ARTICLE: Bobby Seith: The man who defied Bob Lord and won

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:20 pm

Article from Tim Quelch following an interview he did with Bobby Seith

See link
http://www.uptheclarets.com/bobby-seith ... rd-and-won" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:37 pm

As ever an excellent, well written and well researched piece by Tim Quelch. Bobby Seith served the Clarets well and had a fine careeer in football, sounds a nice man and very deserving of his belated championship medal.

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:41 pm

I love reading these snippets on footballers from the past, oh how things have changed.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:42 pm

I never saw Bobby Seith play but I had a couple of telephone conversations with him back in 2010. Bright as a button and I couldn't get a word in. Really good to talk to.

And another superb article from Tim.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:12 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I never saw Bobby Seith play but I had a couple of telephone conversations with him back in 2010. Bright as a button and I couldn't get a word in. Really good to talk to.

And another superb article from Tim.

Bobby was a strong, classy player in a great side. He played 27 league games in the '59/'60 Championship season and thoroughly deserved his Championship medal even though he was made to wait by Bob Lord.

Hard to believe he will be 87 years young in March this year, it seems only yesterday he was gracing the Turf in that fantastic '59/'60 team.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:17 pm

He was the last player I didn't see play for Burnley, if that makes sense. He played his final game just months before I first started going. My dad always liked him as a player. Just thinking, it's nine years now since I spoke to him, we were on the phone for ages.

What a shame it all went sour in the end and he was denied his medal for all those years because of one ignorant, stubborn, horrible man.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:29 pm

The thing that always sticks with me about Bobby was that he rarely went past the half-way line. He knew exactly what his job was in arguably our greatest ever side and he did it fantastically well. I think he played another 8 Cup matches in the '59/'60 season on top of the 27 league games but never scored in any of them.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:35 pm

Only scored six league goals for us and he also made 27 cup appearances without scoring, they would have all been FA Cup. His last goal came on 28th March 1959, the second in a 4-2 home win against Manchester United.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:39 pm

I can only echo the sentiments of those other fans who saw him play. As royboy says, he was so disciplined in his play and contributed to that great side.
He obviously had a lot of self-discipline and, as Tim has reported, he insisted in this from those he managed.
Just ridiculous that he had to wait all that time for his medal. A smashing player during a great era for Burnley Football Club.

Hendrickxz · Post by **Hendrickxz** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:39 pm

Bobby still has relatives in Lancashire. I met his nephew a few years ago through work. He was running a hard landscaping company over Chorley way. It would have been just around the time he finally got his medal because we were discussing that at the time.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:46 pm

Hendrickxz wrote:Bobby still has relatives in Lancashire. I met his nephew a few years ago through work. He was running a hard landscaping company over Chorley way. It would have been just around the time he finally got his medal because we were discussing that at the time.

His wife Jean is from Burnley and she is related to Sandra Connelly (John's wife) so no surprise he has relatives in the county. When they visit they always stay with the friends in the exorcised house at Simonstone.

There's a real sadness to this story though. He played all those games in the title winning season, didn't get a medal, wasn't on the photograph with the trophy and when the club were doing something for the 50th anniversary he'd been left out. So many younger fans aren't aware of him and they should be given his contribution to one of our best ever teams.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:52 pm

Over the years theres probably a few players who won titles both sides of the border, but I doubt there’s any who did it with smaller clubs than Burnley and Dundee! He must have been some player.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:07 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Only scored six league goals for us and he also made 27 cup appearances without scoring, they would have all been FA Cup. His last goal came on 28th March 1959, the second in a 4-2 home win against Manchester United.

That was my first season (58-59) watching us and I remember that game even though still a month short of my 7th birthday. Manchester United wore an all white kit with red trimmings,Bobby Charlton played and another name I recall,for some strange reason was their defender, Joe Carolan. Also think Roy Greaves, later to become Bolton Wanderers' manager, played for them too. Stood at the front of the Longside with my dad on a bright sunny day. I remember going over on the bus from Rawtenstall looking out of the window and seeing lots of cars passing us with people wearing red and white scarves and wondering why there were so many. Happy times for a little boy and still much,much better to come.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:11 pm

Silkyskills1 wrote:That was my first season (58-59) watching us and I remember that game even though still a month short of my 7th birthday. Manchester United wore an all white kit with red trimmings,Bobby Charlton played and another name I recall,for some strange reason was their defender, Joe Carolan. Also think Roy Greaves, later to become Bolton Wanderers' manager, played for them too. Stood at the front of the Longside with my dad on a bright sunny day. I remember going over on the bus from Rawtenstall looking out of the window and seeing lots of cars passing us with people wearing red and white scarves and wondering why there were so many. Happy times for a little boy and still much,much better to come.

