Does the Real Blame Lie With Sean Dyche ?

[JTClaret]

I don't think we need a huge rebuilding job. The main part of the first team isn't at retirement age.

The windows seem to keep getting worse though. Imagine if McNeil hadn't broke through.
I'm gutted Vokes has gone, but I can see the reasons why. He has been replaced till the end of the season.
It's more the complete lack of activity that the worrying thing - If Stoke didn't come in for Vokes would Crouch have been looked at, I doubt it - which leaves us with who? Another striker untried at premier league level for a big sum... and that's it.

I understand why we may keep our business quiet - but all it does now is make the fans feel like no effort is being made.
I'm at a point where I'd rather someone else come in and pip us to a player than feel like we didn't even look.

[Turftalkers mentor]

Should our abysmal record in the market be laid at the feet of Mike Garlick or is it down to a one dimensional manager who lacks the imagination to spend available funds ?

I’m increasingly thinking the latter.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but of course you're wrong .

[claret59]

Some ( the vast majority,) of posts on this topic are quite shameful. With the exception of Newcastle ( and sadly Cardiff,) no other PL club has done much business of any magnitude in this window. Running a football club is easy if you are sat on the side lines saying what should be done but it is a different matter when you are the one carrying the responsibilities and juggling the likely outcomes. It is not an exact science.
All clubs have successful signings and failures in equal measure. It is not that long ago that Wood was being slated on here and some were urging the Club to get rid.
Perhaps there is no-one to blame. This is as good as it gets.

[Dougall]

When my kids were small, they spent autumns looking through the Argos catalogue and folding down the corners of pages with the toys they wanted.
By December 1 pretty much EVERY page corner in the toys section was turned down.
When my daughter's17th b/day was approaching, she reminded us daily that all her friends' parents bought them new cars for their 17th b/days!
My wife and I - as the adults responsible for family matters (including, but not limited to, financial matters)- in each case had to make solid, sustainable (good) decisions on what could - realistically - be delivered. Much to the disappointment of our children!
Perhaps we should leave the running of the Club to the grown-ups?

[Hipper]

let's see

19 July 2016 Jóhann Berg Guðmundsson
19 July 2016 Nick Pope
16 August 2016 Steven Defour
31 August 2016 Jeff Hendrick
1 January 2017 Joey Barton
31 January 2017 Ashley Westwood
31 January 2017 Robbie Brady
6 July 2017 Charlie Taylor
7 July 2016 Jonathan Walters
11 July 2017 Jack Cork
25 July 2017 Phil Bardsley
8 August 2017 Adam Legzdins
21 August 2017 Chris Wood
31 August 2017 Nahki Wells
21 September 2017 Anders Lindegaard
23 January 2018 Aaron Lennon
5 August 2018 Ben Gibson
7 August 2018 Joe Hart
8 August 2018 Matěj Vydra
31 January 2019 Peter Crouch

....because for every great signing there are 2 or 3 crap ones which really were panic buys or gambles which have spectacularly failed, and which blow our "careful with our money" tag clean out the water. A lot of money has been wasted there, not so much on fees maybe, but definitely on wages.

Looking at that list, apart from the special case of goalkeepers, there are only two signings I would regard as failures: Walters, from whom I expected something but perhaps 'cos of injuries hasn't delivered, and Wells, which was a relatively cheap gamble. For Gibson and Vydra it's too early to say but the rest have contributed at times.

[RingoMcCartney]

Absolutely it does.

It's entirely his fault that we've been promoted to the premier league TWICE and stopped there for , at least , 3 consecutive seasons.

[TVC15]

let's see

19 July 2016 Jóhann Berg Guðmundsson
19 July 2016 Nick Pope
16 August 2016 Steven Defour
31 August 2016 Jeff Hendrick
1 January 2017 Joey Barton
31 January 2017 Ashley Westwood
31 January 2017 Robbie Brady
6 July 2017 Charlie Taylor
7 July 2016 Jonathan Walters
11 July 2017 Jack Cork
25 July 2017 Phil Bardsley
8 August 2017 Adam Legzdins
21 August 2017 Chris Wood
31 August 2017 Nahki Wells
21 September 2017 Anders Lindegaard
23 January 2018 Aaron Lennon
5 August 2018 Ben Gibson
7 August 2018 Joe Hart
8 August 2018 Matěj Vydra
31 January 2019 Peter Crouch

What I see is a lot of first team appearances - with the greatest number coming from players signed between the ages of 23-26 (Cork apart) as most would hope - it is the punts - who have cost considerably less - which don't always work out but some have made significant contributions despite taking time to win the crowd over - particularly Westwood and Bardsley

I deliberately offer no opinion as to who I think is good or bad - rather I look at what those signings have contributed to our status as a Premier League team

Don’t think that’s a bad list at all tbh.
Total transfer cost about £100m and worth more than that now.
Let’s not forget his dealings before that either “earned” him the luxury of strengthening his squad numbers and the inevitable consequence of buying a couple of duds or getting unlucky with injuries etc. Keane, Gray and Tarks bought for about £15m in total and 2 of em sold for nearly £50m and the other worth £30m at least.

