Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

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clarethomer
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Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by clarethomer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 pm

Given how much of match day revenue contributes these days to a clubs financial success, I can't really accept that there is a valid argument for UK broadcasters to be able to show 3pm kick offs similarly like the do abroad for Premier League games.

Surely if the broadcasters could pay for those rights, this means more money for the clubs.

It could be conditional that UK Domestic rights have to used towards reducing costs for supporters - including a premium for the lower leagues to ensure that the cost of PL football becomes more attractive than EFL games on the whole.

Im not convinced that by doing this, it would cause attendance issues if thought out fully and the system was designed to actually attend your clubs home games.

As an example using our club, surely there could be a way to offer a Physical Season Ticket where you are able to watch home games live in the ground and a digital away game Season Ticket that allowed you to get away games on a stream/tv channel.

I would propose that you could also buy a digital ST pass for homegames aswell but you could consider restricting this geographically to a distance lived away from the ground by location. To qualify for this you would need to prove by having ID & Address verification that qualifies you and your clarets number being linked to this address also.

Probably some pie in the sky thinking but watching a stream in the UK for football seems to becoming socially the norm and accepted. Not many people I know cry on about piracy or it being something to be ashamed of. Just need the clubs to get their head around this as Im pretty sure there is more money in it for them and similar to netflix/spotify etc, if the price is reasonable for the product and easily accessible on a stable platform, you will get good uptake and a move away from those streams coming from abroad. The advertising revenue etc would be massive potentially.

Do you think we will ever get to a point where being able to watch your team becomes easily done through official channels?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Siddo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:33 pm

No.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:33 pm

They're trying to do this on IFollow in the lower leagues. They are currently allowed to stream mid week matches or Saturday 3pm on International weekends. It costs £10 per match showing.

Some clubs are fighting it because it hits gates, especially away followings.

The downside is it's already been copied. On my IPTV server I can get all premier league games and every lower league game that is recorded for IFollow. Every championship game has a stream but I'm not sure if that's Ifollow or live matches filmed for abroad?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by whiffa » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:34 pm

Any excuse to stop fans going to games is a bad idea, and always will be.

Why not play all matches at the same ground, all indoors with no spectators to save all clubs money too whilst you're at it? ;)

You cannot and never will be able to beat the real thing. The atmosphere is everything.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:43 pm

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing, the balance of course is to have a subscription live service for people who live over say 150 miles away, this should see attendances mainly unafected and extra revenue for all the clubs who sell this service.

The trick is for the get technicians to limit sales to people only all those miles away.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:45 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I find myself agreeing and disagreeing, the balance of course is to have a subscription live service for people who live over say 150 miles away, this should see attendances mainly unafected and extra revenue for all the clubs who sell this service.

The trick is for the get technicians to limit sales to people only all those miles away.
As soon as you have a live feed it will be on streaming sites and IPTV. How can you limit it to 150 miles away?

The only clubs that would benefit are the ones that sell their grounds out.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by JTClaret » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:46 pm

I don't think saying 'it can't happen' is of any use.
I think it inevitably will happen, and all it will take is the media or the big clubs to take a stand and the FA will cave.

For me, in an ideal world a deal should be made that compensate the lower league teams if it were to wipe out their attendance, so no clubs suffer financially - it's then up to them to encourage people to go to games, be it better players or additional entertainment - I don't know.

You can listen to, or even watch a gig of a band on youtube or spotify, but the big names always still sell out, and local bands still attended.
Football will go the same way

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:47 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:As soon as you have a live feed it will be on streaming sites and IPTV. How can you limit it to 150 miles away?

The only clubs that would benefit are the ones that sell their grounds out.
Read my last line.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by DCWat » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:52 pm

To be avoided unless it’s shared monies and the big clubs won’t be having that.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by houseboy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:52 pm

whiffa wrote:Any excuse to stop fans going to games is a bad idea, and always will be.

Why not play all matches at the same ground, all indoors with no spectators to save all clubs money too whilst you're at it? ;)

You cannot and never will be able to beat the real thing. The atmosphere is everything.
Agreed, the only TV football I watch is MotD (occasionally) and foreign stuff (South American usually). I very occasionally watch Scottish and Irish highlights as well (probably more than MotD). I have zero interest in the PL other than our lads.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:52 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Read my last line.
Do you know much about the music scene?

Apart from the big bands, it's quite dead. People avoid the upcoming local bands in favour of tribute bands these days I'm afraid.

Music venues close as fast as pubs.
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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Burnley Ace » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:53 pm

It’s to protect the smaller clubs. Would you go to watch a league two game if you could sit at home and eat h all the Prem games?

We would but we arent normal fans!!!

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by houseboy » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:10 pm

JTClaret wrote:I don't think saying 'it can't happen' is of any use.
I think it inevitably will happen, and all it will take is the media or the big clubs to take a stand and the FA will cave.

