Will dyche ever

[BurnleyFC]

But playing our strongest side risks injuries which has a negative impact on our Premier League campaign. There's a lot more money to be made by staying in the Prem, therefore it's a pretty straightforward decision - rest them for the cup.

Had we played our strongest side and lost first team players, people would be saying we shouldn't have started them and should have gone with what we did today. That's how it works.

It’s a pity for us that Guardiola didn’t think that way, and they have a hell of a lot more to play for than we do.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Anyone who thinks playing a completely left footed left back at right back is sound thinking is crackers.

Dyche went there hoping to contain them and go out 1 nil battling.

Unfortunately that backfired and we get well and truly dicked.

[FactualFrank]

It’s a pity for us that Guardiola didn’t think that way, and they have a hell of a lot more to play for than we do.

Guardiola can afford to go for everything. He says he wants to win them all... ha! of course he does, as his team can afford to go for everything. We can't.

[scouseclaret]

tiger76 - You can argue the Wigan example either way. My view is that Wigan’s FA Cup win more than compensates for everything that’s happened since. They’re Wigan Athletic for Christ’s sake - not even the he biggest sporting institution in Wigan, and yet their name is on the FA Cup. Forever.

If you look at our position within the current hierarchy of the game, it is very likely that, sooner or later - and probably sooner - we will be relegated. If you look at our history, it is also likely that we will endure prolonged periods outside the top flight, maybe even revisiting the lower divisions.

Personally, I would love to have something to show for this period of relative success. A cup win would be great, but equally I’d have loved a run in the Europa League.

Otherwise, when the leaner times return, you become like Oldham or Swindon or Barnsley or Bradford or all the other teams who have had a few seasons in the sun. Everyone soon forgets you were ever there.

But Wigan? They won the Cup!

[NL Claret]

Just checked in for my morning UTC entertainment and I'm not disappointed.

We lose 5-0 in a game against a side who cost about £500m +. A side who some on here were saying the other week about how boring it was to watch City games due to their superiority. We were 40/1 to win. We have a injury depleted squad, we have a big game against Soton next Saturday.

I've not included the United game, not doubt after Tuesday night there will be the usual experts bemoaning how we lost to Manchester United.

After a defeat there are a few posters logging in again for the first time since late December. Also a few old classics like Olympicaos getting rolled out. In the world of football no one was surprised at yesterday's result although it has given the UTC experts an opportunity to criticise the manager. Roll on Tuesday.

[TVC15]

But Wigan? They won the Cup!

So did we.
And the league twice.

You think Wigan would not swap their current position or their history with us ?

[Spijed]

This idea it was impossible to beat them.....

Palace and Leicester

[mickleoverclaret]

And is it proved that having a good run in the Cup is bad for League form? When we first got promoted into the Premier League, we had that run to the League Cup semis and played 5 FA Cup games too. Would our league season have been better if we'd got knocked out of both early on? No it wouldn't.

What sticks in my throat is that, if all goes to plan, I will never again have the chance to see Burnley win something. We won't even try to win the FA Cup, the League Cup, or a European Trophy, there's no realistic chance of winning the League, so unless we get relegated that's it. Nothing to win. I've been a season ticket holder since 86-7, and we've won promotion 6 times, including a couple of Wembley play-offs and a couple of Championships, reached Wembley in the Sherpa Van, reached the League Cup semi, qualified for Europe (not realising it meant nothing) - we've had an extremely exciting time. I've had a great ride. Now, the club's ambition is boredom - make sure we never have any exciting moments, and wave a bank statement in the air instead of a cup. Yippee.

I went on Accrington today, as I do quite often. At least they try and win things.

You could just as easily argue that focusing on the balance sheet, staying in the league and continuing to pick up £100m+ every year is part of a longer term focus on winning trophies. If the club earns and spends that money wisely over the next few years it builds itself into a solid mid-table outfit capable of carrying squads that can fight on multiple fronts and have a proper crack at winning some trophies.

If a cup run this season is the difference between staying up and going down (and i'm aware that it isn't, necessarily, but i'm speaking hypothetically) we could get to the semis, lose to Chelsea, get relegated, and not be in a position to have a crack at a trophy because all our best players have gone and we've got another 46 game slog in the lower leagues.

