What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by RingoMcCartney » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:12 pm

He's the only burnley manager to get promoted to the top flight TWICE, and keep us there for at LEAST 3 consecutive years.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:13 pm

TVC15 wrote:And in the same way people like you churn out the same rubbish about “real fans” and not being able to criticise the club etc....I agree it’s just boring rhetoric on both sides.

So dealing with both your big issues about the club.

1. Transfers - personally I do not know any burnley fan who has not been critical to some degree about our transfer record at some point or other. The difference between me and you though is that you say we fail to compete in every window and me and most other fans see that we have made lots of good signings in the last 19 years which have given us some of the best players we have seen in a claret shirt.

2. Disrespect for the cup - see my above response and get used to us doing what every other team does or you are going to be fed up for a long time


I'm talking about Sean's transfer dealings, not the last 19 years. He has made some good signings in his time, but they have dried up more and more each year. He has got to the point where he can no longer make sufficient deals to strengthen the squad. I am not saying that is Sean's fault, but if he isn't happy needs to be making the board aware of how important it is to him and be prepared to backup the talk. Sometimes that takes calling them out in public. That is how other managers get their owners to back them up.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:13 pm

RingoMcCartney wrote:He's the only burnley manager to get promoted to the top flight TWICE, and keep us there for at LEAST 3 consecutive years.

Again, where have I said he isn't an amazing manager and the best we could get?

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:22 pm

Steddyman wrote:But they won’t and yes I’ve done the tour twice. Championship runners up and winners are the only things in there from Dyche and as long as we stay in the Premeir League those are the only items that will be in there.


SO are you advocating dropping through the leagues, so we can win the Checkatrade trophy..... something no Burnley manager has ever achieved, so kids can look at a shiny trophy in a trophy cabinet...... or are you saying we should be winning the Premier League and putting that trophy in there? I am confused.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:27 pm

dandeclaret wrote:SO are you advocating dropping through the leagues, so we can win the Checkatrade trophy..... something no Burnley manager has ever achieved, so kids can look at a shiny trophy in a trophy cabinet...... or are you saying we should be winning the Premier League and putting that trophy in there? I am confused.


I think just having a bit more ambition than finishing 17th every year is all some of us are asking for.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:34 pm

But there's no trophies for finishing above 17th, unless you finish first. That's what the OP was asking for, and latterly stating we wouldn't get them if we stayed in the prem.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:37 pm

jrgbfc wrote:I think just having a bit more ambition than finishing 17th every year is all some of us are asking for.



I don't understand why the OP has liked this post. There are no trophies for ambitions above 17th place to go in the trophy cabinet as he was asking.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:40 pm

I like it because it reinforces the mentality I don't like of everything is great so long as we finish 17th. I don't mind finishing 17th, but it shouldn't be the be all and end all.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by dandeclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:43 pm

Steddyman wrote:I like it because it reinforces the mentality I don't like of everything is great so long as we finish 17th. I don't mind finishing 17th, but it shouldn't be the be all and end all.


Steddyman wrote:In years to come when kids come to do the tour of the ground, what will be there to shows Sean's success?

You don't get trophies for surviving in the Premier League or getting kicked out of Europe early. He is choosing to not leave his mark in the trophy cabinet and I think that is a shame.



That wasn't your opening argument at all though was it?

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Ashingtonclaret46 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:07 pm

Steddyman wrote:I'm talking about Sean's transfer dealings, not the last 19 years. He has made some good signings in his time, but they have dried up more and more each year. He has got to the point where he can no longer make sufficient deals to strengthen the squad. I am not saying that is Sean's fault, but if he isn't happy needs to be making the board aware of how important it is to him and be prepared to backup the talk. Sometimes that takes calling them out in public. That is how other managers get their owners to back them up.


You mean that he should follow Rafa's lead at Newcastle? That seems to do a lot of good, it really gets the fans going against Mike Ashley and he has very broad shoulders and is owed a lot of money by the club, however, he just carried on regardless in spite of all the protestations.
Just because Sean Dyche doesn't make a fuss in public it doesn't mean that he isn't working in the background to try to make things happen. He is very businesslike in all his actions and is not one for stirring things up in public. That is his way of doing things and I like that fact, sometimes the biggest shouters are the ones who get ignored --- have a look at Rafa's record over recent times.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by TVC15 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:35 pm

Steddyman wrote:I'm talking about Sean's transfer dealings, not the last 19 years. He has made some good signings in his time, but they have dried up more and more each year. He has got to the point where he can no longer make sufficient deals to strengthen the squad. I am not saying that is Sean's fault, but if he isn't happy needs to be making the board aware of how important it is to him and be prepared to backup the talk. Sometimes that takes calling them out in public. That is how other managers get their owners to back them up.


