Tonight’s Pen

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AlargeClaret
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Tonight’s Pen

Postby AlargeClaret » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:54 pm

Looked unbelievably soft in real time and Lingard when down like a cheap pros, I was amazed when the pen was given

# 2
Chester Perry
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Chester Perry » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:55 pm

not one we would get in a million years in this league

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Tall Paul
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Tall Paul » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:55 pm

I thought it was soft as well.

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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:56 pm

A dive not sure how a ‘pull’ makes you lose use of both your legs. Fat boy Moss couldn’t wait to give it.
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Vino blanco
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Vino blanco » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:56 pm

Seen the replays, in my opinion it was undoubtedly a pen. I just don't understand what Hendrick was thinking.
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Rileybobs
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Rileybobs » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:57 pm

He looked desperate to give them a pen. Probably because it gives him a minute or two to catch his breath. He had pointed to the spot shortly before but was over-ruled by his assistant.

That said, if you put your arm on the opposition in the box the streetwise ones will hit the deck and win a penalty. Very soft but not sure we can have complaints.
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quoonbeatz
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby quoonbeatz » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:58 pm

it was a blatant dive and should be one for the review posse to suspend lingard with.

being touched on the shoulder doesn't make you kick both your legs back in the air.

naive from hendrick to touch him as he'll always take the cheaty option but there we go.
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Foulthrow
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Foulthrow » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:59 pm

We’d never get that. Officials have potentially cost us 4 points in the last two games. That’s the difference between staying up and going down.
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Steve-Harpers-perm
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Steve-Harpers-perm » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:00 pm

Exactly not a chance he would have given us a penalty had it been the other way round.
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tiger76
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby tiger76 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:01 pm

Silly of Jeff to make contact,always gives the ref a chance to point to the spot,can't really complain,a point gained we didn't expect so let's move on to the weekend.

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MRG
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby MRG » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:01 pm

I said to those around me that he was looking for an excuse to give them a penalty however let’s not forget the handball that we got away with earlier in the game
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# 12
AlargeClaret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby AlargeClaret » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:01 pm

The dive was shocking and only when in slow mo does it look life Jeff has “ hauled him round” I hate to call refs but id swear he was literally itching to give them a pen and as for the 5 mins ( not his decision ) seemed utterly bizzare
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# 13
aggi
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby aggi » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:13 pm

The hand on the shoulder clearly didn't cause him to fly in the air like that but in the current game there's a pretty good chance that grabbing someone's shoulder will result in a penalty being awarded so it was silly from Hendrick.

Although I suspect that the pundits who were saying that Long didn't fall over naturally the other week won't be making the same comments about Lingard.
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Vino blanco
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Vino blanco » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:16 pm

But why did Hendrick get hold of him and pull him in the first place? He was going nowhere, there was simply no need.

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Alicanteclaret2
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Alicanteclaret2 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:16 pm

Top teams get penalties, perhaps because they are in penalty area more. I doubt it was ever likely to be given to us, refs do seem to fold under pressure.

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Dyched
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Dyched » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:21 pm

Quite clearly a penalty
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dsr
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby dsr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:21 pm

This is how the FA wants it to be. Referees are under specific instruction that if there is any contact and the player hits the floor, then it is a foul. Obviously if the FA or the Referees' Society was interested in fairness, they would also give penalties for every time there is contact and the player doesn't hit the floor. But they aren't interested in fairness, they're interested in making decisions very easy for referees. So the decision is, hit the floor = foul, stay on your feet = no foul.

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dsr
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby dsr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:22 pm

Alicanteclaret2 wrote:Top teams get penalties, perhaps because they are in penalty area more. I doubt it was ever likely to be given to us, refs do seem to fold under pressure.

It wouldn't have been given to us because our players aren't good enough at falling over. The reason we haven't had a penalty in 67 League games isn't because no-one has touched a Burnley player int he penalty area in 67 games; it's because they don't practice losing control of all bodily functions.

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Cubanclaret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Cubanclaret » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:33 pm

With the exception of Barnes, who does well to manufacture opposition fouls out of nothing, we are not adept in the art of winning penalties or fouls in dangerous areas.
A blinkered Man Utd friend of mine responded to my observation that it was a pathetic penalty award by saying they should have had two (defo) and possibly three, he also said Bardsley should have definitely been sent off for two yellows. Admittedly I was getting a bit excited but can anyone vouch for this claim ?

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FCBurnley
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby FCBurnley » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:38 pm

I am 71 and very much doubt I will ever see Clarets get a pen in the PL

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IanMcL
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby IanMcL » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:45 pm

Cheating b stard ref giving everything to get MU a pen and then 5 mins added...and they knew that in 88 mins and only 1 sub made by Burnley.

Prem corruption at its almost barefaced.
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# 22
dsr
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby dsr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:50 pm

Even Andy Payton (not biased towards Man U!) predicted 5 or 6 minutes injury time, because of extreme time wasting.
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# 23
Goodclaret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Goodclaret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:05 am

I think Jeff gave an easy option for the absolutely woeful Moss to give a pen which Jeff has to, unfortunately, learn from. However, if that hand had been on Barnse's shoulder and he'd gone down there is not a feckin cat in hells chance Moss would have given it.

