Anyone feel a tinge of sympathy for Theresa May ?

[PensansClaret]

The whole of Parliament should hang their heads in shame and Corbyn's abasement should be the deepest. His policy has been "whatever the deal we will vote against it, regardless." His line has been "let's have a GE so we can get into power and renegotiate". What utter guff. No-one can negotiate with Juncker and Co because they aren't interested, that is the truth of it. We have seen the slimy underbelly of Parliament in the last 2 years, with Bercow and Grieve openly plotting to subvert the outcome of the referendum, JRM and Co looking for a pure Brexit that just isn't possible, BoJo being BoJo. They are all an utter disgrace.

[PensansClaret]

Well said Chobulous. You’ve got it spot on

[Lancasterclaret]

Very hard to disagree with Cholobous there.

Not one of them he has mentioned have put what is best for the country ahead of what is best for them.

And its a bit unfair on the EU. The four freedoms were not up for negotiation and the fact that people still think they are is a catastrophic failure of understanding. I can understand that at our level, but not at an MPs level.

[LeadBelly]

Just a tinge -as a human being.
As a politician/PM/leader, none at all. She's tried too hard to appease everybody and ended up p***ing off just about every faction. A very bad strategic error.

[Test User]

The whole of Parliament should hang their heads in shame and Corbyn's abasement should be the deepest. His policy has been "whatever the deal we will vote against it, regardless." His line has been "let's have a GE so we can get into power and renegotiate". What utter guff. No-one can negotiate with Juncker and Co because they aren't interested, that is the truth of it. We have seen the slimy underbelly of Parliament in the last 2 years, with Bercow and Grieve openly plotting to subvert the outcome of the referendum, JRM and Co looking for a pure Brexit that just isn't possible, BoJo being BoJo. They are all an utter disgrace.

I don't think it's fair to say that Junker and Co aren't interested in negotiating when it was our side that refused to even bother for the best part of two years, and then when we decided to turn up to negotiations we demanded more than the EU were willing to concede.

What is happening now is basically what the pro-EU side were telling everyone was going to happen: chaos, incompetence, and nothing like what we were promised from Vote Leave. But as is often the case the most informed side lost and then when their better-informed warnings that you are being played all come true your lot bitch and cry about it and take no responsibility at all for your vote.

Remainers warned you this would be a disaster. Remainers warned you that in negotiations we would be at a massive disadvantage and that the EU could basically dictate terms. But you refused to listen. This mess is your ******* fault.

[summitclaret]

She keeps going back to the EU. They will keep being unhelpful. However when the establishment gets it's way and there is another referundum, leave will win again because the EU had been shown up for what it is. A french/ German self- serving mafia like organisation.

[Chobulous]

I don't think it's fair to say that Junker and Co aren't interested in negotiating when it was our side that refused to even bother for the best part of two years, and then when we decided to turn up to negotiations we demanded more than the EU were willing to concede.

What is happening now is basically what the pro-EU side were telling everyone was going to happen: chaos, incompetence, and nothing like what we were promised from Vote Leave. But as is often the case the most informed side lost and then when their better-informed warnings that you are being played all come true your lot bitch and cry about it and take no responsibility at all for your vote.

Remainers warned you this would be a disaster. Remainers warned you that in negotiations we would be at a massive disadvantage and that the EU could basically dictate terms. But you refused to listen. This mess is your ******* fault.

Ant therein you have it, the quintessence of being a remainer, ineffable smugness. The truth is that those on the remain side had done everything to undermine our negotiating position right from the word go. It is a self fulfilling prophecy because remainers have done everything possible tp make it so. They are just as culpable as anyone else in this whole sorry saga. It might have been a bad result but from that point we should have pulled together as a country to ensure we achieved the best possible outcome. What did we get, well we got what we have today.

[Lancasterclaret]

Surprised its taken so long to be honest.

[Lancasterclaret]

Is it really "smugness" to tell people who have been wrong since Day 1 that they are still wrong on the last day though?

The Brexit debate has had two plus years to prove the remainers wrong, and has failed completely. You know it has because its now accepted by everyone that we are going to take a hit.

[houseboy]

A few weeks ago I said I would post no more on any Brexit related thread and I intend to stick to that but with what is happening today I thought one more post would be fine (to which I will not reply or get involved in an argument as there has been far too much of that).

It is simply to say that if all this resulted in another referendum it would be an unmitigated disaster and an afront to democracy.

Why?