Yep I know you were not talking about the last 19 years but you said every window so assume you meant every window under Dyche ? Or do you just mean the couple of bad windows we have had when we didn’t sign Heaton, Pope, JBG, Tarks, Keane, etc etc etc ?

Do you know what you actually mean ? Because it sounds to me like one of those fans who is perpetually unhappy about Burnley instead of trying to understand why the club approach things the way they do.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:09 pm

Spiral wrote:Literally nobody talks about the FA cup win. One league title, perhaps, but none of that helps us keep Tarkowski if we're relegated. You need to be more realistic.

You may not. But its something im proud we have won. And have a picture celebrating that great win hanging proudly at home.

Thinking of getting one underneath of this.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by JohnMac » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:14 pm

The best manager we have had since the maximum wage was abolished.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Lancasterclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:15 pm

It will be looked back as the galaxy looks back on the rule of the Jedi.

A halcyon age.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:15 pm

Steddyman wrote:I'm talking about Sean's transfer dealings, not the last 19 years. He has made some good signings in his time, but they have dried up more and more each year. He has got to the point where he can no longer make sufficient deals to strengthen the squad. I am not saying that is Sean's fault, but if he isn't happy needs to be making the board aware of how important it is to him and be prepared to backup the talk. Sometimes that takes calling them out in public. That is how other managers get their owners to back them up.


Hi Steddy, what makes you think that Sean Dyche and Mike Garlick and John B aren't 100% aligned in all the activities of the club?

How many seasons was Sean at Burnley before his "£3.5 million 5 year deal" was signed? Do you think this was long enough for the Board and our manager to get to know each other and work out that they wanted to continue their journey together?

We've got a poster on here who likes to reference "the realities." I think Sean gets the realities of Burnley football club better than any of us can do - other than Mike G and John B.

UTC
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:22 pm

JohnMac wrote:The best manager we have had since the maximum wage was abolished.


and, I would recommend any fan who doesn't understand what that means should get themselves down to Manchester (utd or city), Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal or Tottenham.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by SGr » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:23 pm

Barnfield is Dyche’s ultimate trophy.

Dragging this club into the 21st century on nothing, including sacrificing his budget for the sake of a new training ground, then bringing us back to the top level anyway is not something anyone could have envisaged. I’m a fierce critic on here, but he is the reason I can moan about this club not signing players worthy of a spot in Europe, as opposed to moaning about Eddie Howe not keeping a clean sheet half way down the Championship.

It’s all him.
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:29 pm

Extract from Rod Liddle in today's Sunday Times, Sport section:

"History tends to show us that the majority of the most successful managers have a good grounding in the game at a decent professional level but never quite set the world alight. Sir Alex Ferguson was a handy forward, but never made the full Scotland team; Arsène Wenger, meanwhile, was decidedly average.

Jurgen Klopp was a fairly anonymous water-carrier for Mainz for 10 years, and while both Mauricio Pochettino and Pep Guardiola represented their respective countries, neither were the really big stars of their day. Bill Shankly got a handful of caps for his country, Bob Paisley none at all. Brian Clough’s superb goalscoring record was confined, in the main, to the second division and he played only twice for England. The two best English managers in the Premier League right now, Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche, had their playing career highlights at Bournemouth and Watford respectively and never got near full international recognition."

So, what does that suggest Sean's history will show at Burnley? Certainly, one of the best English managers of current times - and Sean is still writing his history. Let's take a look again in another 10 years time.

UTC
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:39 pm

Blimey out in force this weekend after a defeat are the brain doners!
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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Stalbansclaret » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:55 pm

This might be helpful to Steddyman and anyone else wondering what it takes to be one of those fans who "tow the party line".

