United Ireland

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:16 pm

Surely this is the most logical and suitable solution to the Northern Ireland hard border issue?

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:17 pm

Does he play the No 10 role?

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:22 pm

Will this united Ireland be in or out of the EU?

Tribesmen · Post by **Tribesmen** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:26 pm

Not sure this will ever run as too many problems for the south .

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:26 pm

Just allocate the Northern Irish half a million each per household to come and move over here instead of giving the money to the EU.
Cheap at half the price.

Then all the Republicans and Celtic can move back to Ireland and be happy ever after.

BleedingClaret · Post by **BleedingClaret** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:30 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Surely this is the most logical and suitable solution to the Northern Ireland hard border issue?

Yes and if we join with Blackburn Rovers that would seem a logical solution for a bigger Club and Fan base

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:31 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Surely this is the most logical and suitable solution to the Northern Ireland hard border issue?

There would be a return to bloodshed as the Loyalist paramilitaries would mobilise immediately. In addition RoI could never in a million years afford a "re-unification" without massive help from the EU who may not be willing to give it considering they are already on the way to being a basket case.

Definitely not a viable solution to the backstop problem.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:45 pm

In general On our pre-season tours of Northern Ireland I found most of the locals welcoming apart from the odd few bigots.

To put that into proportion also on our pre-season tours to the Republic and Scotland I did not encounter any bigots at all.

The overall atmosphere and friendliness in the Republic was excellent and one of my favourite Countries to visit, and I’ve been to quite a few.

The idea of Ireland retuning to its natural state is something that should happen as soon as from the outside but because some of the boneheads in the North they like to keep the animosities going to suit their own agenda.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:50 pm

South West Claret. wrote:In general On our pre-season tours of Northern Ireland I found most of the locals welcoming apart from the odd few bigots.

To put that into proportion also on our pre-season tours to the Republic and Scotland I did not encounter any bigots at all.

The overall atmosphere and friendliness in the Republic was excellent and one of my favourite Countries to visit, and I’ve been to quite a few.

The idea of Ireland retuning to its natural state is something that should happen as soon as from the outside but because some of the boneheads in the North they like to keep the animosities going to suit their own agenda.

It's natural state? There has never been a united Ireland under a single government, except under UK rule. It was never united before then; it was lots of little kingdoms. No doubt there are plenty of valid arguments about reuniting Ireland, even if many of them do tend to ignore the wishes of the residents; but "reverting to its natural state" isn't one of them.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:04 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Surely this is the most logical and suitable solution to the Northern Ireland hard border issue?

We’re more likely to sign Aguero this window.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:04 pm

dsr wrote:It's natural state? There has never been a united Ireland under a single government, except under UK rule. It was never united before then; it was lots of little kingdoms. No doubt there are plenty of valid arguments about reuniting Ireland, even if many of them do tend to ignore the wishes of the residents; but "reverting to its natural state" isn't one of them.

Don’t talk daft read and digest:

The earliest evidence of human presence in Ireland is dated at 10,500 BC (12,500 years ago). Gaelic Ireland had emerged by the 1st century AD. The island was Christianised from the 5th century onward. Following the 12th century Norman invasion, England claimed sovereignty. However, English rule did not extend over the whole island until the 16th–17th century Tudor conquest, which led to colonisation by settlers from Britain. In the 1690s, a system of Protestant English rule was designed to materially disadvantage the Catholic majority and Protestant dissenters, and was extended during the 18th century. With the Acts of Union in 1801, Ireland became a part of the United Kingdom. A war of independence in the early 20th century was followed by the partition of the island, creating the Irish Free State, which became increasingly sovereign over the following decades, and Northern Ireland, which remained a part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland saw much civil unrest from the late 1960s until the 1990s. This subsided following a political agreement in 1998. In 1973 the Republic of Ireland joined the European Economic Community while the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, as part of it, did the same.

UK rule... don’t be so narrow minded.

piston broke · Post by **piston broke** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:09 pm

Britain has a habit of stealing things and not giving them back, so it won’t happen.
It certainly should but not at the cost of bloodshed.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:11 pm

Or how about the ROI comes under Westminster rule again, problem solved eh.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:14 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Don’t talk daft read and digest:

The earliest evidence of human presence in Ireland is dated at 10,500 BC (12,500 years ago). Gaelic Ireland had emerged by the 1st century AD. The island was Christianised from the 5th century onward. Following the 12th century Norman invasion, England claimed sovereignty. However, English rule did not extend over the whole island until the 16th–17th century Tudor conquest, which led to colonisation by settlers from Britain. In the 1690s, a system of Protestant English rule was designed to materially disadvantage the Catholic majority and Protestant dissenters, and was extended during the 18th century. With the Acts of Union in 1801, Ireland became a part of the United Kingdom. A war of independence in the early 20th century was followed by the partition of the island, creating the Irish Free State, which became increasingly sovereign over the following decades, and Northern Ireland, which remained a part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland saw much civil unrest from the late 1960s until the 1990s. This subsided following a political agreement in 1998. In 1973 the Republic of Ireland joined the European Economic Community while the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, as part of it, did the same.