What the club is doing now, you could argue, is sacrificing the opportunity for success in the cups for a longer-term focus on being the sort of club that can have a proper go at winning trophies (although, of course, such opportunities are few and far between for clubs like ours, and much less for your bizarrely cited example of Accrington, so it's difficult to really get too upset about it, IMO). It's not easy to do when you're watching us roll over and get pummelled by City or even Burton, but you've got to take a more sensible, long term and realistic view, and i'd suggest that's what the club is doing.

[NL Claret]

The club's ambition is boredom. I suppose the club are at fault for the multi millions of pounds the top 6 through at it and the beast PL has created. Just waiting the Scudamore line getting rolled out.

I always like threads that include "I fear" "I worry about" "what sticks in the throat". It's only football.

[nighty]

not sure what people expect mr dyche to do , if we had played our main starting 11 we would still have lost ,id play same team on tuesday against a resurgent united and then we would have no excuses for our big one against southampton , a must win , beat these and beat cardiff at home and i think 36 points will keep us up ........just for the record ,yesterdays starting 11 transfer spends
burnley £63million
city. £463million......
sometimes i think we need to put into perspective what we are up against , the cheapest player they had on the park was gundogan £24m, 5 players cost in excess of £40m each !!!and debruyne more than all our starting eleven put together......

IN SEAN I TRUST

[Dy1geo]

What the Directors want and the fans want can be 2 different things, a mate of mine who has supported Wigan since the Springfield Park days said he wouldn’t swap being in the the Prem now for their FA Cup win and the Europa Group stage that followed and that he said eventually after just surviving each year we will get bored of the Prem. He still watches his team home and away.

As a fan I personally got just as big a buzz at the Preston Sherpa Van away win in 1988 as the promotion match to the Prem.

Yes I like us dining at the top table and this year coming 17th will be a great achievement but if we get a favourable draw next year and our league position is slightly better can we at least “have a go” in one of the cups.

[SGr]

Nah, he won’t. Losing to teams like City doesn’t bother me overall even in the manner we lost yesterday.

I’m just sick of losing to lower league sides.

Pleasantly surprised we beat Barnsley

[JohnMac]

Should always at least give em a game tho

There are fans of about 25 teams saying the same thing.

Sometimes you have to accept things, a full strength Burnley team against a second string Man City side with a player sent off is probably as close to a match as we can reasonably expect.

If we still had George Boyd and Scott Arfield though..

[Winstonswhite]

tiger76 - You can argue the Wigan example either way. My view is that Wigan’s FA Cup win more than compensates for everything that’s happened since. They’re Wigan Athletic for Christ’s sake - not even the he biggest sporting institution in Wigan, and yet their name is on the FA Cup. Forever.

If you look at our position within the current hierarchy of the game, it is very likely that, sooner or later - and probably sooner - we will be relegated. If you look at our history, it is also likely that we will endure prolonged periods outside the top flight, maybe even revisiting the lower divisions.

Personally, I would love to have something to show for this period of relative success. A cup win would be great, but equally I’d have loved a run in the Europa League.

Otherwise, when the leaner times return, you become like Oldham or Swindon or Barnsley or Bradford or all the other teams who have had a few seasons in the sun. Everyone soon forgets you were ever there.

But Wigan? They won the Cup!

I work with two Wigan season ticket holders and both of them say that the highlight of their years was the FA Cup and they couldn’t give a monkeys about just surviving in the PL year after year after year.

[FactualFrank]

As with Olympiakos though the transfer window is still open so thats a poor excuse.
And if we are only arsed about the balance sheet we might as well just start watching the national lottery instead.

It really isn't. Because the transfer window promises nothing. I'd love to see you run a business and think, it's ok running at a loss because you can buy more next month. It doesn't work like that. You are seeing things 100% from a fan's prospective and you need to think from other angles.

[Paul Waine]

it's just a few days back we were reminiscing about the Spurs semi-final on the Turf. We lost. We didn't get to the final and we didn't win the cup.

But, we were a Championship team. We weren't "going for the cup" and risking losing our Premier League status by doing so.