Apart from the fact that we have already had a 'peoples vote' and reversing that without even knowing the consequences of the first one would be wholly wrong there is another point that I have never seen mentioned anywhere (it might have been but I am unaware of it) and that is simply that 2 years ago we had a vote and the leavers (of which I am one) won with a small but clear majority. In the interim we have (the leavers that is) sat back and watched patiently waiting for it to happen and have done nothing more because we had no need to, we won. In the same time we have had 2 years of unrelenting lies, half truths, deception and project fear gone into overdrive from the remainers. All based on nothing more than various assumptions, many of which have been countered by equally qualified people.

In short if we had a second referendum it would be massively skewed toward the remainers because they have effectively had 2 years of non-stop campaigning against opposition that has done nothing more than await the implimentation of their democratic decision.

Whatever happens in the coming days or weeks another referendum must never be on the cards or demcoracy will be dead and, I believe, we will see civil unrest not seen for many a long year in this country.

My last post on this.

[dsr]

Remainers warned you this would be a disaster. Remainers warned you that in negotiations we would be at a massive disadvantage and that the EU could basically dictate terms. But you refused to listen. This mess is your ******* fault.

That's the point of leaving, frankly. The idea that we ought to be a member of the EU because the EU is a thoroughly nasty organisation that will use all its power to disadvantage us as much as possible, I can accept. The idea that that is a good reason to be in it, I will not accept. It is the sort of organisation we are better off out of; and if it means that the price of German cars goes through the roof and we have to buy British-made ones, so be it.

When the Scottish referendum happened, where were the doomsayers threatening that Scotland couldn't survive because the UK would impose punitive terms? There weren't any, because it was universally assumed that the UK would be fair. Certainly there was no threat of export barriers and hard borders.

[Test User]

Ant therein you have it, the quintessence of being a remainer, ineffable smugness. The truth is that those on the remain side had done everything to undermine our negotiating position right from the word go. It is a self fulfilling prophecy because remainers have done everything possible tp make it so. They are just as culpable as anyone else in this whole sorry saga. It might have been a bad result but from that point we should have pulled together as a country to ensure we achieved the best possible outcome. What did we get, well we got what we have today.

Remainers have done **** all aside from demand that parliament have a say, which is the whole ******* point of our democracy and one of the key points of the Leave argument int he first place.

I'm a Remainer, absolutely, but this isn't smugness, this is anger at the people who voted for this not taking any respectability for it. You were warned by Remainers that Leave were lying to you when they said that it would all be a piece of **** and we'd get a great deal but you called us fearmongerers.

We ******* warned you, repeatedly, and you ignored us just as many times. When Leave won every one of your leaders did a ******* runner by quitting and yet you still blame Remainers. When the Remainer PM quit not a single ******* one of you stepped up to take his job so it was left to another Remainer to take the reins of this galloping, spasticated donkey, and yet you still blame Remainers.

This is entirely the fault of Leave voters for believing the lies, the Leave campaigners for lying to rubes, and for the Leave leaders for being ******* absent this whole ******* time.

So **** you and every one of you arseholes for this mess, this is your fault so take some ******* responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for your stupid decisions.

[Test User]

So many asterisks, who wants to bet that's what the replies will be about?

[summitclaret]

Test over. Time to go?

[ClaretLoup]

After repeatedly publicly stating that there would be no General Election in 2017 she went and called one to provide the country with "strong and stable" government. Instead of that we have a weak and insipid Government and one that has been held to ransom by the DUP, the political wing for the 17th Century, and also considerably strengthened Corbyn's position in the Labour Party and consolidated the extremist takeover. She continues to attack the Labour Party in order to deflect attention form her own position, when she could have reached out to the more sensible moderate element to obtain a consensus in Parliament. The contrived Pantomime scene in Parliament before Christmas was in unspeakably poor taste. She seems unable to form a Cabinet for any length of time and provide any coherent leadership in her own party. Now in order to get her deal through she threatens everyone on the one hand with No Deal or on the other we won't come out of the EU at all.

She has been pathetic and as others have pointed out cutting the police force has been a disaster. Her decision making is poor, her leadership is non existent and it looks like her negotiating skills are pretty poor also.

[TVC15]

That's the point of leaving, frankly. The idea that we ought to be a member of the EU because the EU is a thoroughly nasty organisation that will use all its power to disadvantage us as much as possible, I can accept. The idea that that is a good reason to be in it, I will not accept. It is the sort of organisation we are better off out of; and if it means that the price of German cars goes through the roof and we have to buy British-made ones, so be it.