For me, in an ideal world a deal should be made that compensate the lower league teams if it were to wipe out their attendance, so no clubs suffer financially - it's then up to them to encourage people to go to games, be it better players or additional entertainment - I don't know.

You can listen to, or even watch a gig of a band on youtube or spotify, but the big names always still sell out, and local bands still attended.
Football will go the same way
But the financial compensation is pointless. The whole point of football is that it is a spectator sport that creates an atmosphere and a spectacle, otherwise you wind up with empty or half-empty grounds, which in turn would ruin the sport as a TV excercise because no-one would want to watch games with no atmosphere, then the TV companies would stop paying the clubs and the clubs would have to get people back into the grounds, by which time they've lost the habit of actually attending games and the clubs may well die (along with much of football). Unfortunately many people fail to see that money and compensation are not the answer to everything.

The gig analogy is not an argument as a gig by your favourite band or artist may happen (if you're lucky) once a year in your area whereas football matches are regularly occuring items, people will attend one-offs in the way small clubs fill their grounds when a big club visits but get nowhere near full on most games.

The answer is quite simply get to a game or even listen to away games on local radio because what we need desperately right now is LESS football on TV. The overkill of coverage is starting to get boring. Saw a great spoof last night on a programme of Bob Mortimers favourite sketches, it was Mitchell and Webbs p!ss take of Sky Sports advertising, extremely over the top but so true. Anyone who ain't seen it Google it and take a look, brilliant.
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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:16 pm

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by ŽižkovClaret » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:41 pm

I'd like to see organised limited beam back where you can see your away game on TV, but only in the hospitality sections etc of the away team's home ground, if that makes sense?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:47 pm

BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE fReE mArKeT? bLoOdY cOmMuLiStS rUiNiNg FoOtBaLl!!!
We NeEd To LeAvE tHe Eu BeCaUsE pRoTeCtIoNiSm Is AlWaYs BaD bUt We MuStN'T hAvE lIvE fOoTbAlL oN tV bEcAuSe We HaVe To PrOtEcT tHe FoOtBaLl ClUbS gAtE rEcEiPtS.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Bosscat » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:51 pm

Test User wrote:BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE fReE mArKeT? bLoOdY cOmMuLiStS rUiNiNg FoOtBaLl!!!
We NeEd To LeAvE tHe Eu BeCaUsE pRoTeCtIoNiSm Is AlWaYs BaD bUt We MuStN'T hAvE lIvE fOoTbAlL oN tV bEcAuSe We HaVe To PrOtEcT tHe FoOtBaLl ClUbS gAtE rEcEiPtS.
Wtf is a cOmMuLiSt?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:56 pm

Bosscat wrote:Wtf is a cOmMuLiSt?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sargon of Akkad (i think) called communists it once. Saw it in someone else's youtube video.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by BOYSIE31 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:02 pm

I think in 5 years time you will be able to pay per view any game in english football all the way down to some non league clubs.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:02 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:Do you know much about the music scene?

Apart from the big bands, it's quite dead. People avoid the upcoming local bands in favour of tribute bands these days I'm afraid.

Music venues close as fast as pubs.

Not sure what your getting at there QTT.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Quickenthetempo » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:22 pm

South West Claret. wrote:Not sure what your getting at there QTT.
YouTube and the like have destroyed album sales which makes it the main source of income to tour. But it's only for the elite.

More streaming of football will mean only the elite benefit as music.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:30 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:YouTube and the like have destroyed album sales which makes it the main source of income to tour. But it's only for the elite.

More streaming of football will mean only the elite benefit as music.
[Citation needed]

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by ClaretTony » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:42 pm

3 p.m. kick offs on a Saturday on TV would have a devastating effect on non-league football. Hope it is never permitted.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by thatdberight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:42 pm

Test User wrote:[Citation needed]
So what do you think has resulted in drastic falls in the sales of recorded music?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:42 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:YouTube and the like have destroyed album sales which makes it the main source of income to tour. But it's only for the elite.

More streaming of football will mean only the elite benefit as music.
I see what you mean with Music but why should Football Clubs suffer in the same way surely there are copyright and legal issues.

Also can they not put something within the broadcast that prevents pirating of matches.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by thatdberight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:49 pm

South West Claret. wrote:I see what you mean with Music but why should Football Clubs suffer in the same way surely there are copyright and legal issues.

Also can they not put something within the broadcast that prevents pirating of matches.
Well, since there are multiple posters on here offering to show you how to access pirate feeds, obviously, no, they can't stop piracy that easily.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:50 pm

thatdberight wrote:So what do you think has resulted in drastic falls in the sales of recorded music?
First i expect you to present evidence that sales of recorded music have drastically fallen.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by thatdberight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:59 pm

Test User wrote:First i expect you to present evidence that sales of recorded music have drastically fallen.
You're going to be disappointed in that expectation.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:04 pm

thatdberight wrote:You're going to be disappointed in that expectation.