As for the 5 minutes ET, that was always going to be the case and I can't really complain about that. The only thing, once again, is the inconsistencies. When Utd were at the Turf this season their time wasting was awful. Guess what? No bookings for them and only 3 minutes added on at the end. Obviously, back then it wasn't going to change the result but ref's must be consistent. If not, fans will always question their integrity.

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TVC15
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby TVC15 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:15 am

The only way you can fix the simulation / exaggeration is bring in a new rule which says that simulation or exaggeration of contact allows the referee to overturn a foul and give this to opposing team - with yellow card for simulation / exaggeration outside box and straight red inside.

I know this will still leave a lot of grey areas and room for subjectivity but players and managers know full well what exaggeration of contact means so the referees should aswell. All you need is a few brave referees to give a few decisions which will be backed up by ex player pundits like Shearer....and gradually players will stop doing this if they are going to deny themselves penalties or pick up suspensions.

They won’t bring this in though because very few people in the game care that players are cheating and the big teams have more cheats than anyone.

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charlyt
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby charlyt » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:18 am

:lol: MU are cheats and robbers.
The ref was dreadful and should be retired.
The geezer who added 5 extra minutes should be the next time lord.
Their fans are plastic muppets
And our manager is head and shoulders better than theirs.
UP THE CLARETS.
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MT03ALG
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby MT03ALG » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:18 am

Moss was absolutely delighted to have the chance of giving his favourite team a second penalty having been thwarted on the first occasion by the linesman. A joke of a referee, only interested in appeasing 70,000 home fans.

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ClaretLoup
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby ClaretLoup » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:20 am

Nice idea but if the touch comes before the simulation then it is still a foul. If the player starts to go down then is touched, it should be a yellow card for simulation. But in real time how can refs tell the difference?

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TVC15
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby TVC15 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:34 am

ClaretLoup wrote:Nice idea but if the touch comes before the simulation then it is still a foul. If the player starts to go down then is touched, it should be a yellow card for simulation. But in real time how can refs tell the difference?


Because exaggeration is cheating and trying to deceive the officials. You should not have to do this to secure a penalty or free kick. In a lot of cases referees should know what is an unnatural fall and that the slightest of touches does not lead to someone flinging themselves to the ground.

Like I said absolutely loads of grey areas but a few brave decisions could start to make players reconsider cheating and start to eradicate this.
Players, managers, referees and fans all know this is cheating so why do we all just accept it ?
Even if some referees bottle the decision like undoubtedly they would have a review panel with “honest” ex pros like Keown and Shearer and they will very quickly be able to tell referees and players why what they are doing constitutes exaggeration and therefore cheating.

It’s an absolute myth that contact = automatic penalty. Players are making contact with each other all the time in the penalty area.
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ClaretLoup
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby ClaretLoup » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:42 am

I can see where you are coming from and understand your exasperation, however as the rules stand if you initiate contact with an opponent before touching the ball it is a foul.

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Ilkley claret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Ilkley claret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:43 am

As soon as we went 2 nil up, I said the crowd would get them a pen and the ref would give them loads of added time to get the equaliser.

The game is fixed for the big teams.

We should be 4 points better off than we are.

Immense performance from the team and hopefully we can use the injustice as motivation for Sat.

The turnaround in performances has been massive and huge credit to Dyche and the team for that.



Very proud Claret tonight
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TVC15
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby TVC15 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:56 am

ClaretLoup wrote:I can see where you are coming from and understand your exasperation, however as the rules stand if you initiate contact with an opponent before touching the ball it is a foul.


Which is why I said change the rules - it’s the only way.

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Vegas Claret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Vegas Claret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:24 am

100% pen, Hendrick was stupid

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Clarets4me
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:37 am

Dyched wrote:Quite clearly a penalty


******** !

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yorkyclaret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby yorkyclaret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:43 am

Dont see why there is a problem with 5 mins extra. 2nd half had 4 goals 4 bookings and 3 substitutions, that's 5 and a half mins without adding the timewasting.

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scouseclaret
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby scouseclaret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:45 am

Hendrick was indeed stupid, but it was never a penalty. Hendrick was stupid because he should have known Moss was desperate to give them a penalty. That was obvious when Rashford charged into (I think) Ben Mee and went down, and he gave them a pen, only to be over-ruled by his linesman. (Both the officials got that wrong - it was never a foul, but it was in the area!)

Why Hendrick put his hand on his shoulder only he knows, but Lingard cheated in a way that only players at the big clubs can get away with. Never in a million years would that have been given at the other end.

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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Clarets4me » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:54 am

Hendrick was indeed stupid ..... Rashford and Lingard are cheats ....

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JimMcDonald
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby JimMcDonald » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:32 am

Penalty ???? Hahahahahahaha never seen. Fkin robbed if it was barnes at the other end and Lidelof chocolates had brushed him do you think it would be a PK ? NEVER !!!!