Sean Dyche has achieved 4 seasons in the Premier League so far. If we want to win cups, do we think we've more chance of doing this by starting next season in the Premier League again, or getting relegated and being one of the "lower league, against all the odds" teams?

Be patient and enjoy the ride. The best chance Burnley has of winning one of the cups is to build on many seasons in the Premier League.

UTC

[ontario claret]

Instead of questioning why Dyche put out the squad he did, people should ask why Citeh put out such a strong squad as they did. Instead of keeping your A team on the field and running up the score, why take the chance of somebody like de Bruyne getting hurt, when you're essentially playing our B team? Even then, I think 5-0 really flattered them.

[Rileybobs]

Would Wigan fans have traded their Premier League status for a place in the fifth round of the cup?

It’s more than a bit fanciful to suggest that we had a realistic chance of winning the tournament even if we had dumped City out.

I just don’t get the debate. We’re almost certainly not going to win a major trophy so the question is would people rather play for Premier League survival or The Championship trophy. I think the vast majority, myself included, would prefer the former.

[cricketfieldclarets]

It really isn't. Because the transfer window promises nothing. I'd love to see you run a business and think, it's ok running at a loss because you can buy more next month. It doesn't work like that. You are seeing things 100% from a fan's prospective and you need to think from other angles.

[dougcollins]

The suggestion is that having a cup run has adverse effects on League form.

I would suggest it has the opposite.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Would Wigan fans have traded their Premier League status for a place in the fifth round of the cup?

It’s more than a bit fanciful to suggest that we had a realistic chance of winning the tournament even if we had dumped City out.

I just don’t get the debate. We’re almost certainly not going to win a major trophy so the question is would people rather play for Premier League survival or The Championship trophy. I think the vast majority, myself included, would prefer the former.

Why is it fanciful? Last year we were the 7th best team in the country. And its not like Wigan beat Newport in the final they won. They beat a very good erm CITY team!

This year Arsenal (probably the most succesful FA Cup club ever) are out. As are Liverpool who are currently the best in the country. Had we beat City the reigning League champions would have been out. Along with Spurs and Everton. In fact 75% of the premier league are out.

If it was a one off yesterday would have been excusable. But as it stands it wasnt and it isnt. The system was an insult to all who paid to go and watch yesterday.

To say we will never compete to win anything is eating the crap the club often unnecessarily feeds us.

We can't compete in the cups
We can't compete in the transfer window
We can't keep our best players

Its rubbish.

We are cash rich.
A premier league club.
A club with rich history.
A club with a bright future.

But instead we often send out such a negative message.

If we are in for a player along with any other team in this league that player will choose any other team. Because the message they send out is one of ambition and positivity.

[Rileybobs]

Why is it fanciful? Last year we were the 7th best team in the country. And its not like Wigan beat Newport in the final they won. They beat a very good erm CITY team!

This year Arsenal (probably the most succesful FA Cup club ever) are out. As are Liverpool who are currently the best in the country. Had we beat City the reigning League champions would have been out. Along with Spurs and Everton. In fact 75% of the premier league are out.

If it was a one off yesterday would have been excusable. But as it stands it wasnt and it isnt. The system was an insult to all who paid to go and watch yesterday.

To say we will never compete to win anything is eating the crap the club often unnecessarily feeds us.

We can't compete in the cups
We can't compete in the transfer window
We can't keep our best players

Its rubbish.

We are cash rich.
A premier league club.
A club with rich history.
A club with a bright future.

But instead we often send out such a negative message.

If we are in for a player along with any other team in this league that player will choose any other team. Because the message they send out is one of ambition and positivity.

Of course it’s fanciful. In the past 30 years the only teams outside the recognised top six who have won the FA cup are Wigan, Pompey and Everton. The chance of Burnley winning the FA cup are tiny. We were 40-1 to progress to the fifth round!

[cricketfieldclarets]

Of course it’s fanciful. In the past 30 years the only teams outside the recognised top six who have won the FA cup are Wigan, Pompey and Everton. The chance of Burnley winning the FA cup are tiny. We were 40-1 to progress to the fifth round!

If we maintained that mindset in every aspect then we never would have been promoted once, never mind 3 times ahead of the likes of Leeds, Forest, Blackburn, Sheff Utd, Sheff Wednesday, Ipswich, Derby. In fact many would think we would be lucky to be pluckily competing with them in the championship!

