Emiliano Sala - football agents

[Rileybobs]

I just wonder whether Cardiff are stalling because they see a potential get out by suing whoever set up the flight. According to the report in the Mail they offered Sala a ticket on a commercial flight, but someone else (McKay?) got him the seat the ill fated plane. Cardiff might claim they would never have sanctioned that.

Surely Sala didn’t need Cardiff to sanction his private travel plans. I fail to see how Cardiff have any case here and it seems like they should be paying up. That said, the solicitor’s request for payment could probably have waited a couple of weeks.

[Rick_Muller]

It's Nantes who want the money, nothing to do with agents.

They sold a player in good faith for £18 million.

Not a slight at you Spijed, but it brings it home to me that football is essentially modern slavery isn’t it? “They sold a player for £18m”

It’s a sad situation, and people have died.

[South West Claret.]

It's Nantes who want the money, nothing to do with agents.

They sold a player in good faith for £18 million.

I wasn’t referring to that particular event Spi.

[South West Claret.]

I totally agree - let's organise a mass stampling on football agents.

Correction Pim, it’s not stampling it’s stamping.

[Dark Cloud]

Surely Sala didn’t need Cardiff to sanction his private travel plans. I fail to see how Cardiff have any case here and it seems like they should be paying up. That said, the solicitor’s request for payment could probably have waited a couple of weeks.

I do agree Nantes seem pretty heartless right now, but then again the chairman runs a penis enlargement company apparently so nuff said maybe!
I also agree Cardiff might struggle to make a case re the travel arrangements or how would any club go on when any player made personal travel arrangements? But lawyers being lawyers I definitely wondered whether someone might put a case forward that Cardiff had put him on a commercial flight and someone else changed it for a dodgy bi plane.

[Spijed]

Not a slight at you Spijed, but it brings it home to me that football is essentially modern slavery isn’t it? “They sold a player for £18m”

It’s a sad situation, and people have died.

It is, but we all partake in it by the tribal nature of sport. The argument of modern slavery can be offset by the huge amounts of money players get paid for being said slaves.

[theroyaldyche]

They need to pay up

[tim_noone]

I do agree Nantes seem pretty heartless right now, but then again the chairman runs a penis enlargement company apparently so nuff said maybe!
I also agree Cardiff might struggle to make a case re the travel arrangements or how would any club go on when any player made personal travel arrangements? But lawyers being lawyers I definitely wondered whether someone might put a case forward that Cardiff had put him on a commercial flight and someone else changed it for a dodgy bi plane.

Always wondered why Nantes players played in joggers.....

[dsr]

I don't see what Cardiff's issue is. They presumably had the funding in place to pay Nantes and to pay Sala's contract, and they haven't spent it on anyone else and they can't spend it until June, so they might as well pay up. Unless they somehow feel Nantes were to blame?

As for sueing, they have two problems. One is, even if negligence is taken as read, to prove that they were closely enough connected to Sala that the negligent party owed a duty of care to Cardiff FC; the other is to find someone to sue who has £15m in assets or in public liability insurance. If the commercial pilot was acting beyond the terms of his licence, I doubt his insurance company would pay up; and I find it hard to believe that the agent who arranged the flight would be considered negligent for not reading the small print of the pilot's licence. But in the law, who knows?

Either way, Cardiff have no excuse not to pay. It's very sad that a young man has died, but on a personal level it would be just as sad if the 28 year old who served in the canteen died suddenly; possibly even sadder, because they would know him better. But sadness doesn't excuse not paying your debts.

Maybe it's just an overblown story and they would have paid up within the week anyway.

[thatdberight]

I just wonder whether Cardiff are stalling because they see a potential get out by suing whoever set up the flight. According to the report in the Mail they offered Sala a ticket on a commercial flight, but someone else (McKay?) got him the seat the ill fated plane. Cardiff might claim they would never have sanctioned that.

Sala's choice. Unless they're going to sue his estate. That would look good.

[duncandisorderly]

Are players 'people' or are they 'assets'? If they are one thing then that's different from the other. As an asset then Sala might as well be a TV, or cooker, or car.....as awful as it sounds.
Obviously I know Emliano Sala is a person, but from an accountants POV, he becomes an entry on the balance sheet. It's like non delivery of an item, or the item has arrived damaged or faulty.

But I don't know how football accountancy works. I presume players are assets rather than staff?

[dsr]

Are players 'people' or are they 'assets'? If they are one thing then that's different from the other. As an asset then Sala might as well be a TV, or cooker, or car.....as awful as it sounds.
Obviously I know Emliano Sala is a person, but from an accountants POV, he becomes an entry on the balance sheet. It's like non delivery of an item, or the item has arrived damaged or faulty.

But I don't know how football accountancy works. I presume players are assets rather than staff?

Players aren't assets. The club owns the rights to a player's football career, if you like; they don't own the player. If (say) Harry Kane says to Tottenham that he is sick of the game is is never going to play again, they can't make him, because he isn't a slave; but they have paid the contract rights to his football career, so they can stop him playing for anyone else.