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box_of_frogs
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby box_of_frogs » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:26 am

dsr wrote:Even Andy Payton (not biased towards Man U!) predicted 5 or 6 minutes injury time, because of extreme time wasting.

Yep. Our attempts to waste time are cringeworthy, purely because we are so bad at it. How many yellow cards have we picked up this season for time wasting?
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MDWat
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby MDWat » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:29 am

Pretty surprised people don’t think that’s a pen. Clearly grabs his shoulder and pulls him.

Got away with one with the Westwood handball, but as mentioned a few times above, Moss couldn’t wait to give a penalty. The one he tried to give for the foul outside the box was an absolute disgrace, it was miles outside.

# 40
Turftalkers mentor
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Turftalkers mentor » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:49 am

There is no doubt that the top six get looked after in terms of decisions . As for Mr Moss just another faux pas when it comes to refereeing Burnley . Somebody with strength of character like Mark Clattenburg (I know he's retired) would have waved Lingard away

# 41
MACCA
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby MACCA » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:51 am

A pen, but a soft and avoidable one.

Moss was looking to give as soon as we went infront, thank goodness the lino over ruled him on the earlier one, or we might have not even got a point.

# 42
beddie
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby beddie » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:04 am

Rileybobs wrote:He looked desperate to give them a pen. Probably because it gives him a minute or two to catch his breath. He had pointed to the spot shortly before but was over-ruled by his assistant.

"That said, if you put your arm on the opposition in the box the streetwise ones will hit the deck and win a penalty. Very soft but not sure we can have complaints.
"

I haven't seen it yet but if it's as I read it on here why then aren't refs giving penalties every time there is a corner, some of the defending is almost assault like.

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skibum84
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby skibum84 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:10 am

If referees believe that is a penalty, then it must be 60+ games since any opposition has put a hand on a burnley player. We all know this isn’t true.
What annoys me most is we never hear from the FA or premier league about diving. The biggest influence on people’s opinion is the media.....”there was contact”.....”he was clever there”. :oops:

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Masham Ale
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Masham Ale » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:14 am

Never a pen, but why did Hendrick touch him!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waq8J6mrWr8
Anyone got the clip of Tarkowski pushing Rashford by the byline in the 1st half - no foul given. Barnes being pushed... Total inconsistency.
Robbed of 4 points in the last 2 games by cr@p decisions.
Reminds me of the Ramsey dive
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Corky
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Corky » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:34 am

Dyched wrote:Quite clearly a penalty


Quite clearly delusional.

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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby TVC15 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:49 am

For all those people saying this is penalty can they explain how a slight pull on somebody’s shoulder can physically cause someone to fall forward ?
At least if that cheating two hat had dived backwards it would have not defied science.

Give it a try today at work - grab a colleague by the shoulder and see if he falls forward !

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boatshed bill
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby boatshed bill » Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:50 am

Masham Ale wrote:Never a pen, but why did Hendrick touch him!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Waq8J6mrWr8
Anyone got the clip of Tarkowski pushing Rashford by the byline in the 1st half - no foul given. Barnes being pushed... Total inconsistency.
Robbed of 4 points in the last 2 games by cr@p decisions.
Reminds me of the Ramsey dive


That really is a fantastic dive by Ramsey. Embarrassing.

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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Colburn_Claret » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:01 am

Not a penalty, but we can't have any complaints.
It's Jeff's fault really, because everybody knows that if you touch Lingard in the box, he is going down like a sack of spuds. If we all know it, so should he, so he's nobody to blame but himself, no matter how soft it was.
I sympathise with him in the heat of the moment, but just don't give the ref a decision to make, because history shows, especially with Moss, that officials are actively looking for an excuse to help the big boys out.

As for the offside, significantly they never showed the equaliser from side on. So I'm presuming he was offside. I'll catch the highlights when I get in to see.



The media, and people claim that these decisions even themselves out over the season. What a load of ****. It might be like that in life, but not in the premiership.
Referees can make a wrong call against Burnley, and no one but us could care less. Make a wrong call against the big boys and they'd get slated by the club and the media. It might not be deliberate, but subconsciously they are pre disposed to go in favour of the top 6. The problem will be the same for all the other small fish in the league.
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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby TVC15 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:07 am

You are right CC.
Referees who upset the big teams too often end up getting demoted to the lower leagues. Literally they risk their livelihood...they are paid very well these days.

Look at the influence the likes of SAF had on the game - not just Fergie time but he had a massive say on which referees United got or didn’t get. Similar scenario with Wenger.....and no doubt with Pep now.

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Re: Tonight’s Pen

Postby Rick_Muller » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:07 am

Masham Ale wrote:Reminds me of the Ramsey dive

The amount of actual force applied by Hendrick’s hand on Lingard is equal to the force applied to Ramsey’s back by Tarkowski... which is embarrassing for a fully fit grown athlete to drop like they've been shot after "contact". It is a f#cking disgrace.
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