Rafa - sign me players or I am off...

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:44 pm

in the summer

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/20 ... -sign-new/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

FactualFrank · Post by **FactualFrank** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:50 pm

Diddums

Steddyman · Post by **Steddyman** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:54 pm

I wish Sean was more like that. The board wouldn't be so keen to sit on what they have if Sean wasn't so understanding.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:55 pm

To some degree, Ashley is technically running Newcastle like Burnley. But he does so with such a lack of transparency and with evident self-interest the models seem miles apart. If he open the purse strings a bit more, and was more open with fans too about a self-sustaining vision for the club they could buy into. He might have a chance. Especially given they have a top quality manager, the replacement of which won't be anywhere near.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:05 pm

I don't think Sean Dyche would come out and say things to the effect of "my players aren't good enough and unless I get some better ones I will be off".

It's a north-east habit, it seems. Moyes at Sunderland and Karanka at Middlesbrough both said something on the same lines, making it clear to their own players that they weren't good enough.

houseboy · Post by **houseboy** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:11 pm

I wonder how long it will be before this becomes a 'Dyche to Newcastle' thread.

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:15 pm

Expectations at SJP are unrealistically high, they love their team and football up here yet success eludes them. Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman with outstanding loans to the club, Benitez is possibly over-rated not least by himself.
A collision is impending, watch this space!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:36 pm

CleggHall wrote:Expectations at SJP are unrealistically high, they love their team and football up here yet success eludes them. Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman with outstanding loans to the club, Benitez is possibly over-rated not least by himself.
A collision is impending, watch this space!

Totally agree CleggHall. Ashley has actually kept the club afloat and he knows what price he would sell at because he would wish to get his money back.
Rafa keeps pontificating ad nauseam, some fans keep demonstraing ad nauseam and Ashley just seems to ignore them all, which he is entitled to do.
The collision has been impending for quite some time. I had a bit of fun on one of their boards and gave them a way that they could get their 50,000+ fans to club together and buy the club of Ashley --needless to day, they were not too keen although it wouldn't have cost them a fantastic amount!

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:49 pm

Rafa is easily one of the best managers in the league and no one can blame him for demanding more.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:52 pm

Benitez has spent way more than Dyche on players and players salaries

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:53 pm

Right_winger wrote:Rafa is easily one of the best managers in the league and no one can blame him for demanding more.

Benitez is easily one of the most overrated managers in the league

Silkyskills1 · Post by **Silkyskills1** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:54 pm

'Benitez is possibly over-rated'

His record as a manager doesn't support that notion. Personally think he's an excellent manager. He 'did for us' tactically a few weeks back.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:00 pm

joey13 wrote:Benitez is easily one of the most overrated managers in the league

Very good, showing of your knowledge again I see, or lack of it.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:02 pm

Right_winger wrote:Rafa is easily one of the best managers in the league and no one can blame him for demanding more.

If he is one of the best managers in the league, shouldn't his players be higher up the league? Above Burnley, and comfortably above Cardiff?

BigChaCha · Post by **BigChaCha** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:03 pm

To some degree, Ashley is technically running Newcastle like Burnley. But he does so with such a lack of transparency and with evident self-interest the models seem miles apart

Except the expectation levels are completely different!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:21 pm

joey13 wrote:Benitez has spent way more than Dyche on players and players salaries

In his time at Newcastle, their net spend has been in profit by £21.07 million because they offloaded Mitrovic, Sissoko, Andy Townsend, Wijnaldum and Janmaat for decent money.

The big spend at Newcastle came earlier in the season that Benitez became manager. Steve McLaren was manager and they spent a net sum of £103.28 million at the start of the 2015/16 season and Benitez took over in March 2016.
This is why he keeps pressing Ashley for more and more to spend.

Tall Paul · Post by **Tall Paul** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:34 pm

joey13 wrote:Benitez is easily one of the most overrated managers in the league

He's one of the highest paid as well.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:43 pm

dsr wrote:If he is one of the best managers in the league, shouldn't his players be higher up the league? Above Burnley, and comfortably above Cardiff?

You just need to look at his record as a manager to see his credentials. For example Dyche will never ever come close to emulating Rafa.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:55 pm

Right_winger wrote:You just need to look at his record as a manager to see his credentials. For example Dyche will never ever come close to emulating Rafa.

I've just looked at it. He did well with Valencia, but failed to win any titles with Liverpool, Inter Milan, Chelsea, Napoli, or Real Madrid. OK, you can argue that Dyche hasn't won any league titles either, but that might be because of relative resources being less?

One thing Benitez does have in his resume - a long list of clubs where he claimed that failure wasn't his fault. At Inter, he was demanding new players because the ones he inherited weren't good enough - they had only won the treble of Italian League, talian Cup, and Champions League the year before!

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:59 pm

dsr wrote:I've just looked at it. He did well with Valencia, but failed to win any titles with Liverpool, Inter Milan, Chelsea, Napoli, or Real Madrid.

