:43 pm

The not so far left made a pigs ear of it in the 70's,and Jeremy will mess up big time when he gets in. I hope he doesn't mess up and somehow those being taxed out of existence will continue to want to work and live here.
There is already a reluctance of the better paid in the NHS to do additional sessions due to the taxation system and pension funding.
Yes Austerity hasn't done much other than make our streets less safe but you only have to look around the World to see what extreme right and left do to societies.
I won't be around and neither will you Hampstead but eventually it will all implode as our democracy continues to promise people things it cannot or is unwilling to pay for-witness the mass revolt at Mrs May attempt to solve the social funding crisis-and how the National debt continues to rise despite austerity which apparently has now ended but in reality hard as life has been for those on PAYE there has hardly been austerity as debt has risen from ?900million to ?1.7 trillion in 10 years.
Oh and Happy New Year Hampstead, looks like you had no resolution to be less vitriolic or if you did it hasn't taken long to break it.
I'll go and get my tin hat now. :o

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:55 pm

thatdberight wrote:Strange, a moment ago you said I'd mentioned Italian fascists when, in fact, I didn't. Not once.

I did not describe Owen Jones as a fascist or as a "Blackshirt". Others have seen the point. They might disagree with it but they saw the point. Jones, in my view, is a narcissistic empty vessel who is an unpleasant, "them vs us" populist. In those respects, there's a similarity to the mindset of the Blackshirts (a nickname for a British fascist grouping in case you need help).
I didn’t...I said you compared him to Italian facists because that is the origin of the term you used. You now seem to be saying that it was the Oswald M facists you were referencing and not the Italian facists - kind of missing the point don’t you think ?!!

Pick a facist....any facist....it’s the same argument !

What is strange / hilarious is that you have only come up with this philosophical argument after looking up what a blackshirt meant !

Would have saved us all time and effort if you would have called him an unpleasant, odious etc Trotskyite....can you not go back and edit it please ?!!

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by joey13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:03 pm

Dy1geo wrote:This Week traditionally was a place where politics was discussed in an intellectual manner and recently it is following the trend of other political programmes by lowering the standard.
Owen Jones made some relevant points last night regarding the press but like many of today’s politicians lacks the intellect to back up his points and had to divert the conversation when Andrew Neil made the point regarding the rise of the right in Europe. Not backing up a point is fairly typical in politicians these days and it is up to interviewers to probe more, for example Chukka Umanna said Brexit will cost jobs and yet the interviewer never once asked him to explain his point.
Modern politicians in the main are career ones and those of yesteryear both left and right must be turning in their graves at the standard of politicians and debate these days.
Owen Jones isn’t a politician, or a blackshirt .

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:04 pm

TVC15 wrote:I didn’t...I said you compared him to Italian facists because that is the origin of the term you used. You now seem to be saying that it was the Oswald M facists you were referencing and not the Italian facists - kind of missing the point don’t you think ?!!

Pick a facist....any facist....it’s the same argument !

What is strange / hilarious is that you have only come up with this philosophical argument after looking up what a blackshirt meant !

Would have saved us all time and effort if you would have called him an unpleasant, odious etc Trotskyite....can you not go back and edit it please ?!!
When did I look anything up? What is that you believe I meant when I said "Blackshirt"? Someone who literally wears black shirts? Jones is just an opportunistic populist. This era's best chance of getting noticed is the political view he espouses. In another era, it wouldn't have been. If I'd originally said, "Owen Jones is a Blackshirt", I'd understand your confusion at my view - because he's so obviously not. But I didn't.

Your inability to see how time contextualises political thought and action shows you may (though not on the evidence of this debate) know some facts but that's as far as it goes
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:06 pm

joey13 wrote:Owen Jones isn’t a politician, or a blackshirt .
I never said he was a Blackshirt, and neither has anyone else.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:14 pm

thatdberight wrote:I never said he was a Blackshirt, and neither has anyone else.
Technically he is right - what he said was :
“In a previous era, would have been a Blackshirt”

So what he is saying that in a previous era this left wing socialist self important mouth piece would have been a nazi / facist extremist as it would have given him a good platform to get across his views

So....nothing to see here !!

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by burnleymik » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:20 pm

joey13 wrote:Owen Jones isn’t a politician, or a blackshirt .
or a journalist.
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Dy1geo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:25 pm

joey13 wrote:Owen Jones isn’t a politician, or a blackshirt .
Owen Jones makes his living as a “political journalist” and expresses his own political views in various spheres, the point I was making is that he along with many others from both the right and left have to resort to sloganising as they lack the intellect to engage in a deep political debate.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:28 pm

TVC15 wrote:Technically he is right - what he said was :
“In a previous era, would have been a Blackshirt”

So what he is saying that in a previous era this left wing socialist self important mouth piece would have been a nazi / facist extremist as it would have given him a good platform to get across his views

So....nothing to see here !!
That's exactly what I said. Jones is simply a product of his era. In this era, this sort of agitator gets most attention and leverage by taking the stance he does. In the 1930s, it would have been different.

