Chris Wood and The Offside Rule

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:39 pm

I get that Rikeybobs, I’d just like to lose the arrogance from the game and have them say “sorry, I got that wrong”. Explain the decision and either educate us all as to why we are wrong and they are right, or put their hands up and be human.

Trouble is, if we go down by one point, the lino from today who wrongly cost us the three points officiates at games in he PL next season, whilst god knows what happens to us. It’s forgotten and they go about their business.

When there is SO much at stake, it’s just not right that certain aspects are considered beyond reproach.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:40 pm

Maybe I’m a little sore....

Anyway, decent point and I would’ve taken it before the game.

As an aside, would VAR have allowed it? I think so...

Goodclaret · Post by **Goodclaret** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:40 pm

Wood was brilliant today. If he he plays so "badly" in each game for the rest of the season I'll be very happy.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:41 pm

I suppose he’s taken the attention away from Barnes’s profligacy today.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:45 pm

bobinho wrote:I get that Rikeybobs, I’d just like to lose the arrogance from the game and have them say “sorry, I got that wrong”. Explain the decision and either educate us all as to why we are wrong and they are right, or put their hands up and be human.

Trouble is, if we go down by one point, the lino from today who wrongly cost us the three points officiates at games in he PL next season, whilst god knows what happens to us. It’s forgotten and they go about their business.

When there is SO much at stake, it’s just not right that certain aspects are considered beyond reproach.

I understand that, but with offside calls we are talking marginal, split-second decisions. There's nothing for the assistant to explain, he thought Wood was offside, he might not have been entirely level or his reactions may not have been quick enough. Either way there's nothing for him to explain. Unfortunately it has cost us 2 points today but a similar decision will invariably gain us the 2 points back over the course of the season.

As for your next post, the goal definitely would have been awarded with VAR.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:50 pm

Like I say, I think I’m a little sore... I don’t normally post until the day after we’ve played... and for good reason as you can see.

With everything at stake, maybe VAR will HAVE to come into the game. It will only take a club to go down and cause ructions. Bring it in soon and head it off at the pass, so to speak.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:51 pm

Rileybobs wrote:I think it stands to reason that our only player who runs in behind the other team is caught offside more than the rest of the team. It can be frustrating but his playing off the shoulder has led to us creating numerous chances which begin with a ball in the channel to Wood. His clever runs have been instrumental in us picking up 10 points in the last 4 games.

As for inexcusable, Tarkowski was caught offside from two free kicks in dangerous areas - that’s more inexcusable.

Wood was also offside for one of the free kicks!

It’s inexcusable because he’s a striker, and he’s offside usually because he’s lazy in trying to stay onside. You don’t have to play “literally off the shoulder”, you have to bend your run, and time it. He doesn’t bend his runs, and he doesn’t bother looking at the line to stay onside. He just ambles back and hopes half the time. It’s infuriating. I wouldn’t mind if he was constantly pushing the opposition back line, making them hold a line, but he doesn’t. His runs aren’t that clever, they are basic forward play - spin into the channels and hold the ball up. If you can’t do that as a striker then you shouldn’t be anywhere near professional football!

This isn’t a big dig at Chris Wood, he has been much much much much better since Boxing Day. But it’s one part of his game that needs to improve. You will never succeed in this league, at a club who creates as few chances as we do, if you don’t maximise the opportunities, and stay onside when it is easy to do so

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:53 pm

LTUK89 wrote:Finally someone other than the happy clapper brigade responds, thank the lord.

I still think you were a tad harsh

He didn’t have a bad game today. But he is offside way more than he should be. It’s the manner in which he is offside that bothers me

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:56 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:Wood was also offside for one of the free kicks!

It’s inexcusable because he’s a striker, and he’s offside usually because he’s lazy in trying to stay onside. You don’t have to play “literally off the shoulder”, you have to bend your run, and time it. He doesn’t bend his runs, and he doesn’t bother looking at the line to stay onside. He just ambles back and hopes half the time. It’s infuriating. I wouldn’t mind if he was constantly pushing the opposition back line, making them hold a line, but he doesn’t. His runs aren’t that clever, they are basic forward play - spin into the channels and hold the ball up. If you can’t do that as a striker then you shouldn’t be anywhere near professional football!