When the Scottish referendum happened, where were the doomsayers threatening that Scotland couldn't survive because the UK would impose punitive terms? There weren't any, because it was universally assumed that the UK would be fair. Certainly there was no threat of export barriers and hard borders.

1) which “British” cars are you referring to exactly ? Are we all going to driving round in Morgans ?
2) Did you actually listen to any of the Scottish independence debate ? The campaign against independence was fundamentally about how Scotland could not survive economically without the help of the UK and the threats about what would happen if they left.

[Chobulous]

. When Leave won every one of your leaders did a ******* runner by quitting and yet you still blame Remainers. When the Remainer PM quit not a single ******* one of you stepped up to take his job so it was left to another Remainer to take the reins of this galloping, spasticated donkey, and yet you still blame Remainers.

This is entirely the fault of Leave voters for believing the lies, the Leave campaigners for lying to rubes, and for the Leave leaders for being ******* absent this whole ******* time.

So **** you and every one of you arseholes for this mess, this is your fault so take some ******* responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for your stupid decisions.

Cameron was a remainer, remind me who quit first. The asterisk is above the 8

[Woodleyclaret]

A plastic Thather.The Tories got us into this mess back in the Seventies with Ted Heath desparate to drag us onto the Franco/German gravy train.The vote to join waa rigged.

[Test User]

Cameron was a remainer, remind me who quit first. The asterisk is above the 8

And how many Leave leaders stepped up to lead this country when he quit? They created this mess by duping to people like you, so come on, tell me. Where Was Johnson? Gove? Davis? when we needed a Prime Minister to lead us through this shitshow? ******* nowhere.

[ClaretLoup]

When the Remainer PM quit not a single ******* one of you stepped up to take his job so it was left to another Remainer to take the reins of this galloping, spasticated donkey, and yet you still blame Remainers.

That's not correct Fox and Gove stood against Theresa May in the ballot held by Conservative MPs along with Leadsom and Crabb to select two members to put to the national membership. Leadsom and May came top, Leadsom withdrew as May received 60% as opposed to 25% ( with 15% for Gove) so the national membership ballot was not necessary.

[Chobulous]

And how many Leave leaders stepped up to lead this country when he quit? They created this mess by duping to people like you, so come on, tell me. Where Was Johnson? Gove? Davis? when we needed a Prime Minister to lead us through this shitshow? ******* nowhere.

You seem to be under the impression that I have any regard for any of those idiots or their position. I don't. Neither do I have any regard for the idiot politicians and public figures who have attempted to further their own agenda over the past 2 years. I accepted the result of the referendum because it was an expression of democracy. My view was that we should have worked together to get the best outcome from that point, not spend the next 2 years whinging, and decrying the "other side". Is that easy enough for you to comprehend or should I use a few expletives.

[Lancasterclaret]

Worth remembering DSR that was fair for the UK didn't seem that way to the SNP!

[Colburn_Claret]

This is interesting, because I believe she spent too long trying to appease the more extreme among her brexit caucus. How would you say she tried to appease remainers? Her red lines set out a more brexit hardline stance than many leavers talked about during the referendum.

As someone who voted leave , I said from day 1 that no deal was better than a bad deal.
She said that herself once upon a time, but didn't argue that case in Brussels. The thing is the EU doesn't want to deal with us at any price, but a no deal is as bad for the individual nations as it is for us. She should have played on that, and made it clear she was prepared to walk away. That would have had remainers having a massive hissy fit, just as her deal has leavers having a hissy fit. She's tried to sit on the fence, when taking that stance has just given the hand to Brussels.
It's too late to backtrack. There's no point going back, again , to Brussels, when she loses the vote tonight. It's time to accept no deal and move on.
The downside, and it's not the fault of Brexit, is the country should have been preparing for that scenario for the last 2 years, even if it hoped it wouldn't be necessary. We are sadly under prepared, and that's all down to May as well.

[Steve1956]

No! I wouldn't say I'm into politics that much,I voted to leave,we should leave,all this talk of a new referendum....what if we have another and the result remains the same,can those interested in politics enlighten me ,what will happen next?

[Guich]

In short if we had a second referendum it would be massively skewed toward the remainers because they have effectively had 2 years of non-stop campaigning against opposition that has done nothing more than await the implimentation of their democratic decision.

A second referendum would likely be a disaster. The signs are, and many a hunch is, that with such distrust of democracy and politicians of all sides, the leave vote would increase.