United team was: Harry Gregg, Joe Carolan, Ian Greaves, Ron Cope, Albert Scanlon, Freddie Goodwin, Wilf McGuinness, Bobby Charlton, Warren Bradley, Dennis Viollet, Albert Quixall.

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:19 pm

ClaretTony wrote:United team was: Harry Gregg, Joe Carolan, Ian Greaves, Ron Cope, Albert Scanlon, Freddie Goodwin, Wilf McGuinness, Bobby Charlton, Warren Bradley, Dennis Viollet, Albert Quixall.

I think the years are taking their toll on me,CT. I knew there was a Greaves playing but then became confused. Roy Greaves played for Bolton in the 80's didn't he? But did Ian Greaves become their manager? As I say, all very confusing.

Rumpelstiltskin · Post by **Rumpelstiltskin** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:32 pm

I believe that "the exorcised house" (Bob Lords home) has recently been put up for sale.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:35 pm

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:I believe that "the exorcised house" (Bob Lords home) has recently been put up for sale.

Has it? It was back in 2010 when Seith told me that tale and the friends had just recently moved in then. Lord lived in two different houses on Whins Lane, but his final home was on the corner of Manchester Road and Scott Park Road in Burnley.

Rumpelstiltskin · Post by **Rumpelstiltskin** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:40 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Has it? It was back in 2010 when Seith told me that tale and the friends had just recently moved in then. Lord lived in two different houses on Whins Lane, but his final home was on the corner of Manchester Road and Scott Park Road in Burnley.

In that case Tony I have got the wrong house...I am referring to one of his former homes on Whins Lane Simonstone !

winsomeyen · Post by **winsomeyen** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:49 pm

I saw Bobby score in my first away game at Burnden Park in a 2 1 win.

Lords treatment of Bobby shows yet again what an asshole Lord really was.

Sausage · Post by **Sausage** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:52 pm

What a brilliant read. Bobby Seith comes across as a really grounded and contented man. What a contrast with Bob Lord who, for decades, has been depicted in stories and anecdotes as a loveable rogue when, in fact, all the evidence points to him being an obnoxious, vicious and vindictive man. I know times change and it is very dangerous to apply modern standards to the antics of previous generations, but what sort of miserable arsehole would deny a player a championship winners medal, even back then?

Off at a tangent, I think the club missed a trick in 2016; they should've got a team photo of the 2016 title winning team with the surviving members of the 1960 CHAMPIONS OF ENGLAND* sat on the front row with the famous old trophy. I'd have paid good money for a copy.

*upper case text absolutely, definitely, 100% necessary

BigRedrose · Post by **BigRedrose** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:27 pm

Typical of Lord, odious, vindictive man.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:47 pm

Sausage wrote:What a brilliant read. Bobby Seith comes across as a really grounded and contented man. What a contrast with Bob Lord who, for decades, has been depicted in stories and anecdotes as a loveable rogue when, in fact, all the evidence points to him being an obnoxious, vicious and vindictive man. I know times change and it is very dangerous to apply modern standards to the antics of previous generations, but what sort of miserable arsehole would deny a player a championship winners medal, even back then?

Off at a tangent, I think the club missed a trick in 2016; they should've got a team photo of the 2016 title winning team with the surviving members of the 1960 CHAMPIONS OF ENGLAND* sat on the front row with the famous old trophy. I'd have paid good money for a copy.

*upper case text absolutely, definitely, 100% necessary

What a great idea that would have been, a wonderful way of bringing both sets of players together to celebrate two superb achievements.......In fact, is it something that can possibly still be organised?

I know if such a commemorative photo was on sale in the Club shop I'd be in the queue to purchase one. We used 18 players in that wonderful '59/'60 First Division Championship win and obviously some of those great players are no longer with us, but the likes of John Angus, Alex Elder, Jimmy Robson (80 years old next week), Brian Pilkington, Trevor Meredith, Bobby Seith and others still have great affection for Burnley.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:04 pm

Excellent article which I really enjoyed reading. Lots of facts that I never knew or had forgotten. I started watching the Clarets about the time of Seiths debut and I was certainly at the game v Luton when he scored his first goal. I was shocked when I read he played 27 lg and 7 cup ties in 59/0 This is way more than I realized. With regard to the belated medal, what a crap thing for Lord to do and great job by Barry. If anybody earned his medal Bob Seith did. Thank you Sir, it was an honour to watch you . UTC

exilecanada · Post by **exilecanada** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:26 pm

A well written, informative article. I saw Bobby Seith play a few times back in the day, wasn’t he a long throw specialist?