UK rule... don’t be so narrow minded.

Narrow minded? I said, as a statement of fact, that Ireland had never been united except under UK rule. You have produced a long paragraph that contradicts me not at all, and then say that I'm narrow minded? Why?

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:15 pm

South West Claret. wrote:In general On our pre-season tours of Northern Ireland I found most of the locals welcoming apart from the odd few bigots.

To put that into proportion also on our pre-season tours to the Republic and Scotland I did not encounter any bigots at all.

The overall atmosphere and friendliness in the Republic was excellent and one of my favourite Countries to visit, and I’ve been to quite a few.

The idea of Ireland retuning to its natural state is something that should happen as soon as from the outside but because some of the boneheads in the North they like to keep the animosities going to suit their own agenda.

"Natural state". So, what's that then, people should get out and let the vegetation grow wild? And maybe put the damned snakes back as well after Patrick got rid of them? What drivel!

DCWat · Post by **DCWat** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:17 pm

It’ll be voted on in Northern Ireland in the future, I’m sure. If and when the Catholic minority in NI becomes a majority, things may change.

What that brings though, God only knows.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:24 pm

DCWat wrote:It’ll be voted on in Northern Ireland in the future, I’m sure. If and when the Catholic minority in NI becomes a majority, things may change.

What that brings though, God only knows.

There is some polling that suggests a hard Brexit might also push things that way. With a decreasing Loyalist proportion of the population, plus of course globalisation and immigration increasing the number of people who don't have a dog in that fight and just want what's easiest, there's a suggestion that the difficulties (real and/or perceived) of a hard Brexit might tip the balance to the point where a poll needed to be called.

It would be an unholy mess.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:32 pm

dsr wrote:Narrow minded? I said, as a statement of fact, that Ireland had never been united except under UK rule. You have produced a long paragraph that contradicts me not at all, and then say that I'm narrow minded? Why?

Clearly you have not "read and digested" or you wouldn't have come back with that statement.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:33 pm

thatdberight wrote:"Natural state". So, what's that then, people should get out and let the vegetation grow wild? And maybe put the damned snakes back as well after Patrick got rid of them? What drivel!

What a bone headed response.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:36 pm

South West Claret. wrote:What a bone headed response.

Did you just learn "bone headed" today? Perhaps tomorrow, you'll move on to spelling it correctly as one word.

You have no idea what you're talking about; as evidenced by your posts on this thread. Not that it's ever stopped you before...

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:44 pm

thatdberight wrote:Did you just learn "bone headed" today? Perhaps tomorrow, you'll move on to spelling it correctly as one word.

You have no idea what you're talking about; as evidenced by your posts on this thread. Not that it's ever stopped you before...

I suggest you have a cup of tea and calm down old fruit.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:07 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Don’t talk daft read and digest:

The earliest evidence of human presence in Ireland is dated at 10,500 BC (12,500 years ago). Gaelic Ireland had emerged by the 1st century AD. The island was Christianised from the 5th century onward. Following the 12th century Norman invasion, England claimed sovereignty. However, English rule did not extend over the whole island until the 16th–17th century Tudor conquest, which led to colonisation by settlers from Britain. In the 1690s, a system of Protestant English rule was designed to materially disadvantage the Catholic majority and Protestant dissenters, and was extended during the 18th century. With the Acts of Union in 1801, Ireland became a part of the United Kingdom. A war of independence in the early 20th century was followed by the partition of the island, creating the Irish Free State, which became increasingly sovereign over the following decades, and Northern Ireland, which remained a part of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland saw much civil unrest from the late 1960s until the 1990s. This subsided following a political agreement in 1998. In 1973 the Republic of Ireland joined the European Economic Community while the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, as part of it, did the same.

UK rule... don’t be so narrow minded.

Even before the Norman invasion the island was never a single united country. The Vikings occupied and owned much of the north and west with 3 separate tribal areas with different chieftains for each, the Celts had 2 different tribal areas each having their own independent chieftain and the Britons had a couple of areas, especially around the Pale (Dublin) that, again, had separate and independent chieftains. There were chiefs who declared themselves King of Ireland but none ever managed to achieve control of more than half the tribal areas.

And, to be honest, South West Claret, your quote reads like part of the IRA prospectus rather than an independent account of the island's history!

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:16 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I suggest you have a cup of tea and calm down old fruit.

Why you think I should spend my time spreading serenity to out-of-date lemons is lost on me.

