ARTICLE: Moss rolling into Manchester again

[ClaretTony]

Info on tonight's referee

See link
http://www.uptheclarets.com/moss-rollin ... ster-again" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ashtonlongsider]

Along with Kevin Friend, Moss is my least favourite referee.

[claretspice]

Those comments from Coleman really are appalling, and the guff about it being straight after the game is no defence. He's obliged to act with a bit of self-control.

The truth of it is that these comments come about because managers in particular - but also fans, it seems to me - have got it into their minds that refs are always fair game, and treating refs with common decency and respect requires particular effort and restraint, rather than being the default setting. No wonder there's a shortage of refs coming into the game when they get treated like some sub-human species like this.

[houseboy]

Those comments from Coleman really are appalling, and the guff about it being straight after the game is no defence. He's obliged to act with a bit of self-control.

The truth of it is that these comments come about because managers in particular - but also fans, it seems to me - have got it into their minds that refs are always fair game, and treating refs with common decency and respect requires particular effort and restraint, rather than being the default setting. No wonder there's a shortage of refs coming into the game when they get treated like some sub-human species like this.

But they don't always do a good job and some are so far up themselves you can't see them. I think it should be fine to criticise them because if they don't get that criticism they will think they never get things wrong. I love it when managers give them stick and it's a shame that those managers get in trouble for doing so. Don't forget rubbish decisions can cost a club millions or the use of a player, bring on VAR and let's take the mistakes out of human hands.

[claretspice]

But they don't always do a good job and some are so far up themselves you can't see them. I think it should be fine to criticise them because if they don't get that criticism they will think they never get things wrong. I love it when managers give them stick and it's a shame that those managers get in trouble for doing so. Don't forget rubbish decisions can cost a club millions or the use of a player, bring on VAR and let's take the mistakes out of human hands.

But that's rubbish, isn't it. Firstly, because it's perfectly possible for managers to criticise referees via the correct channels - i.e. in their post match assessment. Secondly, because they're also judged by an independent, impartial assessor. And thirdly because like any other professional, they're almost certainly their own biggest critics when they get decisions wrong. Just like players actually - managers rarely criticise players in public because they know it's counter-productive.

Secondly, even if VAR can dispense with the role of the referee at the top level - and it can't, that's nonsense too, because even VAR involves a human making decisions and we've already seen that it's not perfect - it can't do away with them at the lower levels of the game.

Finally, we're dealing with human beings here and a bit of basic common decency is the bare minimum with which anyone should be treated in any situation. The culture of open warfare on refs at the top end of the game is a cancer on the sport and it needs stamping out.

[Vino blanco]

I fear the worst with him in charge.

[Chobulous]

But that's rubbish, isn't it. Firstly, because it's perfectly possible for managers to criticise referees via the correct channels - i.e. in their post match assessment. Secondly, because they're also judged by an independent, impartial assessor. And thirdly because like any other professional, they're almost certainly their own biggest critics when they get decisions wrong. Just like players actually - managers rarely criticise players in public because they know it's counter-productive.

Secondly, even if VAR can dispense with the role of the referee at the top level - and it can't, that's nonsense too, because even VAR involves a human making decisions and we've already seen that it's not perfect - it can't do away with them at the lower levels of the game.

Finally, we're dealing with human beings here and a bit of basic common decency is the bare minimum with which anyone should be treated in any situation. The culture of open warfare on refs at the top end of the game is a cancer on the sport and it needs stamping out.

Mark Hughes was a perfect example of this mindset. Nothing was ever his fault it was always the referee. Rafa Benitez has Mike Ashley that he can always blame so he doesn't need the referee for his deflections.

[houseboy]

But that's rubbish, isn't it. Firstly, because it's perfectly possible for managers to criticise referees via the correct channels - i.e. in their post match assessment. Secondly, because they're also judged by an independent, impartial assessor. And thirdly because like any other professional, they're almost certainly their own biggest critics when they get decisions wrong. Just like players actually - managers rarely criticise players in public because they know it's counter-productive.

Secondly, even if VAR can dispense with the role of the referee at the top level - and it can't, that's nonsense too, because even VAR involves a human making decisions and we've already seen that it's not perfect - it can't do away with them at the lower levels of the game.

Finally, we're dealing with human beings here and a bit of basic common decency is the bare minimum with which anyone should be treated in any situation. The culture of open warfare on refs at the top end of the game is a cancer on the sport and it needs stamping out.

Point one: managers can and do get in trouble for criticising referees in post match interviews.
Point two: I didn't say get rid of referees in favour of VAR I simply pointed out it would rid us of their errors by taking the major decisions out of their hands. And it CAN go down to the lower levels of the professional game, even the National League.
Point three: common decency is all very well but if a human error has cost you a player for a few games, or got you knocked out of a cup or lost you a higher place in the league and cost the club money you are not going to be disposed to being 'nice' about it.

[claretspice]

Not sure you've entirely got the point, but never mind. In no world is it OK to verbally or physically abuse someone because he made an honest mistake, however angry it has made you.