Thankfuly we have taken the league seriously. But it doesnt have to be at the expense of cups!

We could easily win one of the two cups with a bit of ambition and luck!

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Why is it fanciful? Last year we were the 7th best team in the country. And its not like Wigan beat Newport in the final they won. They beat a very good erm CITY team!

This year Arsenal (probably the most succesful FA Cup club ever) are out. As are Liverpool who are currently the best in the country. Had we beat City the reigning League champions would have been out. Along with Spurs and Everton. In fact 75% of the premier league are out.

If it was a one off yesterday would have been excusable. But as it stands it wasnt and it isnt. The system was an insult to all who paid to go and watch yesterday.

To say we will never compete to win anything is eating the crap the club often unnecessarily feeds us.

We can't compete in the cups
We can't compete in the transfer window
We can't keep our best players

Its rubbish.

We are cash rich.
A premier league club.
A club with rich history.
A club with a bright future.

But instead we often send out such a negative message.

If we are in for a player along with any other team in this league that player will choose any other team. Because the message they send out is one of ambition and positivity.

If you think that we are negative you should have been at Newcastle yesterday! An awful game between two teams who, in the first half in particular, didn't look at all interested. It was only marginally better in the second half and Andre Gray scored a good goal on 61 minutes. I thought that it may liven up after that, however, it just meandered along until Watford scored a second in the 90th minute and that was a signal for 2/3rds of the 34000 crowd to disappear, leaving a disgruntled load of fans to sound their disapproval of what they had seen.
If you think that Sean Dyche is negative you have not listened to the constant ramblings of Rafa who must fill his players with confidence because he is always rambling on saying that he must have new players, he even states that they will be relegated without any new signings ---a real confidence booster to his lads. Meanwhile the crowd blame Mike Ashley for everything and seem to think that if he goes then everything will be OK, irrespective that the club owes him something like £100+ million.
Perhaps players won't choose any other team because of their ambition and positivity, even though they play in front of 52000 on most games.

[cricketfieldclarets]

If you think that we are negative you should have been at Newcastle yesterday! An awful game between two teams who, in the first half in particular, didn't look at all interested. It was only marginally better in the second half and Andre Gray scored a good goal on 61 minutes. I thought that it may liven up after that, however, it just meandered along until Watford scored a second in the 90th minute and that was a signal for 2/3rds of the 34000 crowd to disappear, leaving a disgruntled load of fans to sound their disapproval of what they had seen.
If you think that Sean Dyche is negative you have not listened to the constant ramblings of Rafa who must fill his players with confidence because he is always rambling on saying that he must have new players, he even states that they will be relegated without any new signings ---a real confidence booster to his lads. Meanwhile the crowd blame Mike Ashley for everything and seem to think that if he goes then everything will be OK, irrespective that the club owes him something like £100+ million.
Perhaps players won't choose any other team because of their ambition and positivity, even though they play in front of 52000 on most games.

Its a good example. And sunderland were similar. And eventually it will catch you up.

Moyes said from day one they werent good enough. What message does that send to the fans, the current players and any targets? It says don't come here. Go elsewhere.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

Its a good example. And sunderland were similar. And eventually it will catch you up.

Moyes said from day one they werent good enough. What message does that send to the fans, the current players and any targets? It says don't come here. Go elsewhere.

Very true, however, our management do not run our players down etc., etc., they just get on with the job.
There are enough of our fans who constantly criticise the players and carp on that they are not good enough to be in the PL, the management stay well clear of all that nonsense and continue to try to get the best out of what we have and not what the fans wish that we had and that is good management as far as I am concerned.

[tybfc]

not sure what people expect mr dyche to do , if we had played our main starting 11 we would still have lost ,id play same team on tuesday against a resurgent united and then we would have no excuses for our big one against southampton , a must win , beat these and beat cardiff at home and i think 36 points will keep us up ........just for the record ,yesterdays starting 11 transfer spends
burnley £63million
city. £463million......
sometimes i think we need to put into perspective what we are up against , the cheapest player they had on the park was gundogan £24m, 5 players cost in excess of £40m each !!!and debruyne more than all our starting eleven put together......