There has never been a point in the last few years when we have had all posters happy with Dyche - however well we were doing.
On our transfer record I know I have asked the question several times to these posters to show me a club in the Premier League that has made fewer expensive mistakes than Burnley...never seen anyone answer that with facts.

That’s not to say I am happy with the last couple of windows - i’m not and what we did yesterday feels like a very big risk to have taken. I’d love Netflix to do a series on us so we understood a bit more how hard it is or whether there are failings in our approach. Just maybe we’d see that agents and players demands are more ridiculous than ever ?

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I don’t care which individual is to blame, that’s irrelevant to the situation. Burnley Football Club is a business and as such the head of the business takes the blame for its collective failings.

This window and windows before it have frankly been unacceptable from a recruitment view.

I understand the limitations, I understand the budgets, I understand the mercenary nature of footballers and their agents and so do the board and employees of BFC. Therefore there is NO excuse to not be proactive and find solutions to these limitations.

[Spijed]

Surely there can only be blame if we get relegated?

[Quickenthetempo]

Surely there can only be blame if we get relegated?

By then it's too late.

[Tall Paul]

By then it's too late.

What do you hope to achieve by apportioning blame now?

[summitclaret]

I am not interested in blame -- just action to mitigate the risk of going down, which is out wide and in cm.

[TVC15]

Other than the top 6 or 7 we all get relegated sooner or later.
I’d learn to live with it as it will happen.
Blame who you want if it makes you feel better - it won’t change a thing.

We know how difficult it was for Burnley to get in the Premier League....and it’s equally difficult for us to stay there by the looks of it.

At some point the natural order of things resume...and **** knows what some fans on this messageboard will be like when it does !

[Long Time Lurker]

I’d love Netflix to do a series on us so we understood a bit more how hard it is or whether there are failings in our approach. Just maybe we’d see that agents and players demands are more ridiculous than ever ?

We would probably fail to negotiate the fee with them and get the broadcast contract signed in time.

[Marney&Mee]

Blame ??!!

Vokes wanted to go and we got good money for him. Crouch, not ideal, but hey ho, great sub for the last 15 mins of a game.

Football is to blame. We can afford the transfer fees, won't be held to ransom, don't want to pay £90k a week for players we don't think are worth it.

If that Che fella didn't really fancy coming to Burnley, so be it. Plenty of others will.

The way we have played since Heaton came back in fills me with 100% confidence that we'll stay up.

Beat Soton on Saturday (with Crouch poking home a 93rd minute winner), we are 8 points clear of Cardiff (taking GD into account)

Anyway Crouch is one for the future. We'll probably loan him back to Stoke to aid his development...

[summitclaret]

What has 90k a week got to do with it. We won't be in the market for anyone who wants half that. We all know that.

[Quickenthetempo]

What do you hope to achieve by apportioning blame now?

The quicker you realise where the fault lies, the quicker you can fix it.

[Tall Paul]

The quicker you realise where the fault lies, the quicker you can fix it.

And what do you personally plan to do to fix it?

[Quickenthetempo]

And what do you personally plan to do to fix it?

Make social media campaigns against the culprit.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

Surely there can only be blame if we get relegated?

Absolutely not, in any business if you’re stood still you’re going backwards. That’s business and in football it’s even more important.

Adding to the quality and ‘offer’ of the business should be very high on our priorities. We’ve failed to do that in successive windows.

We can roll out the market is this and that, but it’s the market and we know this. So we either accept that we can’t compete and fall to a level that we’re nore comfortable with, or we get proactive and we choose to accept thay this seat at the top table requires a different direction and perspective.

I’m full of praise for Garlick, Dyche and all the custodians of BFC but It’s becoming worrying that we aren’t progressing as we could be.