All parliament has done is to prove to the electorate, again and again, that they don't listen to them, so what do they expect?

There is a huge amount wrong with the EU, equally there are many reasons to stay in it. I wish either DC hadn't called a referendum or, as alluded to above, the country and politicians had accepted the vote with grace, pulled together and made the best of it.

The arch brexiteers have only their own interests at heart, and the loud remainers have shown how far removed they are from the electorate by constantly talking about trade and the economy, just as they did in the campaign. They are determined between them to make as big a mess of it as possible.

Remain should have made a proper argument in the first place, all the recession looming/emergency budget stuff was misfired. And I'm getting tired of the middle class bleating that the leave vote has deprived the next generation of the ability to work and travel abroad. It won't be as easy in 27 EU states of course, but anyone with a sellable skill and a visa can work (broadly) wherever they want. What we won't see is gap years to Nice getting an Au pair job and then hopping over to Venice to work on a gondala.

How does the argument that our kids can't work as easily in the Med sound to the 90 per cent of the UK population who would never have that opportunity or inclination anyway?

We desperately need talented immigrants to keep on coming here to support our NHS of course.

But we need to grow up. The world is not going to end, there will be winners and losers but we have made a complete mess of the whole thing.

Remain is not 100 per cent right - Leave is not 100 per cent right. If at least all our MPs could have grasped that we would have been in a better place.

It's a hugely, hugely complicated situation and our politicians, of all sides, have shown just how selfish and incompetent they can be.

[Hipper]

I was a remain voter. If we have a second referendum I think the most important consideration is the affront to our democracy and the damage that will do. I will therefore vote to leave.

[Test User]

I was a remain voter. If we have a second referendum then it will be because there is significant evidence that the public has changed it's mind and because i'm not an idiot i understand that changing one's mind is not an affront to democracy, so i will vote remain again.

[Lancasterclaret]

I respect your posts Hipper but that doesn't stack up.

if it goes to a 2nd ref, it will because all other options have failed using the current democratic process.

To say its not democratic and an affront to democracy is incorrect.

[JohnMcGreal]

the loud remainers have shown how far removed they are from the electorate by constantly talking about trade and the economy, just as they did in the campaign.

48% of people of who voted in the referendum voted to remain in the EU. Someone has to speak for them. You sound surprised that some MPs have actually spoken for the 48%. What did you expect?

They aren't removed from the electorate, they are speaking up on behalf of just under half of the electorate (although it could be significantly more than half at this point).

[Guich]

Fair point John

[summitclaret]

I'd expect them to vote as per their constituents. Certainly in places with over 60%.

[jedi_master]

I was a remain voter. If we have a second referendum I think the most important consideration is the affront to our democracy and the damage that will do. I will therefore vote to leave.

If there is a second referendum, would it not be because sufficient facts were not available at the outset of the first one?

Would it not be similar to carrying out Jury duty, and my initial vote was GUILTY, and then (a month later) new evidence had been established in the case which meant I had to return to court and was sufficiently swayed by the new evidence to now say NOT GUILTY?

Democracy is a very important fundamental of our society, but it doesn't take over the right to change one's mind when new evidence has come to the fore to make us question the original decision made.

I think we are now in a position of, when May fails tonight, that a vote asking the new and pertinent question of:

A - Leave with no deal/WTO rights.

B - Remain

Would not be an affront to democracy, just my opinion.

[Guich]

I was a remain voter. If we have a second referendum then it will be because there is significant evidence that the public has changed it's mind and because i'm not an idiot i understand that changing one's mind is not an affront to democracy, so i will vote remain again.

I don't think you get it. Brexit voters resolve has hardened and if you think many will change their mind you will be disappointed. Many remain voters (like me) have become disgusted by the whole shambles.

It will only go one way.

[aggi]

the loud remainers have shown how far removed they are from the electorate by constantly talking about trade and the economy, just as they did in the campaign.

They might not be very exciting topics but they're quite important.

[Test User]

Is there anything about this that Leave voters have accepted responsibility for? Even once? Is there a single issue regarding this mess for which Leave newspapers, journalists and politicians have NOT blamed Remainers?

[Guich]

They might not be very exciting topics but they're quite important.

They are Aggi, but not important enough to convince enough people.

[Darthlaw]

The truth is that those on the remain side had done everything to undermine our negotiating position right from the word go. They are just as culpable as anyone else in this whole sorry saga. It might have been a bad result but from that point we should have pulled together as a country to ensure we achieved the best possible outcome. What did we get, well we got what we have today.