This isn’t a big dig at Chris Wood, he has been much much much much better since Boxing Day. But it’s one part of his game that needs to improve. You will never succeed in this league, at a club who creates as few chances as we do, if you don’t maximise the opportunities, and stay onside when it is easy to do so

He's not usually offside because he's lazy in trying to stay onside though, you're just making that up.

Other things in your post that you're making up include;
He doesn’t bend his runs
he doesn’t bother looking at the line to stay onside
He just ambles back and hopes half the time
His runs aren’t that clever

That's not to say that Wood couldn't improve the amount of times he is caught offside but it's being massively overstated, particularly after a game where his running was a major factor in our performance.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:04 pm

I suppose you'd have to concede it's something for him to work on, at least
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top ... al_offside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But harsh to get on his back given his form recently and how unfortunate he was today. 4 goals in 5 games would've been great for him.

claretblue · Post by **claretblue** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:04 pm

Il Duce wrote:Correct, has to be a part of the body that can be scored with.

I’ve seen Arsenal score with an arm!

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 pm

Rileybobs wrote:He's not usually offside because he's lazy in trying to stay onside though, you're just making that up.

Other things in your post that you're making up include;
He doesn’t bend his runs
he doesn’t bother looking at the line to stay onside
He just ambles back and hopes half the time
His runs aren’t that clever

That's not to say that Wood couldn't improve the amount of times he is caught offside but it's being massively overstated, particularly after a game where his running was a major factor in our performance.

I’m not making any of it up. It’s infuriated me for ages. I watch him whilst he’s doing it, and I see him doing all the things I have described. I could be wrong, but I’d be amazed if anyone could counter the argument with evidence

whiffa · Post by **whiffa** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:07 pm

Not good enough. Seems to be something we need to work on.

yorkyclaret · Post by **yorkyclaret** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:13 pm

Looks onside, but the line isn't right, it looks parallel to the 18 yard line but it shouldn't do, look at the grass mowing lines, they are in fact parallel but don't look so on that picture. Is it perspective or camera lens?

LTUK89 · Post by **LTUK89** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:14 pm

willsclarets wrote:I suppose you'd have to concede it's something for him to work on, at least
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top ... al_offside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But harsh to get on his back given his form recently and how unfortunate he was today. 4 goals in 5 games would've been great for him.

Enter the stat man. I love a good stat.

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:20 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:his arm was offside, given they give offside for level nowadays he was offside

VAR my well have ruled him level though because he was. Offside rule needs sorting out because to rule a goal out for an arm is ridiculous

I thought the rule was that you can't be offside with your hand, arm etc, in other words by anything that you're not legally allowed to score with.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:22 pm

beddie wrote:I thought the rule was that you can't be offside with your hand, arm etc, in other words by anything that you're not legally allowed to score with.

So we can’t be offside from a penalty?

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:26 pm

Rileybobs wrote:What do you want the assistant to come out and say? He got a marginal offside call wrong. He probably gets 95% of his offside calls right and unfortunately we were on the wrong end of one of his errors. He is human, people make mistakes.

You just made a perfect argument for the use of VAR.

Rileybobs · Post by **Rileybobs** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:27 pm

FCBurnley wrote:You just made a perfect argument for the use of VAR.

I don’t have an objection to the use of VAR. I object to how it is used.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:28 pm

LTUK89 wrote:Enter the stat man. I love a good stat.

(not so) interestingly, as well as being offside more than any other player this year, Chris Wood has exactly the same amount of offsides as appearances in the premier league. 57. So if he's offside once a game he's batting his average.

Adebayor has the worst record in the premier league. 242 appearances, 328 offsides. That must've been annoying to watch.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:29 pm

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top ... al_offside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chris Wood is top of the offside stats this season for the entire Premier League

Just to put it into context

Offsides per game on average in Premier League:

Chris Wood 1
Andre Gray 0.74
Ashley Barnes 0.55
Jay Rodriguez 0.54
Jon Walters 0.53
Danny Ings 0.46
Sam Vokes 0.37

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:31 pm

beddie wrote:I thought the rule was that you can't be offside with your hand, arm etc, in other words by anything that you're not legally allowed to score with.

you are correct, had you read the rest of the thread you would have seen I was being sarcastic. Bonkers decision

beddie · Post by **beddie** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:33 pm

Apologies Vegas, just got in the house and rushed reading it correctly.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:42 pm

This was always going to bite Wood on the arse.

If you're the Assistant Ref and nine times out of ten you look down the line and see Wood in an offside position, the one time that there is any doubt, human nature is going to make you assume that in all probability he was offside.