It’s also disappointing that the Adams transfer was conducted in the media, this isn’t BFC usual manner and I’m sure it wasn’t from us. We need to command more respect when it comes to negotiating, we come from weak (Dyche comments in the media etc) and that’s an impossible starting point.

[BennyD]

Make social media campaigns against the culprit.

Typical snowflake reaction. Years ago, throwing one’s toys out of the cot was much the same thing. Grow a pair and get behind the club.

[Long Time Lurker]

I've been given a book to read for work: "QBQ! The question behind the question. - What I really ask yourself to eliminate blame, victim thinking, complaining and procrastination."

If I was a student and needed to do some research around the subject - thanks, guys. I think there's lots of "how not to do it" on this board.

I'd make a guess that Sean and the Board are already knowledgeable about this subject and, as they always do, take full responsibility for the successes (and short comings) of Burnley FC.

Enjoy the ride, guys.

UTC

I'm sorry for being pedantic, but doesn't the act of giving you the book automatically invalidate its contents?

Giving someone a book about changing the way they work implies that they need to change how they work, which is a form of direct criticism. The person who gave you the book is highlighting what they perceive to be an inadequacy or failing on your part and they are blaming you for it.

The simple act of giving you the book is their polite way of telling you that they don't think you are good enough and you need to make changes to improve yourself in their eyes.

If the principles in the book had any validity your personal accountability would have given rise to a surging need to find a soothing balm for your social and organisational apprehensions, without being directly provoked into thinking about it by an external oppressor.

Don't interpret this post as criticism, simply view it as my way of contributing to the greater good. In order to actively engage with a problem in a constructive and meaningful way it is always necessary to highlight the existence of the problem first.

This isn't always gentle or pretty as a perfect pink petal, but it is a vital part of the process that leads to change. Trying to formulate a helpful solution without grabbing the problem by the scruff of the neck and pulling it into the light of day is putting the cart before the horse. To address a problem you have to recognise a problem, otherwise it just gets swept under the rug and nothing ever gets done.

Perhaps you could post the book to our recruitment team ahead of their next meeting. Anything is worth a try at this point, even literary snake oil.

[Quickenthetempo]

Typical snowflake reaction. Years ago, throwing one’s toys out of the cot was much the same thing. Grow a pair and get behind the club.

What's a typical snowflake reaction?

I like snowflakes, they are beautiful. Is it supposed to be an insult?

[IanMcL]

A silly thread

[Quickenthetempo]

A silly thread

Well stay off it, instead of bumping it back to the top.

[Tall Paul]

The useless ******* has just been nominated for manager of the month.

[Danieljwaterhouse]

I'm sorry for being pedantic, but doesn't the act of giving you the book automatically invalidate its contents?

Giving someone a book about changing the way they work implies that they need to change how they work, which is a form of direct criticism. The person who gave you the book is highlighting what they perceive to be an inadequacy or failing on your part and they are blaming you for it.

The simple act of giving you the book is their polite way of telling you that they don't think you are good enough and you need to make changes to improve yourself in their eyes.

If the principles in the book had any validity your personal accountability would have given rise to a surging need to find a soothing balm for your social and organisational apprehensions, without being directly provoked into thinking about it by an external oppressor.

Don't interpret this post as criticism, simply view it as my way of contributing to the greater good. In order to actively engage with a problem in a constructive and meaningful way it is always necessary to highlight the existence of the problem first.

This isn't always gentle or pretty as a perfect pink petal, but it is a vital part of the process that leads to change. Trying to formulate a helpful solution without grabbing the problem by the scruff of the neck and pulling it into the light of day is putting the cart before the horse. To address a problem you have to recognise a problem, otherwise it just gets swept under the rug and nothing ever gets done.

Perhaps you could post the book to our recruitment team ahead of their next meeting. Anything is worth a try at this point, even literary snake oil.

Upskilling your abilities and skills is a covert way of an employer telling you that you’re not good enough?

Hope you don’t lead anything but a dog....

[dsr]

The simple act of giving you the book is their polite way of telling you that they don't think you are good enough and you need to make changes to improve yourself in their eyes.

The worst thing that giving the book suggests is that the receiver is not perfect. "You can do better" and "You aren't good enough" aren't the same.

[dsr]

The quicker you realise where the fault lies, the quicker you can fix it.

So first you fix the fault, then you find out whether there ever was a fault?

[Paul Waine]

I'm sorry for being pedantic, but doesn't the act of giving you the book automatically invalidate its contents?

Giving someone a book about changing the way they work implies that they need to change how they work, which is a form of direct criticism. The person who gave you the book is highlighting what they perceive to be an inadequacy or failing on your part and they are blaming you for it.