Longside4evr · Post by **Longside4evr** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:54 pm

Loved the article the football clubs really did hold the players to ransom with their contracts
He wanted to finish career off in his native homeland , if it wasn't for him playing his trump card and holding his chiropodist credentials he would have been sold to Stoke City, it didn't mention the fee but Lord must have been seething in his greed
Has Rab held a trump card here and would have pulled out the game and Lord knowing this would have got nowt.
You just after love that bit.
Thanks for pulling up the article Tony you do a Stirling job.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:41 pm

What an excellent write up very interesting I also never saw him play but he certainly gave a good insight into some of Bob Lords ways.

I new nothing of his time back in Scotland either he was very successful considering as we know that Celtic and Rangers do dominate up there.

johnto · Post by **johnto** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:42 pm

Excellent article. I remember him coaching at Primet secondary school in Colne in the mid fifties.

Bullabill · Post by **Bullabill** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:42 am

My recollections of Bobby include the comments re. discipline etc. but I will never forget watching him almost break the net during pre-match kick-ins in front of the CFS but never quite reproducing the same venom in matches.

Thanks for the great article about a top bloke.

ClaretLoup · Post by **ClaretLoup** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:20 am

Yet another excellent article by Tim. Many thanks.

mdd2 · Post by **mdd2** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:25 am

Great article and yet another player from our production line of the 50's I remember playing.
Wayne Rooney lives in a £millions mansion about 5 miles from me and several other players live in that village in equally impressive houses.
Bobby Seith lived in a terraced house at the top of my street for a time when he played for us- A sign of how times have changed for many footballers.
Oh and our house was a two up two down with privvy in backyard not like terraces on Manchester Road!!!!

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:55 am

Rumpelstiltskin wrote:In that case Tony I have got the wrong house...I am referring to one of his former homes on Whins Lane Simonstone !

You will be right, it was one of the houses on Whins Lane that his friend bought, not sure which of them. Lord moved to Manchester Road for the last months of his life.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:58 am

Sausage wrote:What a contrast with Bob Lord who, for decades, has been depicted in stories and anecdotes as a loveable rogue when, in fact, all the evidence points to him being an obnoxious, vicious and vindictive man.

I think that sums Lord up perfectly - horrible man.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:37 am

ClaretTony wrote:I think that sums Lord up perfectly - horrible man.

Those at Leeds didn't think that he was as good as that!

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:04 pm

half of Manchester, most of Leeds, Manny Cussins, Don Revie, Wrexham supporters, Brentford supporters, Ernie Clay, Derek Dougan, Alan Hardaker, the Cobbold Brothers, Ken Bates, Harry Langton, Louis Edwards, that Swales bloke from Man City, and many others might have said something stronger than loveable rogue.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:13 pm

Rodleydave wrote:half of Manchester, most of Leeds, Manny Cussins, Don Revie, Wrexham supporters, Brentford supporters, Ernie Clay, Derek Dougan, Alan Hardaker, the Cobbold Brothers, Ken Bates, Harry Langton, Louis Edwards, that Swales bloke from Man City, and many others might have said something stronger than loveable rogue.

And yet the Burnley players, in fact pretty much every employee at the Club, could not speak highly enough of the man.

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:58 pm

add the good folks of Accrington to the list

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:05 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:And yet the Burnley players, in fact pretty much every employee at the Club, could not speak highly enough of the man.

Not true at all, far from it.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:58 pm

Rodleydave wrote:add the good folks of Accrington to the list

You can leave them out. All Lord did at Accrington was to go along and see if they could be saved , and thell them that they were stuffed. It was Accrington's own board that resigned from the League, having failed to launch the public appeal in Accrington that would have saved the club.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:26 pm

ClaretTony wrote:Not true at all, far from it.

You might think it's not true, but my information is very different.

Look, he made mistakes and many enemies but everything he did was with the interests of Burnley FC at heart. He has to be given credit for that.

The Tim Quelch book from which the article in the OP was lifted goes to great lengths to stress that the players at the Club were treated royally......"Most of the Burnley players interviewed for this book felt they were well treated by Bob Lord. A number of them remarked upon the swanky hotels and first class travelling arrangements. Lord flew his team to a number of away matches at a time when this was highly unusual"......."John Connelly said Lord was a wonderful man who'd do anything for his players and looked after us financially".......

Even Jimmy Mac writing in his book in 1960 said........" Mr. Lord is an amazing character, his sole apparent aim is to make Burnley FC a great name in soccer".......

Lots more quotes from players and staff saying very much the same.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:38 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:You might think it's not true, but my information is very different

I know it 's not true because I know several people who worked for him, players, other club staff and even in the butchers, who would not agree with your view.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:39 pm

dsr wrote:You can leave them out. All Lord did at Accrington was to go along and see if they could be saved , and thell them that they were stuffed. It was Accrington's own board that resigned from the League, having failed to launch the public appeal in Accrington that would have saved the club.