For what it's worth I thought he was clearly on.

scouseclaret · Post by **scouseclaret** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:57 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top ... al_offside

Chris Wood is top of the offside stats this season for the entire Premier League

Just to put it into context

Offsides per game on average in Premier League:

Chris Wood 1
Andre Gray 0.74
Ashley Barnes 0.55
Jay Rodriguez 0.54
Jon Walters 0.53
Danny Ings 0.46
Sam Vokes 0.37

How do you get to that? Wood has been offsite 28 times this season and hasn’t played anything like that number of games - the team has only played 23!

Anyone who doesn’t think he has a problem with offsides this season hasn’t been paying much attention - It has infuriated me too .

I would say it does seem to be mainly his season though. I wonder if he’s tried to change he way he plays. Maybe to compensate for his lack of pace?

lucs86 · Post by **lucs86** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:59 pm

In the 92nd minute if he's launching himself full tilt to get himself miles onside as the shot comes in then he's getting nowhere near the tap in when the keeper spills it, then there's no goal and no debate.
As it happens he's onside, reaches the tap in just in time and we've been shafted by a bad call from the linesman.
This is some harsh criticism. He's played the full game (no subs), done all the running and had 2 ruled out, one rightly (just, no benefit of the doubt given) and one wrongly.

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:03 pm

The problem is that his general play encourages bad calls from the linesman.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:11 pm

scouseclaret wrote:How do you get to that? Wood has been offsite 28 times this season and hasn’t played anything like that number of games - the team has only played 23

It’s his entire Premier League career. Not just this season

DAVETHEVICAR · Post by **DAVETHEVICAR** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:34 pm

Whatever anyone says about offsides Chris Wood was our best player today imo

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:45 pm

He's been loads better lately overall and everybody agrees he was excellent today for the most part, but there is no denying that he so easily caught offside giving the opposition a great get out of jail card far too often and that's something that ought to be being looked at. Why is Barnes hardly ever offside for example? (And yes, Wood was actually onside today when it mattered most and the liner got that one wrong)

dougcollins · Post by **dougcollins** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:49 pm

Agreed Dave.

I generally like Wood but he needs to get his head round this offside thing. I know the Assistant got it wrong, but I have a suspicion that had it been Barnes the goal would stand.

Bobzuruncle · Post by **Bobzuruncle** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:18 pm

C’mon , we’ve complained like this about our main target man for years - it’s how we expect him to play but we also expect the officials to make the right decision and on this one they didn’t.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:54 pm

scouseclaret wrote:How do you get to that? Wood has been offsite 28 times this season and hasn’t played anything like that number of games - the team has only played 23!

Anyone who doesn’t think he has a problem with offsides this season hasn’t been paying much attention - It has infuriated me too .

I would say it does seem to be mainly his season though. I wonder if he’s tried to change he way he plays. Maybe to compensate for his lack of pace?

And to be fair to Chris Wood, it was a mere 0.91 before today. Offside 6 times today, really bumped him up the charts

Raggus · Post by **Raggus** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:11 pm

Roosterbooster wrote:Was he offside for the disallowed goal? No
Was he onside because he timed his run well and looked at the back line? No. It was because the left back was lazy. Chris Wood had no clue where the LB was
Was he inexcusably offside numerous times? Yes
Is he inexcusably offside more than any other player? Yes

Onside or offside for the goal today... He needs to sort this out. It’s not difficult

Hahaha, not difficult? The guy plays on the shoulder, if he got it right every time he would be a miracle man. Not 1 player can do that, the players that come close cost 100's. Give the guy some credit. He wasn't offside today when he scored but the recored books say he was?

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:18 pm

Can’t remember the last time we had a marginal offside decision go our way, at either end of the pitch!

claretspice · Post by **claretspice** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:24 pm

martin_p wrote:Can’t remember the last time we had a marginal offside decision go our way, at either end of the pitch!

At home to Brighton, and Liverpool - both times when Wood got away with a marginal offside.

The win against Brighton for a point today is a pretty fair exchange, so whilst we were unlucky today, we can't get too much of a complex about it.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:38 pm

I reckon if VAR hadn't been thought of, the linesman wouldn't have had a problem - he would have got it right. But VAR isn't just an extra way of deciding the decision, it's a whole new rule.