The simple act of giving you the book is their polite way of telling you that they don't think you are good enough and you need to make changes to improve yourself in their eyes.

If the principles in the book had any validity your personal accountability would have given rise to a surging need to find a soothing balm for your social and organisational apprehensions, without being directly provoked into thinking about it by an external oppressor.

Don't interpret this post as criticism, simply view it as my way of contributing to the greater good. In order to actively engage with a problem in a constructive and meaningful way it is always necessary to highlight the existence of the problem first.

This isn't always gentle or pretty as a perfect pink petal, but it is a vital part of the process that leads to change. Trying to formulate a helpful solution without grabbing the problem by the scruff of the neck and pulling it into the light of day is putting the cart before the horse. To address a problem you have to recognise a problem, otherwise it just gets swept under the rug and nothing ever gets done.

Perhaps you could post the book to our recruitment team ahead of their next meeting. Anything is worth a try at this point, even literary snake oil.

Hi LTL, I love it. Great post. Yes, I would be thinking that someone was trying to tell me something - and who knows, maybe they are right - except that more than a 100 copies have been distributed widely to all the managers in our organisation, from the team at the top to an "old guy like me" with my eye on my retirement date rather than the next step on the career ladder.

I'm not too concerned for the need of the book at Burnley FC. I have the feeling that Sean and the Board have got all these worked out already - how else are Burnley back in the Premier League after a gap of 35 seasons or so.

I'll let the posters who think there may be something that needs fixing at the club to make their own minds up about the books that they may want to read themselves.

[Dark Cloud]

When my kids were small, they spent autumns looking through the Argos catalogue and folding down the corners of pages with the toys they wanted.
By December 1 pretty much EVERY page corner in the toys section was turned down.
When my daughter's17th b/day was approaching, she reminded us daily that all her friends' parents bought them new cars for their 17th b/days!
My wife and I - as the adults responsible for family matters (including, but not limited to, financial matters)- in each case had to make solid, sustainable (good) decisions on what could - realistically - be delivered. Much to the disappointment of our children!
Perhaps we should leave the running of the Club to the grown-ups?

I really do absolutely agree Dougall, but the kids can still have an opinion, can't we.

[Marney&Mee]

Kids (and their opinions) should not be seen or heard DC

[Dougall]

I must confess - my daughters are not shy when it comes to sharing their opinions with me !!!!!

[biggles]

it's probably already been said but, for me, the real reason for our success does lie with Sean Dyche.

[Spijed]

The bottom line is that if a team stays up their recruitment has been a success.

If a team gets relegated it isn't.

No team has ever been relegated with good recruitment.

[IAmAClaret]

'Blame' implies something has gone wrong.... has it?

The club certainly won't think so, and I don't either.

If Sean can be blamed for anything, it would be the fact he has been so successful that we had to do thursday/sunday, which spoilt my Saturday routine.

[Down_Rover]

All the whiners on here might as well pack in now. If you think things are bad at the club then how will you feel WHEN we get relegated

Enjoy supporting a team that has spent 4 out of 5 years in the prem or you will never enjoy your life

Get real. This is as good as it gets for a club like ours and the next 85 teams outside the top 7

[willsclarets]

It's incredible to think where we are. My first game was a 2-1 win against Maidstone United in the old 4th division. Never in my wildest dreams would I think I'd be pi**ed off at taking a point from Old Trafford like I was in the week. It really does seem sometimes like the better we get the more criticism is flung at the club. What do you want, realistically?

I think we're in a transitional phase as a club, where the journey was more enjoyable than the goal. In a sense we've achieved what is possible, which mentally is difficult to get your head around. It's created a bit of frustration and apathy, which is understandable to a point. But only if you don't pinch yourself and remember how fantastic it is we are where we are.

[gawthorpe_view]

I like Sean Dyche.

[Vino blanco]

So do I. Possibly, the best manager the club has ever had. If Carlsberg did football managers.....

[BennyD]

What's a typical snowflake reaction?

I like snowflakes, they are beautiful. Is it supposed to be an insult?

Obviously, it’s not an insult to you.

[Paul Waine]

Have we worked out, now, who is "to blame" for adding Peter Crouch to our squad?

Well done, Peter. A great start to your cameo at Turf Moor.

Well done Sean Dyche and team for getting Peter Crouch into the squad.

Well done, Mike G and the Board for authorising this good footballing decision and good piece of transfer business.

UTC