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/driv ... rk-it-out/

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by jrgbfc » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:55 pm

dandeclaret wrote:But there's no trophies for finishing above 17th, unless you finish first. That's what the OP was asking for, and latterly stating we wouldn't get them if we stayed in the prem.


I get that, it's more the mindset that the club and some of our fans have developed. Where is the excitement in simply aiming to survive every year? Apart from the European games back in the summer this season has been absolutely dismal. Maybe it's modern football that I'm falling out of love with? The way our away followings have plummeted this season shows it's not just me who's a bit bored with it at the moment.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:56 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Extract from Rod Liddle in today's Sunday Times, Sport section:

"History tends to show us that the majority of the most successful managers have a good grounding in the game at a decent professional level but never quite set the world alight. Sir Alex Ferguson was a handy forward, but never made the full Scotland team; Arsène Wenger, meanwhile, was decidedly average.

Jurgen Klopp was a fairly anonymous water-carrier for Mainz for 10 years, and while both Mauricio Pochettino and Pep Guardiola represented their respective countries, neither were the really big stars of their day. Bill Shankly got a handful of caps for his country, Bob Paisley none at all. Brian Clough’s superb goalscoring record was confined, in the main, to the second division and he played only twice for England. The two best English managers in the Premier League right now, Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche, had their playing career highlights at Bournemouth and Watford respectively and never got near full international recognition."

So, what does that suggest Sean's history will show at Burnley? Certainly, one of the best English managers of current times - and Sean is still writing his history. Let's take a look again in another 10 years time.

UTC

Id suggest this logic by Rod Liddle is a little flawed. Its far more likely that a top manager is not going to have been a top player as top players by definition are a small percentage of the overall volume of professional footballers in the world.

If for every top player that goes into coaching/management there is say 1000 decidedly average professional players than everything else being equal it is a thousand times more likely the average player will make it as a top manager over the superstar footballers.

There's other factors involved obviously but the idea is that the 0.001 % of players should end up as one of the best 20 or 30 managers in the world just doesnt add up

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Steddyman » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:15 pm

Forget it. You're not worth it.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Paul Waine » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:19 pm

Devils_Advocate wrote:Id suggest this logic by Rod Liddle is a little flawed. Its far more likely that a top manager is not going to have been a top player as top players by definition are a small percentage of the overall volume of professional footballers in the world.

If for every top player that goes into coaching/management there is say 1000 decidedly average professional players than everything else being equal it is a thousand times more likely the average player will make it as a top manager over the superstar footballers.

There's other factors involved obviously but the idea is that the 0.001 % of players should end up as one of the best 20 or 30 managers in the world just doesnt add up


Hi DA, Liddle's article is about Thierry Henry va-va-vamooshing away from Monaco. Probably best that you read his article. My summary: great players rarely make great managers because they know that as a manager there are few, if any players in their team that are as good as the manager was as a player. So, their man management isn't great.

I'd suggest, humbly, that you've missed the point. Yes, there are only a few top players and a lot more "average" footballers - but, there are also only a limited number of top clubs, a maximum of 20 in any season in the Premier League, for example.

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by Devils_Advocate » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:26 pm

Paul Waine wrote:Hi DA, Liddle's article is about Thierry Henry va-va-vamooshing away from Monaco. Probably best that you read his article. My summary: great players rarely make great managers because they know that as a manager there are few, if any players in their team that are as good as the manager was as a player. So, their man management isn't great.

I'd suggest, humbly, that you've missed the point. Yes, there are only a few top players and a lot more "average" footballers - but, there are also only a limited number of top clubs, a maximum of 20 in any season in the Premier League, for example.

Fair enough then its your summary rather than the full article I disagree with. I stand by that if you have thousands of footballers going into management and only a small % of them are considered top players then the chance of one of the top players reaching the top of the management profession is logically small. We'll just have to disagree on this one cos we both have a clear opinion on this

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Re: What will Sean's history show at Burnley?

Post by ClaretTony » Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:28 pm

Steddyman wrote:In years to come when kids come to do the tour of the ground, what will be there to shows Sean's success?

You don't get trophies for surviving in the Premier League or getting kicked out of Europe early. He is choosing to not leave his mark in the trophy cabinet and I think that is a shame.


Two promotions, taken us to a level we haven't seen like this for over 40 years. His success outdoes every manager since Harry Potts. That's his mark and no shame in that.
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