Only a Champions League with Liverpool!! and a second final nothing really

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:01 pm

dsr wrote:I've just looked at it. He did well with Valencia, but failed to win any titles with Liverpool, Inter Milan, Chelsea, Napoli, or Real Madrid. OK, you can argue that Dyche hasn't won any league titles either, but that might be because of relative resources being less?

One thing Benitez does have in his resume - a long list of clubs where he claimed that failure wasn't his fault. At Inter, he was demanding new players because the ones he inherited weren't good enough - they had only won the treble of Italian League, talian Cup, and Champions League the year before!

Jeezo you are so far off it it’s not even worth my time debating you.

Not won any titles with Liverpool, ( apart from the champions league but that doesn’t count I suppose )

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:11 pm

Right_winger wrote:Not won any titles with Liverpool, ( apart from the champions league but that doesn’t count I suppose )

League titles. A great manager would have won league titles.

You don't get a full all=round view of how good a manager is until he has managed clubs that he would expect to win leagues with, and clubs that he wouldn't. Newcastle wouldn't expect to win titles, but they ought to be doing better than they are.

aggi · Post by **aggi** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:23 pm

Ashingtonclaret46 wrote:In his time at Newcastle, their net spend has been in profit by £21.07 million because they offloaded Mitrovic, Sissoko, Andy Townsend, Wijnaldum and Janmaat for decent money.

The big spend at Newcastle came earlier in the season that Benitez became manager. Steve McLaren was manager and they spent a net sum of £103.28 million at the start of the 2015/16 season and Benitez took over in March 2016.
This is why he keeps pressing Ashley for more and more to spend.

You need to look at the wages too for the full picture at Newcastle. They've had huge wages in previous seasons, they had a top six premier league wage bill (well over £100m) in the Championship.

They may have cut that down a bit now but I'd be very surprised if their wages were lower than ours. Those wages are the reason they can't afford new signings.

Loyalclaret · Post by **Loyalclaret** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:29 pm

When we played earlier in season the radio stated we were 3 lowest wages and Newcastle were fourth

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:32 pm

dsr wrote:League titles. A great manager would have won league titles.

You don't get a full all=round view of how good a manager is until he has managed clubs that he would expect to win leagues with, and clubs that he wouldn't. Newcastle wouldn't expect to win titles, but they ought to be doing better than they are.

You say that as though it's easy to go and win a league title. At Liverpool he was competing with Fergies United side and at Napoli with the financial clout of Juve. And he's massively overachieved at Newcastle with the players he's got. Finished 10th I think last season and I'd back him to keep them up this season.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:32 pm

They paid £112m in wages in the Championship year, 2016-17. Some of that was bonuses and payments to dead wood, but even so, I doubt they dropped the wage bill when they got promotion.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:32 pm

He's just a fat Spanish waiter.

willsclarets · Post by **willsclarets** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:34 pm

BigChaCha wrote:Except the expectation levels are completely different!

Wouldn't disagree with that! Absolutely right, but I think everyone's aware of how competitive and difficult the premier league is. If Ashley spent a little more to give him a chance of reaching the top 10-12 even, I think their supporters would be a lot happier. At the moment they're giving Benitez no chance. I

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:36 pm

Why should the owner spend silly, over the top money on players when he is selling the club?

fatboy47 · Post by **fatboy47** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:47 pm

Poor man's Manuel.

Couldn't lace Dyche's boots.

Winstonswhite · Post by **Winstonswhite** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:48 pm

Benitez is massively overrated and I’m sick to death of hearing about Newcastle fans’ “plight”.

They say Astley is running the club into debt but he still should spend more money (even though he’s owed 150 million). Total hypocrisy.

Benitez, what is it, 15 years and counting since he won anything of note? Fat Sam was run out of that club for being defensive whilst the Spanish waiter is hailed as “a tactical genius”.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:26 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:Benitez is massively overrated and I’m sick to death of hearing about Newcastle fans’ “plight”.

They say Astley is running the club into debt but he still should spend more money (even though he’s owed 150 million). Total hypocrisy.

Benitez, what is it, 15 years and counting since he won anything of note? Fat Sam was run out of that club for being defensive whilst the Spanish waiter is hailed as “a tactical genius”.

The fans absolutely hated Big Sam and they did everything they could to get rid of him. When he went, Newcastle had played 21 matches won 7 drawn 5 and lost 9 scored 27 conceded 33 points 26. Their home record was won 5 drawn 3 lost 3 for 16 against 17.
The same stage this season when they had played 21 they had won 4 drawn 6 and lost 11 scored 18 and conceded 26 points 18 but the fans are happy and blame Ashley for everything. Their home record to this point was won 2 drawn 1 lost 8 for 7 against 17.
It is strange living in this hotbed of football and listening to opinions,

Giftonsnoidea · Post by **Giftonsnoidea** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:37 pm

Good manager let down by Ashley not buying players, seems fair enough

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Winstonswhite wrote:Benitez is massively overrated and I’m sick to death of hearing about Newcastle fans’ “plight”.