Until 1990, Wood would have been offside, because he was level with the second-last defender. From 1990 until just about now, he would have been onside, because he was level with the second-last defender. What VAR has done, in the minds of referees (who appear, like sheep, to be following the party line of someone who isn't actually suited to tell them what's what) is abolish the concept of "level". In the old days, if two players were standing 15 yards and one foot from goal, they were level. Now they aren't, because you have to assess whether one man's shoulder was actually 15 yards 1 foot and an inch away, or the other man's foot was 15 yards 0 feet and 11 inches away.

When the "level is onside" concept was brought in, it was the deliberate intention of the lawmakers to give the attacker and extra couple of feet or so to be onside. The new VAR lawmakers, without consultation and (so far as I can see) without even bothering to think about it, have cut that back down to an inch or so.

turfytopper · Post by **turfytopper** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:51 pm

Vegas Claret wrote:his arm was offside, given they give offside for level nowadays he was offside

VAR my well have ruled him level though because he was. Offside rule needs sorting out because to rule a goal out for an arm is ridiculous

Arms can't be offside.

The goal should have stood.

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:59 pm

dsr wrote:I reckon if VAR hadn't been thought of, the linesman wouldn't have had a problem - he would have got it right. But VAR isn't just an extra way of deciding the decision, it's a whole new rule.

Until 1990, Wood would have been offside, because he was level with the second-last defender. From 1990 until just about now, he would have been onside, because he was level with the second-last defender. What VAR has done, in the minds of referees (who appear, like sheep, to be following the party line of someone who isn't actually suited to tell them what's what) is abolish the concept of "level". In the old days, if two players were standing 15 yards and one foot from goal, they were level. Now they aren't, because you have to assess whether one man's shoulder was actually 15 yards 1 foot and an inch away, or the other man's foot was 15 yards 0 feet and 11 inches away.

When the "level is onside" concept was brought in, it was the deliberate intention of the lawmakers to give the attacker and extra couple of feet or so to be onside. The new VAR lawmakers, without consultation and (so far as I can see) without even bothering to think about it, have cut that back down to an inch or so.

I don’t thInk it’s anything to do with that. The linesman, as throughout football history, has been asked to make a split second decision. He’s got it wrong. But we only know he’s got it wrong is because every top flight game is covered by multiple tv cameras from multiple angles. That wasn’t the case until 15/20 years ago and his mistake would have gone unnoticed. It’s only fair to give the officials access to the technology that’s proving them wrong, the pundits and supporters never giving the officials the benefit of understanding that it virtually impossible the get an accurate decision where there are inches involved in a fast moving game.

I don’t think officials get any more wrong than they used to, we’re just able to spot every instance where they’re wrong these days.

CombatClaret · Post by **CombatClaret** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:02 am

Galling if or one two points send us down in the end, so clear to all we were robbed of two points today. To be fair I feel sorry for all team who are sent down on such fine margins and human error, in the modern day the future of a club should not be decided on something so easily provable.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:05 am

martin_p wrote:I don’t thInk it’s anything to do with that. The linesman, as throughout football history, has been asked to make a split second decision. He’s got it wrong. But we only know he’s got it wrong is because every top flight game is covered by multiple tv cameras from multiple angles. That wasn’t the case until 15/20 years ago and his mistake would have gone unnoticed. It’s only fair to give the officials access to the technology that’s proving them wrong, the pundits and supporters never giving the officials the benefit of understanding that it virtually impossible the get an accurate decision where there are inches involved in a fast moving game.

I don’t think officials get any more wrong than they used to, we’re just able to spot every instance where they’re wrong these days.

Possibly. But as offsides go, that decision was a relatively easy one - only two players involved, neither moving very fast at the moment the ball was kicked. The only reasons the linesman could get it wrong (apart from trying to apply the new rule) were because he didn't know when the ball was kicked, or he wasn't thinking about Wood's potential offside when the ball was kicked, or he was just looking in the wrong direction - at an angle instead of straight across. But if "level" still has a meaning in football, you could look at those two players and say that's the definition of level.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:14 am

claretblue wrote:I’ve seen Arsenal score with an arm!

Koscielny scored with his shoulder yesterday but i forgot the rules don't apply to Arsenal do they.

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:15 am

turfytopper wrote:Arms can't be offside.