[Dyched]

Coleman went far beyond just criticising Moss at the weekend. He was way, way out of line. He was a disgrace imho. Fine criticise him. Don’t lie and make up all kinds of bullshit. I sometimes wish referees came out and responded. Something like “I’m glad I wont ever have to referee at your tinpot, joke of a football club again” would have been perfect.

[Silkyskills1]

Why would you consider Accrington Stanley to be a 'joke of a football club'? A perfect model, for any small,aspiring club in lower league football of what can be achieved.

[ElectroClaret]

Nowt wrong with Stanley, but Coleman's become a serial whinger. Had the two clear fouls which generated the two yellows been committed by Derby players, he'd have
been screaming for a red. Like Hughes, as mentioned by Chobulous above, its always the ref to blame.

As for Moss, got the big decisions right against Accy, but generally, he's a nob.

[Greeny]

Coleman has unfortunately now joined the Warnock/Hughes/Mourinho club of appalling post match behaviour. "It's always the refs fault" never the numerous opportunities their team have missed throughout the 90 mins or poor decision making from their players.

I do think these managers should be made to ref pre-season friendlies and maybe then they will realise what a damned difficult job it is, despite doing your best. Having said that I am sure Warnock would manage to forget quickly any wrong decisions he made in that situation and revert to type by blaming the linesman......

[claretgimmer]

How will criticism eradicate errors by referees, your post implies they do it on purpose and a reprimand will eradicate the mistakes, sorry but that will never happen. I accept that there are refs who are better alround than others but when you have 22 blokes playing a fast paced sport too many of who are trying to pull the wool over the refs eyes to gain an advantage or decision it`s a thankless task. There are those who come across as arrogant but then again so do many players, remember no ref no game.

[ClaretTony]

Mark Hughes was a perfect example of this mindset. Nothing was ever his fault it was always the referee.

Hughes was the worst of the lot.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

But that's rubbish, isn't it. Firstly, because it's perfectly possible for managers to criticise referees via the correct channels - i.e. in their post match assessment. Secondly, because they're also judged by an independent, impartial assessor. And thirdly because like any other professional, they're almost certainly their own biggest critics when they get decisions wrong. Just like players actually - managers rarely criticise players in public because they know it's counter-productive.

Secondly, even if VAR can dispense with the role of the referee at the top level - and it can't, that's nonsense too, because even VAR involves a human making decisions and we've already seen that it's not perfect - it can't do away with them at the lower levels of the game.

Finally, we're dealing with human beings here and a bit of basic common decency is the bare minimum with which anyone should be treated in any situation. The culture of open warfare on refs at the top end of the game is a cancer on the sport and it needs stamping out.

Just to add to the above. It is an observer who now goes to watch the referee and he is then given a video of the match so that he can watch it all again and make his observations. His observations then go to a committee (three people I think) and they also watch the video of the match and take not of his the observations. They then go back to the observer and ask if he wishes to change anything in his report before it is sent to the officials who officiated on that day. This was brought in a couple of seasons ago because there were rumblings that some officials were being 'fast tracked' by assessors who may have been friends.

Officials put in a lot of time and effort to earn promotions and to maintain their fitness, however, they are always maligned by managers, players, media, pundits and fans, even for the slightest mistake which is made in good faith during a game being played at a hectic pace and they make the decisions at that pace ---not with the benefit of 28 slow motion replays each giving a different viewpoint.

[Bordeauxclaret]

Coleman was out of order the other day.
Still, Moss is still a dreadful referee and has proved that over a number of years.

Let’s hope his mistakes go in our favour tonight.

[mybloodisclaret]

Coleman was out of order the other day.
Still, Moss is still a dreadful referee and has proved that over a number of years.

Let’s hope his mistakes go in our favour tonight.

He is a poor ref.... and will if any decisions are either way, I am pretty sure I know which side of the fence he will come down on.

Hope I am on here apologising profusely tomorrow, claiming he is one of the best and just slightly misunderstood.

[Taffy on the wing]

Coleman was out of order the other day.
Still, Moss is still a dreadful referee and has proved that over a number of years.

Let’s hope his mistakes go in our favour tonight.

Not a chance ....his sole job is to see Man Utd get the three points.

[dougcollins]

I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree with that.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

There are certain top flight refs you can almost guarantee will make a controversial call in a game week in and week out, some are simply not up to standard yet week in week out don't appear to be pulled up and instead some appear to be rewarded by officiating a high profile game the following week. Moss is one of those refs along with Pawson, Mason, Friend, Taylor,Scott.

It's all too predictable that at some point one will drop a massive bollock on virtually a game by game basis

Rant over

[IanMcL]

Too cold for him. He'll have a coat on.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

As I was saying earlier this evening!!

[Giftonsnoidea]

Couldn’t wait to give a pen tonight even when it wasn’t in the box.

Appalling homer ala Friend

FA should drop him like a ton of bricks, really really poor ...

[bfcmik]

Couldn’t wait to give a pen tonight even when it wasn’t in the box.

Appalling homer ala Friend

FA should drop him like a ton of bricks, really really poor ...