They say Astley is running the club into debt but he still should spend more money (even though he’s owed 150 million). Total hypocrisy.

Benitez, what is it, 15 years and counting since he won anything of note? Fat Sam was run out of that club for being defensive whilst the Spanish waiter is hailed as “a tactical genius”.

Perhaps "Astley" should be singing to Rafa

"Never gonna give you up"

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:57 pm

Rafa will be off in the summer, regardless of a transfer kitty, if Ashley is still in charge.
He's done a great job , under the circumstances, and many a club would be glad to have him.

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:08 pm

Right_winger wrote:Very good, showing of your knowledge again I see, or lack of it.

That’s rich coming from someone who thinks he is a better manager than Dyche

alpo · Post by **alpo** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:09 pm

Benitez didn't win the champions leagie at Liverpool, he was given it by Milan. Over-rated for me and at his level.

bfcjg · Post by **bfcjg** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:09 pm

I think Benitez is one of the most boring overrated managers around.

Right_winger · Post by **Right_winger** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:57 pm

joey13 wrote:That’s rich coming from someone who thinks he is a better manager than Dyche

Are you smoking crack? You seriously think Rafa isn’t as good as Dyche?

Tell me again what Rafa has won as a manager and compare it to Dyche.

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:28 pm

How do you compare managers when one has been doing the job for 26 years and won nothing in his first 9 seasons before moving on to a club who were financially quite strong and he won the league with?
Sean Dyche has been a manager for just under 8 years so it is a worthless comparison.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:32 pm

If he went its inevitable that its Dyche to Newcastle. Would be an excellent move for them and sadly for us also a very good move for him!

Colburn_Claret · Post by **Colburn_Claret** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:11 am

I don't think Sean or many other managers would fancy working for Ashley. Managing Newcastle would be a pull, but would it be worth it.

cricketfieldclarets · Post by **cricketfieldclarets** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:53 am

Billionaire owner
Huge stadium
Huge pulling power
History of producing young talent
Large catchment area with little competition
Passionate fans
Great potential
Well known club around the world

If Dyche can do what he can here, imagine what he would do there!

Ashingtonclaret46 · Post by **Ashingtonclaret46** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:51 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Billionaire owner
Huge stadium
Huge pulling power
History of producing young talent
Large catchment area with little competition
Passionate fans
Great potential
Well known club around the world

If Dyche can do what he can here, imagine what he would do there!

You forgot to mention:- Expectations far outweighing capabilities without Ashley selling the club or some other major outside investment ---neither seems to be happening in the near future.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:59 am

Geordies - "We are a massive club, we have a massive fan base, we demand success. Mike Ashley you pay for it. Your whole business empire has to be run for our benefit. Don't even think about making it more expensive for us to watch though. You must bankrupt yourself so we can have a couple of years of top half finishes in the Premier League. When all of your money is gone someone else will come along to bankroll us because WE ARE NEWCASTLE."

CleggHall · Post by **CleggHall** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:04 am

That one Keegan season when finally out-psyched and out-punched by the wily Ferguson still looms large in Geordie minds.

Chester Perry · Post by **Chester Perry** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:09 am

to be fair Chobulous there are a very lot of clubs like that and an ever increasingly vocal contingent within our own (at least on this board) - it is the Premier League virus - if you have been in it (a lot have) the sense of entitlement never leaves some.

Chobulous · Post by **Chobulous** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:18 am

Chester Perry wrote:to be fair Chobulous there are a very lot of clubs like that and an ever increasingly vocal contingent within our own (at least on this board) - it is the Premier League virus - if you have been in it (a lot have) the sense of entitlement never leaves some.

True but the Geordies have made into an art form over the last few years to the extent that any Geordie connection allows you to jump on the bandwagon.

At the weekend - the Hairy Bikers interviewing a Russian oligarch. Quote on TV -"Can you please buy our football club, Newcastle United, so that we can get rid of the idiot in charge" It's like a fat bellied version of #MeToo.

JTClaret · Post by **JTClaret** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:17 pm

I don't get the Newcastle / Ashley thing to be honest.
They have some good players on big wages and a huge-name manager on a huge wage, yet apparently Mike Ashley does nothing but take money.

Lots of mentions of Dyche, but Rafa tries to manage players whereas Dyche manages the whole club, in the sense he is the voice of the club - Garlick doesn't say a lot, but Dyche tells us what is happening and how it is, even if we don't like it. He even started here with the whole One Club Mentality campaign.
Newcastle fans complain about Ashley, Ashley gets the best manager he can. Fans still complain. Rafa complains about wanting better players. Fans complain Ashley won't give them money because they want better players. I'm sure the players feel good enough and wanted.

If it keeps up, Newcastle will go down, because when that time of the season comes, it'll turn toxic again.

Dyched · Post by **Dyched** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:42 pm

The major problem is this

https://www.transfermarkt.com/newcastle ... verein/762" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There a nothing club. What have they ever done. Oooh so they get big crowds. And taking your shirt off in -38 degrees doesn’t make you passionate