The goal should have stood.

another who couldn't be bothered reading the thread through

martin_p · Post by **martin_p** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:15 am

dsr wrote:Possibly. But as offsides go, that decision was a relatively easy one - only two players involved, neither moving very fast at the moment the ball was kicked. The only reasons the linesman could get it wrong (apart from trying to apply the new rule) were because he didn't know when the ball was kicked, or he wasn't thinking about Wood's potential offside when the ball was kicked, or he was just looking in the wrong direction - at an angle instead of straight across. But if "level" still has a meaning in football, you could look at those two players and say that's the definition of level.

I think it’s exactly that. Wood isn’t active when McNeill has his shot. It’s not an easy one to call real time and the only reason we know he was level because there was a tv camera with a good angle.

Roosterbooster · Post by **Roosterbooster** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:49 am

Raggus wrote:Hahaha, not difficult? The guy plays on the shoulder, if he got it right every time he would be a miracle man. Not 1 player can do that, the players that come close cost 100's. Give the guy some credit. He wasn't offside today when he scored but the recored books say he was?

He doesn’t really play on the shoulder that much. If you think he does then you either don’t know what that means, or you don’t pay attention. Sorry.
I don’t expect him to be onside 100% of the time.
But I cannot excuse the number of times he is offside when he just strays beyond the back line carelessly.
He was offside 6 times against Watford. That’s just ridiculous.
Timing your run perfectly every time IS difficult.
But getting back onside after a phase of play breaks down, or checking the status of the back line, or holding your run / bending your run until the pass is played is not difficult. It’s basic level coaching. He plays as if he’s never been told any of this

JimmyRobbo · Post by **JimmyRobbo** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:00 am

Vegas Claret wrote:his arm was offside, given they give offside for level nowadays he was offside

VAR my well have ruled him level though because he was. Offside rule needs sorting out because to rule a goal out for an arm is ridiculous

Experts during the week claimed that your arm isn't counted in such a situation as you can not play the ball with it. Feet, legs, shoulders etc are the extremities that are supposed to be measured. By that reasoning, he was onside. Fine margins that big clubs get going in their favour as their skill sees them home whereas pluckly little long ball Burnley could only have scored by cheating.

Edit: Oops, just read a few similar comments to this extent....and they're right too!

Vegas Claret · Post by **Vegas Claret** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:39 am

JimmyRobbo wrote:Experts during the week claimed that your arm isn't counted in such a situation as you can not play the ball with it. Feet, legs, shoulders etc are the extremities that are supposed to be measured. By that reasoning, he was onside. Fine margins that big clubs get going in their favour as their skill sees them home whereas pluckly little long ball Burnley could only have scored by cheating.

Edit: Oops, just read a few similar comments to this extent....and they're right too!

yep and had you read my next comment after my initial one I pointed out I was being sarcastic ! Dreadful decision by the lino

Raggus · Post by **Raggus** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:39 am

Roosterbooster wrote:He doesn’t really play on the shoulder that much. If you think he does then you either don’t know what that means, or you don’t pay attention. Sorry.
I don’t expect him to be onside 100% of the time.
But I cannot excuse the number of times he is offside when he just strays beyond the back line carelessly.
He was offside 6 times against Watford. That’s just ridiculous.
Timing your run perfectly every time IS difficult.
But getting back onside after a phase of play breaks down, or checking the status of the back line, or holding your run / bending your run until the pass is played is not difficult. It’s basic level coaching. He plays as if he’s never been told any of this

Easy to blame the striker tho isn't it, not that the pass should of been made earlier? The ones where he is 'ambling' back onside is usually after chasing down a punt up field, to then have another punt upfield, if you think he can sprint onside, then chase the punt and repeat for 90mins then that is stupid. Sorry.

CharlieinNewMexico · Post by **CharlieinNewMexico** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:52 am

Rileybobs wrote:I can’t remember a single occasion today where he was caught offside ‘standing like a plank’. He was caught offside a few times by playing off the shoulder making runs in behind the defence. On one of those occasions Cork delayed a pass to him causing Wood to be offside.

More to the point it's been going on so long I definitely think he's being told to this. Play tight on the last man, catch a break, distract attention from Barnes, etc etc

Can't see what the fuss is about?

ClaretShaun · Post by **ClaretShaun** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:58 am

Chris Wood is a 1 goal in every 2 starts PL striker.

Vokes and Barnes pretty much the same too.

We’re lucky to have 3 “one in two” strikers who fit into our wage structures.

That’s in not the most of attacking of sides too Ansbro ole that starved of penalties.