IN SEAN I TRUST

Nighty - It is nice to see you joining in a debate on here. You must have been saving it up from all those games that you have missed this season. Before I agree with everything that you have said can I ask that your writing improves?

We did not attend one of the top grammar schools in the North of England together for you to write without capital letters at the correct time.

Also Flixton cheated at cards all of the way to Watford on the train and the whole of carriage E were having a go at him. Same old.

Back to footy and you are totally right.

We must beat Southampton and a win at Brighton wouldn't go amiss.

We need to be home and dry asap with our last four games looming.

[dsr]

You could just as easily argue that focusing on the balance sheet, staying in the league and continuing to pick up £100m+ every year is part of a longer term focus on winning trophies. If the club earns and spends that money wisely over the next few years it builds itself into a solid mid-table outfit capable of carrying squads that can fight on multiple fronts and have a proper crack at winning some trophies.

If a cup run this season is the difference between staying up and going down (and i'm aware that it isn't, necessarily, but i'm speaking hypothetically) we could get to the semis, lose to Chelsea, get relegated, and not be in a position to have a crack at a trophy because all our best players have gone and we've got another 46 game slog in the lower leagues.

What the club is doing now, you could argue, is sacrificing the opportunity for success in the cups for a longer-term focus on being the sort of club that can have a proper go at winning trophies (although, of course, such opportunities are few and far between for clubs like ours, and much less for your bizarrely cited example of Accrington, so it's difficult to really get too upset about it, IMO). It's not easy to do when you're watching us roll over and get pummelled by City or even Burton, but you've got to take a more sensible, long term and realistic view, and i'd suggest that's what the club is doing.

Can you give an example of a club that has done what was suggested in your first paragraph? A club that has built for several years in the Premier without huge money being pumped in and is now one of the League Title contenders? I can't think of any.

Second paragraph - IF. IF IF IF IF IF!!! What evidence is there that having a good cup run hurts the League form? Even in 1982-83, we played better while we were in the cups than after we were out. We only won 12 league games all season, but in between the League Cup win at Tottenham and the Cup defeat at Sheff Wed, we won 4 and drew 1 of the five games played. Including 7-1 v. Charlton. And Coyle's season is obvious. In 2002-03, during the FA Cup run we got 12 points in 7 games; once we lost to Watford, we got 7 points in 13. Where is your corresponding evidence that Cup runs make you struggle?

Accrington Stanley is not a bizarre example. Given a choice of free tickets and travel for Accy v Derby, or Man City v Burnley, I would have chosen Accy. Why? Because they were trying to win. Watching a side play that isn't doing its best? (The club as a whole, not the individual players.) What's the point? I don't watch pre-season friendlies any more because they don't mean anything; yesterday's cup game was the same.

And if we play the first team against Man United and lose, then the whole thing was futile anyway.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Can you give an example of a club that has done what was suggested in your first paragraph? A club that has built for several years in the Premier without huge money being pumped in and is now one of the League Title contenders? I can't think of any.

Second paragraph - IF. IF IF IF IF IF!!! What evidence is there that having a good cup run hurts the League form? Even in 1982-83, we played better while we were in the cups than after we were out. We only won 12 league games all season, but in between the League Cup win at Tottenham and the Cup defeat at Sheff Wed, we won 4 and drew 1 of the five games played. Including 7-1 v. Charlton. And Coyle's season is obvious. In 2002-03, during the FA Cup run we got 12 points in 7 games; once we lost to Watford, we got 7 points in 13. Where is your corresponding evidence that Cup runs make you struggle?

Accrington Stanley is not a bizarre example. Given a choice of free tickets and travel for Accy v Derby, or Man City v Burnley, I would have chosen Accy. Why? Because they were trying to win. Watching a side play that isn't doing its best? (The club as a whole, not the individual players.) What's the point? I don't watch pre-season friendlies any more because they don't mean anything; yesterday's cup game was the same.

And if we play the first team against Man United and lose, then the whole thing was futile anyway.

It was one of the most boring games ive ever attended yesterday. Not only did we not try to win, we didnt even attempt to compete.