That's kind of a problem because i like facts, and i don't like accepting faulty premises. If you expect me to treat your question with the respect you think it deserves then i expect you to treat it with at least enough respect to have the question be based on a factual premise.

OK. So you can't, or aren't willing to, provide evidence. That's fine. You could be busy. But how about you simply explain why you think music sales have drastically reduced? Can you at least answer that for me?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by thatdberight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:07 pm

Test User wrote:That's kind of a problem because i like facts, and i don't like accepting faulty premises. If you expect me to treat your question with the respect you think it deserves then i expect you to treat it with at least enough respect to have the question be based on a factual premise.

OK. So you can't, or aren't willing to, provide evidence. That's fine. You could be busy. But how about you simply explain why you think music sales have drastically reduced? Can you at least answer that for me?
You could have accessed the evidence in the time it took you to write that last post.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Test User » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:10 pm

thatdberight wrote:You could have accessed the evidence in the time it took you to write that last post.

I already have. Sort of. But i want to know why you think something because my evidence is imperfect and is purely based on sales of the best selling singles and albums each year. Sure, it refutes your question somewhat but there might be a good reason for you to think that sales have drastically reduced and i'd like to know what that is, because that reason might be better reasoning than whatever information i've been able to glean so far.

I don't understand why you won't explain your opinion.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:12 pm

music sales have fallen drastically and have been over taken by streams resulting in most artists (expect the big acts) getting paid virtually **** all for their artistry

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by mealdeal » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:13 pm

Test User wrote:That's kind of a problem because i like facts, and i don't like accepting faulty premises. If you expect me to treat your question with the respect you think it deserves then i expect you to treat it with at least enough respect to have the question be based on a factual premise.

OK. So you can't, or aren't willing to, provide evidence. That's fine. You could be busy. But how about you simply explain why you think music sales have drastically reduced? Can you at least answer that for me?
Image

There you go brother. Recorded music sales have fallen nearly every year from 1999 to 2015. In 1999 physical sales made up 100% of the market and now they make up roughly 34%.

I'd suggest - and I'm not alone - this is down to the changing way people now consume music. In the late 90s and early 00s the music industry was paralysed by the rise in file sharing, Napster and the like. It changed its model to suit the way consumption was heading and made alternatives to piracy affordable and easy to access which means it is now slowly recovering, although I doubt actual physical sales will reach the heights of the past.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by South West Claret. » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:16 pm

thatdberight wrote:Well, since there are multiple posters on here offering to show you how to access pirate feeds, obviously, no, they can't stop piracy that easily.
I'm talking to Q not you, thank you.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by clarethomer » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:11 pm

Interesting view points...

I don't get this diminishing gate/wiping out non-league argument fully tbh.

You can get a Burnley game for free currently on a stream..Our gates seem to be healthy and likewise I don't see non-league clubs quoting the number of people watching streams being the reason for low attendances.

I would be highly surprised if the question around Napster proving a demand for a service that wasn't legally available could ever become viable in the legal sense. These days you take spotify/deezer/itunes etc as a given.

Clearly the business model may need to change financially but there is nothing I have read yet which has made me think - yeah, that is why they shouldn't do it...Maybe my view of change in the world being a positive thing rather than a negative is having me blinkered in some way?

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by clarethomer » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:00 pm

This is the kind of innovation that is needed.

£8 per month for PL football. Sounds good to me....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QTQb3IF_eM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.sportbible.com/football/news ... TKBF519W7M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by Tricky Trevor » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:07 pm

The NFL has a good system. A match can’t be shown, live, within 100 miles of the stadium until it is a sellout.

I agree with CT about the effect on lower league attendances but they don't have to play at 3pm Saturdays. A slot could surely be found where there is no televised football.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by CombatClaret » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:22 pm

The biggest trouble with some kind of BPL Netflix is how to go from 0 to 100million subscribers while keeping Sky & BT happy as it's a cornerstone of their premium offering.
I can't see SKY & BT letting the League run a service in tandem knowing it will eventually eat them. And starting a new season from 0 after current contracts expire would loose you money the first couple seasons until those huge numbers could be reached.

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Re: Why can't we get 3pm kick off's legally shown in the UK?

Post by clarethomer » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:13 am

PL simply have to offer the rights to show games at any time for me. The netflix type app would be good but I get that there may be a drop in revenue.

Open up the PL Channels and add them to every TV providers channel list - like BT Sport for example place their content on the Sky and VM platforms.

I'm not exactly sure how BT sells their content to Sky but clearly there is a methodology and to change to a licence model of the providers pay £8 a subscriber to the PL and the TV providers can charge what they like on top of this, I would imagine you would get your 0-100M fairly quickly in terms of worldwide audience. Sky, VM, You view etc.. could all offer the channel and make profit which would keep prices relatively cheap and affordable due to the competition this brings.

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