THIS

For all those remainers who suggested Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for, this is the element about which they were probably correct. I'm sure no Leaver expected the procedure to be so vociferously undermined by an incessant element of the Remain side. An element which has sought to reverse the democratically made decision of the UK public from day one and has done nothing but to strengthen the negotiating position of the EU.

For that reason I have sympathy for Theresa May. It's tough enough negotiating to begin with, but with those on your side strengthening the position of those you are negotiating with? As long as remain carried on with their antics, she never stood a chance.

[Guich]

Is there anything about this that Leave voters have accepted responsibility for? Even once? Is there a single issue regarding this mess for which Leave newspapers, journalists and politicians have NOT blamed Remainers?

When has a politician ever accepted responsibility? It's how they work Test User, blame the other side - the EU campaigns and the aftermath has just showcased the very worst of politics.

[Mala591]

A definate tinge of admiration for her stamina.

If her withdrawal agreement is rejected tonight then surely the next step is to return to the EU and remind them that the two remaining options are:

1. Re-open the 'draft' withdrawal agreement and specify that the UK will have a unilateral option to terminate any backstop situation in the event of negotiation deadlock.

2. A no deal Brexit on the 29th March.

I suspect that the EU will 'reluctantly' accept that they have no option to agree to option 1. which will probably be then passed/ratified by the UK parliament.

[dsr]

1) which “British” cars are you referring to exactly ? Are we all going to driving round in Morgans ?
2) Did you actually listen to any of the Scottish independence debate ? The campaign against independence was fundamentally about how Scotland could not survive economically without the help of the UK and the threats about what would happen if they left.

1. Actually, "British" and "British-built" are not synonyms. When I said "British-built" cars I was including, for example, Nissans. I presume that was just mis-reading rather than misunderstanding.

2. There was indeed a lot of discussion about whether Scotland could survive economically, but that was because they would lose the UK subsidy and might not have enough industry and/or oil to get by. It wasn't because the UK was threatening all sorts of nasties and demanding extortionate prices in order for them to export their goods.

[Billy Balfour]

Anyone feel a tinge of sympathy for Theresa May ?

Nope. None whatsoever. She triggered Article 50 without a plan.

She launched disastrous GE campaign and threw away the first Tory majority in 18 years.

Set out her so-called 'Red Lines' without any consultation and then took nearly two years to produce the Chequers Plan.

I think most Brexiters and Remainers can agree when I say that this level of incompetence is totally unacceptable from a British PM.

[Test User]

When has a politician ever accepted responsibility? It's how they work Test User, blame the other side - the EU campaigns and the aftermath has just showcased the very worst of politics.

Blaming other people is central to right-wing ideologies nowadays. You see it everywhere where there are right-wing governments. Everything is always someone elses fault. Brexit is Remainers fault. Trump's shutdowns are Democrat's fault. Their **** lives are immigrants fault. The NHS is failing not because it's underfunded by people they voted for, no no, it's because of immigrants using it, or the EU, or both. Nigel Farage can't get to his own speech in time because traffic was bad, which was immigrants fault. Everything is always someone elses fault with these people.

And of course, when anyone else gets power and starts to ask "wait, is this actually our own fault?" the right-wing calls them "self-loathers" and tells their supporters that we're weak for blaming ourselves for our own problems. This is how we end up with idiocy like "Believe in Britain" being the counter to real introspection. Faith over logic, always.

[Chobulous]

Blaming other people is central to right-wing ideologies nowadays. You see it everywhere where there are right-wing governments. Everything is always someone elses fault. Brexit is Remainers fault. Trump's shutdowns are Democrat's fault. Their **** lives are immigrants fault. The NHS is failing not because it's underfunded by people they voted for, no no, it's because of immigrants using it, or the EU, or both. Nigel Farage can't get to his own speech in time because traffic was bad, which was immigrants fault. Everything is always someone elses fault with these people.

And of course, when anyone else gets power and starts to ask "wait, is this actually our own fault?" the right-wing calls them "self-loathers" and tells their supporters that we're weak for blaming ourselves for our own problems. This is how we end up with idiocy like "Believe in Britain" being the counter to real introspection. Faith over logic, always.

Everything is someone else's fault. Very much like your own argument regarding Leave voters.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Remainers have done **** all aside from demand that parliament have a say, which is the whole ******* point of our democracy and one of the key points of the Leave argument int he first place.