Even the city lads I sat with were bored shitless. It was a no contest. They even said they wish we scored first to at least make it a contest even just briefly.

[mickleoverclaret]

Can you give an example of a club that has done what was suggested in your first paragraph? A club that has built for several years in the Premier without huge money being pumped in and is now one of the League Title contenders? I can't think of any.

Second paragraph - IF. IF IF IF IF IF!!! What evidence is there that having a good cup run hurts the League form? Even in 1982-83, we played better while we were in the cups than after we were out. We only won 12 league games all season, but in between the League Cup win at Tottenham and the Cup defeat at Sheff Wed, we won 4 and drew 1 of the five games played. Including 7-1 v. Charlton. And Coyle's season is obvious. In 2002-03, during the FA Cup run we got 12 points in 7 games; once we lost to Watford, we got 7 points in 13. Where is your corresponding evidence that Cup runs make you struggle?

Accrington Stanley is not a bizarre example. Given a choice of free tickets and travel for Accy v Derby, or Man City v Burnley, I would have chosen Accy. Why? Because they were trying to win. Watching a side play that isn't doing its best? (The club as a whole, not the individual players.) What's the point? I don't watch pre-season friendlies any more because they don't mean anything; yesterday's cup game was the same.

And if we play the first team against Man United and lose, then the whole thing was futile anyway.

We'll never be league title contenders unless we get taken over by a billionaire mate, it's disingenuous to suggest that I ever hinted otherwise. If you want us to have a decent enough squad to challenge for trophies the only way we're gonna get the money required is to build in the Prem for several years.

You can point to plenty of teams who've had a good cup run and struggled, Wigan in 2013, Southampton last season, Birmingham in 2011. Of the three examples you picked, i'm not sure including a team who had two cup runs and got relegated was the best choice. Unless two thirds of Premier League managers are just resting players for a laugh, i'd imagine there's something in the notion that playing extra games and diverting focus from the league can affect you negatively when you're in a relegation battle, just as everyone agrees the Europa League affected us at the start of the season.

Accrington is a bizarre example, because you said they were trying to win trophies. They're 5 points above the drop zone in the third tier and they're out of all 3 cup competitions. In the Checkatrade Trophy, which was their only realistic hope of winning silverware this season, they squandered a two goal lead at home to a lower league side and got knocked out. If you want to move the goalposts and say you'd rather watch Accy vs Derby than Man City vs Burnley because Accy gave it a better go than we did, that's a different argument, and I don't disagree with it. It was one of the biggest games in their history, as opposed to a fixture they've already played 3 times in the last year, and it was more winnable than our tie, so it doesn't surprise me that it was eminently more watchable than our game.

I'm not sure the whole thing was futile if we don't beat the most in form team in Europe on their own patch, because as explained in the last post, the whole thing is symptomatic of a longer-term view, over the next few seasons, not just the next Premier League game.

[jrgbfc]

Plenty of examples of where a cup run hasn't done any harm as well. Palace made the final under Pardew a few years back and they didn't go down.

[mickleoverclaret]

Plenty of examples of where a cup run hasn't done any harm as well. Palace made the final under Pardew a few years back and they didn't go down.

Yeah, it can go either way to be fair, I think it's partly down to Dyche's innate cautiousness that he focuses on what can go wrong with it. I've been on every cup game we've played under Dyche apart from Forest in 2013 so I fully understand what a tedious grind it is. Just think it's important to see the bigger picture as well.

[Sproggy]

I don't mind that we make changes in the cups, that's what the squad is for. What I don't like is that we put out a team with clear instructions not to compete.

Minimum requirement is maximum effort*

*except in cup competitions where minimum requirement is not to get injured.

[Tall Paul]

Plenty of examples of where a cup run hasn't done any harm as well. Palace made the final under Pardew a few years back and they didn't go down.

It's almost as if there are other factors in whether a club is relegated than how they fare in the cups and picking isolated examples doesn't tell us anything.

Here's an article with evidence that progressing to the final of the FA Cup adversely affects league form

[NL Claret]

It was one of the most boring games ive ever attended yesterday. Not only did we not try to win, we didnt even attempt to compete.

Even the city lads I sat with were bored shitless. It was a no contest. They even said they wish we scored first to at least make it a contest even just briefly.