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:18 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:We’re more likely to sign Aguero this window.

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

"In December 2017, an opinion poll carried out by LucidTalk on more than 2,000 people saw 47.9% of respondents willing to vote for a united Ireland if a border poll was held in the event of a hard Brexit, against 45.4 for maintaining the status quo.[58] 6% of respondents were undecided, and less than 1% of respondents stated that they would not vote."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ir ... ic_opinion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:22 pm

bfcmik wrote:Even before the Norman invasion the island was never a single united country. The Vikings occupied and owned much of the north and west with 3 separate tribal areas with different chieftains for each, the Celts had 2 different tribal areas each having their own independent chieftain and the Britons had a couple of areas, especially around the Pale (Dublin) that, again, had separate and independent chieftains. There were chiefs who declared themselves King of Ireland but none ever managed to achieve control of more than half the tribal areas.

And, to be honest, South West Claret, your quote reads like part of the IRA prospectus rather than an independent account of the island's history!

Oh so now I'm charged guilty of being "like part of the IRA prospectus" good grief some of you need to get a grip of modern thinking in the these matters...unless of course you have sympathies in some part.

Just in case that you "might" be interested that quote was from Wikipedia which the vast majority intelligent people regard as a very reliable and accountable source.

LeadBelly · Post by **LeadBelly** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:41 pm

If the majority of voters in NI wish to join the ROI and the majority of voters in the ROI wish to accept NI into their domain- then "united Ireland" is a good solution all round.
I doubt that the first bit of this would be the case at the moment but, as the catholic population is outgrowing the protestant population, it may be in the not too distant future.
I've no idea how the 2nd bit would go. I'm sure many in ROI would in theory want unification but would they be willing to accept the consequences that could arise from hard-liners in the north + probable damper on the overall economy? Has there been any surveys on this I wonder?

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:43 pm

I was thinking exactly this last week. The whole problem with the deal seems to revolve around the Irish border so give Northern Ireland to the Irish and let them have self-rule. This would also solve the problem of us being held to ransom by 10 bloody Irishmen (and women). Job done.

thatdberight · Post by **thatdberight** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:48 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Oh so now I'm charged guilty of being "like part of the IRA prospectus" good grief some of you need to get a grip of modern thinking in the these matters...unless of course you have sympathies in some part.

Just in case that you "might" be interested that quote was from Wikipedia which the vast majority intelligent people regard as a very reliable and accountable source.

The problem isn't the source of your quote; it's the fact that it completely contradicted your stance...

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 4:51 pm

thatdberight wrote:Why you think I should spend my time spreading serenity to out-of-date lemons is lost on me.

That made me giggle and splutter my coffee!

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:09 pm

Sorting a Northern Ireland Island where the Dutch, English and Scots Puritans traders settled from the 1500's, Governed all Island with British backing for hundreds of years? Wish someone else had thought of 'just giving it back'

SGr · Post by **SGr** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:35 pm

Northern Ireland is very fragile. Changing the status quo would no doubt lead to a lot of violence from either side.

expoultryboy · Post by **expoultryboy** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:40 pm

Will somebody take cricketfieldclarets fishing rod off him , he's not even bothering to put a maggot on !!

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:58 pm

thatdberight wrote:The problem isn't the source of your quote; it's the fact that it completely contradicted your stance...

Time waster go an argue with yourself.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:11 pm

The sooner cricketfieldclarets gets a new job or a new hobby the better. These transfer "rumours" and "controversial" threads are tiresome.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Rowls wrote:The sooner cricketfieldclarets gets a new job or a new hobby the better. These transfer "rumours" and "controversial" threads are tiresome.

Rowls, you are only jealous because he's as good as you!

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:13 pm

Rowls wrote:The sooner cricketfieldclarets gets a new job or a new hobby the better. These transfer "rumours" and "controversial" threads are tiresome.

Personal abuse will get you a one month ba...

nvm. you're one of the ones allowed to do it.

Burnleyareback2 · Post by **Burnleyareback2** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:19 pm

Stupid idea.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:35 pm

The solution to the Ireland problem: send all of those damn Scots back to where they came from.

Garnerssoap · Post by **Garnerssoap** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:03 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Surely this is the most logical and suitable solution to the Northern Ireland hard border issue?

Angling times want your pic. Well played op

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:33 pm

Rowls wrote:The sooner cricketfieldclarets gets a new job or a new hobby the better. These transfer "rumours" and "controversial" threads are tiresome.

I start next Friday. Only so many nappies I can change in the meantime

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:36 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:I start next Friday. Only so many nappies I can change in the meantime

Oh thank Bob Lord!

All the best with it, and the nappies.

bobinho · Post by **bobinho** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:45 pm

I don't know what the solution here is... maybe the people of Ireland have the solution.