I'm a Remainer, absolutely, but this isn't smugness, this is anger at the people who voted for this not taking any respectability for it. You were warned by Remainers that Leave were lying to you when they said that it would all be a piece of **** and we'd get a great deal but you called us fearmongerers.

We ******* warned you, repeatedly, and you ignored us just as many times. When Leave won every one of your leaders did a ******* runner by quitting and yet you still blame Remainers. When the Remainer PM quit not a single ******* one of you stepped up to take his job so it was left to another Remainer to take the reins of this galloping, spasticated donkey, and yet you still blame Remainers.

This is entirely the fault of Leave voters for believing the lies, the Leave campaigners for lying to rubes, and for the Leave leaders for being ******* absent this whole ******* time.

So **** you and every one of you arseholes for this mess, this is your fault so take some ******* responsibility and stop blaming everyone else for your stupid decisions.

Methinks you need to untwist your Union Jack panties.

[summitclaret]

If there is a second referendum, would it not be because sufficient facts were not available at the outset of the first one?

Would it not be similar to carrying out Jury duty, and my initial vote was GUILTY, and then (a month later) new evidence had been established in the case which meant I had to return to court and was sufficiently swayed by the new evidence to now say NOT GUILTY?

Democracy is a very important fundamental of our society, but it doesn't take over the right to change one's mind when new evidence has come to the fore to make us question the original decision made.

I think we are now in a position of, when May fails tonight, that a vote asking the new and pertinent question of:

A - Leave with no deal/WTO rights.

B - Remain

Would not be an affront to democracy, just my opinion.

Those conclusions are a disgrace and clearly designed to get a remain vote. The way forward is clearly somewhere in between.

[Joey is no kant]

She is a repulsive liar,and a terrible dancer.

[Colburn_Claret]

I respect your posts Hipper but that doesn't stack up.

if it goes to a 2nd ref, it will because all other options have failed using the current democratic process.

To say its not democratic and an affront to democracy is incorrect.

Of course it's an affront.
What happens if you got your way, there's another vote and remain wins 51% to 49%. Does that mean the country's happy and we can all walk away. Or do we have a 3rd referendum, and a 4th until someone can get clear daylight.
It's a pathetic joke. I understand you're not happy with the outcome of the first one, I wouldn't have been if remain had won, but I'm certain I wouldn't be crying about years later.
You voted you lost, move on.
I'm sure you aren't deliberately trying to undermine the process, but many remainers, especially in Parliament are trying to do just that.

[Chobulous]

Of course it's an affront.
I'm sure you aren't deliberately trying to undermine the process, but many remainers, especially in Parliament are trying to do just that.

Ain't that the truth. Test User refers industrially to chaos and incompetence but fails to acknowledge that this chaos has been deliberately brought about by politicians of all stripe. He can only see faults from those on the leave side, maybe he is blinded by the obvious red mist in front of his eyes but the truth is that none of our so called leaders have come out of this with any credit. The self serving machinations in parliament and beyond have been breath taking in their cynicism. As I said earlier they all ought to be ashamed. Trump may well be a complete idiot and a disaster for the free world but his idea of draining the swamp has never been more pertinent to this country.

[JohnMcGreal]

Of course it's an affront.
What happens if you got your way, there's another vote and remain wins 51% to 49%. Does that mean the country's happy and we can all walk away. Or do we have a 3rd referendum, and a 4th until someone can get clear daylight.
It's a pathetic joke. I understand you're not happy with the outcome of the first one, I wouldn't have been if remain had won, but I'm certain I wouldn't be crying about years later.
You voted you lost, move on.
I'm sure you aren't deliberately trying to undermine the process, but many remainers, especially in Parliament are trying to do just that.

You're not really interested in public opinion, are you? Your post just shows that to you it's all about sides, winners and losers, people getting their way.

It's supposed to be about democracy, and if the public mood has shifted, it's only right that we check and act on that.

[Test User]

Of course it's an affront.
What happens if you got your way, there's another vote and remain wins 51% to 49%. Does that mean the country's happy and we can all walk away. Or do we have a 3rd referendum, and a 4th until someone can get clear daylight.
It's a pathetic joke. I understand you're not happy with the outcome of the first one, I wouldn't have been if remain had won, but I'm certain I wouldn't be crying about years later.
You voted you lost, move on.
I'm sure you aren't deliberately trying to undermine the process, but many remainers, especially in Parliament are trying to do just that.

Anyone who claims that having a referendum is an affront to democracy is not someone that should ever be taken seriously when discussing democracy.