I think he wanted to give one because he was informed by the 4th official that he should have given one earlier against Westwood

[scouseclaret]

Couldn’t wait to give a pen tonight even when it wasn’t in the box.

Appalling homer ala Friend

FA should drop him like a ton of bricks, really really poor ...

He isn’t a homer when he’s at Turf Moor. Refs like him just want to endear themselves to the big clubs- it’s how they think they get on in their careers. They may be right.

[Giftonsnoidea]

He isn’t a homer when he’s at Turf Moor. Refs like him just want to endear themselves to the big clubs- it’s how they think they get on in their careers. They may be right.

When the bias is so obvious it’s pathetic, can we not just have an honest result for a change.

The lads deserved all three last night robbed again....

[Longside4evr]

We ****** him off in the first half when he finally awarded us a free kick and all the away end Hola hola to a decision he finally had to give

[claretspice]

Got to be honest, I'm not sure he got a decision "wrong" (as opposed to being one that could have gone a different way - football decisions are not black and white) all night and I'm certainly not sure the United fans around me would agree he overtly favoured United. They were frustrated with various decisions, just as I could hear the Burnley fans were.

The pen is a bit contentious, but anyone needs to turn their fire there on Lingaard, not Moss. He gave a decision that looked correct in real time from my angle. He got the other penalty shout right - no shame in changing your mind in time when you would otherwise get it wrong. The idea is he wanted to give it against us and was "forced by the linesman" (who made no visible signal) is just paranoid and absurd.

The offside for the equaliser - well that's the linesman. These things happen in crowded penalty areas unfortunately.

Timewasting - we were at it, we can't deny it. We can debate 4 minutes or 5 but anyone seriously suggesting that United wouldn't have rolled forwards with the same intensity had 4 minutes been signalled is a little deluged I think. You can debate Taylor's card but Heaton could quite easily have been carded previously.

Moss isn't an absolutely brilliant ref, but did OK last night.

[Goodclaret]

He got the other penalty shout right - no shame in changing your mind in time when you would otherwise get it wrong. The idea is he wanted to give it against us and was "forced by the linesman" (who made no visible signal) is just paranoid and absurd.

My main point with this decision is he should be as good as 100% to give a penalty. He couldn't possibly have been as the foul was outside the area. He "guessed" it was in and that's not good enough for me. He should have stopped play and talked to his assistant not just assumed it was a penalty. When you see a ref do things like this you doubt his integrity and therefore will give fans the chance to say "he couldn't wait to give it". Unfortunately, with Moss, he has proven to be consistently poor on big decisions for us. I think he is a poor official and very lucky to working in the PL.

Edit: Sorry, I agree on most of the rest of your post

[conyoviejo]

If only Hendrick hadn't put his hand on the Muncs shoulder ..Silly thing to do when Moss was looking all over for decisions to give against us.. An awful referee..

[THEWELLERNUT70]

There are certain top flight refs you can almost guarantee will make a controversial call in a game week in and week out, some are simply not up to standard yet week in week out don't appear to be pulled up and instead some appear to be rewarded by officiating a high profile game the following week. Moss is one of those refs along with Pawson, Mason, Friend, Taylor,Scott.

It's all too predictable that at some point one will drop a massive bollock on virtually a game by game basis

Rant over

And another one ticked off the list I posted before the Man U game!!

How the actual f@ck has Taylor missed potentially the most blatant of penalties for a foul on Barnes. An utter disgrace of a decision!!

[THEWELLERNUT70]

And another one ticked off the list. It appears both managers are deeply unhappy with Friends performance last night!

[THEWELLERNUT70]

But that's rubbish, isn't it. Firstly, because it's perfectly possible for managers to criticise referees via the correct channels - i.e. in their post match assessment. Secondly, because they're also judged by an independent, impartial assessor. And thirdly because like any other professional, they're almost certainly their own biggest critics when they get decisions wrong. Just like players actually - managers rarely criticise players in public because they know it's counter-productive.

Secondly, even if VAR can dispense with the role of the referee at the top level - and it can't, that's nonsense too, because even VAR involves a human making decisions and we've already seen that it's not perfect - it can't do away with them at the lower levels of the game.

Finally, we're dealing with human beings here and a bit of basic common decency is the bare minimum with which anyone should be treated in any situation. The culture of open warfare on refs at the top end of the game is a cancer on the sport and it needs stamping out.

Mark Halsey has stated this morning on TalkSport that at present there is no referees assessor at the ground and games and incidents are reviewed instead by a post match panel.

It's a situation that apparently most top flight refs are unhappy with

[grapidianclaret]

Referees can't have their cake and eat it. The F.A has to take a lot of the blame for not retroactively putting a stop to the real cancer in the game, the cheating. A few draconian measures would put a stop to the diving etc, immediately. Punish the club and the player. The ref's could push really hard for such measures, it would make their jobs easier after all. We got royally screwed with the Gray suspension, fair or not , it happened. Long bans and fines for cheating players and point deductions for clubs with repeating offenders would curb the cheating culture that has football by the balls.
V.A.R is not the answer. It could help, it should help, but without off field punishments, it will not prevent this awful cheating from permeating the game.