Maybe someone should ask them.

I don't think we should get involved tho...we have already sold out too many people by letting terrorists and murderers walk free due to our legendary negotiating skills.

South West Claret. · Post by **South West Claret.** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:39 pm

bobinho wrote:I don't know what the solution here is... maybe the people of Ireland have the solution.

Maybe someone should ask them.

I don't think we should get involved tho...we have already sold out too many people by letting terrorists and murderers walk free due to our legendary negotiating skills.

Afraid we are already involved.

box_of_frogs · Post by **box_of_frogs** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:40 pm

Test User wrote:Someone hasn't been paying attention.

"In December 2017, an opinion poll carried out by LucidTalk on more than 2,000 people saw 47.9% of respondents willing to vote for a united Ireland if a border poll was held in the event of a hard Brexit, against 45.4 for maintaining the status quo.[58] 6% of respondents were undecided, and less than 1% of respondents stated that they would not vote."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ir ... ic_opinion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

87% of statistics are made up.

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:52 pm

South West Claret. wrote:In general On our pre-season tours of Northern Ireland I found most of the locals welcoming apart from the odd few bigots.

To put that into proportion also on our pre-season tours to the Republic and Scotland I did not encounter any bigots at all.

The overall atmosphere and friendliness in the Republic was excellent and one of my favourite Countries to visit, and I’ve been to quite a few.

The idea of Ireland retuning to its natural state is something that should happen as soon as from the outside but because some of the boneheads in the North they like to keep the animosities going to suit their own agenda.

Uninformed and frankly ....... comment

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:20 pm

I have always advocated giving the jocks, paddies and taffs their independence. Let them forge their own destinies.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:23 pm

There is a continuing political tension between NI and the ROI,and yet in a few weeks the whole of Ireland will unite during the 6 nations tournament,i think in a couple of generations hopefully religion will no longer be the primary factor in people's voting habits,and Ireland either as a single entity or friendly neighbours will co-exist in peace,but this maybe wishful thinking.

Test User · Post by **Test User** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:29 pm

box_of_frogs wrote:87% of statistics are made up.

Translation: "The ones i don't like are made up."

atlantalad · Post by **atlantalad** » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:37 pm

tiger76 wrote:There is a continuing political tension between NI and the ROI,and yet in a few weeks the whole of Ireland will unite during the 6 nations tournament,i think in a couple of generations hopefully religion will no longer be the primary factor in people's voting habits,and Ireland either as a single entity or friendly neighbours will co-exist in peace,but this maybe wishful thinking.

There is a pick and chosing of, and inaccuracies of, Irish history going on on this thread.
The anomosity between the populous in NI has almost always, and wrongly, been attributed to divisions along religious lines. Through history there were many leading protestant as well as catholics wanting a home rule for the whole of the island of Ireland most notably: Wolfe Tone (1798 rebellion) Charles Stewart Parnell, and Erskine Childers (1916 Easter Rising).

Hence, if there was no religion in Ireland we would still have the same bigots squabbling. Sadly, the bigots divisions are rooted in their ancestorial support for either James 11 ( of England) or Willaim of Orange ( yep the Dutch guy). I find it really ironic the unionist ( an ironic label if ever there was one) want to remain with the UK yet their history and parading lies with the support of a dutchmans' led army to conquer supporters of an english King.

Logically, the unionist should really be wholeheartedly in support of remaining in the EU to keep with their dutch cousins.

criminalclaret · Post by **criminalclaret** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:00 am

Whilst attitudes and relations are greatly improved in day to day life living and working over here, United Ireland is much more of a pipe dream than any remote realtity.

Having a unification under the euro would affect heavily the Irish economy which is booming at the moment, particularly in Dublin. Irish govt would never entertain such a thought unless there was safeguards and provisions in place before hand.

Whilst culturally both come together for sport (Rugby and GAA) and music, politically they are much much more divided. Irish republicans would have to deal with loyalist relations with great sensitivity, one small catalyst can inflame quickly as the last 50 years have shown.

NI, isn't Irish or British. It's Northern Irish. They have an autonomy and identity that they see as neither British or RoI. And they are very proud of that identity. By chucking them into another country removes this entirely.

During a discussion with my a Irish friend of mine of mine he said jokingly "You can always give it back you know". To which I replied how many times he'd been to Belfast in his life as he lives less than an hour away..."Never, nor do I have any intention of doing". So in some Irish there is a impression that it's "us letting the Nordies in where they rightfully deserve" instead of two countries merging together with independent and shared cultures and histories.

If it ever happened it would be a slow integration over time, and to say there's only been 20 years of relative peace youre looking at another 20 with the young generation a chance to choose how they want to progress.

Source: am British living in RoI for 5 years and live with a Nordie and RoI flatmate