It's not just against burnley they are bored. A lad at work didn't bother going on Saturday, he said when he does go he doesn't celebrate many goals and for the Burton game he could have got hold of 40 free tickets from a junior football club. They cannot even give tickets away at City. A lad I know who's been going since early 80s , thick and thin, he told me in September (after asking after Joe Hart) after beating Fulham that he was getting bored. He said it was more about the social side.

It's modern day football. We could have been hammered by Wimbledon.

There will probably another outcry if we lose to Manchester United. Some fans are big time now.

Not wanting to sound like claret Spice but I was talking to my wba mate and he said its inevitable clubs our size will eventually be relegated.

[Spijed]

The idea that the top six sides can put out second string teams that are still too good for the rest obviously didn't apply to Spurs. Take out Kane, Son and Alli and their reserves are mediocre at best.

[Dyched]

The idea that the top six sides can put out second string teams that are still too good for the rest obviously didn't apply to Spurs. Take out Kane, Son and Alli and their reserves are mediocre at best.

City aside the rest of the top 6 have pretty poor back up imo.

[houseboy]

I think the stat that we committed one foul in the entire game tells us all we need to know.

But if we end up safe again I don't have a problem with that.

The best chance of a cup run was last season when we were safe by Christmas. But we drew City away. And, as Rileybobs says we gave valuable game time to some players today.

Some people would still moan if we won the cup.

Let's go and do United on Tuesday. I'm in the home end so a 95th minute Barnesy winner will do

Let's go and do United???
Have you seen the way they are playing?

[houseboy]

Serious question:
Is it better to play for survival every season in the PL, being cautious and (dare I say it) boring and hoping that we can finish 17th, or play football that is perhaps more enjoyable in the top half of the Championship, winning games, scoring goals and having no fear of competing in cup competitions.
In answering please try to avoid mentioning anything about 'the money'.

[claptrappers_union]

I want Sean Dyche (no matter which league we’re in next season) to say :-

I’ve been at this club 7 years, we’ve not had a decent cup run. It’s time we had a cup run.

[Dyched]

Serious question:
Is it better to play for survival every season in the PL, being cautious and (dare I say it) boring and hoping that we can finish 17th, or play football that is perhaps more enjoyable in the top half of the Championship, winning games, scoring goals and having no fear of competing in cup competitions.
In answering please try to avoid mentioning anything about 'the money'.

It’s better to win the PL every season. The difficulty is with doing that I’m not sure our squad or manager could cope with the UCL unfortunately.

[houseboy]

It’s better to win the PL every season. The difficulty is with doing that I’m not sure our squad or manager could cope with the UCL unfortunately.

Ha ha yeah. He'd probably play the reserves at Barcelona so we could have a chance of beating Watford in the PL.

[Devils_Advocate]

Serious question:
Is it better to play for survival every season in the PL, being cautious and (dare I say it) boring and hoping that we can finish 17th, or play football that is perhaps more enjoyable in the top half of the Championship, winning games, scoring goals and having no fear of competing in cup competitions.
In answering please try to avoid mentioning anything about 'the money'.

If you could guarantee we would be a top 8 side playing good attacking football getting in the playoffs 2 every 3 years with the occasional promotion and subsequent relegation I dare say quite a lot of fans would find this more exciting and enjoyable.

The trouble is once we go down we could very soon be like we were under Cotterill playing cautious negative football in the Championship with relegation to league 1 more likely than promotion to the Premier League

The first season we stayed up was exciting because no matter how we played it was a battle and a brilliant achievement. Last year was great cos we progressed and played a bit better football and looked a lot better then the 5 or 6 bottom teams.

This season has been awful because we ballsed up the last two transfer windows, waved the white flag in Europe and went back to turgid football seemingly without the desire and team cohesion we've always had under Dyche.

[TVC15]

Think DA pretty much sums up how a lot of fans feel this season.

[Tall Paul]

Serious question:
Is it better to play for survival every season in the PL, being cautious and (dare I say it) boring and hoping that we can finish 17th, or play football that is perhaps more enjoyable in the top half of the Championship, winning games, scoring goals and having no fear of competing in cup competitions.
In answering please try to avoid mentioning anything about 'the money'.