[duncandisorderly]

So they must be employees then?

edit due to lack of time;


Using Harry Kane as an example, albeit extreme....Could Harry Kane resign? If so, what happens then?

[aggi]

So they must be employees then?

edit due to lack of time;


Using Harry Kane as an example, albeit extreme....Could Harry Kane resign? If so, what happens then?

They're employees.

The asset is the contract to play football and the player registration.

If Kane resigned he'd presumably be sued for breach of contract. That wouldn't necessarily be his salary value or whatever. It could end up being the cost to Spurs to replace him or the loss that Spurs have suffered by him not being available (e.g. Champions League income, shirt revenue).

[duncandisorderly]

So, as horrible as this is, what is the proper financial consideration here? I presume Cardiff should pay Nantes the full transfer fee? And then what?
Someone in the paper over the weekend said this will cost Cardiff 30,000,000 without him ever playing for them.

[dsr]

They're employees.

The asset is the contract to play football and the player registration.

If Kane resigned he'd presumably be sued for breach of contract. That wouldn't necessarily be his salary value or whatever. It could end up being the cost to Spurs to replace him or the loss that Spurs have suffered by him not being available (e.g. Champions League income, shirt revenue).

They wouldn't get anything off the retired player apart from payments for services not yet rendered - eg. the portion of a signing on fee that relates to contracts not yet fulfilled. Contracts of personal service aren't enforceable, and the retired player wouldn't be liable for the cost of his replacement.

Spurs could stop him playing for anyone else, but they couldn't make him play for them and they couldn't get compensation for the unused part of the contract. (Though if he has an overseas "image rights" company, that could be different.)

[thatdberight]

So, as horrible as this is, what is the proper financial consideration here? I presume Cardiff should pay Nantes the full transfer fee? And then what?
Someone in the paper over the weekend said this will cost Cardiff 30,000,000 without him ever playing for them.

Probably £15m net of the insurance on Sala's value. That's the risk you take when you collude in the practices that supposedly mean the transactional one-off costs on a £15m asset are ... £15m...

[Dark Cloud]

Is it possible that Cardiff could sue Mckay (or whoever) if proved that he KNOWINGLY put Sala on a plane that either wasn't air worthy, was not flying a safe distance or on a safe route for that type of aircraft or even had a pilot who shouldn't have been flying it? That wouldn't have been Sal's fault as he wouldn't have known.

[dsr]

So, as horrible as this is, what is the proper financial consideration here? I presume Cardiff should pay Nantes the full transfer fee? And then what?
Someone in the paper over the weekend said this will cost Cardiff 30,000,000 without him ever playing for them.

As far as the financial implications re. Nantes and the transfer fee go - remembering that the personal implications are huge, but are barely relevant to the finances - I don't think there is any difference here to if the man suffered a career-ending injury in his first training session.

As for what they pay to Sala's family, that depends on the contract. If the player had suffered a career-ending injury while playing for the club, then he would be paid for the whole of his contract. I suspect that if he died during a match, there would be a clause in his contract meaning his family were paid up for the whole contract. But if his life-ending accident was not on the club's service and was as a result of his own decisions, then Cardiff might not have to pay. Far too many unknowns.

[Pimlico_Claret]

Aah... The Beautiful Game.

[aggi]

They wouldn't get anything off the retired player apart from payments for services not yet rendered - eg. the portion of a signing on fee that relates to contracts not yet fulfilled. Contracts of personal service aren't enforceable, and the retired player wouldn't be liable for the cost of his replacement.

Spurs could stop him playing for anyone else, but they couldn't make him play for them and they couldn't get compensation for the unused part of the contract. (Though if he has an overseas "image rights" company, that could be different.)

I'm not entirely sure what the position would be. An employer can sue an employee for the cost of their replacement if they don't fulfill their notice period (e.g. if they had to bring in a contractor to replace them) but how that translates to an industry where you have to buy them I'm not sure.

[icu81b4]

I reckon this will make an impact on future contracts for all clubs that stipulate that players must turn up for the first day of work fit and able.

..... Wasn't there some contractual complications when Ings got injured when he first went to Liverpool, which then affected the payments due to BFC?.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

So, as horrible as this is, what is the proper financial consideration here? I presume Cardiff should pay Nantes the full transfer fee? And then what?
Someone in the paper over the weekend said this will cost Cardiff 30,000,000 without him ever playing for them.

Half of that is meant to be made up of various agents fees and a signing on fee I think.

When you see the loudmouths on here demanding the club spend X amount on a transfer fee, it's fairly nailed on they aren't thinking about, or interested in, the agents fees.

[thatdberight]

I reckon this will make an impact on future contracts for all clubs that stipulate that players must turn up for the first day of work fit and able.

And how would that help? You think the selling club is going to retain the risk in a player who they have no relationship with and control over? Why?

[icu81b4]

And how would that help? You think the selling club is going to retain the risk in a player who they have no relationship with and control over? Why?

Well that's a good point, but I wouldn't be surprised if the legal eagles will reverse that and possibly have a clause that won't accept a potential risk until they have to, although to counter my own argument I guess that's what fitness tests are for prior to signing a player.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

The body recovered from the plane has been confirmed as Sala's.