You clearly disagree and believe that, whatever era he'd been born into, there's something so ingrained in the soul of Owen Jones that he'd have espoused exactly the same views he does today. Fair enough.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by AndrewJB » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:46 pm

Dy1geo wrote:This Week traditionally was a place where politics was discussed in an intellectual manner and recently it is following the trend of other political programmes by lowering the standard.
Owen Jones made some relevant points last night regarding the press but like many of today’s politicians lacks the intellect to back up his points and had to divert the conversation when Andrew Neil made the point regarding the rise of the right in Europe. Not backing up a point is fairly typical in politicians these days and it is up to interviewers to probe more, for example Chukka Umanna said Brexit will cost jobs and yet the interviewer never once asked him to explain his point.
Modern politicians in the main are career ones and those of yesteryear both left and right must be turning in their graves at the standard of politicians and debate these days.
I found that part of the interview frustrating too. All he had to do is point out to Neil that those countries have PR systems in addition to their own right wing media. And this is now driven through social media as well.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned it, but Jones' spat with Neil started with Carole Cadwalldr's Guardian expose of Arron Banks' £8 Million donation to Vote Leave during the referendum (a lot of questions around where it came from), and Neil's response in smearing her over it (which I believe the Spectator, of which he's the chairman, also did).

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Lancasterclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:49 pm

Which he still hasn't apologised for.

I quite like Andrew Neil, but he's not the only BBC journalist whose found it very hard to navigate Brexit with impartiality.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by TVC15 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:50 pm

thatdberight wrote:That's exactly what I said. Jones is simply a product of his era. In this era, this sort of agitator gets most attention and leverage by taking the stance he does. In the 1930s, it would have been different.

You clearly disagree and believe that, whatever era he'd been born into, there's something so ingrained in the soul of Owen Jones that he'd have espoused exactly the same views he does today. Fair enough.
You really are overthinking it.
Its a pretty logical view to think that someone with deep routed socialist views like Owen Jones on subjects such as welfare, austerity, poverty etc would have those same / similar views in any era.
In the same way I would not expect Tommy Robinson to be stood beside Martin Luther King fighting for black rights if he would have been around in that era.
Let’s call it a day now....life’s too short

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by mdd2 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:51 pm

Thanks for the heads up Andrew38 on that.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by thatdberight » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:10 pm

TVC15 wrote: Let’s call it a day now....life’s too short
... and yet it seems almost interminable when you get into this sort of debate :D

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by ClaretAndJew » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:12 pm

Life is the longest thing any of us will ever do

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 pm

mdd2..POST 81...Oh and Happy New Year Hampstead, looks like you had no resolution to be less vitriolic or if you did it hasn't taken long to break it.

Could you please indicate clearly where I was vitriolic?

You say..'and how the National debt continues to rise despite austerity which apparently has now ended but in reality hard as life has been for those on PAYE there has hardly been austerity as debt has risen from ?900million to ?1.7 trillion in 10 years..'

You must have missed that where I said..' When the architects of this shambles realised how cr@p their basic economic understanding had been over about seven years,..

Of course the 'Austerity Project' failed. It was doomed from the first minute it was put in place - basic Economics as I suggested.

When an economy is struggling and floundering and it's been in a double-dip recession [nearly triple] and real output has fallen about 7%, the last thing you do is kill it with deflationary policies [Austerity] - an average ability GCSE student would have told Gideon that much. The UK economy in 2010 needed a big fat lifebelt chucking at it, not a massive leadweight attaching to it. National demand was seriously curtailed by 'austerity' so no surprise that taxation revenues went down and government expenditure went up [on the wrong things!] so pushing up the National Debt. Totally inappropriate policy but of course the incoming Cameron/Osborne crew were never going to reflate the UK economy, after the banking crisis, credit crunch and serious recessions which followed. That would be anathema for them, EVEN IF IT WAS THE CORRECT THING TO DO.

Earlier, in response to something you said I asked you..

Can you please tell me which lives you are talking about?
How are their lives going to be ruined..please be specific..?

You failed to answer these questions other than mumbling something vague and irrelevant...have another go.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by joey13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:19 pm

burnleymik wrote:or a journalist.
I think you’ll find he makes a good living at being a journalist
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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by hampsteadclaret » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:29 pm

One of the smartest, informed, articulate journalists around and not afraid to say inconvenient things.

I can well understand how OJ would get up the nose of plenty on here, good for him.

However..his style, his approach, his stubbornness, does sometimes grate with me.
If he reigned it in a bit and calmed down, he would be more effective...he's young, this will improve.

- I wish some telly savvy friend of his, would take him to one side and give him some training, a few tips.

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by joey13 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:33 pm

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Re: Owen Jones on This Week

Post by Giftonsnoidea » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Comes across like he has read about a lot of political history and then Regurgitates it like he was there and involved as an impartial observer.

For that reason i find his appearances very irritating to watch, done well for himself though obviously.

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