Yes

[TVC15]

Serious question:
Is it better to play for survival every season in the PL, being cautious and (dare I say it) boring and hoping that we can finish 17th, or play football that is perhaps more enjoyable in the top half of the Championship, winning games, scoring goals and having no fear of competing in cup competitions.
In answering please try to avoid mentioning anything about 'the money'.

Hopefully they are not the only 2 options we have.
Might seem like that for a lot of this season but pretty much the same team played some decent stuff last year and whilst finishing 7th was a one off we are capable of playing good football and staying in the league.

Dyche is never going to be epansive like Howe but I am sure a lot of fans enjoyed and were proud of the way we defended last year...it’s not as exciting as scoring goals of course but watching Tarks and Mee doing a brilliant block or Heaton or Pope making great saves still gets the crowd going when we hang on for a point or a narrow win.

Most fans I know prefer us to be battling it out in the Prem League and confounding the odds when we can. Even losing in the manner we did against Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool can be enjoyable as long as we are picking up points against the lower teams.
getting thrashed home or away has been hard to watch this year...but there are plenty of teams in this league who have to experience this on a regular basis

[tiger76]

If you could guarantee we would be a top 8 side playing good attacking football getting in the playoffs 2 every 3 years with the occasional promotion and subsequent relegation I dare say quite a lot of fans would find this more exciting and enjoyable.

The trouble is once we go down we could very soon be like we were under Cotterill playing cautious negative football in the Championship with relegation to league 1 more likely than promotion to the Premier League

The first season we stayed up was exciting because no matter how we played it was a battle and a brilliant achievement. Last year was great cos we progressed and played a bit better football and looked a lot better then the 5 or 6 bottom teams.

This season has been awful because we ballsed up the last two transfer windows, waved the white flag in Europe and went back to turgid football seemingly without the desire and team cohesion we've always had under Dyche.

If or when as seems likely at some point we go down,the 1st season is the best shot at bouncing back,i'm afraid that the cups will always play 2nd fiddle to our league placing whichever league we're in,the only way this might change is if we dropped into the lower leagues,and then the cups became important for financial reasons,the only clubs that take the cups seriously are the big boys who have a shot of lifting one,or the lower leagues/non league's who value the TV money and know they have a better stab at ousting the PL/Champ sides who will rotate their squad's,City are an outlier as their depth is crazy,it's sad that money rules the roost but that's the way of football nowadays.

[TVC15]

Fair chunk of the championship teams have been resting players in the cups.

It’s 2 decades now at least the cups have been in decline

[cricketfieldclarets]

It's not just against burnley they are bored. A lad at work didn't bother going on Saturday, he said when he does go he doesn't celebrate many goals and for the Burton game he could have got hold of 40 free tickets from a junior football club. They cannot even give tickets away at City. A lad I know who's been going since early 80s , thick and thin, he told me in September (after asking after Joe Hart) after beating Fulham that he was getting bored. He said it was more about the social side.

It's modern day football. We could have been hammered by Wimbledon.

There will probably another outcry if we lose to Manchester United. Some fans are big time now.

Not wanting to sound like claret Spice but I was talking to my wba mate and he said its inevitable clubs our size will eventually be relegated.

Its not about losing Saturday and wont be about losing tomorrow.

If we put out a strong side tomorrow, with a logical system, that competes we will be happy.

The problem is saturday we did none of them.

[houseboy]

If you could guarantee we would be a top 8 side playing good attacking football getting in the playoffs 2 every 3 years with the occasional promotion and subsequent relegation I dare say quite a lot of fans would find this more exciting and enjoyable.

The trouble is once we go down we could very soon be like we were under Cotterill playing cautious negative football in the Championship with relegation to league 1 more likely than promotion to the Premier League

The first season we stayed up was exciting because no matter how we played it was a battle and a brilliant achievement. Last year was great cos we progressed and played a bit better football and looked a lot better then the 5 or 6 bottom teams.

This season has been awful because we ballsed up the last two transfer windows, waved the white flag in Europe and went back to turgid football seemingly without the desire and team cohesion we've always had under Dyche.

Excellent answer and my thinkiing entirely.