[THEWELLERNUT70]

https://www.fotmob.com/news/world/1mio1 ... ce+confirm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CombatClaret]

I reckon this will make an impact on future contracts for all clubs that stipulate that players must turn up for the first day of work fit and able.
..... Wasn't there some contractual complications when Ings got injured when he first went to Liverpool, which then affected the payments due to BFC?.

This is why there are always 'act of god' or 'extraordinary circumstances' clauses in most contracts signed or baked into the T&Cs of purchases.

[conyoviejo]

R.I.P. Emiliano Sala..

[ClaretTony]

Was always going to be sad news whether it was Emiliano Sala or David Ibbotson who had been found.

[CombatClaret]

Sad news, confirming what most already assumed.

I'm sure I'll get flack for this but the BBC news at midnight stated the body of 'Premier League Football Player" had been recovered.

A Cardiff city player yes from the moment of signing but can he be called such?
In the same way McNiel whilst being with us was not a Premier League player until he stepped on the pitch.

[Dyched]

Sad news, confirming what most already assumed.

I'm sure I'll get flack for this but the BBC news at midnight stated the body of 'Premier League Football Player" had been recovered.

A Cardiff city player yes from the moment of signing but can he be called such?
In the same way McNiel whilst being with us was not a Premier League player until he stepped on the pitch.

I get what you’re saying. But he was a Premier League player. He signed I presume by Cardiff to play in the Premier League and not the reserves.

Anyway, hope David Ibbotson‘s body is recovered so his family can get closure.

RIP Emiliano

7C357846-8AA0-4DF2-9A59-333C33427FA6.jpeg (82.85 KiB) Viewed 2283 times

[CombatClaret]

I get what you’re saying. But he was a Premier League player. He signed I presume by Cardiff to play in the Premier League and not the reserves.

But he never made it, I know it's a real 8sshat point to make.
The Apollo 1 astronauts signed on to go to the moon but bless their souls them never made it it.
You can call them NASA astronauts but can't say they walked on the moon.
I know in human terms it makes little difference to this tragedy but I dislike misreporting.
I feel slightly uncomfortable how large this story has become simply because of a football connection when other deaths go so overlooked or make page 12.

[claptrappers_union]

The fact he was a footballer makes it newsworthy, you’re right, that’s why it’s interesting. If it was some rich couple from Portsmouth the angle of the story would’ve been the location of the crash. If it was a French couple from Nantes, it may make mainstream news because they were flying to Cardiff.

It’s fair reporting, for the context of the article, most people reading the article wont know who Sala is. He was contracted to a Premier League football team.

If Josh Benson (he was named on the bench for us again Man Utd) robbed a bank, the Headline would be ‘Premier League Footballer Robs Bank’

If Wayne Rooney robbed a bank it’ll be ‘Wayne Rooney robs bank’ and would be continuous rolling news nationwide and in America.

If Jordan Rhodes robbed a bank it’ll be ‘International footballer robs bank’

If was an average player from Walsall - ‘Professional footballer robs bank’

If it was a player from Padiham FC - ‘Footballer robs bank’

Diego Penny - Former Premier League goalkeeper robs bank

[TheFamilyCat]

Diego Penny - Former Premier League goalkeeper robs bank

Premier League goalkeeper attempts to rob bank but drops the bag of cash on he way out while onlookers shout “BEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSST!”

[Hipper]

Is it possible that Cardiff could sue Mckay (or whoever) if proved that he KNOWINGLY put Sala on a plane that either wasn't air worthy, was not flying a safe distance or on a safe route for that type of aircraft or even had a pilot who shouldn't have been flying it? That wouldn't have been Sal's fault as he wouldn't have known.

Ultimately the pilot is responsible for the flight. He decides the flight plan and makes judgements as to whether he has the abilities, and his aircraft and conditions are suitable, to carry out the flight safely. Basically a risk assessment. If the pilot thinks the risks are too great he should say 'no'. It is true that he will be under various pressures to say 'yes' - time deadlines, money matters, prestige etc., but it is still in the end his responsibility, no-one else's.

In accounting, players (or to be exact player registrations) are considered assets. You can see this in the accounts where it says 'Depreciation and amortisation of player registrations'.

Regarding insurance, we had a case in the John Bond era of Kevin Reeves. He suffered a career ending injury and we got an insurance payout as a result. I believe it covered the payment of the completion of Reeve's contract and he remained at the club in a coaching role.

[JTClaret]

It sounds awful - But I do see players as people who have chosen to be assets.
Their is no way somebody would be considered to be worth £15m if they were just an everyday man on the street - Take soldiers for an example.

As such, at some point both clubs have to look at the 'Not received what they paid for' and 'Not been paid for what they sold' aspect.
It's sad, and pretty heartless. But when you are talking about the £15m, imo the human aspect of the situation has already been lost before the tragedy.

[Blackrod]

McKay issued with a harassment warning by Police for threatening to ‘burn’ Cardiff City and ‘kill everyone there’. Source : Daily Telegraph