Maybe but he is despised by a lot of people in Accrington who point the finger at him for the demise of the club that, apparently now, wouldn't die.

Royboyclaret · Post by **Royboyclaret** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:33 pm

ClaretTony wrote:I know it 's not true because I know several people who worked for him, players, other club staff and even in the butchers, who would not agree with your view.

Pointless pursuing the debate as it's obvious from your every post the utter contempt that you hold for Bob Lord.

Everyone knows he made mistakes, but that contempt is completely out of proportion based on the excellent work he did for our Club.

ClaretTony · Post by **ClaretTony** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:36 pm

Royboyclaret wrote:Pointless pursuing the debate as it's obvious from your every post the utter contempt that you hold for Bob Lord.

Everyone knows he made mistakes, but that contempt is completely out of proportion based on the excellent work he did for our Club.

Pointless pursuing you say but you seemed to have the opinion of everyone that worked for him with your comment. That's what I was commenting on, not my views of Bob Lord.

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:49 pm

Agree it was far from Bob Lord's fault that Accrington went out. There were several reasons. Phil Whalley's excellent book looks at them all.
So does the new Lord book due in July. Alan Hardaker was the one who eventually gave them the elbow. But Lord being Lord was the one who copped the flak. Accy wanted to withdraw their letter of resignation from the league but Hardaker said no.

Wokingclaret · Post by **Wokingclaret** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:42 pm

Looking forward to the book Dave that is for sure.

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:58 pm

Two favourite stories from the new Lord book... one about the turkeys from Cumbria
and the second that begins It was Christmas Eve in the workhouse (actually the yard at the Lowerhouse factory)...
the latter up there with Dickens and Christmas Carol...

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:10 am

ClaretTony wrote:Maybe but he is despised by a lot of people in Accrington who point the finger at him for the demise of the club that, apparently now, wouldn't die.

I've no doubt they do. But it's a bit like starting a fire in your own home and then complaining that the fireman didn't rescue your jewellery. The Accrington board got the club into a mess, and the Accrington board resigned from the League; they may blame Bob Lord because he didn't do anything, but the Accrington board are the worse culprits.

If Burnley had gone bankrupt in 1987, there wouldn't (or shouldn't) have been any scapegoats from outside the club. Our position was our own fault. So was Accrington's.

I'm very glad the club was re-formed/recovered, mind. It's something to do on those rare!!! Saturdays when Burnley aren't playing at 3 pm.

HunterST_BFC · Post by **HunterST_BFC** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:15 am

A great Article.
A good read.
Thank you.

claretfern · Post by **claretfern** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:17 am

I hope the forthcoming book will give a balanced view of Bob Lord. My late aunt was his P.A (for want of a better title) down at Lowerhouse. She would have agreed that he has his faults, like many businessmen, but she used to say that he always had the best interests of the club at heart. Some of the name calling on this thread leaves me a little sad. At least Royboy has tried to give some perspective.

Rodleydave · Post by **Rodleydave** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:47 am

We have done our utmost to give a fair and balanced view of Bob Lord.
Mike and I set out with the aim that this would not be a hatchet job.

There are two strands that dominate the story... Lord and Potts and then Lord and Adamson.
Prior to that there is his boyhood, beginnings of the business, becoming a Freemason, expansion of the business, building up his shares, getting onto the board and then how he became chairman.

I was lucky to be able to talk at length to Barbara and Margaret Lord several years ago for the No Nay Never books on many occasions. That gave a picture of the man behind the 'front.' Mike's father was one of his shop managers. George Heys another master butcher we talked to about him amongst many others, plus players of course.

Mike began his research 8 years ago and has sourced some unique pictures, I began building a file app 6 years ago. Mike takes the story to 1955 and then I carry on. It has worked beautifully.

Opinions and hearsay and rumour are out. Facts and first hand source materials are the basis and the boardroom minutes of board meetings that were invaluable. We have certainly put his Munich comments into perspective and the infamous Adelphi speech. We have emphasised his visions and predictions, many of which now form the basis of football today. We have delved into the court cases and prosecutions but have ignored for example the accusations of selling condemned meat because there is no concrete evidence. For 20 years he did a grand job and laid the foundations for what we are today, for the last 6 years he nearly ruined the club; it was as good as bankrupt. We look at all of that including the ultimate FA enquiry into his and club finances that he was spared only by his death.
All his feuds and confrontations with all and sundry are there... at least the ones we know about.
And believe me the full story of the Lowerhouse Land deal is a corker of intrigue and plotting.